Captain America and the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[Cranberry]

Word is that the show ties in with Captain America: The Winter Soldier in a much bigger way than it did with Thor: The Dark World. This week's episode of AoS was set pre-movie (that incident that Sitwell got called away to is in the film), while the remaining episodes will apparently be affected by the movie's events. This is the place to discuss how the movie influences the TV show.

Now that the movie is in wide release, you can discuss it in this thread without having to spoiler-font your posts. AoS spoilers are also fine in this thread, so proceed with caution!

[Kromm]

Word is that the show ties in with Captain America: The Winter Soldier in a bigger way than Thor: The Dark World did. This week's episode of AoS was set pre-movie, while the remaining episodes will be set post-movie. This is the place to discuss how the movie influences the TV show.

What's the best way to do this? I tagged the thread with the spoilers tag, so shall we say that movie spoilers within posts don't have to be tagged, but we should spoiler-font any AoS spoilers? Speculation is fine untagged, of course.

We were left on a cliffhanger. I don't think that timing works out (this last episode being before and the next after).  For that to be true we'd have to have a time jump at the beginning of the next episode and totally go PAST what we were told onscreen was a situation where most of our characters were imminently going to be killed.  Which they won't be of course, given there's no show then, but simply jumping past it would completely negate there even BEING that cliffhanger structure to the end of that episode in the first place.

[Cranberry]

Here's a Forbes article about the tie-in, and here's a HitFix one. You may be right, though -- I could have sworn that the producers said during the PaleyFest panel that the April 8 episode picks up after the film, but I'm not positive.

From Zap2It:

"Captain America: The Winter Soldier" is integral to this series. So much so that Loeb mentioned fans will want to watch the April 1 episode, catch "Cap 2" in theaters opening weekend and then return to "Agents of SHIELD" on April 8 no less than four times during his time on stage. How that film affects the series is yet unclear, but the cast and crew were putting much more stress on catching this movie opening weekend than they did "Thor: The Dark World."

[Kromm]

That doesn't quite say that April 1 is set before and April 8 is set after.  It seems instead to imply to me that something is referenced on April 1sts episode that is clarified by the movie--so that when you tune in on April 8th you have extra info.

[Cranberry]

Yeah, I don't know if anyone's stated it explicitly. Here's an article from CTV:

At the Paley Fest panel, Marvel TV head Jeph Loeb had alluded to the fact that "End of the Beginning" will tie in to the film, but more importantly, the movie will have an effect on the following episode titled "Turn, Turn, Turn" which airs April 8 at 8/7C on CTV.

And The Hollywood Reporter:

The showrunners did divulge a few tidbits about the season’s remaining seven episodes: Paxton will again appear, as will Patton Oswalt. And in response to a question about movie tie-ins, Loeb urged fans not to miss the April 8 episode, which airs four days after Captain America: The Winter Soldier opens in theaters: “It would not surprise anyone if things that happen in the movie you mentioned are in the show we’re talking about. I wouldn’t miss it if I were you.”

I wish I could rewatch that panel! But in any case, the producers seem to be insisting that the best order for viewing purposes will be April 1 ep, movie, April 8 ep.

[Kromm]

Right.  See that quote doesn't necessitate when anything is set.  It's all about reveals.  Something is revealed in the movie which explains something we see on the show.  That doesn't mean it happens EITHER before or after ANY episode.  Just that you need that info on the 8th and that the movie provides it.

It could be from a flashback to WWII for all we know.  Or something from the Cold War when Cap is frozen and The Winter Soldier mucking about. Or in the future with implications for something we see on the show in the movie's past.  It could be any number of things.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Kromm

[Cranberry]

Yes, I acknowledged that. (And I do actually know how the movie affects the show thanks to reading spoilers from people who have already seen it, but I'm not going to post about the movie's content until after it opens in North America/after I've seen it myself.)

[Kromm]

Hmm.  It could even be at the END of the movie in the teaser for the next Marvel movie.  That occurs to me because the Marvel movies are getting more "galactic" in setting, and Agents of SHIELD's current big secret is about an alien who's blood was used.

[ApathyMonger]

Having seen the movie, I assume we'll see an episode or two that take place during the movie (which happens over a few days). Probably the finale.

It'll be very difficult for them to do it so that someone who watches AoS but is waiting on the DVD for Winter Soldier to remain unspoiled. I wonder how many weeks grace they'll give people to get to the cinema.

[HistoryGirl]

This article is a non-spoilery Captain America review from someone that's been watching AOS.  From the sounds of it, AOS is heavily connected to Captain America and that every episode leading up to April 1st's episode is the lead in to Captain America. I gotta say that that review made me make a point to see Cap America on opening weekend, when I hadn't intended on it before. 

