People in charge (supposedly)

[caracas1914]

"I look at the Empire cast and everything that's going on with them, and I'm just like, 'Don't do it. Keep it together.' And I think they have in the way that we never did," says Murphy, who adds, "To this day, I'm devastated by everything that happened with that show."

Here is what I don't get: how was the cast responsible for Glee's demise? For someone who's always prided himself as to being in charge and calling the shots , his sudden use of the word "we' is beyond ironic.

Even if the actors on a personal level told the meddling Ryan " go fuck yourself" it's not like they had control of the writing, storylines or any of the major creative decisions.

The cast from all accounts did their professsional jobs from day one and yet somehow their not " keeping it together"is now ambiguously alluded as a factor. WTF.

Edited October 18, 2015 by caracas1914

[shantown]

Just like with the show, Murphy thinks he's spinning gold but he's really just flinging poop everywhere. Guy can't even write HIMSELF as a good character.

[jaytee1812]

That's the weird thing. He's tried to put out his own spin, and yet the actors, especially those who weren't in favour, come out smelling of roses.

[tom87]

n/m

Edited October 18, 2015 by tom87

[fakeempress]

What is he alluding to about the Empire cast?

[caracas1914]

"I look at the Empire cast and everything that's going on with them, and I'm just like, 'Don't do it. Keep it together.' And I think they have in the way that we never did," says Murphy, who adds, "To this day, I'm devastated by everything that happened with that show."

How can he even extrapolate EMPIRE's one season so far with the Glee cast?

My guess is that he's saying the EMPIRE cast is handling runaway success much better than Glee did, but no matter what he's referring to, he's still comparing Glee' cast unfavorably to another cast.

It has to be said one more time, what a pompous self serving asshole.

Not that he would compare his show running skills unfavorably to Lee Daniels of Empire, of course.

Edited October 18, 2015 by caracas1914

[fakeempress]

I thought he meant there was some beef brewing in the Empire cast that got quickly resolved, and wondered what went on. So he's saying Glee floundered because the cast didn't "keep it together" -- not because of the producers choices, cause man, they are hard!

I guess we now know where the buck stops per Ryan.

Edited October 18, 2015 by fakeempress

[SevenStars]

Are we that surprise that Ryan is implying that it was the cast behavior that was the downfall of Glee?

I mean if I remember correctly the first thing that Ryan pointed the finger at for Glee going down was the fandom. Then later he used the Cory excuse. So I'm not surprise that he is pointing the finger at the cast now because he knows he can't afford to point it at the fans since those are the fans he is after for SQ.

[jaytee1812]

Like or dislike this cast I always thought they were remarkably well behaved. Considering that you had a cast most in their late teens and twenties, at the beginning of most of their careers, there's really no sign of them being anything but professional.

[spiritof76]

 

My guess is that he's saying the EMPIRE cast is handling runaway success much better than Glee did, but no matter what he's referring to, he's still comparing Glee' cast unfavorably to another cast.

Which is a crazy comparison to make. I mean we all know Terrence Howard is personally a hot mess. However, both he and Taraji are OSCAR NOMINATED ACTORS. They have been in this game a long, long time. This is not some over night success story for them. Some of the other actors are young/newish, but when you have someone like Taraji leading that cast, and make no mistake, she is leading that cast, I just don't see a lot of people getting out of line. Not even Terrence who she basically got hired for the show.

 

Glee were a bunch of very young/newish actors across the board. (I'm not counting Jane and Matt and Jyama, etc. The adults on this show  were always set apart). Yes, some like Lea had Broadway success, etc. and had done other things, but Ryan set himself up as their "lead" if you will. He was the older, more experienced Hollywood, insider opening up this new world to them and guiding them along. Which was fine, until it wasn't. And he got his feelings all hurt. I wonder if it occurred to him that if there were was any strife or discord between the cast, that it was him causing it? If he played favorites and it was obvious and was done in a very blatant way, then of course eventually people are going to chafe against that. Anyway, I agree that outwardly this cast always came off pretty well to me. No everyone wasn't best friends, but from what I saw they all had a pretty good chemistry with each other and seemed to work well together.

