S25: Philippines

[Whimsy]

Here is your Survivor S25 topic.

[Runningwild]

I am currently rewatching this season on Amazon. Love me some Penner. And it's actually pretty interesting to know who the winner is and watch their edit. 

[Silver Raven]

Mike Skupin sentenced to prison for possession of child pornography and running a Ponzi scheme.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/ex-survivor-contestant-michael-skupin-to-be-sentenced

[whiitter]

On 12/27/2016 at 0:55 PM, Silver Raven said:

Mike Skupin sentenced to prison for possession of child pornography and running a Ponzi scheme.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/ex-survivor-contestant-michael-skupin-to-be-sentenced

woah i had no fucking idea about this

[healthnut]

I came here to comment on this season after finishing it yesterday and I had no idea about the Skupin stuff, YIKES! I wonder if he was taking the fall for one of his kids, anyway...awful.

The season, however, I really enjoyed. This is the only season I have watched during my recent past season binges that I did not know who won, which made the season even more fun. I actually wasn't sure who was going to win after the FTC because Denise came off looking awful, Skupin looked like a moron, and I thought Lisa did the best. LOVED Penner's FTC speech and Jeff's question to Skupin was awesome, too.

[Lamb18]

I'm watching this season - the first full season of Survivor I ever watched, so the first season I'm rewatching. Although it wasn't obvious Denise was going to win, you could see the "winners edit" early on, I believe, in the first or second episode. Roxie is praying out loud, then speaking in tongues. Denise says something about it's OK to pray to God, but if she's going to win, she has to depend on herself. She has to dig deep and do what it takes. I think Malcolm got the decoy winners edit.

I'd forgotten how awful Abi is. Such gratuitous spite toward poor RC who did nothing to deserve it. She's the type of person who likes to find a vulnerable spot, put a knife in it and twist it around a bit. Pete is a massive jerk, too. I guess I don't like spiteful play which those two had going for RC. 

Skupin is a poster child for first aid supplies. Always hurting himself. He even broke the swim goggles and cut up his face diving into the water. He's lucky he didn't get bad infections especially after that mud challenge where everybody was locked into position, holding a giant ball still for over an hour.

After watching Jeff all these seasons, I like him pretty well, but he really showed his kind heart in how he treated Dana just before she left the show. He was kind and gentle with her; he could tell she was suffering and not just wanting to leave because things were difficult.

I remember that in TWOP there were a bunch of comments about Carter but I can't remember why. He does have a lifeless communication style.

[Star Aristille]

10 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Although it wasn't obvious Denise was going to win, you could see the "winners edit" early on, I believe, in the first or second episode. Roxie is praying out loud, then speaking in tongues. Denise says something about it's OK to pray to God, but if she's going to win, she has to depend on herself. She has to dig deep and do what it takes.

I remember seeing that moment and said a big "Aha!" when she said that.  That was the instant I knew that she was going to win.  It was also the moment I fell in love with her, as I was finally watching someone who just got that God doesn't care who wins a reality show.

I had been spoiled on the F3 of this season since well before it started, and I'd heard that Skupin had won instead.  But between him getting next to no camera time between the end of the first episode and the merge episode and Denise having that moment you mentioned above, I knew that that wasn't going to turn out to be true and that Denise would likely take it.

[Lamb18]

I'm up to the Artis boot now. I remember what it was about Carter. The episode of Jeff's boot, Jeff goes up to Carter and asks what the plan is. Carter says, "I thought the plan was to vote you out." (Foreshadowing of Keith.) Abi got a little more bearable once RC (her spite target) was voted out. She does do the cooking around camp - they show her fixing rice and getting mad at Skupin because he kept on eating rice dry and they were close to running out. Jeff just ripped her at tribal council. He asked Lisa how it was for after they returned from the previous tribal, where Lisa had attempted a big move to save Skupin and protect her alliance.  She said how nice it was to be treated with grace, etc. Jeff asks another question. Lisa replies that it was her "enemies" who treated her with grace while her own alliance did not. Abi says to Lisa, "Did I treat you with grace?" Lisa, "No," no doubt recalling how earlier Abi had given Lisa a big lecture listing her flaws and weaknesses, how she should play the game, etc., etc., needs more experience, etc., etc.,  just the thing a 49-year old woman likes to hear from someone half her age. It's fun watching Penner scramble, Penner just sits there and I think about his child porn collection (gross) as he talks about having 7 children.

