Zelena: DOES Wicked Always Win?

[Curio]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

I was thinking about this when we saw Robin being appalled that he was expected to hand the baby over to Zelena.

I absolutely hated that moment because the writing manipulation was glaring. The scene was obviously written and directed to make it seem like Robin was being a bad guy and a meanie for not trusting Zelena with the baby, and having Regina in the middle taking her sister's side was supposed to be an indicator to the audience that we're supposed to side with her. It's like they think we'll automatically forgive a villain if they show a shot of them crying or looking sad in the background, but the writers forget that we also have long-term memories and there's no way in hell I'm forgetting what Zelena did to Robin.

[KingOfHearts]

5 hours ago, Curio said:

I absolutely hated that moment because the writing manipulation was glaring. The scene was obviously written and directed to make it seem like Robin was being a bad guy and a meanie for not trusting Zelena with the baby, and having Regina in the middle taking her sister's side was supposed to be an indicator to the audience that we're supposed to side with her. It's like they think we'll automatically forgive a villain if they show a shot of them crying or looking sad in the background, but the writers forget that we also have long-term memories and there's no way in hell I'm forgetting what Zelena did to Robin.

That whole scene was weird given the show's history. Robin was able to feel an emotion, and it's never elaborated on. The characters didn't question quick redemptions before, so why does he all of a sudden? It makes total sense that he would be more than apprehensive about handing Pistachio over. A few days ago Zelena swore she was keeping the baby and never letting them have her. But since the plot was trying to redeem Zelena and put Pistachio out of harm's way, Robin was forced to comply. Not only was she being put under the care of Zelena, but Hades would be with them. That makes it all even worse.

[Mathius]

WHO thought that it was a good idea giving Zelena that scene with Roland in 5x22?  It feels like it was meant for Regina but they had to rush her onto her road trip with Emma so they gave it to Zelena instead, which makes no sense.  Why a touching goodbye between Roland and the woman who murdered his mother and raped his father, and indirectly contributed to his death?  The woman who, via Rumple, threatened to kill Roland once?  Why is he even hugging her, he had his memories of her as Marian erased, so they logically shouldn't have even met before!

Edited May 17, 2016 by Mathius

[Shanna Marie]

That scene between Roland and Zelena could have been interesting if they'd bothered setting it up, if they'd even remembered that Zelena had lived as his mother for a couple of months. He might not remember her having been his mother, but she would remember that, and someone as starved for love as she is should have been affected by that -- and then it should be painful for her that he not only doesn't remember that time, but doesn't have any idea who Zelena is because she's a total stranger to him. So she should have been all teary-eyed and sad about saying goodbye to him, while he's like "who the hell are you, lady?"

[YaddaYadda]

I thought the scene was sort of out of place, and the whole thing was just weird, but at the same time, she took good care of him for weeks, and I wonder if the idea to have a baby of her own didn't come from that. Because Roland was there with his "mom", and he really loved her. 

[Shanna Marie]

Come to think of it, if Roland doesn't remember "Marian" being back, how are they explaining the baby sister? For all Roland knows, his dad was dating Regina. I know he's too young to understand the facts of life, but he would have to be confused about how he had a baby sister whose mom is some woman he doesn't know.

[KingOfHearts]

On 5/17/2016 at 1:31 PM, Shanna Marie said:

Come to think of it, if Roland doesn't remember "Marian" being back, how are they explaining the baby sister? For all Roland knows, his dad was dating Regina. I know he's too young to understand the facts of life, but he would have to be confused about how he had a baby sister whose mom is some woman he doesn't know.

Does Roland even know he has a baby sister?

[Mari]

He apparently does, since Zelena was talking about making sure he and Pistachio had visits.

[KingOfHearts]

7 minutes ago, Mari said:

He apparently does, since Zelena was talking about making sure he and Pistachio had visits.

Oh right. I forgot about that. I couldn't hear most of the dialogue in that scene.

[Shanna Marie]

Yeah, Zelena let him kiss his baby sister good-bye and said they'd be able to visit.

It's too bad Archie didn't go back with the Merry Men (or did he? He may as well, for all the time we've seen him lately) because that kid is so going to need therapy.