Cranberry, I would say this whole thread is a spoiler to Captain America.  I think it would get too complicated having people spoil tag some things when it sounds like the whole film is linked with AOS. 

[ApathyMonger]

Hmm, I don't know if I agree with that review; I think he's seeing some things that aren't there. It should be noted that the movie was filmed before work on the show began, so anything that seems to come from the show (and I don't think there's much) is reverse-engineered.

It also means that, for instance, there's no mention in the movie of Coulson being alive, as they probably hadn't decided to bring him back when the movie was written.

[myril]

Don't think that the review implied anything in the movie coming from the show, but if you keep what happened on the show in mind and watch the movie, you might have a few thoughts or even aha-moments. Or if you (re-) watch the show from the beginning after you've seen the movie, one might see in some things more layers than before. Of course nothing came from the show to the movie, but they worked in what the movie events reveal eventually early on. Or one can start to wonder and ask some different questions than we have so far. Although I suspected something early on, it was just, let's say, kinda there. Different from the reviewer I think it's not just about the most recent episodes, it goes back to the beginning. What happened so far was explained and making some sense without the events from the movie, but if you look at the events of the movie they may make a bit of different sense.

And maybe I make no sense at all right now to people having not watched the movie yet. LOL

But yes, there are direct and indirect tie-ins to the movie already in the episode of April 1st. I can confirm that much at this point.

Am curious what they will make of it in the show now. I guess one doesn't have to watch the movie before next episode, but I had the chance to, and guess it is slightly more fun this way.

Edited April 2, 2014 by katusch

[Cranberry]

I realize that the movie had a lot of preview screenings here in North America and has also opened internationally already, so maybe people could talk about the movie in-depth now, but spoiler-tag it, and then we can all talk openly once it's playing in North America on Friday. Is that too confusing, or will that work? Or I can edit my first post to say that movie spoilers are fair game at any time and you can all go to town; doesn't matter to me!

I think I'll be seeing it on Monday night -- I avoid weekend movie theater crowds!

[ApathyMonger]

Okay, so speculation based on spoilers:

Who do we think will turn out to be HYDRA agents? Paxton seems the most likely, though his sidekick could probably go either way. I'm guessing sidekick'll turn out to be a good guy and Paxton evil. Or maybe vice-versa.

Of course, the big question for the series coming out of the movie is

What the hell will it be in S2? Can't really be Agents of SHIELD if there's no more SHIELD. I guess the team will end up going underground hunting HYDRA cells and such.

The problem with that is that HYDRA will obviously still be a thing once Avengers 2 comes around, so they couldn't be too succesful. Hmm.

Edited April 2, 2014 by ApathyMonger

[FannishInc]

Hmm, I don't know if I agree with that review; I think he's seeing some things that aren't there. It should be noted that the movie was filmed before work on the show began, so anything that seems to come from the show (and I don't think there's much) is reverse-engineered.

It also means that, for instance, there's no mention in the movie of Coulson being alive, as they probably hadn't decided to bring him back when the movie was written.

They have gone on to post some VERY SPOILERY STUFF that talks about the major connections between the show and the movie http://marveltv.org/forums/movies-other-tv-shows/captain-america-the-winter-solider-spoilers-for-movie-aos-ep-16

Edited April 3, 2014 by FannishInc

[Lisin]

I saw the movie last night. These are my theories. My current theory is that the algorithm/Zola is the clairvoyant and that the tie in is going to be our SHIELD team finding out about the events of the movie due to some other hydra agents trying to take them down or something. I am also going to guess that Season 2 would be them hunting down Hydra in a more underground way and I think that would be more interesting and fun than anything we've seen so far.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Saw it this afternoon, and here's a couple of thoughts/questions:

How can they keep the title Marvel's AoS if SHIELD is gone, and what's left needs to be purged of Hydra first before they go hunting for secret Hydra labs all over the world ?  

Who will be funding the Bus because I'm pretty sure it's not cheap with all the tech onboard and fuel costs, let alone all the facilities like the Hub, the Fridge, the Slingshot, the various SHIELD Hogwarts campuses, the Sandbox, the Zentrum, the recently demolished Triskelion in D.C., etc.  No SHIELD organization anymore, that means no one is paying those bills either.

Pretty much makes Skye's badge worthless and nullfies her little ceremony last episode (Cap 2 is worth it just for that -- oh look you finally made the team, too bad the league closed up shop because it was infested with really bad guys).

I'd bet that Zola algorithm has backups all over the place (it's synced to the cloud, bitches, you'll never catch me).

Is Coulson going to go all Dylan Hunt and restore the SHIELD to its former glory (hears hoping it doesn't take 304 years) ?

Will next season be titled Marvel's AoH (Agents of HAMMER) ?

