S08.E07: The Last Seduction

[WendyCR72]

In order to hunt down the brutal murderer of a grifting seducer, Castle & Beckett must investigate New York’s elite. Meanwhile, Castle plans to surprise Beckett on their one-year wedding anniversary.

[Chado]

A lot of people are probably going to like this episode, I can't help but feel Beckett is just using Castle and taking advantage of his nature. It's a 'you can't have your cake and eat it too' type of situation for me.

 

Castle knows something is going on now at least. How frustrating is the scene between Castle/Ryan and Espo/Beckett where they are once again talking about lies and secrets. Beckett just never listens, she hears or gets all this advice, and nothing registers. It's like groundhog day.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Chado

[CastleSeason8]

A lot of people are probably going to like this episode, I can't help but feel Beckett is just using Castle and taking advantage of his nature. It's a 'you can't have your cake and eat it too' type of situation for me.

Castle knows something is going on now at least. How frustrating is the scene between Castle/Ryan and Espo/Beckett where they are once again talking about lies and secrets. Beckett just never listens, she hears or gets all this advice, and nothing registers. It's like groundhog day.

I hear what ur saying. I think they are trying to gain sympathy here for Kate, but it didnt work for me. I did like that Castle wasnt AS ridiculous this ep, and finally may be clued in.

The end scene, which Im sure will have many swooning, left me sad - once again. We'll see where they go from here.

Edited November 17, 2015 by CastleSeason8

[S55]

I presume many fans will enjoy this episode for probably just one scene. But, for me? Meh.

 

Sorry, Rob, but I needed more than an anniversary booty call. Especially after Beckett said to Castle earlier in the episode that even having dinner with him on their anniversary wouldn't be fair because she would still need them to be on a "timeout." And very little changed for them before or after that end scene occurred.

 

Hopefully we'll FINALLY see an angrier Castle. About damn time. 

 

I tuned out during the Ryan/Espo nonsense. Just. Didn't. Care. And felt like I was being anvil'ed by their problems mirroring Castle & Beckett's right now. 

[TWP]

This is what I get for believing Tweeters. Probably not the most objective opinions. Figured it would be good, but sounds like just another bunch of angst with a booty call. I guess I'll opt put of this one too. Oh well. Thanks, all.

[FlickerToAFlame]

I liked it. Good chemistry throughout the main 4 and a decent payoff at the end.

[Betweenthisandthat]

This would have worked as the third or fourth episode of the season or something. Have Caskett split, and then show Castle slowly find out why it happened rather than spend time trying to win Beckett back as if that's the only answer.  

 

I haven't been watching much of this season and didn't watch all of the episode, but I liked the end actually.  Caskett had their sexy moment, and Castle seems suspicious now.  That's an improvement.  I'm not that invested in the relationship itself, but the complaints online and rumors and storyline has me curious about how the show will work itself out of the situation they've created.

[Chado]

This is what I get for believing Tweeters. Probably not the most objective opinions. Figured it would be good, but sounds like just another bunch of angst with a booty call. I guess I'll opt put of this one too. Oh well. Thanks, all.

Essentially Ryan and Espo are used as the subtext for the Castle and Beckett relationship. Beckett says it would be 'unfair' to go to dinner with him earlier in the episode, but then sleeping with him is apparently OK.

 

There is a scene where Castle and Ryan are talking about Espo/Ryan situation (subtext here) and Beckett and Espo and talking about Espo/Ryan (did I mention there is subtext here)....and all it does is show how differently Castle and Beckett view their relationship and how each of them don't take their own advice.

 

Beckett thinks a strong relationship can survive anything (lies, secrets, cheating??) whilst Castle thinks a relationship can't survive secrets and lies. Beckett says Espo has to "let it go",ignoring how she is completely unable to do so herself.

 

Beckett has her head in the sand, and Castle can't see that his very own advice is prevalent to his lying wife.

 

Both of them are clueless, the only difference is that Beckett is manipulative as well.

[FlickerToAFlame]

Hey, NF even took his shirt off for sex this time ;)

@kaminsky131: Castle 8x07 " The Last Seduction" Moments Caskett - End Scene Caskett kiss and Bed#First Wedding https://t.co/n137gYowFH

Noticed how Beckett had trouble standing up from the bed/using her legs too.

Edited November 17, 2015 by FlickerToAFlame

[moodyblue]

I liked it and not just because of the final scene. What I like most about this show is the interaction between the main four, and I thought that had been missing in the previous episodes this season. We would get a lot of just three of them together but not all four of Castle, Beckett, Espo, and Ryan. Tonight we had a lot of interaction between all of them which I liked. It was also nice to see "feed the birds" between Castle, Ryan, and Espo. I don't think we have seen that since Season 3 maybe.

 

I like that Castle is getting a clue, and I hope they don't drop that next week. They are still dressing Alexis like a 40 year old woman, and there were a lot of things during the case that required some handwaving regarding the investigation but I did like the case.

 

I think this was my favorite episode of the season and the best chemistry we have seen between Castle and Beckett in awhile, and it was consistent throughout the whole episode. I even liked Ryan and Espo's side story.