Denise and Chrissy are about the same age and it's interesting to think about how they play the game differently. Both are intelligent professional women, Denise is better athletically and her social game is pretty good, too.

[cherrypj]

1 hour ago, Lamb18 said:

It's fun watching Penner scramble, Penner just sits there and I think about his child porn collection (gross) as he talks about having 7 children.

It was Skupin.

[Lamb18]

You're right, I was thinking Skupin but wrote Penner.

[Lamb18]

Just watching final tribal and Skupin says he tells his family, " Do you want to watch the news or do you want to be on the news?" (Meaning he's a person who makes things happen, not just watches things happens.)

[SVNBob]

2 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Just watching final tribal and Skupin says he tells his family, " Do you want to watch the news or do you want to be on the news?"

Given later events, I think they'd answer "Watch."

[ljenkins782]

On 12/4/2017 at 1:04 AM, SVNBob said:

Quote

Just watching final tribal and Skupin says he tells his family, " Do you want to watch the news or do you want to be on the news?"

Given later events, I think they'd answer "Watch."

It's very tough to watch this season back with the lens of who Skupin really is. He seemed like a rather dim-witted, yet ultimately harmless doofus, but not so. 

Quote

Denise and Chrissy are about the same age and it's interesting to think about how they play the game differently. Both are intelligent professional women, Denise is better athletically and her social game is pretty good, too.

Denise just seems so...competent. That's the only word that springs to mind, she's the kind of person that gives off the vibe that they'd never put a foot wrong in life. Personally, I'm a little intimidated by people like that, but given her company in the final 3, she had it locked down. Skupin was never going to be a threat and Lisa's approach was a little less confident. And though those straw polls at the reunion aren't necessarily reflective of how a vote would have gone in the moment of the FTC, the poll did indicate that she would have beaten Malcolm as well, which of course seemed to shock Probst.

Chrissy's not as mentally tough as Denise, as evidenced by her little pity party in this last episode when she, Ryan, and JP got flipped on. 

Quote

I'm up to the Artis boot now. I remember what it was about Carter. The episode of Jeff's boot, Jeff goes up to Carter and asks what the plan is. Carter says, "I thought the plan was to vote you out." (Foreshadowing of Keith.) Abi got a little more bearable once RC (her spite target) was voted out. 

Lol, I laughed my ass off at Carter's foot-in-mouth moment. He always had that slack-jawed, flat affect vibe anyway, but that moment was especially stupid. Perhaps that's why they kept him so long, what a useful source of information if your opponent can't lie or think on his feet. 

Abi did get slightly more bearable for a little while after RC was gone (God, those episodes were uncomfortable to watch and I say that as someone who was no fan of RC's), but not by much. I'd forgotten just how irrational and unpleasant she was until I rewatched this season recently. So completely lacking in self-awareness and communication skills. 

It is kinda funny to watch the first episode back and watch RC's breathless excitement over her new alliance with Abi, based solely on the "we're the young, hot ones" basis. It's like watching 2 drunk girls in the bathroom line at a club who decide they are totally BFFs based on no information at all. It's satisfying to know that "the older lady" that they had no use for (Lisa) outlasted them all. 

[cherrypj]

On 12/5/2017 at 3:47 PM, ljenkins782 said:

Lol, I laughed my ass off at Carter's foot-in-mouth moment. He always had that slack-jawed, flat affect vibe anyway, but that moment was especially stupid. Perhaps that's why they kept him so long, what a useful source of information if your opponent can't lie or think on his feet. 