[Pink ranger]

To be fair look at what a train wreck the Greys Anatomy cast has been over the years and they are composed predominantly of experienced actors aged 30+.

[camussie]

I always thought Ryan blamed the newbies for season 4/5 not being as successful, helped by some bitter cast members. But that narrative is a bit hard to play when the lead actress 'the new Rachel' has done better than the original Rachel post Glee

 

 

Except for one interview where he said something about them not catching on, he didn't really blame the season 4 newbies.  His biggest scapegoat for Glee taking a tumble during that time was Cory's passing, even though Glee was well on its way to bottoming out before Cory passed.  Kevin Reilly blamed the newbies a few times but RM not so much.

 

What I think happened is when Fox told RM to shut Lima down he threw an epic temper tantrum i.e. if i can't have my favorite toy then I will trash it so no one else can either.  Because of that Lima immediately got short shifted save for, of course, his favs Blaine/Darren and Sam/Chord.  Then when show went to New York he made that a hot mess too.

 

As far as bitter cast members blaming the newbies, I can't say that I have ever read rumors of that.  I read rumors of tension with RIB, RM especially, but not with the newbies.

Edited October 19, 2015 by camussie

[caracas1914]

By The end of Season 3 most of the sheen had been stripped off Glee, it's critical acclaim had dried up, Emmy noms were practically gone, and the ratings had had a marked drop though still respectable. Of course Ryan being Ryan, instead of seeing his shitty writing and show running as the problem, decided a cast overhaul was needed because the original cast would be 'unrealistic' sticking around HS and Ryan is all about realism.

So it's clear with his rebooted Season 4 that Ryan wanted to keep McKinley permanently with new stars but other than that, I wonder if he had a plan beyond that.

We do know he wanted the rebooted cast to start concert touring , unlike the original cast who said 'no MAS'.

Say the Noobs *had* succeeded beyond Ryan's wildest dreams in reenergizing the show there is no way that his faves Lea, Darren and Chord could be fully serviced in a split narrative their characters graduated and in the NY setting. The non-faves, namely Naya, Cory, Chris, Matt and probably Kevin would be phased out or relegated guest status or supporting characters to his big 3.

Won't throw it out he had plans still for a spin-off starring now Daleastreet. I do think it was all a moot point because American Horror Story was going strong and Ryan's attention was diverted to the new shiny toy.

Edited October 19, 2015 by caracas1914

[Sara2009]

I wonder what Ryan would've done with " Klaine" if he did a spinoff with Lea, Darren, and Chord.

[AndySmith]

Ugh. This man is horrible. I kind of feel bad that AHS and SQ are tanking, since there are lots of good actors on both shows, but anything to give this little turd less power and attention in Hollywood, so much the better. He can blame the cast all he wants, but most of us who did stick around did it for the cast much more than we did for ths shitty writing and plots.

[jaytee1812]

I thought that AHS was still doing pretty well. I mean I've seen some critical press, but aren't there are still plenty of viewers tuning in.

[AndySmith]

True, but I do feel the show has peaked. Between the negative press and Jessica Lange leaving, who knows? Maybe Gaga will be enough of a stunt to keep drawing people in.

[tom87]

AHS Hotel ratings have dropped each week stating at high as 2.99 demo and 5+ mill viewers to a 1.67 demo and 3+ million viewers.

 

I agree the showed peaked.  Even with Jessica I think the viewership would have waned after Freak Show.

[fakeempress]

Ryan gave a Funny Girl update

Edited October 27, 2015 by fakeempress

[tom87]

They pretty much backed away from that a while ago.   Not even sure if Ryan still has the rights any more.  Someone is doing a production in London.

[fakeempress]

That may be different. Ryan may hold only North American, not worldwide rights.

[tom87]

That may be different. Ryan may hold only North American, not worldwide rights.

My thoughts about that were more about how he use to mention he had the right he hasn't said that in a while .

