S23: South Pacific

[Whimsy]

Here is your Survivor S23 topic.

[KimberStormer]

I was thinking about Ozzy today...My critique of Ozzy in SP has always been that he had the easiest of opportunities to solidify Cochran to the side of Savaii through the simple expedient of giving him the immunity necklace at tribal.  Ozzy then puts his money where his mouth is, so to speak, and takes the very low risk of a rock in order to demonstrate his total loyalty to Cochran and Cochran, sitting pretty with immunity, has no reason to flip.  It seems to me the obvious, perfect solution.

 

BUT!  Today I was thinking.  If you're Ozzy, actually Ozzy, the absolute best at challenges Survivor has ever seen, then do you really want Savaii to win out at the merge?  Or do you actually prefer them to lose, so you can have a majority-Savaii jury, and best them all through physical challenge at Redemption Island, feeding them and treating them nice all the while?  Redemption Island was tailor made for Ozzy, whereas he was never very good at the actual game of Survivor and was only getting worse and less interested in it.  Did he see my idea, and purposely not do it, specifically to get the result which actually happened and which, bar a single, flukey failure at the last puzzle, would have gotten him an absolutely guaranteed million bucks?

 

IS OZZY IN FACT A GREAT, UNORTHODOX SURVIVOR STRATEGIST?

[peachmangosteen]

IS OZZY IN FACT A GREAT, UNORTHODOX SURVIVOR STRATEGIST?

 

It's Ozzy so I doubt it!

[Nashville]

It's Ozzy so I doubt it!

 

What she said.

[Lamb18]

So now I'm watching the first episode of this season. I watched bits and pieces of this one. I remember Cochran (saw him on another season) and Dawn. I don't remember Coach and Ozzie, but when I was watching I had no idea of their history. I remember Brandon Hantz, too.

[Lamb18]

I just watched the reward/immunity challenge where each team had to tear flesh off a roast pig and put it in a basket. I've seen this challenge before but it was really turning my stomach.  Winners got to take their spit-laden pork back. But Brandon cooked it up so I guess that would kill spit germs. I don't know what happened to the other pig.  I don't think the winners got it.

[Lamb18]

It's the loved ones visit! I guess Brandon's dad got the looks there were  in the Hantz family. Ha! His dad is like a better looking Russell, same devious mind, trying to bully Coach in taking Brandon to final three. I wonder if he and Russell put Brandon up to auditioning.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Lamb18

[KimberStormer]

That challenge is just about unwatchable for me.  I don't care about the eating bugs or whatever, but that one...

[Lamb18]

In watching this season I've gotten this sense about Brandon. I don't have anything tangible to back it up with, just my observations:

I think he was an emotional little boy who wanted to please his father and probably Uncle Russell, and I think they treated him with impatience and contempt. Maybe he cried about stuff, maybe his feelings were easily hurt, maybe he just displayed his emotions and wasn't stoic. There's a certain type of man who looks down on that type of behavior in their sons and are really hard on their sons because of it.  They don't try to understand their sons, they just want their sons to "knock it off" and will call them names and jeer at them, "sissy", "like a girl", etc. Of course that makes the little boy try harder to please his father and tamp down his emotions because it's "wrong" to be the type of emotional boy that he is.  You can see Brandon's wanting to please the father in his relationship with Coach and definitely in his relationship with God. (Note: I am NOT saying all Christians have pleasing the father issues, I just think that Brandon does.)

I was curious to see how Brandon's father treated him. Although there was the huggy huggy stuff, there was definitely the expectation that Brandon bring home the $1,000,000 "for the family" and to not screw it up by being loyal. I felt like he was more concerned about getting the money than he was with the well-being of his son. I'm curious as to the impression you all had when you first watched the season. Then of course Brandon screws it up by choosing loyalty and what God said to him (and what Coach said) instead of playing to win. He's got the instincts to be a smart player but he gets really messed up in his head. Then there was the messed up stuff around Mikayla.

I've actually enjoyed this season, wondering what's going to happen the next episode.  I wonder what it would have been like without Coach and Ozzie. (I liked how Christine and Stacy said "Benjamin", refusing to say "Coach".)