Edited November 17, 2015 by moodyblue

[TWP]

Hey, NF even took his shirt off for sex this time ;)

@kaminsky131: Castle 8x07 " The Last Seduction" Moments Caskett - End Scene Caskett kiss and Bed#First Wedding https://t.co/n137gYowFH

Noticed how Beckett had trouble standing up from the bed/using her legs too.

 

Awfully dramatic music there at the end.  Didn't sound like comedy music to me, Mr. Hawley.

 

Yes, it's screwed up...the time out with booty call....leading Castle on, keeping him on the hook....if she has to go fight the big bad, let him go.  Tell him to look for someone else.  Why should she make him stick around for something that could very well never end.  But yes, I think he looked angry at last.

 

It's still way too depressing for me for entertainment.  Saw the tweets, watched the end scene.  Good enough.  I'll watch these shows after the series finale, probably next summer.

 

My husband said, "I'll bet they rewrote that scene because of the fans".  Nope, I distinctly remember a teaser BTS photo of the bedroom.  This has been part of their plan all along.

Edited November 17, 2015 by TWP

[KaveDweller]

Well, I really enjoyed this. Not just because of the last scene, I thought it was much more entertaining overall than last week.

 

Ryan and Esposito were amusing at the beginning, but did get a bit over the top for me.  I was really annoyed that Caskett cancelled their dinner to go deal with them. But at least they seem to have settled that subplot of them not getting along.

 

That actor who plays Vikram has negative charisma.  Seriously not only was he totally wooden in his scene, he pretty much just sucked any spark out of Stana when she was acting with him.  There seriously weren't any better actors than him for this part? Also, who the hell is Vikram to say whether Beckett has dinner with her husband? I still don't trust him. But mainly because I don't understand the point of his character if he's not there to betray someone. I don't get the point of Haley either, but at least she has personality.

 

I liked that Beckett said she thought celebrating their anniversary would be unfair to Castle. It would have been manipulative of her if she didn't, but she did make it clear where she stood and Castle still wanted to sleep with her. That's his call. Although I wish they would stop using the word time out. It sounds like something you'd say to a five-year-old.

 

It looks like they are setting this up to not be an easy reconciliation, with Beckett's "a strong relationship can survive anything" followed by Castle's "no relationship can survive secrets."

 

I liked that the divorce lawyer called them out on obtaining evidence illegally, but then she turned dumb by pulling a gun on a cop. How did she think she was going to get away? I also loved how both Castle and Beckett got caught trying to go undercover.  Cause they are pretty well known people.

 

I think those kisses at the end and the bedroom scene is the most intimate we've seen them physically in forever.  I think the only other time we saw them naked in bed was After the Storm and Murder He Wrote.

[FlickerToAFlame]

I think this is the first scene of the series with them both naked.

[Chado]

I liked that Beckett said she thought celebrating their anniversary would be unfair to Castle. It would have been manipulative of her if she didn't, but she did make it clear where she stood and Castle still wanted to sleep with her. That's his call. Although I wish they would stop using the word time out. It sounds like something you'd say to a five-year-old.

It's still manipulative of her.

[KaveDweller]

I think this is the first scene of the series with them both naked.

 

I guess you're right, Beckett was at least somewhat dressed in both of those scenes.  Well, they both can pull it off, they should do them more often.

 

It's still manipulative of her.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.  I mean her leaving Castle the way she did still sucks. I'm not defending that. But I don't think she was being manipulative with their little time out break.

Edited November 17, 2015 by KaveDweller

[MDL]

I thought the episode was meh, but I did like the ending scene.

It took me a while to get into the episode however, because it look like Stana was close to "phoning it in" in some of the early scenes. Maybe it's just me.

Something that distracted me: is something different about Stana's/Kate's appearance? Her hair/hair color seems different, and the only time I thought I saw "the real Kate" was in the last scene in bed with Castle.
I also noted during the bed scene that they were calling each other "Rick" and "Kate".

[Chado]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.  I mean her leaving Castle the way she did still sucks. I'm not defending that. But I don't think she was being manipulative with their little time out break.

She wants him to stay away, but doesn't actually use her position of power to do so. She is shown to be so indecisive that it just makes Castle more confident to keep doing so. How isn't that her taking advantage of Castle? Everything is on her time table. She is willing to give Castle breadcrumbs providing he asks for nothing that can't end as soon as it is given.

 

She thinks going to dinner is unfair, but shows up at his house, at night, after work. It's not even like Castle can make the decision (to sleep together) on his own lol, she clarifies that sleeping with him is fine providing nothing has to change. It's a booty call, that's all it is. It isn't "his call", Beckett is the one who left him, she is the one who is making the decision to sleep with him. She left, he is there. She came back for one night, that is all her decision.

 

She wants Castle to have undying hope, she wants him to be there for her without question, while she asks him to wait indefinitely for something he has no idea about.

 

All of this is manipulation, all of this is taking advantage of Castle's nature/personality. She knows Castle loves her, she knows Castle doesn't understand, all of her actions are geared towards keeping Castle in the dark, to create an environment where he learns nothing. Manipulative.

 

It's quite easy to suggest that Beckett's actions (going to Castle's home) was born out of the fear of his conversation with the divorce lawyer. Who isn't to say, that she did all of this to try and reassure herself that they are 'ok'?