[TheGreenKnight]

I wasn't really sure to post this because it's sort of a What If scenario, but I was just thinking about how weak (power-wise) Zelena is at this point on the show. She's no threat at all to any of Emma, Regina, or Rumpel. I mean, even Henry could probably take her now he's The Author.

Then I started thinking about the twist at the end of 5A with Rumpel re-assuming the role of the Dark One. Don't get me wrong, I thought the twist worked because I was really shocked when it happened and more enraged at Rumpel than I'd ever been. Unfortunately, after that first moment, it actually loses its effect because it ruined the direction for Rumbelle and re-set the board back to basic, boring 0. And thinking about it, the twist would have worked more if it had been Zelena who had done all of this instead. For one, it would make her a legitimate threat again, while 1. Making her redemption arc in 5B even stronger considering she would be powerful enough that not becoming good would be a legitimate option (since Regina and the others wouldn't be able to stop her if she didn't make the choice herself), and 2. Giving the character a little more weight on the show, especially now that it seems she's becoming a part of the heroes' group. Plus, it would follow up on her rage at Dark Swan's attempt to kill her and her promise for revenge by making everything that happened (particularly Hook's death) absolutely pointless.

Now I'm wishing it had happened because it would have continued the character's streak of taking a level in badass (controlling Rumpel, killing Neal, faking everything as Marian, bending Rumpel to her will in the hospital) and, personally, I feel it would benefitted the Rumbelle storyline, too, since I could see a happy ending being possible/believable for them for the first time on top of fulfilling their development throughout 4 and 5A before the twist ruined it all.

[Camera One]

I actually thought Zelena was overpowered in 5A once she got free.  She was able to do all that to Merlin.  Technically, she could turn Henry into a pile of ash before he could pick up his pen.  I find that magical power overall on this show is so undefined (in terms of who can do what, and to what extent), that I would not be surprised if Zelena beat Emma or Regina on any given battle.  I absolutely still see her as a legitimate threat, if she hadn't gone soft.

Having said that, I would have been open to Zelena being the one to steal the Dark One power at the end of 5A as you suggested.  I feel that making Rumple the Dark One yet again was lazy writing, and essentially resetting the status quo, which has already been done to death.

Speaking of your username, it would have been interesting if Zelena had gotten involved in the "Green Knight" story in Camelot.

[KingOfHearts]

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that I would not be surprised if Zelena beat Emma or Regina on any given battle.  I absolutely still see her as a legitimate threat, if she hadn't gone soft.

I'm not sure if Emma would lose considering Zelena's weakness is light magic. Technically Regina beat her in 3x20 for the same reason. But if she didn't have that contrived Achilles' Heel, Zelena could definitely whoop them both with her skill alone. Someone like Emma might be powerful, but that doesn't mean they know how to wield it properly. Zelena's character is meant to be prodigy even without her super powered pendant.

Was her weakness to light magic tied to the pendant? Since the other witches used light magic, maybe it was created to prevent someone from abusing it. If one of them started using dark magic, the others could easily incapacitate them with their light magic. That's probably just headcanon, though. A&E aren't clever enough to think that up.

[Camera One]

I don't even know what light magic is, by this point in the show... it's hard for me to believe it's stronger just because they say it is.  Light magic is clearly not that strong, since the heroes are always in mortal danger.  How would one classify Glinda, Blue and Merlin's blend of useless magic if it's not light magic.  And is Dark One magic > Light Magic?   Even if "light magic" will trump Zelena every time, Emma and Regina can't be everywhere at once, and Zelena could still kill a lot of people and do a lot of destruction if she really wanted to.  Zelena could also just use threatening magical objects like non-magical villains (eg. Arthur, to some extent Cruella), who could still be dangerous.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

Zelena is just another sassy villain/redeeming villain at this point. I did find Zelena more tolerable in S5 than in previous seasons, but I don't see the point of her character now other than being one more Regina prop, now that she and Regina have made up. 

In a way, if Zelena had died killing Hades, it would have rounded off her arc reasonably well. 

[KingOfHearts]

6 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Zelena is just another sassy villain/redeeming villain at this point. I did find Zelena more tolerable in S5 than in previous seasons, but I don't see the point of her character now other than being one more Regina prop, now that she and Regina have made up. 