During Katie's boot episode, after Carter and Jeff had discussed blindsiding Penner, Penner asked Carter what the plan was.

Carter's response: "The choice is between Katie and Penner." Cut to Jeff looking like he's swallowed his own asshole. Carter corrects himself and says, "Katie or Denise."

Penner didn't react at all. !! Wonder if he heard.

I knew I didn't like Abi. 

Denise, I think, had the perfect job for Survivor. Not the sex part, the therapist part. She could listen without judgment; she could talk without being condescending; she could emphasize and seem to agree. Just well done, socially.

[Hera]

On 4/3/2018 at 11:26 AM, cherrypj said:

Denise, I think, had the perfect job for Survivor. Not the sex part, the therapist part. She could listen without judgment; she could talk without being condescending; she could emphasize and seem to agree. Just well done, socially.

I agree. Denise also had to go to (and survive) every single tribal council that season.

On 12/5/2017 at 3:47 PM, ljenkins782 said:

It's very tough to watch this season back with the lens of who Skupin really is. He seemed like a rather dim-witted, yet ultimately harmless doofus, but not so. 

I remember RC was really close to him in the game, and said he reminded her of her dad. It's probably just as well she didn't participate in Second Chances (she didn't want to play with Abi Maria again—it's hard to blame her for that), since it aired right before Skupin's arrest, and she might have been asked about it.

[cherrypj]

For me, Lisa is absolutely the star of this season. (Perhaps I'm easily manipulated.)

Apropos of my comments to come, I just read this article: I am a MasterChef Survivor. I, of course, don't know how much is true. IF it is true, and for a show that's nominally heart-warming with supportive contestants (I've only seen MasterChef Canada, which may or may not be representative), then I can totally relate to crying on Survivor. I don't have an issue with Lisa's crying, which doesn't seem all that excessive. 

That said, Penner is my favorite. He's rational, doesn't lash out (except at Jeffy), and knows the game for what it is. Two extraordinary moments:

1. His breaking the fourth wall to Lisa: "What kind of story do you want them to tell?" Loved that.
2. His speech to Lisa in Little Miss Perfect, the 9th episode. I rewatched his speech and Lisa's subsequent talking head over and over. I liked it so much, that I'm transcribing it here. (God bless people who transcribe for a living.)

Quote

Penner: Why did you think people wouldn't like you this morning? Because you didn't do something that was pleasing to them? You didn't try to please them? 
Lisa: Because I used them and betrayed them.
P: Did you? You explained yourself beautifully last night. It was a big, bold set of moves. Maybe unprecedented in the history of Survivor, but you were really trying to work for your alliance, weren't you?  
L: (Nods)
P: Okay. Who the hell can argue with that? You know, I certainly admire you, like you, and maybe even coming to love you. You know, I mean, that's God's honest truth. We'll talk about some of the--your history, and your childhood, and how that would be a very big part of the makeup and psychology of someone who had the life that you've had, being a pleasure, being--of "Am I okay? Did you like that? Was that good?" I know exactly how one look from the wrong person saying, "You're going to go out looking like that? You put on a couple of pounds." 
L: Oh, my gosh, stop. You're killing me.
P: A person in your position. Devastating. And so you had to be a pleaser. "I'm gonna pay for my family's whatever. I'm the breadwinner. I've got these responsibilities. Do you like me? Am I beautiful enough. Am I pretty enough? Am I staying pretty? Am I funny enough?" I mean ... 
L: How do you know? 
P: That's my business, too. 
L (talking head): I know that Penner is always scrambling for a way to stay, but he really struck something very, very deep, this internal conflict. I think probably at some level, it's spending a lifetime performing, tap dancing, acting, doing whatever it takes to do the right thing, to be liked. 
P: And you are maybe only now really getting to deal with ... how ... the toll ... the cost ... of that extraordinary youth that you had. It did cost you something. You lost something. And I love you. 
L (talking head): My whole life has been based on public perception. You be, I've lived on my life on the same since I was seven years old. And even before then, learned to get love by performing and being good and likable. So this is a whole lifetime of pleasing others.
P: I didn't mean to make you cry.
L: No, it's just to be understood. And you help me understand myself. I really appreciate it.
L (talking head): If I do the wrong thing, will I still be okay? If I am not liked or if I'm judged, will that be OK? Can I survive not being, you know, little Miss Perfect? 