Edited November 17, 2015 by Chado

[KaveDweller]

She thinks going to dinner is unfair, but shows up at his house, at night, after work. It's not even like Castle can make the decision (to sleep together) on his own lol, she clarifies that sleeping with him is fine providing nothing has to change. It's a booty call, that's all it is. It isn't "his call", Beckett is the one who left him, she is the one who is making the decision to sleep with him. She left, he is there. She came back for one night, that is all her decision

 

Her leaving was her call, yes.  I meant that agreeing to the booty call was his call.  It was his idea really.  He asked her to celebrate their anniversary, she said it would be unfair, but he convinced her otherwise. That's why she showed up at his place. It wasn't like she just showed up out of the blue saying she wanted him for one night if he was willing.

 

She wants Castle to have undying hope, she wants him to be there for her without question, while she asks him to wait indefinitely for something he has no idea about.

 

I specifically said I wasn't agreeing with her decision to leave and expect him to just wait.  That I've said is pretty inexcusable. I was just saying sleeping with Castle in this episode wasn't manipulative.

[Chado]

Her leaving was her call, yes.  I meant that agreeing to the booty call was his call.  It was his idea really.  He asked her to celebrate their anniversary, she said it would be unfair, but he convinced her otherwise. That's why she showed up at his place. It wasn't like she just showed up out of the blue saying she wanted him for one night if he was willing.

Except their anniversary dinner got cancelled because they agreed to individually speak to Ryan and Espo instead. Beckett had her 'out' and still didn't take it, STILL she chose to go to Castle's. Why do you think that was?

 

Is it maybe because she got worried about his reaction to the divorce lawyer? - I mean she even mentioned her concerns after they had sex. How noble was her visit really?

 

Beckett clearly wanted the same thing as Castle......well I mean, after she knew Castle wasn't expecting anything to change of course. Let's be honest, he barely had to convince her.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Chado

[verdana]

I enjoyed the episode but them having sex doesn't redeem this poorly conceived story one bit or excuse Beckett for leaving her husband, I wish I could have enjoyed the ending more in all it's Caskett goodness without it being framed as a booty call and a time out from their time out.

 

I thought the scene of Castle shuffling awkardly across the floor on his knees in a sheet to the phone was ridiculous, dude you're alone with your wife after having sex and she's not even in the room you can drop the sheet walk check the phone lol.

 

What was in that bag for dinner she brought, a packet of crisps?

 

Look if Castle wants to get laid that's his business and he probably needs the release but I wish he'd not given that "hope" speech to Beckett which effectively gave her the green light to carry on as she's been doing for weeks now - which is ignoring their separation (it is NOT a time out) and refusing to budge on her non disclosure policy.  Him sleeping with her and saying what he did gives Beckett more reinforcement and security that what she's doing won't have repercussions with him, he'll never give up on her, I'd have rather seen less blind commitment from him and more worry and angst from her that she's fucking up.  

 

This mini reunion may seem romantic and proof of their deep love for each other but it feels off to me, I feel like Castle's good nature is being taken advantage of here, may be not deliberately but that's how it comes over. It's like I just got thrown a shipper bone for being good and sticking with it. I'd rather he'd said to Beckett he wanted answers at that point rather than sex but of course that was never going to happen not yet at least. Still we got a decent love scene out of it and it felt more natural and sexy between them than it has for ages even if they can't quite give me well lit kisses. 

 

The weird thing was at the end when he saw the phone message I didn't get any real anger or upset there at all, Fillion needed to amp that up a bit he just looked slightly perplexed for a second but I was expecting more than that. May be he was wallowing in the afterglow of the moment lol but I hope this signals they're moving forward with this story because I won't be impressed if all we get is yet more time outs from the time outs. 

Edited November 17, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

Oh yeah watching the ending again and her casual "I'll see you around" when she left felt off but then she's just had great no strings attached sex so may be that's appropriate for the circumstances, similarly I didn't much care for the equally casual "hi Castle" in the precinct but this whole separation is beyond stupid and tone deaf in execution to me. 

 

I wonder if this "time in" as Hawley calls it means she's now pregnant? Lots of fans seem super excited by the idea.

https://twitter.com/RobHanning/status/666465010793603073

 

The side story of Espo and Ryan talking out their issues was a not very subtle way of comparing them to Castle and Beckett and their current situation. The therapy scene at the start simply reminded me that it's Beckett who should be getting therapy not the boys. I know they're trying to give the boys more screen time but so far it's been more miss than hit, they're making them look like squabbling little children nothing like the competent cops they used to be, a lot of the time it's silly stuff. I thought them yelling in the precinct at each other was unprofessional. I knew what was coming when Ryan saves Espo's life and all is forgiven but they're partners so that's what you do it shouldn't be a surprise to Espo that his partner has his back no matter what in this line of work, family or not. 

 

Congrats to the poster who called it on the other thread that they'd have a reunion later in the loft.

 

Operation Booyah. I hate them using the word time out constantly it's like they're trying to lessen the impact of what's happening here, the botched anniversary celebration in the precinct is symptomatic of that, she decides that dinner with her husband isn't a good idea in the circumstances but then has no strings sex instead. Okay that works much better.