In a way, if Zelena had died killing Hades, it would have rounded off her arc reasonably well. 

I did think Zelena held some sort of purpose in the Land of Untold Stories subplot. For some reason, her sarcastic remarks are less hurtful and more humorous than Regina's. That could be because she is a character that is taken as is - she's not being labeled a "hero" or "poorest victim". Other characters are allowed to snark back or make an eyeroll. Her place is really just keeping things from getting too tediously black and white. She's there and can do whatever the hell she wants. For lack of a better term, she keeps things fresh wherever she goes.

If she hadn't been there in LoUS, it would have just been a group of heroes on another adventure. But because she was there, it was more dynamic. She doesn't come with all the moral baggage like Regina does.

Edited September 2, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[TheGreenKnight]

I think her role on the show in the long-term will revolve around Regina since they are sisters and she brings more color to the show than the Charmings or Rumpel at this point.. I can see them having a similar relationship to Bree and Katherine from Desperate Housewives, as far as leaning on each other so they don't regress backwards. In fact, I would be satisfied if the show didn't give either her or Regina new love interests and have them learn to be happy with one another and their children. 

[Rumsy4]

30 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I did think Zelena held some sort of purpose in the Land of Untold Stories subplot. For some reason, her sarcastic remarks are less hurtful and more humorous than Regina's. That could be because she is a character that is taken as is - she's not being labeled a "hero" or "poorest victim". Other characters are allowed to snark back or make an eyeroll. Her place is really just keeping things from getting too tediously black and white. She's there and can do whatever the hell she wants. For lack of a better term, she keeps things fresh wherever she goes.

If she hadn't been there in LoUS, it would have just been a group of heroes on another adventure. But because she was there, it was more dynamic. She doesn't come with all the moral baggage like Regina does.

I actually don't even remember what Zelena did or said in the finale other than rolling her eyes. I suppose a big part of her arc in S6 will involve vacillating between supporting Regina, or being tempted to side with EQ!Regina. And in the end, love for her daughter will save her ... blah blah But as long as Zelena keeps me entertained, I won't complain much. ;-)

[Camera One]

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I actually don't even remember what Zelena did or said in the finale other than rolling her eyes. I suppose a big part of her arc in S6 will involve vacillating between supporting Regina, or being tempted to side with EQ!Regina. And in the end, love for her daughter will save her ... blah blah But as long as Zelena keeps me entertained, I won't complain much. ;-)

Ditto for me except for the "keeps me entertained" part.  I find she's okay in moderation, but even by the end of "Our Decay", I was exhausted with her.  I also can't stand her murdering sprees... just don't find them enjoyable.  To me, she was best in the first half of 5A, and her occasional wise cracks can be funny.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Camera One

[TheGreenKnight]

Murder sprees? The only person I can remember her murdering was Marian, although she attempted to kill baby Neal.

But I find Zelena the least exhausting character on the show at this point. They could relegate Emma and Hook tragically dragging on ever committing to anything beyond "I love you," the Charmings standing in the background with their eyes glazed over, Henry's actor trying and failing to act, and Rumpel praying over Belle's unconscious body all down to just 10 minutes, and I'm guessing that 10 minutes would still be a chore to watch.

[Camera One]

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Murder sprees?

She killed the guard at the palace (a shot that was meant to kill Dorothy), and then she killed a Munchkin.  Hades then commented that she has been sending "so many" souls his way, meaning she kills regularly.  

I'm glad you're enjoying Zelena.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

Zelena is horribly exhausting to me when she monologues endlessly. I couldn't even make it through her hospital speech in Heart of Gold because she goes on and on and on and on in this over the top sneering manner. I just want her to shut up. She was great in 5A because they stopped with the monologues and let her throw shade at everyone for a minute or two an episode. She's not their buddy, so she can be as rude as possible and it's still funny.

I kind of expect Zelena to be have some twist in the season where she betrays everyone and goes all evil again. I'd take her as the Dark One. They like to recycle plots so she can take on the Darkness to "protect" Pistachio. Or maybe because she's always wanted to be Regina, she can absorb the Evil Queen and truly be her sister in some super creepy way. Of course, then she'll go back to sneeringly monologuing her evil plans, so that would mean I'd need her to die ASAP.