[Star Aristille]

7 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Then there was the messed up stuff around Mikayla.

What always bothered me about that mess was that after Brandon's attack on her, the editors, in particular, showed that they wanted us to sympathize with the attacker and not the victim.  We didn't get to see or hear how Mikayla felt about that at all, save for one few-second shot of her sitting alone in tears.  But all the editors really wanted us to see was another "Waaaahhhh!  I don't wanna be Uncle Russell!" confessional from Brandon's way-too-forced storyline.  Maybe it's just because Brandon ended up outlasting her that they focused on him more, or maybe it's because the editors really wanted us to like or even love Russell's nephew since they'd tried to force several fans to love Russell seasons before him, but it bugged me.

[Lamb18]

Yeah, that was one reason I really couldn't like him even though I could feel some sympathy at times. He was such a textbook case of the man blaming the woman for his own sexual thoughts: "It has to be her fault, she must be tempting me in some way or really want it or really be a whore underneath that nice girl cover or I wouldn't be feeling this way."  Also all that stuff about God told him to do this and told him to do that - Coach used that ploy, too. That's just a lame excuse for justifying any decision you make. 

Oh here's Coach blabbing on about being a Christian man. (I'm a Christian, too, but I dislike people using Christianity as a manipulative ploy and for self-aggrandizing purposes.)

[ljenkins782]

On 11/14/2017 at 1:38 AM, KimberStormer said:

Quote

I just watched the reward/immunity challenge where each team had to tear flesh off a roast pig and put it in a basket. I've seen this challenge before but it was really turning my stomach.  Winners got to take their spit-laden pork back. But Brandon cooked it up so I guess that would kill spit germs. I don't know what happened to the other pig.  I don't think the winners got it

That challenge is just about unwatchable for me.  I don't care about the eating bugs or whatever, but that one...

It's revolting. Besides the spit issue, the tearing with the teeth is so disgusting to watch. They've done that one at least twice and I can't watch it. 

Quote

Yeah, that was one reason I really couldn't like him even though I could feel some sympathy at times. He was such a textbook case of the man blaming the woman for his own sexual thoughts: "It has to be her fault, she must be tempting me in some way or really want it or really be a whore underneath that nice girl cover or I wouldn't be feeling this way."  Also all that stuff about God told him to do this and told him to do that - Coach used that ploy, too. That's just a lame excuse for justifying any decision you make. 

That was definitely disturbing, especially with Brandon's instability thrown into the mix. 

[cherrypj]

On 11/15/2017 at 9:05 PM, Star Aristille said:

But all the editors really wanted us to see was another "Waaaahhhh!  I don't wanna be Uncle Russell!" confessional from Brandon's way-too-forced storyline.

I find myself grinding my teeth every time Brandon is on the screen. His presence is making this season the worst one yet. I'm hoping it gets better (I finished episode 6 last night, where Brandon blew up during Tribal Council, chastising his tribe mates for daring to be disloyal to Edna). 

I definitely don't see any Survivor Mastermind (TM) in Cochran.

[Lamb18]

I think Coach was the mastermind that season. He really held his tribe together. Maybe cultmaster would be a better word.

[Star Aristille]

9 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

I think Coach was the mastermind that season. He really held his tribe together. Maybe cultmaster would be a better word.

Actually, you need to listen to Albert and Sophie's separate podcast interviews for this season.  They were the masterminds.  It was only editing that showed that Coach was.  The alliance of five that was put together was actually Sophie and Albert's doing, not Coach's.  They were the ones who chose Coach, Brandon, and Rick for the alliance because they knew they'd be loyal.  Coach's main contribution was keeping Edna close till it was too late for her to flip, but nothing beyond that.

[KimberStormer]

I mean, Albert and Sophie have all the reason in the world to claim that.  There was no mastermind this season.  It was the boringest, ploddingest of Pagongings that required no strategy at all.  "Next I will vote out another member of the enemy alliance.  My plan after that is to again vote a different member of that enemy alliance, until they are all gone, at which point I will vote out the lower members of my alliance."  That was a pretty genius move on the part of Richard Hatch, not Albert, 22 seasons later.