[fakeempress]

So last night was the amfAR gala honouring Ryan. Lots of Hwd and people from his current shows. Only Lea from Glee seems like, and Gwyneth, Cheyenne and Bomer if we count them. That's kinda sad.  Don't know if Darren was originally meant to attend but then took the hosting gig in NYC last night, he and Lea were among the gala co-chairs which I think means parting with a certain amount of cash. Chris made it known he was at the Madonna show in San Diego. 

 

Ryan should get Sharon Stone on AHS . She doesn't age, in photos. 

[shoregirl]

Lea is not representin Glee. Besides being co-chair she was representing Scream Queens as we're Jamie Lee Curtis and Emma Roberts. Matt Bomer and Cheyenne Jackson are both on AHS. I don't read much into it besides they're all apart of current show and Gwenyth is dating Brad Falchuck.

Edited October 31, 2015 by shoregirl

[fakeempress]

That's what I said, the only people from Ryan's old shows who attended or were involved seem to be the currently employed by him, or stars in his movies like Julia. I thought more Glee people may show up since it closed just recently, but I guess not. Maybe it was planned this way for expediency or something. Still, made me kinda sad, that it had to come to this. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by fakeempress

[shantown]

It makes me positively Glee-ful that pretty much no one from Glee showed up. I think that says a lot.

[caracas1914]

Like any other showrunner/producer, Ryan has folks who hit it off with him personally, love him and continue to work with him, others who have only a professional relationship per the current gig, and some who probably would prefer never to see his face again.

Ryan himself said in the THR interview that things ended badly with some of the Glee cast so it's hardly a shocker that some won't show up to a " tribute" to him.

Other than Darren and Jenna who basically show up to every benefit/gala/opening known to man, my guess is most actors have to pick and choose what they attend since I would imagine most of these events blend together after awhile.

Edited October 31, 2015 by caracas1914

[jaytee1812]

Other than Darren and Jenna who basically show up to every benefit/gala/opening known to man, .

Well Jenna's Instagram showed her shopping so she wasn't interested in this one.

It's usually Dianna and Kevin I see at the opening of an envelope.

[fakeempress]

I didn't wonder about the people we know aren't likely to show up even though events like these are fantastic network opportunities with lots of heavyweights attending, it was more interesting to see most of those he namechecked as closest to him not being there. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by fakeempress

[tom87]

I don't even see a reason for the glee cast to have been invited.  They had enough stars of his shows to represent that aspect  and would probably target  people with deeper pockets or AmFar supporters.   Seemed to be his current cast, executives,  fashion people and some the usuals like Sharon Stone.

 

Anyway  Ryan Muphy's speech from the event  is here.

 

http://www.refinery29.com/2015/10/96726/ryan-murphy-aids-gay-in-hollywood

[AndySmith]

Because its nice to invite former co-workers to events like this and not only do that when they're making you money?

[tom87]

Because its nice to invite former co-workers to events like this and not only do that when they're making you money?

Yes if you have unlimited room.  It is a easy way to whittle down the list just stick with current cast.

[AndySmith]

Squeezing a few extra former employees isn't impossible.

[caracas1914]

Dianna is a whole different level, she's just as likely to be in London, Paris or the continent for some event as in New York or LA.

[camussie]

And a lot of her events are tied to the fashion industry.

As far the AMFAR event given what RM said in his recent THR interview the only mildly surprising absence from Glee was Chord.

[Glorfindel]

Because its nice to invite former co-workers to events like this and not only do that when they're making you money?

Especially when the show these former co-workers were on (and helped shape it with their own unique personalities and talents) was your biggest success to date  and brought you a lot of critical acclaim (no matter how that all went down the drain in the later seasons of Glee).

 

But then, Ryan never really liked to acknowledge the Glee cast's signifcant contribution in Glee's popularity (except maybe for Lea and Darren). Since he thought he could replace (after copying and pasting their characters) most of the original castmembers in one fell swoop in season 4.

 

So no wonder very few of them now would want to go (or to be fair: get invited) to some RM asslicking gala.

[tom87]

Haha.  