Edited September 2, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[Rumsy4]

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

Ditto for me except for the "keeps me entertained" part.  I find she's okay in moderation, but even by the end of "Our Decay", I was exhausted with her.  

Oh same here. Witty one-liners is where she is the most entertaining. Her whiny and dramatic monologues are tiresome and cringeworthy. That hospital speech was one of her worst! It was A&E trying to cram in as much exposition as possible to explain their forced retcon.

7 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

I kind of expect Zelena to be have some twist in the season where she betrays everyone and goes all evil again. 

That is inevitable I think. Every "redeeming" villain backslides. Though her time doing the "right" things hasn't been all thst long.

[TheGreenKnight]

Well, if you don’t like the premise of the storylines, it’s natural you won’t enjoy a character like Zelena… That said, I’d rank her hospital speech as one of the character’s best scenes (and one of the only moments in 4B that was any good outside of “Sympathy for the DeVil” and some of "PUS") and “Our Decay” one of the top 3 episodes of season 5. I know I've often seen complaints here about scene-chewing, but…forgive me for saying it, that’s been an aspect of this show since the very beginning? Regina and Rumpel did it in season 1, Cora in 2, etc. etc. If you can’t really get into scene-chewing villains, you probably picked up the wrong show?

Thankfully the showrunners have characters to please every part of the audience, because I’d tune out without characters like Zelena, to be honest. That's the main reason I even stuck around through the first few episodes of the series with Snow/Charming's dull romance flashbacks because of the villains' scenes.

[KingOfHearts]

I have to speak on behalf of Zelena. I hate that she was pushed off to the side in 6A after finally becoming a full character in 5B. She's back to being a two-dimensional plot device. She's probably my favorite character (RIP Regina) right now, so it's sad to see her - well, sad - with nothing to do. Nobody cares about her and people like Rumple and EQ are just waiting for her to die. Freaking Belle gets more to work with and it's infuriating. 

Meanwhile Regina is dominating the show, gets to see her boyfriend again, and is living comfortably in her mansion. I think I'm turning green for Zelena's sake...

Edited December 9, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

It is a shame how much Zelena has been sidelined. What is the point of bringing Bex on as a series regular (replacing Sean), and sidelining her? Regina has taken over the show to the point where literally no other character (other than Rumbelle, it seems) can shine. I can't say Zelena is a favorite character of mine, but I find her "sass" way way more enjoyable than Regina's. It's sad that none of the so-called heroes have reached out to her either. Even Belle only did it to get her help. Emma has a million things on her shoulders, but at the very least, someone should be checking on her to make sure she's not going "wicked" again. Regina gets pampered through every tantrum she has during her "redemption", but Zelena gets nothing. She should be Regina's responsibility, becasue she was the one who pressured everyone to give her a chance in the UW.

Even worse than Regina's neglect of Zelena herself, is the fact that Regina hasn't cared about Pistachio at all. She wanted to take the baby from Zelena when Robin was alive. Now, she's not even sparing the child a second glance. She doesn't care that Roland is gone either (when she once said Roland was part of her happy ending). Regina's love for Robin was really all about herself. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

11 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

What is the point of bringing Bex on as a series regular (replacing Sean), and sidelining her?

There was no point.  The Writers just liked and wanted to keep her, before realizing there was no story for a redeemed Mother Zelena.  

[Mathius]

3 minutes ago, Camera One said:

There was no point.  The Writers just liked and wanted to keep her, before realizing there was no story for a redeemed Mother Zelena.  

Correction: before realizing that they weren't talented enough to come up with a story for a redeemed Mother Zelena.

[YaddaYadda]

The way I see it is simple. When Regina was loving her sister, Zelena was part of the gang. Now that Regina isn't getting along with Zelena, no one is talking to Zelena.

It's like high school, when the head bitch decides that she's going to pick on someone and hate them for x and y and everyone follows suit.

So Once it kind of like high school.

