S05.E05: The Rat King

[ShadowFacts]

 

I still want to know how Trubel found Nick's new lair. I was totally cracking up when he found the panel of buttons and just started pushing them. It's a good thing she didn't get the rocket launcher option installed or the new lair would have become the burned down lair.

 

The thing with the secret lair is that anybody can just follow Nick home from work.  What I don't get is why Meisner necessarily needs GPS if he and Teresa are working together.  Unless it's for general security reasons, so she can be found at any time.

[OtterMommy]

Instead of being on the phone in his darkened office, his new schtick is going to be sitting with sleazy politicians listening to their grandiose plans.

 

Frankly, I'd rather see him on the phone.  Not that I liked it--I did NOT--but at least it wasn't as flat out stupid as this mayoral thing is.

[OtterMommy]

So Meisner is a Grimm?  Kind of seems like it.

 

Since we don't have a Meisner thread yet (Martin Meisner: Taming the Biest?), here is my theory.  I think he's either a Grimm....or a Zauberbiest. I don't think he's wesen (personally, I don't think the 'biests are wesen).  If he were Wesen, he would have woged out in the fight.  However, we know from Renard, that Zauberbiests would not necessarily do that (remember both the fight with Zombie Nick and then with Kenneth...it was clear that Renard made a conscious decision to woge in order to summon more strength).

 

I would be firmly in the "Grimm" camp, except we didn't see him attack the nurse in the elevator.  Now, that could be that--thanks to the slapfest earlier in the ep--the show had already reached ts allowed violence quota for this episode--if that is actually a thing--or maybe we weren't supposed to see Meisner...yet.

[ShadowFacts]

Since we don't have a Meisner thread yet (Martin Meisner: Taming the Biest?), here is my theory.  I think he's either a Grimm....or a Zauberbiest. I don't think he's wesen (personally, I don't think the 'biests are wesen).  If he were Wesen, he would have woged out in the fight.  However, we know from Renard, that Zauberbiests would not necessarily do that (remember both the fight with Zombie Nick and then with Kenneth...it was clear that Renard made a conscious decision to woge in order to summon more strength).

 

I would be firmly in the "Grimm" camp, except we didn't see him attack the nurse in the elevator.  Now, that could be that--thanks to the slapfest earlier in the ep--the show had already reached ts allowed violence quota for this episode--if that is actually a thing--or maybe we weren't supposed to see Meisner...yet.

 

How about Meisner:  Transcontinental Ass-kicker? 

 

I doubt that nurse is getting out alive. 

 

As far as his Grimm status, another possibility is that a parent is/was a Grimm, and he's in the know.  But not possessing the actual Grimminality.  I like the international man of mystery thing up to a point, but I'm wanting some light shed on his origins and motivations. 

[Darklazr]

Renard is being set up for a big fall (IMO), since we saw his picture on the screen right before the wesen woman jumped out the window in episode #2.   Actually, I think everyone involved in rescuing Monroe last year will be targeted in some way.

 

Meisner is hot and so deserves a woman NOT named Adalind or Juliette.  Adalind will no doubt eventually do something equally as nasty to Meisner as she's done to Hank, Renard and Nik.  She went after Eric with the sole purpose of getting pregnant in order to sell the baby!

 

Juliette needs to stay, dead!

[OtterMommy]

Meisner is hot and so deserves a woman NOT named Adalind or Juliette.  Adalind will no doubt eventually do something equally as nasty to Meisner as she's done to Hank, Renard and Nik.  She went after Eric with the sole purpose of getting pregnant in order to sell the baby!

 

The different, I think, between Meisner with Adalind verus Nick or Renard is that when Adalind inevitably does something nasty--which we know she will--Meisner will retaliate.  Nick or Renard would just move her in to live with them....

Edited December 7, 2015 by OtterMommy

[OtterMommy]

 

Also, I think Nick intentionally wanted to tell that girl he was a Grimm, so she could start being honest with him about what happened. I don't see that he wants to keep it a secret. I think sometimes he kind of just wants to intimidate them. Like, yeah, I'm a freaking Grimm. And I can take you apart with my bare hands. So give me the information I want.