With ALL the Hydra  and SHIELD info spread to the web (oh look, it's trending) will Skye finally be able to see the remaining docs on her 0-8-4ness ?

ETA: Removed spoiler tags

Edited April 4, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Cranberry]

Because the movie's in wide release now, you no longer have to spoiler-font your posts about it. I'll edit the first post just to make sure that people understand they'll see movie spoilers in this thread. Thanks!

[Grammaeryn]

I'd like to discuss possible fallout from Captain America, The Winter Soldier:

1. Since Nick Fury has suspected SHIELD has been compromised, do you think the TV team was supposed to be his trusted team outside SHIELD influence?
2. Could the Guest House basically be a Hydra facility?  If yes, it was vaguely morally okay for the guards to be killed.  
3. Also, SItwell NOOO!
4. Do you think Coulson was brought back so Hydra could experiment with the blue guy's blood or was it legitimately Nick Fury needing him back?
5. Who on the show do you think is Hydra? Garrett and Hand are my guesses.  I'd be sad for Simmons if it's Triplett.

The movie is so good, I can't wait for Tuesday's episode! Yeah, yeah I know it could be a complete shit-show but a girl can dream, right?

Edited April 4, 2014 by Grammaeryn

[Kaoteek]

AoS has taught me one thing, so far : to lower my expectations.

And just as the tie-in with Thor ended up laughably disappointing, I'm guessing the tie-ins with Cap Am will be, for the next couple of episodes, very minimal. If only because the cast learned about those events at the premiere, and not weeks ago when they were shooting the eps.

Maybe we'll have a post-credits scene with Coulson learning about Fury's "death", or something like that, but the fallout of SHIELD being taken down won't have any real impact of AoS until the end of the season, imo.

As for who's with Hydra on the show, well... the only one whose scenes haven't been littered with "I am a bad guy" anvils is Bill Paxton... Hand is too obvious to be really evil, she's just pissed off at Coulson's disregard for protocol.

[ApathyMonger]

Hand is too obvious to be really evil, she's just pissed off at Coulson's disregard for protocol.

So she ordered everyone on board the plane killed? You must be a real stickler for protocol.

[Kaoteek]

So she ordered everyone on board the plane killed? You must be a real stickler for protocol.

Except she didn't. Not really. She said she wanted them "taken out", which can easily be retconned/translated as "tazed & placed into custody". And I fully expect that's the cheap way they're gonna do it.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Kaoteek

[HistoryGirl]

Just got back from seeing Captain America and... I'm freaking out! (not an understatement)

Did not see Sitwell's double cross coming. Totally shocked me. I was literally sitting agape in the theatres saying to my friend "Sitwell's in AOS!  Sitwell. Is. In. AOS." 

I assumed that Hand is Hydra.  Best guess is that Garrett is too.  I think Tripplett is maybe clean only because my guess is that he's the one to save Simmons from the Hub when it all goes to hell (as semi-hinted at in that Marvel maze poster they released today)

What I'm most curious about is what this means for the show. Clearly they (rightfully) distrust each other.  I'm assuming (probably correctly) that they're all pro-SHIELD/Fury people, but to them I bet that there's a lot of "are you Hydra?" that will be going on. 

Also, dendrotoxin was name checked a few times, so that was pretty cool to see since it's been with AOS since the beginning. 

While I'm at it, Natasha released all the SHIELD agents' files right?  So that means that everything on our team has been released to the public for public consumption, right? 

ETA: Am i right to assume that the Clairvoyant isn't actually one particular person, but the ZOLA algorithm and Hydra-moles in SHIELD? 

Edited April 5, 2014 by HistoryGirl

[Lisin]

Am i right to assume that the Clairvoyant isn't actually one particular person, but the ZOLA algorithm and Hydra-moles in SHIELD?

That's what I'm thinking. I'm also thinking that May's secret line was a direct line to Nick Fury.

[Kaoteek]

While I'm at it, Natasha released all the SHIELD agents' files right?  So that means that everything on our team has been released to the public for public consumption, right? 

 

Yeah, with a little bit of luck, that will allow for some progression on Skye's case, on Coulson's case, and maybe some more background on May & co. Let's hope so.

That's what I'm thinking. I'm also thinking that May's secret line was a direct line to Nick Fury.

Yeah, that seems pretty obvious, indeed. Fury wasn't gonna let Coulson alone on that ithout anyone to keep an eye on him.

As for "The Clairvoyant", I'd be enclined to think that indeed, it's Zola & Hydra... but then, where does that leave Centipede (I guess a research dvision of Hydra, or something, but it would have worked better had it been just namechecked in the movie at some point) ? And that would make another recurring mystery from the show with a lack of a satisfying resolution... just saying "there's no Clairvoyant, it's just a bunch of infiltrated moles" means instead of a Big Bad, we'll have plenty of middle management baddies (and BIll Paxton). Not as satisfying, imo.