[Shanna Marie]

It's their pattern for almost every guest character they've gotten excited about and then brought on as a regular. See Red, Neal, Will, and Robin. Even Belle, to some extent, off and on. The only one to somewhat escape this curse was Hook, and even he kind of goes off and on, where he's either in the middle of things or so marginalized that you could forget he's on the show. Zelena's just the latest victim. They're like kids who spend the whole holiday season desperately wanting a particular toy, writing letters to Santa, begging, cutting out the picture from the ad, and then when they actually get it, they play with it for five minutes, get bored, and toss it aside because they get fascinated with something else.

[Camera One]

Zelena was mostly unused in 5A and then she got more emotional exploration than several of the regulars in 5B (including Robin, who didn't even get an exit storyline).  This will be tougher in 6B with Robin's return, Gideon, and Aladdin & Jasmine.  I wonder if Gideon will be their new shiny toy and he gets upped to a regular for Season 7 since we need to explore Rumple interactions with his son (since they killed the last one after they got bored of him).

So last season, Robin Hood was killed at the end of 5B and now he's coming back for 6B.  Zelena was "killed" at the end of 3B and they brought her back in 4B to get some screentime.

[KingOfHearts]

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. It's sad that none of the so-called heroes have reached out to her either.

Especially after Snow, Charming and Hook got her help trying to escape the Land of Untold Stories. It makes no sense to me that Snow wouldn't care about Zelena after idolizing Regina for so long. Sure, Zelena took her baby for a few minutes, but Regina took her baby for 28 years... Zelena is also "family" (she is her step-aunt), so that's not even an excuse. Snowing have just always been prejudiced against "villains" (including Hook) unless they're Rumple or Regina.

I loathe the REC sooo much. It killed the show.

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Correction: before realizing that they weren't talented enough to come up with a story for a redeemed Mother Zelena.

Whatever plot Mother Zelena would have gotten would have gone under the "taboo" category. It would have had to either introduce a new character pairing* like Snow/Zelena, make Regina do something selfless, or give a villain a believable, straight-forward redemption. And too, Zelena was designed to be Regina 2.0. Snarking, wardrobe, everything. She has filled in for the Evil Queen and now that EQ is here, she has no role. The only reason she got any arc in 5B was because A&E thought it would be cool if she dated Hades or met her sister in childhood. The writers were never interested in her as a person - only as the Wicked Witch of the West or Regina's lesser sister.

*Not romantic, just platonic, like Hook/Belle.

Edited December 9, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

17 minutes ago, Camera One said:

So last season, Robin Hood was killed at the end of 5B and now he's coming back for 6B.  Zelena was "killed" at the end of 3B and they brought her back in 4B to get some screentime.

Seems like a serial case of seller's regret. ;-)

12 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Especially after Snow, Charming and Hook got her help trying to escape the Land of Untold Stories. It makes no sense to me that Snow wouldn't care about Zelena after idolizing Regina for so long. Sure, Zelena took her baby for a few minutes, but Regina took her baby for 28 years... Zelena is also "family" (she is her step-aunt), so that's not even an excuse. Snowing have just always been prejudiced against "villains" (including Hook) unless they're Rumple or Regina.

I do think Snowing tend to be hypocritical when it comes to villain labels, but in Zelena's case, I primarily blame Regina. Emma never liked Zelena. She blames him for "killing" Neal, and Zelena actually had a hand in getting Hook killed. Yes--Zelena helped Snowing and Hook get out of the LoUS, but it's more like mutually helping each other. In fact, I can't really remember if she did anything useful. But after the lasagne-incident with Regina, Snowing and Emma should know better than to leave a freshly recovered villain stewing alone. And Regina should know that from personal experience. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Mathius]

22 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I loathe the REC sooo much. It killed the show.

Nah, it's one of the many things that killed the show (as I said on another thread, the biggest show-killer is the grim tone from 4B and onward.)

[Camera One]

Zelena really screwed them over in Camelot.  Yes, Regina was being a big meanie, but Zelena teaming up with Arthur prevented The Dark One from being permanently eradicated.  If not for Zelena's actions, Hook wouldn't have died, the whole Underworld plot wouldn't have needed to happen, the Land of Untold Stories people wouldn't have been transported over so no Evil Queen.  If we need to have the Regina Exclusion Clause, keep it for Regina only and I'm totally fine with Hook and Co. giving Zelena the cold shoulder for a very long time.