 

The thing is that this is not the first time he's done the "I'm a Grimm" thing.  When he first started doing it, it was definitely to assure the other person that they would not get hurt.  Then, sometimes it was to intimidate them.  Now, it just seems like part of his introduction.  I remember one of the first episodes in that terrible Jack the Ripper plot where he was questioning the klaustreich prostitute and he came out with this, "I'm a Grimm" line so that....she could tell him that she didn't see who killed her fellow prostitute?  Even in this episode, I can see what your saying about wanting the girl to be honest with him...but I still don't understand why him being a Grimm and he being a Wesen should have even been an issue.  Yes, it might have made the crime easier to solve--but making it more difficult might actually have benefited the plot.

 

It makes me wonder....how did Nick ever solve crimes before he became a Grimm and how do any of the other detectives solve any crimes?

[Shanna Marie]

Is it bad that I was kind of Team Rat King? I thought it was cool that the oppressed creatures found a way to fight back. But I think maybe this was supposed to parallel whatever Wesen uprising is going on, which seems to be bad. Or something.

 

While Nick's reaction to the James Bond stuff on Truble's bike was fun, what I really found amusing was his face when he started it and it made that "vroom" sound. He totally found his inner 8-year-old.

[Darklazr]

The different, I think, between Meisner with Adalind verus Nick or Renard is that when Adalind inevitably does something nasty--which we know she will--Meisner will retaliate.  Nick or Renard would just move her in to live with them....

 

I disagree.  Hexenbiest are known to be manipulative and sexual (see Katherine, Juliette, Adalind and Henriette) against Renard, Hank, Eric and Nik.  Adalind manipulated Nik to protect her from the Bee people and is doing it now with Kelly Jr.    Katherine manipulated Renard with "You used to be so much more fun!" when she was trying to get into his pants the day before Adalind tried to get the key from NIk by almost killing Hank.  Adalind will play the same games she's using now with Nik and will eventually use Meinser to stick it to Nik, Renard, Hank, whoever happens to be in the way of what she needs at the moment.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Darklazr

[OtterMommy]

I disagree.  Hexenbiest are known to be manipulative and sexual (see Katherine, Juliette, Adalind and Henriette) against Renard, Hank, Eric and Nik.  Adalind manipulated Nik to protect from the Bee people and is doing it now with Kelly Jr.    Katherine manipulated Renard with "You used to be so much more fun!" when she was trying to get into his pants the day before Adalind tried to get the key from NIk by almost killing Hank.  Adalind will play the same games she's using now with Nik and will eventually use Meinser to stick it to Nik, Renard, Hank, whoever happens to be in the way of what she needs at the moment.

 

I'm not saying she won't pull that crap--I'd be surprised if she didn't.  What I'm saying is that Meisner, unlike Nick or Renard, wouldn't let her get away with it.

[Corvino]

I'm surprised so many people think the Rat King concept is lame. That part of the episode was underdeveloped, certainly, but the idea of a lot of people forming themselves into one giant entity is cool. When I saw the preview for the episode, I was wondering how a giant animal fit in with the show's basic premise of people having a secret Wesen nature, but this was a satisfactory explanation. There was an early Clive Barker short story called "In the Hills, The Cities", which was about two small towns in the Balkans that fought each other every year by all the townsfolk of each town strapping themselves into a huge framework that let them operate collectively as a human-shaped giant. It was a very powerful story (there was an accident, and one of the "giants" sort of formed a collective consciousness that went mad), so maybe I liked this because it was similar. But the rat people actually mystically united, they didn't just strap themselves together; nice community spirit. (I also had been wondering if it had anything to do with the giant inflatable rat union picketers put up outside a scab shop.) It appeals to my sense of proportion that they were just knocked back apart and stunned by the electric charge, not mass-slaughtered.

 

Meisner and Adalind should develop True Love! When he helped her before, she was on the run, scared and desperate, and pregnant to the point of delivery, and he delivered her baby and saved her life from her pursuers. There was mutual liking and tenderness there. I really, REALLY hope they will resume and develop this and send the ghastly possibility of rom-com between Adalind and Nick to the oblivion it deserves. Please, writers.