[Pink ranger]

I think that while during Glee the actors where more likely to go to things like this to publicly support their boss, that isn't really required any more. TBH it is probably isn't a " diss" on either side that more actors weren't invited/didn't attend, more that they have moved on in their careers/lives and are not currently in the same circle sorta speak.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Pink ranger

[camussie]

Yesterday Cory's version of "This is not the End" came up on one of my playlists and once again it underscored to me how utterly incompetent those in charge were.  They literally had a song of their lead who died singing "This is Not the End" and in two seasons they didn't work it in anywhere.  Of course he wouldn't be on film singing it but they could have used it to overlay a montage at some point.  

 

If you want to listen to it you can here.  It is one my favorites of his.

Edited December 22, 2015 by camussie

[ExplainItAgain]

Totally agree camussie. It was a travesty they didn't use that as the last song. I thought for sure they would use it to close out glee.

[tom87]

Maybe they thought it would come off insensitive to have him sing a song called not the end??

[camussie]

I don't think it should have been the last song. I just think it should have been used at some point. I also don't see how anyone could see using it as insensitive. The words and the music are so hopeful that it would have been a great way underscore that finns impact and memory live on even as he is gone

[tom87]

I don't think it should have been the last song. I just think it should have been used at some point. I also don't see how anyone could see using it as insensitive. The words and the music are so hopeful that it would have been a great way underscore that finns impact and memory live on even as he is gone

becasue nealry everything is offensive to people now days.

 

I could see them seeing the song's title and not going beyond that.   But I could see them forgetting they even did that song tbh too.

[caracas1914]

That's a nice song by Cory.

[diamondsdancing]

It's usually Dianna and Kevin I see at the opening of an envelope.

This is hilarious considering Kevin went to maybe 2 or 3 events total the entire year and is one of the cast members that least pops up at random events. Darren alone probably went to 5 times as many events.

[tom87]

This is hilarious considering Kevin went to maybe 2 or 3 events total the entire year and is one of the cast members that least pops up at random events. Darren alone probably went to 5 times as many events.

Yeah Darren goes to the most stuff by far.

[shantown]

Some posts in the "Cast in Other Roles" thread really got me thinking about how terribly RIB structured their cast. Most shows operate really well with a group of core characters, a larger pool of secondary characters, and a variety of tertiary characters to fill in.

 

Glee was awful at this. Characters were definitely promoted/demoted to the wrong level - Why did Becky Jackson have more screen time than Mike Chang? Where did Sugar Motta go? They also didn't balance the numbers at each level correctly - Blaine and Rachel were seemingly their only core characters by the end. It seemed like Becky was a secondary character with people who were tertiary (but should have been core) like Tina propping her up.

 

It continues to boggle the mind.

[tom87]

I do not even see where Blaine was core in season 6.  It was more Rachel and Sue.

 

Having  Will, Finn and Rachel have story arcs that ran thoughout the season and then giving the supporting cast a few focus episodes like  Artie in Wheels or Mercedes in Home worked best imo. 

Edited March 11, 2016 by tom87

[caracas1914]

I realize we are beating a dead horse yet again, but it's what we do. ; )

Sure, Glee handled the mix of lead characters versus supporting characters badly but the overriding problem IMO was bigger than even that; in that most of the characters were written inconsistently to the point that they eventually became unfunny jokes/caricatures. (I would argue they were relatively effective and funny caricatures in Season 1) Lead characters/supporting characters like Becky and tertiary ones were all thrown in the maelstrom of shitty writing that Glee devolved into.

Blaine got plenty of focus in Season 4, as did Rachel in Season 5 and all that accomplished was to make their characters crash and burn with terrible unappealing characterizations that lost audience sympathy/interest in them. I don't mean a character has be morally "good", but a character better be interesting and that was Glee's major fail. Who the hell cared about Rachel's inevitable Broadway stardom in the end when the journey was handled so spectacularly incompetently.

Tina got a whole lot more focus in Season 4 and all it did was make the character look like a pathetic piece of shit.

Edited March 13, 2016 by caracas1914

[tom87]

I cared even if I didn't like some of her stories. Her leaving school/Bway was done remarkably bad. But I think she was humbled in season 6 enough for me even though I think they should have shown more growth with interacting with the new students.

 

In the end they writers were lazy and would go for the joke or jokey situation over the development of the character.