[KingOfHearts]

13 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Zelena really screwed them over in Camelot.  Yes, Regina was being a big meanie, but Zelena teaming up with Arthur prevented The Dark One from being permanently eradicated.  If not for Zelena's actions, Hook wouldn't have died, the whole Underworld plot wouldn't have needed to happen, the Land of Untold Stories people wouldn't have been transported over so no Evil Queen.  If we need to have the Regina Exclusion Clause, keep it for Regina only and I'm totally fine with Hook and Co. giving Zelena the cold shoulder for a very long time.

She only screwed them over because Regina was abusing her gleefully and no one cared.

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Yes--Zelena helped Snowing and Hook get out of the LoUS, but it's more like mutually helping each other. In fact, I can't really remember if she did anything useful. But after the lasagne-incident with Regina, Snowing and Emma should know better than to leave a freshly recovered villain stewing alone. And Regina should know that from personal experience. 

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If we need to have the Regina Exclusion Clause, keep it for Regina only and I'm totally fine with Hook and Co. giving Zelena the cold shoulder for a very long time.

Logically, Zelena should in jail or executed. No one should care about her. But it's this show, where mass murderers are running around getting hero stickers and cozy hugs. The REC is in play because while Regina screwed the White family a million times over, Zelena is in the dog house for less transgressions. Regina is unapologetic, while Zelena is willing to change. It's stupid and hypocritical. Pretty much everyone on this show but Zelena and Hook are hypocrites.

Edited December 9, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

To be fair, Zelena had Archie locked up in her house and was hanging out with the Evil Queen at the spa. She picked a side early on, so it's hard to judge Snowing & Co for not cozying up to Zelena. Now she did that because Regina rejected her again, but that's not on them either. Snow and Regina even had a heart to heart about it where Snow encouraged Regina to talk to Zelena and work it out.

Snow: This isn't about a feather.

Regina: I don't know what it's about.

Snow: Well, whatever it is, just talk to her about it. Get it out in the open, deal with your pain.

Snow later encouraged Regina by talking about the ups and downs she had in her relationship with Emma. Even after Zelena and Regina had fought, Snow was urging Regina to work on it. Obviously, Regina is incapable of this given the hypocritical I'm a special snowflake who deserves forgiveness and you don't speech, but Zelena was open to a relationship with Regina and Snow tried to facilitate that. Zelena was not going to respond to Emma or Hook or Snow or anyone else. She wants a sister and the Evil Queen was offering that while Regina was not.

The biggest problem with characters like Robin, Zelena and Belle is that they are only tied to one other character in the story. Zelena got a big story in 5B because she was related to the big guest villain in addition to being part of Regina's story. Being tied to the two characters with the most screentime greatly boosted Zelena's story potential. Now Hades is gone, Regina has moved on to better things and Robin's death further severed the ties between the stories because Regina doesn't care a bit about Pistachio anymore. 

[Mathius]

I honestly think the writers should expand more on Zelena and Belle's alliance of convenience that started in 5B and recently came up again in 6A.  It gives them both something interesting to work with and the two actresses actually work very well off of each other (Emile and Bex are friends IRL)

Edited December 9, 2016 by Mathius

[YaddaYadda]

I'm expecting Zelena to bite the dust this season, because Regina needs more pain and tears over how she will never have a happy ending. Or whatever.

[TheGreenKnight]

I'm worried she may die this season, too, especially if they get a 7th season and budget cuts are required. I'd rather see Belle, Henry, or Charming go, but I think Zelena would be more likely to get the ax, unfortunately.

The only good thing they carried over from 5B was Belle's interactions with Zelena. Since Zelena is obviously not going to be included in the main gang's problem-solving efforts like I'd hoped going by the 5 finale, she should at least continue to be friends with Belle. And hopefully Belle will benefit from being around a woman who isn't a complete doormat (in particular a woman who made Rumpel her bitch at least twice throughout the series). Come to think of it, is Zelena the only character on this show that Rumpel has never really been able to control? I guess Hook did put him on his deathbed once, but that's nothing compared to the way Zelena humiliated him and made him a subordinate in both 3B and 4B. I do like Regina, but Zelena was always much more in-control and empowered than her. Which is weird considering her initial plot motivation was jealousy.