Now, reading these words on a screen: it sure feels manipulative, right? But watching it, man. I love Penner for talking to Lisa, Lisa for being on the show, and the editors for keeping that moment in. Just outstanding. One of my favorite moments in all 36 seasons. 

Then Lisa had to ruin it by still voting for Penner that night! Hah!

[fishcakes]

55 minutes ago, cherrypj said:

Now, reading these words on a screen: it sure feels manipulative, right?

I'd have to see it again, but I remember watching it the first time and seeing it play out, it seemed really manipulative. The key moment for me was this:

Quote

L: How do you know? 
P: That's my business, too. 

Because there's something about Penner's response that the transcript can't capture. It's a pause or the way his voice changes, but his mask drops for a second and you can see that he was pissed that she didn't know he was also an actor (and writer/producer/director/whatever). And really there's no reason she should. He only had a couple of credits and to this day not much has changed, but he very much had an air of I Can't Believe She Doesn't Know Who I Am! if only for a few seconds.

I don't blame Lisa for voting him out. She tried to form an alliance with him and he pretty much said, "let me see if I can get a better offer from someone else first." He was probably overcorrecting there for his (unearned, IMO) reputation for being shady and dishonest, but it was most definitely his blunder. I know Penner is a fan favorite, but he's always seemed like a bitter person to me and that was cemented at this season's FTC when he outed Lisa's past and said Denise was bitchy or a bitch or tried to be a bitch or ... something. I don't think he flat out called her a bitch, but he was still pretty harsh. I wasn't even a Denise fan, but I was taken aback at how angry he seemed. I can't remember what he said to Skupin, but I hope he was at least as hard on him as he was with the women.

Speaking of being hard on Skupin, now I want to rewatch just so I can see Artis give him those hilarious Death Stares all the time.

Edited April 7, 2018 by fishcakes

[cherrypj]

2 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Because there's something about Penner's response that the transcript can't capture

You know: I definitely miss those voice changes. I never watch with the sound on. I probably leave a lot of information on the table that way. Oh well. Penner definitely got a bit bug-eyed, and cocked his head: "That's ... my business too." He kept listening as the voiceover cut away to Lisa's talking head.

2 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I don't blame Lisa for voting him out. She tried to form an alliance with him and he pretty much said, "let me see if I can get a better offer from someone else first." He was probably overcorrecting there for his (unearned, IMO) reputation for being shady and dishonest, but it was most definitely his blunder.

For sure! But that was the next episode. 

I've not watched the finale yet. I'll get there, and might just revise my opinion of Penner. 

[Hera]

Penner was interesting to watch this season. He was really into bean-counting. I seem to remember he made a lot of proclamations along the lines of, "I don't owe anyone anything, because my old allies stabbed me in the back." I think @fishcakes is right that he was overcorrecting for being seen as shady and dishonest, and I'm not sure any of it was necessary. I don't think refusing Lisa's final three (or four, or whatever) deal was part of that overcorrection, however. I read it as condescension. To me, Penner was taking the attitude of, "I'm the veteran player here, and I do not give you permission to have a final X alliance at this point in the game," as though he had the power to dictate that.