 

No surprise to find the Locksat investigation and the drug tracing is going to "take a while" but at least Beckett knows after having sex with her husband and their chat she can take as long as she needs. SIgh

 

How is Alexis allowed to walk into that office without a pass? I can't get into my office without one, on one can, you need to be buzzed in if you're a visitor and don't have one or you've forgotten it.

 

Why do they always go on the run when confronted it always makes me laugh they're never going to get away.

 

Hayley's presence felt shoehorned in, I don't like the way she keeps turning up with apparent free access to the precinct and walking in and inserting herself into cases so casually with the NYPD and yet Beckett is happy to let her in. She was never that accommodating with Castle. It feels completely out of character for her to be so easy going with her. I don't understand what her role is on the show unless they had a burning desire for a new character to pop up to deliver sarcastic put downs and snark.

Edited November 17, 2015 by verdana

[cappuccino]

Booty call which they can use later to tell oops we forgot protection and hooray we're pregnant.

Is the wig gone or was sth wrong with my eyes?

I liked the episode. Well compared to what we got at the beginning, it's getting better on some parts.

The tiny lawyer woman was rediculous as the killer. She overpowered the guy and stabbed him that often? Please.

I really liked the surprise scene at the precinct - until they had Vikrim push the button and the over the top banner and confetti ruined it all.

So is Castle now going to think she's having an affair? I mean the message can mean anything.

At least the boys made up. Kinda makes me think they're going to do sth similar with caskett. There won't be any talk. A situation like that and all is forgotten. Or well oops I'm pregnant, take me back, i have to put my crusade on hold.

[Chado]

Look if Castle wants to get laid that's his business and he probably needs the release but I wish he'd not given that "hope" speech to Beckett which effectively gave her the green light to carry on as she's been doing for weeks now - which is ignoring their separation (it is NOT a time out) and refusing to budge on her non disclosure policy.  Him sleeping with her and saying what he did gives Beckett more reinforcement and security that what she's doing won't have repercussions with him, he'll never give up on her, I'd have rather seen less blind commitment from him and more worry and angst from her that she's fucking up. 

We can only hope that him seeing that text message changes things.

 

His reaction to it is hard to pinpoint. It looked like he was confused and then it was almost a 'here we go again' look of resignation that Beckett was involved in something again.

[verdana]

This artwork I've seen before but that scene with Kate on the bed reminded me of this, glad someone found it.

https://twitter.com/SandraG_1981/status/666477725541117953

 

Odd to see Beckett with painted nails in that spa scene, made a nice change of scene from the gloomy precinct and gave Stana something different to do but it didn't make any sense for the characters, since when do police captains find the time to go undercover? Have they no other women detectives at the 12th who could pitch in so they have to resort to bringing Hayley along? She's not even a cop. 

 

The whole idea of Beckett going undercover for anything given her position and fame is ridiculous at this point, they're not respecting the character or the history of the show they've created. 

 

They continue to emphasize Kate Beckett is MARRIED TO RICHARD CASTLE, as she gets immediately recognized in the sauna, yeah we know, everyone knows. My head hurts from the constant reminders of that fact due to the number of anvils hurled by way. I don't know why they keep ramming that point home with the audience, please stop it's stupid and annoying, the writers seem to be doing everything to undermine their own story. 

 

I really liked the surprise scene at the precinct - until they had Vikrim push the button and the over the top banner and confetti ruined it all.

 

Yeah I did too and I wasn't expecting to based on the promo photos and comments on the sneak peek, even the boys trying to put Beckett off going into the office, felt a bit like we got more of the old cohesion back with the boys, Castle and Beckett more together this episode but the ending with Vikram spoiled it. That guy really sucks the life out of any scene he's in, the less he's on screen the better. Neither of the two new cast members are doing much for me, I hope we see less of them in the second half of the season. 

 

So is Castle now going to think she's having an affair? I mean the message can mean anything.

 

Yeah that's what got me a bit, she could be banging someone else for all he knows and yet there's very little reaction to it. 

 

His reaction to it is hard to pinpoint. It looked like he was confused and then it was almost a 'here we go again' look of resignation that Beckett was involved in something again.

 

It's like the guy's on valium or something he's so passive about everything to do with this separation. I saw no change in strategy here at all from last week when I thought the whole idea of his talk with Slaughter (who told him to "quit asking permission") was to start looking pushing and looking into things not planning an anniversary celebration for a women who no longer lives with him and then having sex with her. Oh well my mistake. 

[turnitwayup]

Lol so predictable that Lindsay was the killer. I figure she would be it since Andrea Roth was in the sneak peek. Vikram's scenes are so boring that they really need to make him a bad guy that duped Beckett cause now I'm preferring Haley more that him. At least she's immune to Espo charms. So unprofessional that Espo and Ryan are fighting in front of the head law firm guy but the guy asking about who gets the house got a laugh from me.

 

I did like parts of the case. Like it involved the wealthy and that Castle knew someone that knew Keller. Castle using the conflict resolution tactics from his marriage with Gina to help Espo and Ryan's fight. The Hovertrax getting some use on screen since Castle's PI office continues to get tricked out. The anniversary surprise in the office with the balloon couldn't been sweet if not for this dumb separation and Locksat nonsense. The Caskett scenes would've been fun and kinda similar to Clear and Present Danger with less interruptus. You would've had the office surprise with plans for the anniversary, then a rain check cause they care so much about fixing Espo/Ryan's partnership then sex at the closing scene instead of it look like a booty call and secrets. Everyone and their mother recognizes that they're are married so this separation isn't fooling anybody unless the big bad is the dumbest secret organization ever.