[KingOfHearts]

Once Upon A Time star Rebecca Mader ties the knot with Marcus Kayne

Congrats, Bex!

[Hecate7]

On 12/8/2016 at 6:53 PM, YaddaYadda said:

The way I see it is simple. When Regina was loving her sister, Zelena was part of the gang. Now that Regina isn't getting along with Zelena, no one is talking to Zelena.

It's like high school, when the head bitch decides that she's going to pick on someone and hate them for x and y and everyone follows suit.

So Once it kind of like high school.

I've had that thought more than a few times. I think the writers are stuck in an "it works, it made me popular, anyone who doesn't murder villagers for laughs is stupid and deserves what they get" kinda mindset leftover from perhaps being popular kids in high school?

[Camera One]

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The way I see it is simple. When Regina was loving her sister, Zelena was part of the gang. Now that Regina isn't getting along with Zelena, no one is talking to Zelena.

Zelena was never truly "part of the gang".  It's also possible the others tolerated her only because she was Regina's sister.  Snow did encourage Regina to go talk to and forgive her sister.

I actually don't have a problem with Regina blaming Zelena for Robin's death, because feelings can be illogical.  I do have a problem with her blaming Zelena and not realizing it's irrational and hypocritical.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

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I actually don't have a problem with Regina blaming Zelena for Robin's death, because feelings can be illogical.  I do have a problem with her blaming Zelena and not realizing it's irrational and hypocritical.

But that begs the question - how long can you use feelings as an excuse? If 9 episodes isn't long enough, what is?

[Camera One]

Well, the way it works on the show is not that complex.  She actually does blame her and has no self-awareness about it.

[KingOfHearts]

Well, I suppose it's entirely possible that Regina was mourning for Robin offscreen 6x02-6x08. We just didn't see it because that would be character consistency, and that's taboo in A&E's world.

[Camera One]

Fake, uh I mean, NotFakeButNotReal Robin will probably help her to see the errors of her ways with her sister.

[andromeda331]

I almost want to laugh because Regina irrationally and hypocritically blamed Snow White for three or four decades for Daniel's death even though Cora is the one who killed him, she knew what her mother was like and Snow didn't. But we still haven't heard Regina decided she was wrong about that or to blame to Snow and for what she did to her.  So she could use the "excuse" against Zelena for decades or it is really how she feels with no self-awareness. All three would be correct or each one on their own, and its funny in a way. Its like how people mention every once in awhile if Regina was being written sarcastically or as a parady or something it would be funny. With anyone else you'd be having other characters shaking their heads at Regina or behind her back remarking she found someone "new" to hate or have people remarking to Regina "wow you hated the wrong person for decades and now you've moved onto Zelena" or for her to realize deep down she hasn't changed as much as she thought she had. But with A&E who completely think Regina is the best and has been redeemed. They don't see anything irrational or hypocritical about her. They could even use her blaming Zelena until she breaks down or is forced to acknowledge her part in Robin's death. She told Robin to give the baby to Zelena and for Zelena to go to Hades. Regina doesn't even have the survivor's remorse or guilt that Robin saved her life that comes up a lot on TV. Regina thinks Robin's death is Zelena's fault? Well, then it is no matter what actually happen and no one contradicts her. Regina believes it A&E believe it. Its insane.

Edited March 1, 2017 by andromeda331

[Camera One]

The possible difference in this case is Zelena is Mini Woobie, so when Woobie Master and Mini Woobie meets, it could have a different outcome from that nasty liferuiner Snow.

[TheGreenKnight]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 3:13 PM, Camera One said:

I actually don't have a problem with Regina blaming Zelena for Robin's death, because feelings can be illogical.  I do have a problem with her blaming Zelena and not realizing it's irrational and hypocritical.

This. I wish Regina, instead of delivering a hypocritical I'm-better-than-you sermon to Zelena, had just explained that her resentment is irrational and she can't help blaming Zelena even if she knows that it's not really Zelena's fault. They could've used it as a comparison to how she reacted to Snow wrt Daniel's death. Missed opportunities.