[Lamb18]

On ‎4‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 8:58 AM, fishcakes said:

I know Penner is a fan favorite, but he's always seemed like a bitter person to me and that was cemented at this season's FTC when he outed Lisa's past and said Denise was bitchy or a bitch or tried to be a bitch or ... something. I don't think he flat out called her a bitch, but he was still pretty harsh. I wasn't even a Denise fan, but I was taken aback at how angry he seemed. I can't remember what he said to Skupin, but I hope he was at least as hard on him as he was with the women.

He flat out called Denise a bitch. I rewatched the season a few months ago and it surprised me again because there didn't seem to be any reason for him to do that.  The first time I watched that final tribal, I thought maybe he was trying to gain her sympathy votes by being nasty to her but the second time I watched, I don't really think so.

[ljenkins782]

On 4/7/2018 at 9:04 AM, cherrypj said:

For me, Lisa is absolutely the star of this season. (Perhaps I'm easily manipulated.)

Apropos of my comments to come, I just read this article: I am a MasterChef Survivor. I, of course, don't know how much is true. IF it is true, and for a show that's nominally heart-warming with supportive contestants (I've only seen MasterChef Canada, which may or may not be representative), then I can totally relate to crying on Survivor. I don't have an issue with Lisa's crying, which doesn't seem all that excessive. 

That said, Penner is my favorite. He's rational, doesn't lash out (except at Jeffy), and knows the game for what it is. Two extraordinary moments:

1. His breaking the fourth wall to Lisa: "What kind of story do you want them to tell?" Loved that.
2. His speech to Lisa in Little Miss Perfect, the 9th episode. I rewatched his speech and Lisa's subsequent talking head over and over. I liked it so much, that I'm transcribing it here. (God bless people who transcribe for a living.)

Now, reading these words on a screen: it sure feels manipulative, right? But watching it, man. I love Penner for talking to Lisa, Lisa for being on the show, and the editors for keeping that moment in. Just outstanding. One of my favorite moments in all 36 seasons. 

Then Lisa had to ruin it by still voting for Penner that night! Hah!

I loved that speech AND found it completely manipulative at the same time. It was beautifully stated and I can see why it hit Lisa hard and probably felt good to address all the feelings that she was having, but I also like that she still voted him out.

Had the roles been reversed, he would have done the same.

Quote

 

Quote

I know Penner is a fan favorite, but he's always seemed like a bitter person to me and that was cemented at this season's FTC when he outed Lisa's past and said Denise was bitchy or a bitch or tried to be a bitch or ... something. I don't think he flat out called her a bitch, but he was still pretty harsh. I wasn't even a Denise fan, but I was taken aback at how angry he seemed. I can't remember what he said to Skupin, but I hope he was at least as hard on him as he was with the women.

He flat out called Denise a bitch. I rewatched the season a few months ago and it surprised me again because there didn't seem to be any reason for him to do that.  The first time I watched that final tribal, I thought maybe he was trying to gain her sympathy votes by being nasty to her but the second time I watched, I don't really think so.

 

To fishcake's point, I do think bitterness was behind his comments to Denise. His frustration that he couldn't find his way to the end, which I think he always expected he would. 

His refusal to make an F4 deal is baffling. At that point in the game, there were so few players left that he needed as many numbers on his side as possible, why make someone you were close to suspicious of you? 

[cherrypj]

On 4/9/2018 at 8:29 AM, Lamb18 said:

He flat out called Denise a bitch. I rewatched the season a few months ago and it surprised me again because there didn't seem to be any reason for him to do that.  The first time I watched that final tribal, I thought maybe he was trying to gain her sympathy votes by being nasty to her but the second time I watched, I don't really think so.

Not flat out. Penner was "confused" by some of what she said because she told him once she didn't want to be seen as a bitch, but now she's shown the world that side. (Denise's face fell, and I felt so bad for her.) So not flat out, but call a spade a spade: he implied it every way but Sunday. Definitely not a good look for Penner. (And he voted for her!) And I hated, hated that he outed Lisa. What was the point? I'm not sure it changed any votes (no one on that jury would ever admit that they were OK to losing to either Lisa or "Skoopin" (as Carter put it)), but it wasn't for him to tell. His whole speech was him falling victim to his own hype.