 

So the therapist's office kinda looks similar to Dr. Burke's office. Must be those vertical blinds that props keeps using. Apparently Alexis never goes to class cause she still seems to be at the PI office a lot and has time to go undercover. The hair and wardrobe just ages her way too much that she looks more like Beckett's peer than a college student about to graduate.

 

Odd to see Beckett with painted nails in that spa scene, made a nice change of scene from the gloomy precinct and gave Stana something different to do but it didn't make any sense for the characters, since when do police captains find the time to go undercover? Have they no other women detectives at the 12th who could pitch in so they have to resort to bringing Hayley along? She's not even a cop. 

 

 This would've been the time to bring in Hastings and get an update on her writer boyfriend.

Edited November 17, 2015 by turnitwayup

[verdana]

I liked the "feed the birds" moment haven't seen that in a while.

 

Why do I suspect the writers already know the answer to what works. Castle and Beckett on screen together for decent periods of time with the boys in support and Caskett having sex which is a close to being a Christmas miracle lol. You can tell that Hanning is one of the better more experienced writers watching this and comparing to to some of the earlier episodes I've had to endure this season.

 

Castle and Beckett have banged but why do I feel kind of down about that last five minutes of that episode an hour or so later? Oh yeah this would have been so much better if the writers had never separated them. Argh!  This poorly thought out story has been dragging on way too long and I'm bored and frustrated with it and I wish Castle would have the wit and strength to ask Beckett what is going on. I don't see they had any honest discussion at the end, my expectations are clearly different to others. I also don't see the light at the end of the tunnel either that some feel sure is approaching. I find this story is not a healthy one for their relationship and I disagree that it will make them stronger than ever, it's made their relationship look fractured even close to toxic sometimes and unrelatable for large parts of it as I can't remotely imagine treating my partner like this in the name of "love" or him not questioning me. 

 

Much as I would craved more scenes like the one at the end in the past I feel a bit uncomfortable enjoying this one too much given the circumstances, felt like I just got screwed too, manipulated by the writers with multiple kisses and glimpses of Caskett skin.  Oh yeah I'm shallow like that. Heh

 

This would've been the time to bring in Hastings and get an update on her writer boyfriend.

 

 

Absolutely, now that's a character they could have introduced which would have made sense for the operation and I'd be way more invested in than Hayley. 

 

I enjoyed the “sting,” where Alexis wound up snapping pics of the lawyer’s files. Or maybe I just enjoy the “nose” gesture from The Sting.

 

Javy and Ryan all a-titter over Hayley and Kate’s towel-clad spa bust didn’t do either character any favors. Ugh.

These were from Matt's review at TV Line. 

 

It made me uncomfortable when Ryan and Espo were taking doing that, what with Ryan making comments about Beckett before I could do without it, leaves a bad taste. 

 

I was trying to think what the nose gesture came from and finally The Sting! I loved that movie, can't believe I didn't pick up on it. 

 

Alexis still dresses like shit, there's no basis for her wearing clothes like that at her age but then we're talking about Luke here. 

[verdana]

That was my take as well. i don't think he believes she's having an affair. And if he does, then they really have made Castle dumber than a box of rocks..

The way they've had Castle acting nothing would surprise me any more, I haven't a clue what this guy is thinking this season - if he does think about any of this seriously of course.

 

The promo for next week looks all kind of stupid and doesn't fill me with any confidence that Castle is going to be doing anything seriously to find out about Locksat. If he does uncover something it's going to be by pure accident.

 

Kinda makes me think they're going to do sth similar with caskett. There won't be any talk. A situation like that and all is forgotten. Or well oops I'm pregnant, take me back, i have to put my crusade on hold.

 

That's exactly how I see it panning out, their "time in" this week signalled to me that all the writers will do is have them fall into bed again probably after the hiatus, all will be forgiven they'll mention how they need to love and trust each other blah blah and Beckett's actions since the split won't be a point of serious discussion.

 

There are no signs from these writers that they see Beckett is doing anything wrong or that she will need to explain to Castle why she won't keep chasing her demons once it's all over with, the message I keep getting is Beckett is doing this all for the "love" of Castle so that makes it okay, she's suffering ongoing deep seated traumas which she has yet to get over and she's the one making the true emotional sacrifice here and I must feel sorry for her. 

Edited November 17, 2015 by verdana

[GoGiants]

I enjoyed this episode more than any other so far this season. I doubt I'll rewatch it.

I'll admit to liking the end scene for the visuals. I'm totally shallow. Lol. Agree about the need for better lighting but that's nothing new. Normally I'd be happy to see them together but not in such weird, unresolved and twisted ways. One brief scene can't undo the damage of S8. Minimal Loksat development continues to be the plague of S8 (actually Loksat is the plague of S8, oh wait never mind!). Tell us the story of Loksat etc. Don't dance around it for almost half a season without any progress, while simultaneously ignoring/destroying all character growth from the previous 7 seasons.