[HistoryGirl]

I wondered about Deathlok too.  But I thought that the Winter Soldier was very Deathlok-ish so I do suspect that they're connected as part of the same Hydra experiment. Winter Soldier could be "version 1" and Deathlok "version 2" because we did catch a glimpse of Bucky missing his arm, just like Mike without his legs and arm(s?).  And Mike did look to be in a bunker location like the Hydra hideaway.  And I could also see Raina as a Hydra lackey. 

Wasn't Centipede the Super Soldier experiment which was trying to find ways to replicate Steve Rogers' results? It would seem to me that Centipede was Hydra's way of amassing an army-- thus explaining Georges Batroc's appearance and skills/strength.  Winter Soldier and Deathlok are seemingly of a different experiment in light of their missing limbs. 

[Kaoteek]

The more I'm thinking about it, the less I'm sure AoS really coordinated with CA:WS.

According to Captain America 2, Shield is Hydra. Hydra is everywhere, has access to everything inside Shield, except maybe a couple of files locked by Fury. Before AoS began, Hydra should have already known everything about Coulson's resurrection, and Tahiti.

But Centipede didn't seem to, despite the Clairvoyant. Which either means that Centipede =/= Hydra, or that Coulson's secret was in a special file that almighty Hydra couldn't access (which seems kind of doubtful, since Pierce didn't seem to have any problem getting into Fury's special files in the movie).

And even then, with Black Widow uploading Shield's files onto the web, Centipede now know everything they wanted to know. So I guess the Clairvoyant has won, and Shield sucks. As usual.

But where does the show go from here ?

Edited April 5, 2014 by Kaoteek

[myril]

The more I'm thinking about it, the less I'm sure AoS really coordinated with CA:WS.

According to Captain America 2, Shield is Hydra. Hydra is everywhere, has access to everything inside Shield, except maybe a couple of files locked by Fury. Before AoS began, Hydra should have already known everything about Coulson's resurrection, and Tahiti.

But Centipede didn't seem to, despite the Clairvoyant. Which either means that Centipede =/= Hydra, or that Coulson's secret was in a special file that almighty Hydra couldn't access (which seems kind of doubtful, since Pierce didn't seem to have any problem getting into Fury's special files in the movie).

And even then, with Black Widow uploading Shield's files onto the web, Centipede now know everything they wanted to know. So I guess the Clairvoyant has won, and Shield sucks. As usual.

But where does the show go from here ?

If SHIELD had everything digitalized and easy to put as a packet on the web then it very much deserved to be liquidated. I doubt that. Found this we put the files on the web and the secrets are out in the open plot rather hilarious anyway. Hope they had some kind of Wikileaks portal set up to give people easy access, otherwise the data will be mostly wasted in the big cloud, happy feeding ground for other intelligence organisations and some private companies.

Coulson handed Fitz and Simmons a huge volume of paper as the file about what was done to him. Now that might have been just to show, it's a big file, but think it pretty much only existed on paper, and not even in that file was the truth. Somehow made me think of the Stasi documents, which were shredded and they still work to put them back together, and there are still a number of informands eventually unkown. Okay, Stasi was 20 years ago, but I am pretty sure intelligence agencies know a bit about keeping the really important stuff pretty much offline.

Neverthless, HYDRA, Zola / the Clairvoyant (it sounded to me like Zola was the Clairvoyant, particular after the computer speaking scene) kinda won and SHIELD sucks. And Captain America is a sweet idealistic guy but hilariously naive if it comes to politics and long term tactics. The typical klischee of a good soldier. The hero to clean up with a flick of his strong arm, believing, everything will be now better. Sure. Not. The scene with Black Widow facing a committee was quite interesting, showing nicely the arrogance of superheros. Hey, you can't put us away, because you still need us, and now that we've crippled your stupid organisation you will even more, hehe. Superhero idiots. And the worst: Black Widow should know better than that, she and Fury and Hill at least should.

I see some weaknesses in the story of the movie and its execution, but will be interesting how they handle that not just on the show but all of the MCU.

Right, it looks like SHIELD is gone, but I am not sure if it is, what really is happening.

There is the Fridge for example, and somehow someone better make sure that this is kept running, otherwise they will soon have a huge problem with dangerous people and things roaming more or less free or be free to use by whoever comes first. So not a good idea (although for drama it looks like honey pot, so many new stories to tell). There a plenty of facilities and SHIELD property around, someone has to adminster that at least as long until it's taken over in some way or another.

SHIELD was not just some tiny organisation with maybe a few hundred employees, looked to me they were huge, that means thousands of employees all over the world. You don't liquidate that with the push of a button. I know, the movie implied very much that they have to go and find a new job, Hill applying at Stark Industries (was she doing a lie detector test? Looked like it) and Sharon Carter with the CIA.