God. So disappointed in him. Why was he so angry? His own damn fault.

Still think Abi is a viper. Still love the Penner speech I quoted above. Still love Lisa: she was just outstanding. Malcolm was pretty good too, but he underestimated both Denise and Lisa, to his demerit.

A very good season, and I'm glad I watched. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by cherrypj
A spade is a spade, not a space.

[ljenkins782]

On 4/26/2018 at 6:32 PM, cherrypj said:

Not flat out. Penner was "confused" by some of what she said because she told him once she didn't want to be seen as a bitch, but now she's shown the world that side. (Denise's face fell, and I felt so bad for her.) So not flat out, but call a spade a spade: he implied it every way but Sunday. Definitely not a good look for Penner. (And he voted for her!) And I hated, hated that he outed Lisa. What was the point? I'm not sure it changed any votes (no one on that jury would ever admit that they were OK to losing to either Lisa or "Skoopin" (as Carter put it)), but it wasn't for him to tell. His whole speech was him falling victim to his own hype.

God. So disappointed in him. Why was he so angry? His own damn fault.

Still think Abi is a viper. Still love the Penner speech I quoted above. Still love Lisa: she was just outstanding. Malcolm was pretty good too, but he underestimated both Denise and Lisa, to his demerit.

A very good season, and I'm glad I watched. 

Since I agree that it probably didn't change a single person's mind, I didn't mind that he outed Lisa and it also made perfect sense in the context of how Penner views the game (as both part of it and thinking ahead to how it's going to play to the audience). I think he wanted the big reveal to be part of the "story" of the season, although it certainly would have come out at the reunion anyway, and maybe thought the reaction would be bigger. 

Quote

God. So disappointed in him. Why was he so angry? His own damn fault.

Possibly the fact that it's his own damn fault is why he was so angry. Although I'm not really sure he fully understood what a bonehead move it was to alienate Lisa when she approached him for a go-to-the-end alliance. He has his own set of "rational" moves that are extremely prescriptive and he doesn't know how to deviate from the rules he sets for himself. How he thought the alleged integrity he would have shown by not joining an alliance and backstabbing it later was a higher priority than the immediate threat of being voted out before ever getting to the end is beyond me. 

I recently rewatched the first couple of episodes of Second Chances and Abi's full awfulness is on display there as well. So irrational and unbelievably un-self aware. I can't even imagine dealing with someone who creates drama out of nothing and then pouts about people being mean to her. It's almost surreal to watch. In this season, the contrast between her and Denise is so stark with Denise being so rational and Abi being out in her own alternate universe, it's crazy to watch. 

I've never been a Malcolm fan and I can't entirely put my finger on why. I don't dislike him, I just don't share the golden boy view that so many others have. He definitely underestimated Denise and Lisa (though he may have realized that Denise was a threat, just figured out it out way too late).

[SVNBob]

Rewatched the finale of this season as part of preparations for S40.  Lots of good thoughts in this thread to respond to as a result.

On 12/5/2017 at 2:47 PM, ljenkins782 said:

It's very tough to watch this season back with the lens of who [redacted] really is. He seemed like a rather dim-witted, yet ultimately harmless doofus, but not so. 

[snip]

Denise just seems so...competent. That's the only word that springs to mind, she's the kind of person that gives off the vibe that they'd never put a foot wrong in life. Personally, I'm a little intimidated by people like that, but given her company in the final 3, she had it locked down. [Redacted] was never going to be a threat and Lisa's approach was a little less confident. And though those straw polls at the reunion aren't necessarily reflective of how a vote would have gone in the moment of the FTC, the poll did indicate that she would have beaten Malcolm as well, which of course seemed to shock Probst.