 

The only advantage of Nick living in a secret warehouse in the abandoned warehouse district is that when Wesen and royals and such show up to kill him, they won't murder the innocent neighbours any more. Otherwise, it's depressing. As someone who is trying to get my apartment looking homey and cheery again after a move, I have the importance of the home environment on my mind and think it's too sad that Nick gave up that lovely house. Of course, that may become a plot point.

[ottilie]

"here is my theory.  I think he's either a Grimm....or a Zauberbiest."

That is a really good idea.The show, at the very beginning suggested that wesen woge very frequently, but then later showed that some suspects of crimes could remain in normal state for a long time under interrogation. But, they would still inevitably do it. Meisner never appears to. But he is heavily involved in wesen and royal politics, so either he's a weird kehrseite with lots of martial arts skills, or something else. They showed that male and female biests/witches have different skills.

 

Another thing I was thinking through - about two episodes ago, before one of the Uprising wesen committed suicide and was deleting files from her network of computers, it flashed some surveillance photos of Renard. Then in the next episode, they introduced the candidate for mayor. How could these two plot lines fail to intersect soon. The candidate for mayor probably is a stealth candidate for the Uprising group. So, Renard will probably have to pick a side. Since he worked with Meisner/resistance in the past and they are opposed to the Uprising, he will probably also be anti-uprising (although it's not certain) and then will want to influence the campaign. But what does the campaign want him to do?

[Commando Cody]

I thought the part of the nurse was wasted with that actress. They should have hired a different actor and used the actor who played the nurse as one of Rosalee's relatives - like an aunt or something. 

[OtterMommy]

I thought the part of the nurse was wasted with that actress. They should have hired a different actor and used the actor who played the nurse as one of Rosalee's relatives - like an aunt or something. 

 

She actually would have been the perfect actress to play DeEtta, Rosalee's older sister.  They look alike, although this actress is clearly older (something that is not clear with the actress playing Rosalee's sister) and she can turn on a dime and do crazy.

 

Personally, I'd turn a blind eye if, many episodes from now, they do recast her....

[Ottis]

I thought they handled that final scene really well with Meisner. Like just him going into that elevator, the look on the nurse's face, and the sounds. Sometimes leaving it up to the viewer's imagination is the way to go. Hey, when they do something right, I will admit that as well.

 

 

I read it completely differently. I thought Meisner and the nurse knew each other, and the whole thing was a set up. For what, and why, I have no idea. But I think Meisner is part of a long con against Nick. But I didn't hear any sounds on the elevator?

[OtterMommy]

I read it completely differently. I thought Meisner and the nurse knew each other, and the whole thing was a set up. For what, and why, I have no idea. But I think Meisner is part of a long con against Nick. But I didn't hear any sounds on the elevator?

 

There were female squishy, moaning sounds once the elevator door closed.  I didn't catch it at first because the background music was overpowering everything (which is something else I noticed about this episode...), but I caught it on a second viewing.

[tpel]

I agree with previous posters that it is ridiculous for Nick to not tell his friends about Trubel's return, and not have anyone at the hospital to keep an eye on her. But I want to note that, to me at least, this is not just a minor plot hole. As they often do, the writers have undermined the characters by making their behavior at odds with any recognizable human motivations. A few weeks ago, Nick was tearing around like a crazy person looking for Trubel. He did patently stupid things, like confronting an FBI agent in public, at her office. The only way the viewers could rationalize his behavior was to conclude that he was overwhelmed by his need to protect his friend and protege. Then he seemed to . . . get over that impulse? More recently there has been little evidence that he was continuing to search for her. And now she shows up and is clearly in need of protection, and he drops the ball. We can't even really spread the blame over the other characters, as Monroe and Rosalee didn't know Trubel was back until halfway through the episode, and might have reasonably assumed that Nick had her under police protection. Thus we are left to conclude that either Nick has a really short attention span or he doesn't care very much about Trubel. Well, really, I conclude that he's just badly written. But it is hard to stay attached to a character whose motives seem so divorced from human psychology.