Liquidating all of SHIELD because some secrets are out? What a waste of public money.

But does anyone really think that no one will try to rebuild SHIELD or build a new organisation, something alike? I am not even convinced it's all gone for the moment. There might be some turmoil following, some times of uncertainty, reorganisation. But there is all this crazy technology, there are strange things in this world, there are threats from other worlds (now twice encountered big time in the movies and rather publicly), and don't think letting just military and some other 3-letter agencies deal with it will be any good idea either. Maybe Stark now takes lead (although I am no fan of private taking over, I am a fan of rules, clear limits and elections if it comes to that, separation of powers, bit bureaucratic maybe, but still the best thing we have). And Fury might have some plan B anyway.

Team Coulson? Hard to imagine they can keep the bus even if they somehow manage to stay together as team despite reorganisation or having to go to another agency or whatever. On the other hand it's not like anyone ever seems to worry how the superheroes and superagents manage to have enough for a living and a lot more to get all the gadgets and travel around. But there always is somewhere Stark to back up, right. Or government. Budget cuts? Never heard of (or think maybe in Stargate they did). If you're some superperson you just don't have to worry about such tiny details of everyday life ;) It could be fun if they would have to improvise a bit for a while without all hightech at hand. But guessing they will keep the bus, they still will need to travel fast and around the world at times. Maybe they're grounded for a few episodes, but latest for another season they will have to be very mobile again.

It might be somewhat like in Nikita. HYDRA infiltrated SHIELD is gone, but someone has to handle things, so take over. HYDRA isn't gone, or a new head ready to emerge already, as least everyone sitting through the end credits of the movie knows that (how disrespectful to cast and crew to run out of the theater the moment the big action is done, and some theaters start even cleaning up too early, the next crowd at the door ready to take seat; Philistines).

So think, Team Coulson will stay around, become part of a SHIELD reboot in some way, going on to clean up the mess the superheroes like to leave behind.

[HistoryGirl]

But does anyone really think that no one will try to rebuild SHIELD or build a new organisation, something alike? I am not even convinced it's all gone for the moment. There might be some turmoil following, some times of uncertainty, reorganisation. But there is all this crazy technology, there are strange things in this world, there are threats from other worlds (now twice encountered big time in the movies and rather publicly), and don't think letting just military and some other 3-letter agencies deal with it will be any good idea either. Maybe Stark now takes lead (although I am no fan of private taking over, I am a fan of rules, clear limits and elections if it comes to that, separation of powers, bit bureaucratic maybe, but still the best thing we have). And Fury might have some plan B anyway.

 

According to this the Triskelion (and SHIELD) was temporarily relocated to Stark Industries in the comic world. I wonder if Maria Hill (as presumably the new Director of SHIELD) is just running SHIELD out of Stark Industries while Triskelion is rebuilt.  Perhaps it was just a shout out to the comic book fans who would get that reference? 

Does the world think that Captain America is dead? 

There is the Fridge for example, and somehow someone better make sure that this is kept running, otherwise they will soon have a huge problem with dangerous people and things roaming more or less free or be free to use by whoever comes first.

 

I think you found the monster of the week for AOS. 

What I'm interested in is where Victoria Hand stands in all this.  Has the Hub fallen like Triskelion?  Is the Hub actually Triskelion or are they two different locations?  If Simmons is at the Hub, is she in danger? 

Speaking of Simmons, anyone else rather happy she'd shot Sitwell with the night-night gun when she did? (It does put an interesting spin on Sitwell's interest in what she was doing at the panel though, doesn't it?) 

[Kaoteek]

If Hand is anything like what I remember of her comic-book counterpart, she's just really a right wing, all means necessary, take no prisoners & protect America type who values order & authority above else, but fights the good fight nonetheless. She clashes with Cap & other Shield agents re:her methods, but in the end, she's not a baddie. And I'm guessing that's what the Whedons are doing right now : pretend she's a traitor, write her like an antagonist, and "surprise" everyone whe in fact she ends up fighting alongside Coulson, whereas the guy (Garrett) who has been helping Coulson betrays him.

(also, I'm not sure the Whedons would turn one of the few openly gay characters in the MCU evil)

Edited April 5, 2014 by Kaoteek

[ApathyMonger]

If Hand is anything like what I remember of her comic-book counterpart, she's just really a right wing, all means necessary, take no prisoners & protect America type who values order & authority above else, but fights the good fight nonetheless. She clashes with Cap & other Shield agents re:her methods, but in the end, she's not a baddie. And I'm guessing that's what the Whedons are doing right now : pretend she's a traitor, write her like an antagonist, and "surprise" everyone whe in fact she ends up fighting alongside Coulson, whereas the guy (Garrett) who has been helping Coulson betrays him.