[snip]

It is kinda funny to watch the first episode back and watch RC's breathless excitement over her new alliance with Abi, based solely on the "we're the young, hot ones" basis. It's like watching 2 drunk girls in the bathroom line at a club who decide they are totally BFFs based on no information at all. It's satisfying to know that "the older lady" that they had no use for (Lisa) outlasted them all. 

1: Yeah, that's a thing.  Shortly into the episode recap, around some semi-relevant TH, I paused to bring my mother up to date on [redacted]'s legal issue, as she was unaware.  After restarting the episode, when he next appeared on screen, she commented that she was already looking at him differently.  And that had only been about two minutes.

2: After each of the 3 gave their opening statements at FTC, I asked my mother to just rank the statements, even with us knowing Denise would win.  We agreed that Denise had the strongest remarks, and Lisa the weakest.  Admitting at FTC that you didn't really start playing the game until about half-way through is never good.  [Redacted]'s statements were very middle-of-the-road and old-school Survivor; talking about the Survivor motto, and the target he had to overcome as a returning player.

3: At least RC had the grace and "humility" to turn her lack of "need" for Lisa into saying that she knew Lisa was a smart and sneaky player, and that that was the real reason she wanted to get rid of her.   It was also the justification RC had for voting for Lisa in the end.

 

On 4/7/2018 at 8:58 AM, fishcakes said:

I don't blame Lisa for voting him out. She tried to form an alliance with him and he pretty much said, "let me see if I can get a better offer from someone else first." He was probably overcorrecting there for his (unearned, IMO) reputation for being shady and dishonest, but it was most definitely his blunder. I know Penner is a fan favorite, but he's always seemed like a bitter person to me and that was cemented at this season's FTC when he outed Lisa's past and said Denise was bitchy or a bitch or tried to be a bitch or ... something. I don't think he flat out called her a bitch, but he was still pretty harsh. I wasn't even a Denise fan, but I was taken aback at how angry he seemed. I can't remember what he said to [redacted], but I hope he was at least as hard on him as he was with the women.

Not really.  As I said, [redacted]'s opening statement was about how he came into the game with a target on his back as a returning player (as did the others), so he had to work hard to stay in the game.  Penner correctly pointed out that [redacted] never had his name written down even once during the game, as opposed to Penner's name being written 15 times (a near Survivor record at the time).  Penner then opined that [redacted] might continue that "perfect game" that night.  And if it hadn't been for Carter (the most slack-jawed contestant until the Christy brothers show up in BvW2), that would have been the case.

On 5/21/2018 at 12:21 PM, ljenkins782 said:

Since I agree that it probably didn't change a single person's mind, I didn't mind that he outed Lisa and it also made perfect sense in the context of how Penner views the game (as both part of it and thinking ahead to how it's going to play to the audience). I think he wanted the big reveal to be part of the "story" of the season, although it certainly would have come out at the reunion anyway, and maybe thought the reaction would be bigger.

That's one of the things we talked about regarding Penner.  He's a storyteller and entertainer.  He knows what makes for good TV.  Hence his attacks at all of the F3.  Each one designed to injure, but not hurt overly much.  But none delivered in actual anger.  As compared to the "just restrained" anger that Artis had.

And to be fair, he did ask permission to reveal Lisa's past, and gave her the opportunity to do it herself if she wanted.  She allowed him to have that part of the narrative, instead of controlling it herself.  She did have a decent response though, saying it was just a job she had at a certain age, and asked Penner if he'd revealed what he did for a living at the same age in his life.

But then again, it's not like he was the one to recognize her first.  As far as I remember, it was actually Denise that did, and she was the one that told Penner.

On 11/27/2017 at 7:53 AM, Lamb18 said:

I think Malcolm got the decoy winners edit.

In retrospect, he got the "soon-to-be-returning" player edit.  Since apparently, TPTB decided they wanted him back for the next season about halfway through this one.  And apparently, Peachy went to Malcolm to make the offer on Day 27.  And somehow Malcolm knew that's what the conversation was going to be about before Peachy made the offer.