After last week, I too was hoping for a pushier Castle. Instead he turns around and gives her permission to carry on as usual for as long as she wants. His hope speech could've been a nice moment in a different storyline but just felt wrong here. This, among all the other glaring issues, cheapens the love scene and makes them both continue to look awful for a variety of reasons.

I really enjoyed Castle, Beckett, Ryan and Esposito working together for the bulk of the episode. That will always be vital to me. Castle and Beckett should be a team that works with Ryan and Esposito on the cases. That's the show! It shouldn't be that hard to make the formula work. It did for along time. It's sad that they seem desperate to do anything but what once made the show a pleasant diversion.

I find Hayley, Vikrum and Alexis PI to be pointless additions to the cast. I am with those rooting for Vikrum to be a villain, not just Tory 2.0.

Gross and unprofessional listening to Ryan and Esposito discuss Beckett and Hayley in their towels. One more lame attempt at frat boy humor I could've done without. Also one more way Ryan and Esposito look like fools in S8.

At this point, Alexis is the least of my concerns on the show. But I continue to find it crazy distracting that Castle is happy to have her sneaking into law offices and committing other minor crimes in the name of their PI/unofficial police work. He was a good father early on and I don't believe he would be ok with PI Alexis. In fact, it's hard to believe S1-4 Alexis would be down for this (S5-7 Alexis was all over the place for me, annoying, bratty, immature etc). If they had continued her development on a more natural path, I imagine she'd be on her way to med school or law school soon. She would be interning at that law firm, not breaking in to it!

[verdana]

When Kate lifted the lid off that small box he'd left on her desk I thought for a second oh my God it's another horrible naff bit of jewellery at which point I'd have said go ahead Beckett you can divorce him.

Edited November 17, 2015 by verdana

[GoGiants]

It looks like they are setting this up to not be an easy reconciliation, with Beckett's "a strong relationship can survive anything" followed by Castle's "no relationship can survive secrets."

I agree. Since the start of S8 they have seemingly worked tirelessly to make this break up or time out or whatever it is a huge mess.

They explicitly remind us of Beckett's bad choices, her many opportunities to quit the case, of Castle's lack of knowledge and strange win her back campaign. Tonight we heard their vastly differing perspectives on marriage. It's poisonous to the show and their relationship. They seem utterly dysfunctional to me at times.

Castle still doesn't know he has a step mother. That's a huge omission to me. He still doesn't know what caused the break up. He'll wait for her forever because their love is epic.

In S1-4, the subtext was sexy and fun at times. Sometimes frustrating and annoying when I was just ready for them to get together already. But now all of the secrets, lies and subtext between a married couple makes me want them to run, not walk to a counselor. That is not sexy or fun.

I agree with others that there will be no satisfactory resolution to this story. It will be swept under the rug with Castles disappearance. Only a matter now of guessing when Sleeper part 2 will appear. Sooner or later???

Edited November 17, 2015 by GoGiants

[Chado]

That's one thing I picked up from this episode too. How far apart Beckett and Castle actually are. Their entire view on marriage/relationships seems completely different from each other. Sad sad times.

[cappuccino]

That was my take as well. i don't think he believes she's having an affair. And if he does, then they really have made Castle dumber than a box of rocks..

Don't forget there is a new handsome attorney showing up next year.......

[Chado]

He's in the next episode isn't he?

 

The writers/showrunners are completely stupid if they try to play up some potential romance between him and Beckett. Beckett would look like the worst human being if she has a husband she's walked out on, whilst actively flirting with some attorney.

[cappuccino]

He's in the next episode isn't he?

 

The writers/showrunners are completely stupid if they try to play up some potential romance between him and Beckett. Beckett would look like the worst human being if she has a husband she's walked out on, whilst actively flirting with some attorney.

I don't think they have her flirting with him but I guess they will have some scenes together laughing or whatever and Castle is gonna see it and the wheels start turning in his head. Does he show up next week ? I don't remember. I just know he will show up at one point.

Maybe Castle confronts her about it and that hopefully leads to him getting more out of her.

[Lamb18]

I thought Castle would have recognized Vikram from the first episode as they guy on the run with Kate. I think Vikram's the bad guy, but not sure why he wants to use Kate except as a hide-out. I think Hayley will figure out what's going on.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Lamb18

[verdana]

Normally I'd be happy to see them together but not in such weird, unresolved and twisted ways. One brief scene can't undo the damage of S8. Minimal Loksat development continues to be the plague of S8 (actually Loksat is the plague of S8, oh wait never mind!). Tell us the story of Loksat etc. Don't dance around it for almost half a season without any progress, while simultaneously ignoring/destroying all character growth from the previous 7 seasons.

A fan last week said pretty much the same, the problem with this whole separation arc is they're not telling fans the Locksat story which is what they need to do. They've sat on their hands for weeks doing nothing with it, the writers have failed utterly in telling me the story they set up in the first two episodes.

Although some may feel best not to get the show bogged down with too much weekly drama and relationship angst because they don't watch for that and I whilst totally get that but the writers started something here. They were the ones who decided Beckett needed to go running off chasing demons again, they were the ones who decided to separate them for the flimsiest of reasons then made the characters (especially Castle) behave in ooc ways in a half arsed attempt to keep the show on the road and maintain some bizarre so called normality in order to keep the fans on side.