(also, I'm not sure the Whedons would turn one of the few openly gay characters in the MCU evil)

Well, she was a bad guy for most of her time in the comics, though it was eventually revealed that she was a triple agent working for Cap. I've no idea if that was planned from the start, but I'd be surprised.

[Kaoteek]

Hmm, IIRC (but I haven't read those for years, so I might be wrong) she first was "a bad guy" when she was head of HAMMER, working for Norman Osborn, but she always believed, back then, that the work that she was doing was for the good of America/the world, which is why Captain America ended up trusting her & using her as a triple agent for the rest of her career.

It would fit with this incarnation of the character & I can see the show going that way : she does bad things for the Shield (hunt Coulson & co, and so on), she's cold, abrasive, but in the end, she has been duped by her higher-ups, and believed she was doing the right thing, so when Cap announces that Shield is corrupt, she'll switch sides and help Coulson. Or something like that.

[Jediknight]

As for "The Clairvoyant", I'd be enclined to think that indeed, it's Zola & Hydra... but then, where does that leave Centipede (I guess a research dvision of Hydra, or something, but it would have worked better had it been just namechecked in the movie at some point) ?

Zola's got to be The Clairvoyant.  As for Centipede, it could be AIM.  AIM's going to be on the show one way or another, doesn't matter if they're Centipede or Rising Tide, but they've got to be on the show.

[HistoryGirl]

Zola's got to be The Clairvoyant.  As for Centipede, it could be AIM.  AIM's going to be on the show one way or another, doesn't matter if they're Centipede or Rising Tide, but they've got to be on the show.

Hydra, Centipede and AIM were all name checked in "Seeds" as different organizations.  I wonder if SHIELD believed them to be separate or if Centipede is really Hydra.  (It would seem that AIM already has an independent-from-Hydra history).

[MSquared]

I saw WS yesterday and have a few theories of my own.

 

1.  Nick demanded Coulson be brought back to life more for the reason that, besides Hill, Coulson was the only other person Fury trusted implicitly.  Remember in Avengers, he told them Coulson was his right hand.  He didn't even seem to trust Natasha or Steve as much.  And, I think, going with that, Hydra wanted to know why and how Coulson was right back to life and Fury didn't trust his superiors with even that information.

2.  The Clairvoyant  is Zola.  He had access to everything on the agents (except Coulson's "recovery") and that was how he knew all.  Also, the Clairvoyant has top level security.  So did Zola after the war.  (I also think this will be tying into AVengers: Age of Ultron).  

3.  May may have been unwittingly feeding intel to Hydra.  When she was being accused of treachery, even she seemed confused by the accusations.  

4.  I think everyone on the Bus is pro-SHIELD.  (I don't want to think of FitzSimmons as baddies!)  The only one I could see as turned is Ward, as he shot the Clairvoyant.  And he could have been brainwashed, as they seemed to be doing to Barnes, wherein he was being confused by what he remembered and what he was being told.  

[HistoryGirl]

1.  Nick demanded Coulson be brought back to life more for the reason that, besides Hill, Coulson was the only other person Fury trusted implicitly.  Remember in Avengers, he told them Coulson was his right hand.  He didn't even seem to trust Natasha or Steve as much.  And, I think, going with that, Hydra wanted to know why and how Coulson was right back to life and Fury didn't trust his superiors with even that information.

ABC released 2 sneak peeks for Tuesday's episode.

In one May admits that she's got a direct line to Fury. So does Fury trust May as well as Coulson or more than Coulson?  Also, in the other one it seems to suggest that Hydra was trying to take out Garrett. (Unless that's SHIELD trying to take out Garrett because they know he's a Hydra operative and it's a diversion for the viewer.)

 Right now I think only Coulson and Skye are "clear" of being Hydra operatives. I highly doubt it's anyone on the team, but I suspect even Simmons will come under fire because she was conveniently removed from the Bus before it all went down. The sneak peek even has them

pointing fingers at Fitz

. 

[Jediknight]

Hydra, Centipede and AIM were all name checked in "Seeds" as different organizations.  I wonder if SHIELD believed them to be separate or if Centipede is really Hydra.  (It would seem that AIM already has an independent-from-Hydra history).

I think SHIELD vastly underestimated HYDRA and everything that came from it.  That could be because of HYDRA's infiltration and making sure  that SHIELD didn't know.

The only one I can see on the team not being pro-SHIELD is Ward.  Everyone else is safe.

And some spec from the movie.  Since she's a major character, but didn't have a big role in the movie, I'm guessing Sharon is popping up a couple of times, at least next season.