 

On the plus side: MEISNER! He is awesome. I want Adelind to drop Nick like a hot potato and run off with Meisner and Kelly, picking up Diana along the way! All of this gag-worthy humanizing of Adelind the writers have put us through lately has done nothing to make me warm up to the idea of a Nick/Adelind pairing. But maybe it will let me see her as less-of-a-monster enough that I can root for an Adelind/Meisner pairing. It is interesting that we don't really know what Meisner is yet. I kind of hope he is neither Grimm nor Wesen, just a badass human :-)

[shapeshifter]

another possibility is that a parent is/was a Grimm, and he's in the know. But not possessing the actual Grimminality.

We must have a thread with "Grimminality" in the title!

The different, I think, between Meisner with Adalind verus Nick or Renard is that when Adalind inevitably does something nasty--which we know she will--Meisner will retaliate. Nick or Renard would just move her in to live with them....

Hah! So true.

I'm surprised so many people think the Rat King concept is lame. That part of the episode was underdeveloped, certainly, but the idea of a lot of people forming themselves into one giant entity is cool. When I saw the preview for the episode, I was wondering how a giant animal fit in with the show's basic premise of people having a secret Wesen nature, but this was a satisfactory explanation. There was an early Clive Barker short story called "In the Hills, The Cities", which was about two small towns in the Balkans that fought each other every year by all the townsfolk of each town strapping themselves into a huge framework that let them operate collectively as a human-shaped giant. It was a very powerful story (there was an accident, and one of the "giants" sort of formed a collective consciousness that went mad),

Speaking for myself, I had no problem with the hive-mind-body concept. But the CGI and choreography were laughable--which is okay with me too.

That short story sounds worth reading.

[Clanstarling]

I read it completely differently. I thought Meisner and the nurse knew each other, and the whole thing was a set up. For what, and why, I have no idea. But I think Meisner is part of a long con against Nick. But I didn't hear any sounds on the elevator?

What I heard sounded like a battle. I've been thinking he's a Wesen of some kind. On the other hand, I though that if there is anything comparable to a squib (person born to a magical family who does not have magical powers) in the Wesen community, maybe he's one. But I don't know what to think of him. I do appreciate that he and Adalind have a history, and some chemistry.

 

We must have a thread with "Grimminality" in the title!

Grimminality Shadowfacts. I love it.

 

Leaving Truble alone was simply plot convenience. There's no way they would leave her alone and helpless like that. They needed to think harder about how to get to where they wanted that situation to go. It wouldn't even be that awfully hard, most of the plausible reasons for taking her from the room were set up - and the nurse had every reason to go into the room and adjust the meds.

[ShadowFacts]

 

I read it completely differently. I thought Meisner and the nurse knew each other, and the whole thing was a set up. For what, and why, I have no idea. But I think Meisner is part of a long con against Nick. But I didn't hear any sounds on the elevator?

 

I don't think Meisner working with the nurse works because, for one thing, she needed to wake up Teresa and look in her eyes to confirm her Grimminality (btw I thought of it because we had been using 'Wesenality' somewhere in these parts).  She wouldn't have to do that if she was in cahoots with Meisner.

[OtterMommy]

Leaving Truble alone was simply plot convenience. There's no way they would leave her alone and helpless like that. They needed to think harder about how to get to where they wanted that situation to go. It wouldn't even be that awfully hard, most of the plausible reasons for taking her from the room were set up - and the nurse had every reason to go into the room and adjust the meds.

 

As someone said, I think on this very thread, there was a very easy way to close this plothole.  Have a police officer guard Trubel's room.  S/he could still have been knocked out/drugged so that the plot could have progressed as it did without the audience thinking Nick's a moron.

 

In addition to its other sins, this show is becoming very sloppy with things like this.

[OtterMommy]

I was just tipped off to this and I'm not sure if what I'm hearing right, but here it goes.

 

In the fight scene, right when Meisner walks in and says, "This is the emergency!" and everyone woges, it sounds like one of the male wesen characters says "Grimm!" about Meisner.....

[theatremouse]

I know they're clearly not going in this direction since they so obviously set up the paint factory as a location that will be some source of showdown later, but if I were Nick, and adequately paranoid, and not a moron, even though I care about Teresa and am glad to have found her not dead, she showed up at my super secret hideout AND had GPS on her stuff, and her stuff remained at my super secret hideout. I am now ditching my super secret hideout for a new one that is super secreter. Doesn't matter if I trust her or I trust Meisner. They found it; it's proven itself inadequate; it's toast.