I don't think Castle deals with angst or serious drama well, it's not set up for it and that has been strongly reinforced by the new showrunners attempts at trying to keep all the balls in the air which they keep dropping. If they were determined to do this story they needed to go all the way, don't screw around keeping me waiting weeks for scraps. Have them split up properly, have him upset, have her upset, get him hunting for the truth, lets see her looking into this case properly. Instead they chickened out and gave me this half arsed story which tries to pretend its something its not with plot holes I can drive a Mack truck through. Having them talk about time outs constantly and hanging around each other like nothing much has changed in a feeble attempt to make things look better is insulting.

I completely agree that his 'hope' speech would have been great to hear in another story, it felt wrong here. Everything they do feels wrong at the moment because the characters are being forced into situations that don't make much sense.

I thought Castle would have recognized Vikram from the first episode as they guy on the run with Kate. I think Vikram's the bad guy, but not sure why he wants to use Kate except as a hide-out. I think Hayley will figure out what's going on.

Surely the penny should drop, he's seen Vikram already during a case where his wife went awol, he then just happens to still be working with Kate at the 12th.....why would that be? Castle at this point should be suspicious. It's laughable that he's this clueless. Vikram's presence alone should have alarm bells ringing loud and clear. Sigh Edited November 17, 2015 by verdana

[S55]

After last week, I too was hoping for a pushier Castle. Instead he turns around and gives her permission to carry on as usual for as long as she wants. His hope speech could've been a nice moment in a different storyline but just felt wrong here. This, among all the other glaring issues, cheapens the love scene and makes them both continue to look awful for a variety of reasons.

 

I would have loved a scene like the end a few seasons ago (season 5 would've been perfect IMO), but it just doesn't do anything for me now with where the story is right now. Given the current situation Castle and Beckett are in, it just felt unsatisfying for me to watch. 

 

This episode felt the closest to "normal" that the audience has seen all season. That said, it's not saying very much. 

[Guest]

I enjoyed the episode overall. Obviously I'm sick of the separation, but I'm glad that Ryan and Espo finally resolved their issues.  That was starting to really drag the show down even further.  I really hope Vikram is the big bad (I know it would be pretty hard to believe) because otherwise he is so pointless. 

[FlickerToAFlame]

I know the one scene doesn't make up for the crap season, but I do think it's the most romantic next to Always of the entire series. I love how Kate melts into the surprise kiss before remembering to pull back. NF and SK really do still have the chemistry.

[KaveDweller]

Surely the penny should drop, he's seen Vikram already during a case where his wife went awol, he then just happens to still be working with Kate at the 12th.....why would that be? Castle at this point should be suspicious. It's laughable that he's this clueless. Vikram's presence alone should have alarm bells ringing loud and clear. Sigh

Vikram has been working at the 12th since right after the two-parter, if Castle's been hanging around there he would have already known that. I don't think it was a surprise to see Vikram. They probably said that he didn't want to go back to DC after his whole team got killed and that Beckett gave him a job because she saw his skills while they were on the run.

But if Castle was going to question that it should have been back in episode 3.

[FlickerToAFlame]

Interesting post from someone on the ABC advisory panel (they should be asking about Vikram too, worst/most pointless character since Pi):

http://lovemesometv.tumblr.com/post/133400756830/im-a-member-of-the-abc-studios-advisory-panel

[verdana]

It looks like they are setting this up to not be an easy reconciliation, with Beckett's "a strong relationship can survive anything" followed by Castle's "no relationship can survive secrets."

 

Based on Castle's overwhelmingly faith in Beckett and latest speech I can see the reconciliation being relatively easy with any upset soon dispersed. Granted it should be difficult if they're going to try and make this remotely plausible and satisfying but I can see the writers preferring to move on to other things involving the case or Castle's disappearance. 

 

They explicitly remind us of Beckett's bad choices, her many opportunities to quit the case, of Castle's lack of knowledge and strange win her back campaign. Tonight we heard their vastly differing perspectives on marriage. It's poisonous to the show and their relationship. They seem utterly dysfunctional to me at times.

 

There was no reunion, no understanding has been achieved between them other than they can have sex no harm done during a time out, no forward progression has been made with the Locksat investigation - Kate remains stymied and unable to see that she shouldn't be stalling with Castle any longer. Meanwhile Castle only found out that something might be up because she left her phone around, there's no sign she's willing to trust or share anything with him other than her body, his behaviour given his "no relationship can survive secrets" makes sense but his actions each week do not.

 

Castle has been divorced twice, Meredith cheated on him and with Gina he seems to have had a rather emotionally empty marriage more like a business relationship than anything else, those experiences should have deeply scarred him but his inability to press his third wife on her actions when walking out on him don't make a blind bit of sense. The only way this story works is for Castle to be constantly OOC which makes his lack of interest in what Beckett is doing and unwillingness to press her for answers even more laughable.  At least Beckett's closed off behaviour is more in keeping with the character at a stretch.

 

What's frustrating is they've wasted over a quarter of the season on this separation arc with no clear end in sight with only the faint hope that something positive might happen before the Christmas hiatus.  That's a waste of a lot of good screen time and more worryingly the ratings have gone on the slide too, how much was that to do with the story? Guess we shall never know but it can't have helped. 