[Lisin]

This has nothing to do with the show, but I wanted to share this easter egg that someone else pointed me to. Hilarious. I didn't notice it when I was watching because I was like "whatever, Fury's alive, he's standing right there, who cares about the tombstone." Hee! I should have known better.

[ottoDbusdriver]

That is hilarious -- I missed that as well.

Would that make Nick Fury the shepherd and Hydra the 'tyranny of evil men' ?

[HistoryGirl]

An article was published today from USA Today that seems to suggest that there's an enemy in their midst and that the Clairvoyant is ZOLA/Hydra, they just couldn't call it that because it would spoil Winter Soldier. 

Also, the only weapons they have are whatever Fitz has made for them-- essentially an arsenal of Night-Night guns. 

Edited April 6, 2014 by HistoryGirl

[Jediknight]

An article was published today from USA Today that seems to suggest that there's an enemy in their midst and that the Clairvoyant is ZOLA/Hydra, they just couldn't call it that because it would spoil Winter Soldier. 

Also, the only weapons they have are whatever Fitz has made for them-- essentially an arsenal of Night-Night guns. 

So the article says there will be a major betrayal, and there's a photo of the team with Coulson, Skye, Simmons, Fitz, May, and Triplett.

I don't see Ward.

[ottoDbusdriver]

ABC released 2 sneak peeks for Tuesday's episode

One thing that bugs me about that clip with Garrett -- his plane is flying extremely close to the cloudtops, but turbulence caused by wing tip vortices and by the jet wash (which Garrett specifically mentions about possibly affecting the UAVs) from the plane doesn't disturb the clouds at all.  Anyone that has seen those 'Angel Wings' clips of large planes firing off flares knows how disruptive planes are to the surrounding air, and the size of the disruption only increases with speed.

Though it appears that it was a SHIELD drone doing the firing at Garrett, probably Hydra controlled.

Edited April 6, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Cranberry]

So the article says there will be a major betrayal, and there's a photo of the team with Coulson, Skye, Simmons, Fitz, May, and Triplett.

I don't see Ward.

The article also says that "what's left of Coulson's team is forced to deal on their own with the dismantling of their whole world as well as the new Hydra threat," so it does sound like one member either betrays them or dies (isn't there supposedly a death coming up, too?). Ward is the one I'd miss the least (aside from Coulson, but there's no way he's dying), although I don't like the idea of replacing him with Triplett, which I assume is what the writers would do so they'd have enough experienced field agents. Something about Triplett just rubs me the wrong way -- I don't like how cocky he is and how he was flirting with Simmons in the midst of Skye's medical emergency. There's something kinda tacky about that. He just comes on too strong in general, I think.

[HistoryGirl]

I read a spec on tumblr about that very photo that is minus Ward.  The person suggested that perhaps the team is gathering up supplies from some secret Arctic SHIELD bunker-- hence the inclusion of Simmons (she would need to gather the medical supplies that she wants).  That photo seems to be from ep. 18 and these images support that speculation.  So either he's a mole/rat or he's guarding the bunker that the team is raiding. 

Edited April 6, 2014 by HistoryGirl

[Jediknight]

One thing that should be mentioned (at least it better be) in this next episode is Fury or Maria telling Coulson "You can't trust anyone."  Fury fought to bring back Coulson, so he's with Cap, and Maria as someone Fury can trust.  You'd figure he'd let Coulson know about this.  And Coulson would rightfully be ecstatic for being in the same company as Captain America.

The episodes immediately coming up, unless I'm mistaken, are supposed to take place right after Winter Soldier.  So it would make sense that Coulson would get a message from Fury.

Here's hoping that somehow Cap and Falcon have a cameo on the show.  Just so Cap can learn that Coulson is alive, and because an episode with even a cameo from Captain America would make it the best episode this show has done.

[MSquared]

Here's hoping that somehow Cap and Falcon have a cameo on the show.  Just so Cap can learn that Coulson is alive, and because an episode with even a cameo from Captain America would make it the best episode this show has done.

 

I have wanted to see the reaction of the Avengers to Coulson being alive since AoS began.  Thor was the closest to him, Stark had a grudging respect for him, Cap was fanboyed by him and yet, none of them know yet.  I also want to see the reaction of the Avengers to Fury's ongoing agenda.  

[HistoryGirl]

One thing that should be mentioned (at least it better be) in this next episode is Fury or Maria telling Coulson "You can't trust anyone."

 

It seems that FitzSimmons' professor from the Academy is the one to say this based on the promo.

[VCRTracking]

 

The episodes immediately coming up, unless I'm mistaken, are supposed to take place right after Winter Soldier.  So it would make sense that Coulson would get a message from Fury.