So his edit was akin to what they did with Hantz for Samoa.  Only Malcolm was actually a decent and likeable person, so they had more "good footage" to work with.

On 4/3/2018 at 10:26 AM, cherrypj said:

Denise, I think, had the perfect job for Survivor. Not the sex part, the therapist part. She could listen without judgment; she could talk without being condescending; she could emphasize and seem to agree. Just well done, socially.

Absolutely.  And that's why it's going to be interesting to watch her play again.  Her strategy is one of the very few that could be implemented exactly as her first game and be just as successful.  The problem is that everyone else knows this time that that's her skill set, and how she can use it against them.

[ljenkins782]

On 1/24/2020 at 3:16 AM, SVNBob said:

That's one of the things we talked about regarding Penner.  He's a storyteller and entertainer.  He knows what makes for good TV.  Hence his attacks at all of the F3.  Each one designed to injure, but not hurt overly much.  But none delivered in actual anger.  As compared to the "just restrained" anger that Artis had.

And to be fair, he did ask permission to reveal Lisa's past, and gave her the opportunity to do it herself if she wanted.  She allowed him to have that part of the narrative, instead of controlling it herself.  She did have a decent response though, saying it was just a job she had at a certain age, and asked Penner if he'd revealed what he did for a living at the same age in his life.

I just rewatched this season recently, I really enjoyed this one. It was a healthy mix of storylines: the underdog redemption arc of Matsing members, the utter collapse of the dominant alliance of Tandang, plus a good mix of characters (including some odious ones, like Abi). 

The one thing that I do appreciate about Abi as a villain is that I believe she's 100% authentic in her awfulness. It doesn't have the veneer of someone playing to the cameras, that's just how she is and it's authentically infuriating.

But regarding the quoted part, I agree about Penner. He put them through a wringer at FTC because he felt it should be hard but he seemed genuinely proud of the ones who did well/stood up to the questioning. 

Watching it back again, Lisa really did play a good game and could have done even better if people had recognized the move she tried to make against Malcolm. Who's to say how Denise fares without Malcolm. Possibly just fine, but to tear away someone's #1 ally will have some impact.

Where Lisa failed big time was in recognizing the threat of Denise. Her description of Denise not really playing, just "letting Malcolm play for her" was offensive and completely off base. 

Also, Lisa should have stuck to her plan of dragging Abi as a goat. This is where I have to wonder if Penner got to her with the idea of the "story of the season" because he was correct that the audience was salivating for the downfall of the Pete/Abi alliance and rewarding their awfulness with an F3 finish was going to be infuriating. But it's also possible that she just didn't have the votes to keep Abi or she thought she could use Denise as a weapon against Malcolm in the final challenge, but again, that's leaving Denise in the mix to her own detriment.

As for the final vote, I wish they would ask each juror to explain their vote in more detail. Like why Abi not only voted for Denise but claimed she still would have even if Malcolm had been up there. Yes, she loathed Skupin and was mad at Lisa, but she also seemed to really personally hate Denise. I guess maybe Denise had "betrayed" her less than the other 2? Personally, I think her hatred of Denise was just that her tricks didn't work on Denise, she never showed any response to any of Abi's baiting, so perhaps in the end she had to respect that a little, who knows.

Finally, the only regret I have with this season is that there were some interesting minor characters that I would have liked to see more from. Katie/Dawson/Dana seemed like they were having a pretty good time together and just some more around camp footage from that tribe might have been nice. That's the perennial issue with the 3 tribe thing, especially when one is full of huge personalities OR is horribly dysfunctional. For my money, I would have liked far less of Russell Swann shouting his every statement and wildly overestimating his own threat level (if I heard "I was willing to DIE for this game" one more freaking time...) and more of some of the other players.

But overall, a really good season.