 

I know the one scene doesn't make up for the crap season, but I do think it's the most romantic next to Always of the entire series.

 

 

I know it's subjective but Always and the aftermath in After the Storm has a special place in my heart because of the circumstances. It was their first time together, it was romantic, desperate, hot, tender, sweet and frantic with them both emotionally vulnerable, open and honest with each other. That moment will always be tops for me and it was completely satisfying, if the circumstances of the story has been different here I'd have included it alongside Murder He Wrote as a decent feel good romance scene to add to a very slender list heh.   

Edited November 17, 2015 by verdana

[Cyranetta]

 

Gross and unprofessional listening to Ryan and Esposito discuss Beckett and Hayley in their towels. One more lame attempt at frat boy humor I could've done without.

The other bit of frat boy humor that I found pretty tasteless was when Beckett and Hayley finally caught up with what's-her-face to remove the towel, the hands landing on the breast area of the mannequin.

 

My first reaction to the ep was to be glad that the ep didnt leave me angry, but "all is not forgiven".

[verdana]

Interesting post from someone on the ABC advisory panel (they should be asking about Vikram too, worst/most pointless character since Pi):

http://lovemesometv.tumblr.com/post/133400756830/im-a-member-of-the-abc-studios-advisory-panel

Thanks for the link. I wonder if the TPTB really do pay attention? I fear not as much as some hope. Halwideman said those type of surveys are more a sop to the fans to make them believe someone is listening when they'll do their own thing in any case. Still doesn't hurt, if you don't say anything when you have a chance to make it count, seems a waste of an opportunity. 

 

There are far more questions than usual for Castle this morning. Like how we feel about Hayley and Alexis. How we feel about the break-up and if it has delayed us viewing the episode. What we like about the Caskett relationship. What moments worked between them in the episode.

 

If I was on that panel, I'd be telling them I don't care a fig about Hayley and Alexis, what special bond do they because I've missed it. The break up is the worst piece of contrived storytelling I've had to suffer in quite some considerable time and the only way to fix it is for the writers to have another Bobby Ewing out of the shower moment so I can forget it ever happened.  What do I like about the Caskett relationship? Stana and Nathan's unique chemistry together when playing Castle and Beckett it's everything and the only reason I continue to watch. What moments worked between them in the episode? Any time they're on screen together pretty much which in this episode seemed a lot more than the normal starvation rations hence it was far more enjoyable. What sells the show to your audience is pretty obvious I would have thought - Caskett togetherness. 

Edited November 17, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

At this point, Alexis is the least of my concerns on the show. But I continue to find it crazy distracting that Castle is happy to have her sneaking into law offices and committing other minor crimes in the name of their PI/unofficial police work. He was a good father early on and I don't believe he would be ok with PI Alexis. In fact, it's hard to believe S1-4 Alexis would be down for this (S5-7 Alexis was all over the place for me, annoying, bratty, immature etc). If they had continued her development on a more natural path, I imagine she'd be on her way to med school or law school soon. She would be interning at that law firm, not breaking in to it!

Separation aside, how they've used Alexis is one of the main problems I've had with the writing this season, the way they've shoehorned her into the show as his assistant feels like desperation on the part of the writers not organic character growth for either father or daughter. I can't understand how he's happy to let his only child get involved in this seedy and often dangerous PI business, it does not compute.  Is this really the career Alexis envisaged for herself when she was at college and interning with Lanie? I don't see that either, it would have been better to reduce Molly's appearances and send her back to college or let Lanie have her back, give Tamala something to do. 

[verdana]

This picture with the cake made me laugh so hard, it's true.

 

dear caskett

[tljgator]

I came in to see what y'all had to say to decide if I should watch. I am on the ABC Studio Panel (and on the more specific, super-special Castle panel, lol), so if there are extra questions, I guess I'll watch tonight and answer.  I was trying to remember why the "time out" stuff you guys mentioned sounded familiar, and aside from the writers trying to avoid saying they're "on a break" (TM Friends), I seem to recall a series of fanfic stories in which Castle & Beckett would text each other "time out" so they could meet up and it wouldn't impact their normal, everyday interactions, etc. (I very well could be misremembering that, though).  Anyhoo, more later after I watch and do the poll...

[371012]

Thx, just did the poll at lunch!

[pcta]

You know what ticked me off most about this episode? Beckett's response when the confetti and banner finally fell. She looked superciliously bored. Why in the name of all that is holy would someone with such I stick up the derrière hook up with someone so playful? Their relationship makes no sense to me.

[verdana]

Booty call which they can use later to tell oops we forgot protection and hooray we're pregnant.

 

 

I don't understand how some fans on tumblr and twitter seem desperate for her to get pregnant after this, as if that would solve all their issues and Beckett would naturally drop her quest and immediately embrace motherhood. Then fans can start to dream about adorable Caskett babies and start thinking of names. Have these people stopped to think they would be bringing a child into the world whilst separated when the mother is a woman who is chasing her demons on a crusade for justice and the father is so lacking backbone I'm surprised he can stand up straight these days.  

 

As a family they also tend to get kidnapped a lot so they might not be around to take care of any child they do have. Martha might have to hold the fort.