 

The events of Winter Soldier takes place at least within two days after the assassination attempt on Fury(which was also seen at the end of the last episode) and then there's a coda about the fallout with Cap recovering, Maria Hill interviewing for a job at Stark, Natasha testifying before congress. That epilogue has to take place for over at least a week.

Edited April 6, 2014 by VCRTracking

[HistoryGirl]

I think the episode takes place at the same time as the action of Captain America (Simmons told Fitz that something was happening in the situation room-- I suspect this was the attack on Triskelion?)  In the promo for next week we see military troopers catching Tripp and Simmons doing something, so that's probably either Hydra or (more likely) SHIELD busting them for apparent insurgency.  Also the Academy teacher looks like she's in peril (whispering, leaning in to the video) when she warns them-- so she's probably revealing the fall of SHIELD to Coulson or whomever.  

I would say we probably have a few weeks in AOS world to go before we'd find ourselves after Maria Hill's entry into Stark Industries and Fury's "burial". 

[myril]

I think the episode takes place at the same time as the action of Captain America (Simmons told Fitz that something was happening in the situation room-- I suspect this was the attack on Triskelion?)  In the promo for next week we see military troopers catching Tripp and Simmons doing something, so that's probably either Hydra or (more likely) SHIELD busting them for apparent insurgency.  Also the Academy teacher looks like she's in peril (whispering, leaning in to the video) when she warns them-- so she's probably revealing the fall of SHIELD to Coulson or whomever.  

I would say we probably have a few weeks in AOS world to go before we'd find ourselves after Maria Hill's entry into Stark Industries and Fury's "burial". 

Think so as well, episode 1x17 is during the events of Winter Soldier. Right after the Situation with Nash, Garrett set of after, as he said, Deathlock and May told Coulson, that Fury was waiting for him at the Triskelion. So pretty sure the bus was on the way to the Triskelion, Coulson on the way to meet Fury at the end of episode 1x16. Then Command, Victoria Hand took over and rerouted them to, guess the Hub, because that's where I think Hand is. So guess that is about the time or shortly after the attack on Fury happened and was presumed dead (sometimes in the night was the attack at Steve's apartment, early morning the presumed death of Fury). Agents rushing to the situation room, what Simmons mentioned to Fitz, speaks for that as well, the attack on Fury quite sure would have caused some activity in the ranks. Which leaves a few hours to Captain America presumed to be a traitor, or at least someone withholding important information, and the order to hunt him. That day he and Black Widow discover Zola, and think the next day they kidnap Sitwell, encounter the Winter Soldier, and find out, Fury is alive. Not so sure if it is the same day when Captain comes back, gives his idealistic speech and the attack on the Triskelion happens, but possible, or it's the following day. Not sure though if anyone gave the timeline that much thought.

Leaning more and more to Hand not being HYDRA. Unless she wasn't told, it's HYDRA and tricked to think, they have changed or she is working with a group inside SHIELD seeing to it, that SHIELD would be more about order and keeping to procedure and keeping the gifted under control instead of giving them all freedom. Hand is sure not a big fan of Fury, but have doubts she's working against SHIELD. So she might think, she is acting for the right side and doing the right thing but then discovers, maybe she is not. Would set her up nicely for next season (guess there will be one) as someone maybe helping to try to rebuild SHIELD  as what it in her opinion should have been from the start (or to build a new organisation being that), making her an alley but one wanting different things.

Garrett - I don't know. He is an overly charming cool type with plenty of hubris and talking way too much, I don't trust him, but I never like people talking that much (particular not when they're bragging all the time about their adventures and skills). That he was Ward's S.O. makes it interesting to let him working with HYDRA, questioning Ward's loyalties.

For the rest of the season AoS probably will be about the immediate chaos, aftermath of the events of Winter Soldier. Having to deal with not knowing who worked for who, who will do now what, being for a while much on their own. And next season can show us the beginning of some new SHIELD.

 

1. Since Nick Fury has suspected SHIELD has been compromised, do you think the TV team was supposed to be his trusted team outside SHIELD influence?
2. Could the Guest House basically be a Hydra facility?  If yes, it was vaguely morally okay for the guards to be killed.  
3. Also, SItwell NOOO!
4. Do you think Coulson was brought back so Hydra could experiment with the blue guy's blood or was it legitimately Nick Fury needing him back?

If HYDRA had brought Coulson back and experimented on him, Zola / The Clairvoyant should know. Unless that was something someone else inside HYDRA would have kept secret from him (these secretive spy folks like not just to compartmentalize but work behind each others back). It probably was a HYDRA facility, but one they might have more or less forgotten about. It's more likely, that Fury brought back Coulson, But how did Fury know about it and more important what it might be good for? And how did he then manage to keep it under wraps without HYDRA getting the least bit suspicious if they had infiltrated SHIELD as much as claimed.

Edited April 7, 2014 by katusch