Edited December 8, 2015 by theatremouse

[Darklazr]

I know they're clearly not going in this direction since they so obviously set up the paint factory as a location that will be some source of showdown later, but if I were Nick, and adequately paranoid, and not a moron, even though I care about Teresa and am glad to have found her not dead, she showed up at my super secret hideout AND had GPS on her stuff, and her stuff remained at my super secret hideout. I am now ditching my super secret hideout for a new one that is super secreter. Doesn't matter if I trust her or I trust Meisner. They found it; it's proven itself inadequate; it's toast.

 

This!  I, too, would be looking for a new place while Trubel was passed out and before Adalind could find a way to stab me in the back!  

 

Nick has spent what feels like less than ten minutes with baby Kelly over the last five weeks, so the only reason the kid was written in was to give Adalind/CC something to do story wise, but it's just so lame.    Without the baby on board, Nick could dispatch Trubel from his place once she's collected by Meisner and then find a new home, pronto!

[Prevailing Wind]

I know they're clearly not going in this direction since they so obviously set up the paint factory as a location that will be some source of showdown later, but if I were Nick, and adequately paranoid, and not a moron, even though I care about Teresa and am glad to have found her not dead, she showed up at my super secret hideout AND had GPS on her stuff, and her stuff remained at my super secret hideout. I am now ditching my super secret hideout for a new one that is super secreter. Doesn't matter if I trust her or I trust Meisner. They found it; it's proven itself inadequate; it's toast.

But we haven't had a chance to use the Double Super Duperer Secreter tunnel!!

[ShadowFacts]

I've said it before, the hideout was never a hideout because anyone can follow him there anytime.  Adalind needs to be sent off to Europe again.  But since that's probably not going to happen, a nice condo surrounded by other nice condos and regular security in the middle of town would be better than that god-forsaken paint factory.  And the corker for me is that Nick is trusting the exact person he should never trust with his or any kid. 

[ottilie]

Another thing to ponder is what was Nick's mother doing. After all, she is the one who arranged the plane to send Adalind into hiding in Portland, not realizing that she already knew and had bad reputation with Nick. She was part of the same network with Meisner (who still could be some sort of free agent rather than sharing goals). Nick's mother also knew that there was a royal in Portland but didn't know it was Renard. How did his mother finance all her movements? She must have had some important alliances. Until the end, she was somewhat better at martial arts and stealth than her son who is more justice oriented.

 The show has said that the Grimms were not just law enforcement agents, but had frequently worked for the royal families to keep order in both human and wesen worlds. Renard had many good reasons to dislike his family, and Meisner was seeking revenge on royals killing loved ones. But will grimms just pick which royal they find most suitable, rather than just trying to eliminate them?

[Actionmage]

The show has said that the Grimms were not just law enforcement agents, but had frequently worked for the royal families to keep order in both human and wesen worlds. Renard had many good reasons to dislike his family, and Meisner was seeking revenge on royals killing loved ones. But will grimms just pick which royal they find most suitable, rather than just trying to eliminate them?

 

Taking my reply to Wesen thread.

[TV Anonymous]

With Meisner and Adalind back, shall we expect Kelly to have a younger sibling in the not-too-distant future?

[Darklazr]

With Meisner and Adalind back, shall we expect Kelly to have a younger sibling in the not-too-distant future?

 

I want Diana and Kelly Jr. dead so let's not add any more freaking babies!

[Darklazr]

What the bleeping what?!  I watched this episode again last night and the utter stupidity of Nick not having someone (Wu, Bud or Rosalie) protecting Truble at the hospital was really stupid!  Nick can't fathom why Trubel is not awake and this is after he finds all of the fake ID's, new identity, cash and knows Trubel lives in a secured building/apartment in town!  Dumb! Hank and Wu are just as bad as Nick.  Even Rosalie and Monroe did not suggest that maybe one of them should go check on Truble instead of helping Hank and Nick.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Darklazr