Flipping Cochran won the game.  I'm sure Sophie says that was all her, too.  Sure looked like Coach to me on TV, but of course there's editing, so who knows.  Personally I'm much more inclined to see that as terrible, terrible play by Savaii rather than any genius on the part of Coach, Sophie, Albert, Rick, or whoever else wants to claim Survivor greatness for themselves on the other tribe.  Unless it was, as I joked above, a crazy backwards move by Ozzy, which would be fantastic.

[Star Aristille]

16 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Flipping Cochran won the game.  I'm sure Sophie says that was all her, too.  Sure looked like Coach to me on TV, but of course there's editing, so who knows.  Personally I'm much more inclined to see that as terrible, terrible play by Savaii rather than any genius on the part of Coach, Sophie, Albert, Rick, or whoever else wants to claim Survivor greatness for themselves on the other tribe.

It was.  Back during the season, there was an Insider video released that specifically showed that Sophie was the defining factor of the flip.  She offered Cochran a F4 alliance with herself, Coach, and Albert.  Despite it looking like Coach played into the flip, it was really that move that did it.

[SVNBob]

23 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Personally I'm much more inclined to see that as terrible, terrible play by Savaii rather than any genius on the part of Coach, Sophie, Albert, Rick, or whoever else wants to claim Survivor greatness for themselves on the other tribe.

Precisely.  When Ozzy is the strategic leader of an alliance, said alliance is thoroughly doomed to failure.

[cherrypj]

And the way Ozzy constantly berated Cochran, is it any wonder he flipped?

I’m thinking... no. 

Just saw the ep where Savaii loses and “sends” Ozzy to Redemption. He did this flying wall kick, in anger, after the challenge that made me laugh and laugh.

[cherrypj]

I honestly can't see how Sophie won. Sure, she won immunity several times. She had a breakdown in the next to last tribal. But I wouldn't have thought she would get so many votes compared to Albert. (I don't think Coach had a chance: he was too visibly making deals with everyone.) Baffling. 

I've started the next season, and it's clear that Kim is the winner: the camera lingers on her in a way that no one else gets. The camera pans to her even when she has nothing to say, other than to nod/shake her head. Sophie didn't get that in this season. Coach sure did, and maybe that was intentional. 

Eh. On to the next!

[healthnut]

Finished this season for the first time, I enjoyed it. Having seen Caramoan first, it was interesting seeing Dawn, Cochran, and Brandon’s first season. Can’t say that any of them should’ve came back though. Felt sorry for Brandon though, his family really wasn’t very supportive. Sophie was a worthy winner, I just wish they had shown more of her. 

I’d love to see Christine and Jim Rice play again. 

And finding out Russell dated Mikayla for awhile...ICK. 

[NutMeg]

And that's the first season I thought of when the new fire making became the rule. Ozzy must feel cursed. First, he lost his first season by ONE vote, which is rare enough. Then he comes back [after a second showing, I know] on a season when once eliminated, he just has to beat people, gladiator style, one after the other, to reenter the game, which is perfectly in his ballpark. As an added bonus, he gets to live on his own island for a while, which is just joy to him. So of course he reenters the game, but is beaten at 4 and voted off. And now he must be thinking that he could have made fire faster than any one of the doofuses on that season. Or any season after. And he may be right. And that's why he's on the top of my list of tragic Survivor contestants. He is just perfect at the physical part of the game, and he knows it. He is not good at the strategic part, and I think he knows it, which is why he was willing to ally with the complete opposite of him (Cochran in South Pacific - I must be the only one who thought his offer of an alliance was sincere, or Sandra in whatever returnees' season - if only there hadn't been a switch, I think she was ok with working with him too). I'm frustrated for him, because there are a couple of seasons when the probability he could have won is very high, his first time was the first F3, right? (he would have won straight on in an F2 against anyone but Yul, and could have beat Yul because he had had no powerful II to hide behind, still not sure, but good odds) or in South Pacific if the F4 challenge was to determine who would make fire faster (and maybe Coach, Sophie and Albert were the fire whizzes, but yeah, I think this would have been his to lose, and he had the jury waiting to vote for him rather than any of the other ones). He must be the only player who would have won if the rules were what they became later on, and it sucks.