Zelena: DOES Wicked Always Win?

[Mari]

That happened seasons ago! Like anyone remembers that! TSTW. Sigh.

[Serena]

I will miss you, Zelena. Come back soon.

 

How dumb is it to send her somewhere far away when she can come back any moment, instead of putting her back in her cell?

[KingOfHearts]

Oz is like Wonderland where realm-hopping seems frequent. I wouldn't be surprised if Zelena found out Regina was in the Underworld and killed herself just to get there.

[Rumsy4]

And now there's a newborn with no parents, bio or not, left under the care of fairies. I guess Regina and Robin just don't want Zelena to have the baby. It doesn't matter if they themselves are around to take care of the child or not. 

 

Zelena's about face was so abrupt after the last episode. 

[HoodlumSheep]

Actually, I've been wondering; When Zelena had her magic back, why wasn't she turning people into winged monkeys left and right?

Is she too cool for school now?

[KingOfHearts]

 

And now there's a newborn with no parents, bio or not, left under the care of fairies. I guess Regina and Robin just don't want Zelena to have the baby. It doesn't matter if they themselves are around to take care of the child or not.

This. Regina and Robin don't care about Pistachio... only getting rid of Zelena without getting their hands too dirty. Visitation rights were only a compromise to get her out of their hair for most of the time.

Edited December 7, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Can we just take a moment to appreciate Zelena coming up with names that were much better than Neal, or any dead person's name, really.

 

I guess Baby Green is still baby no name at this point.

[InsertWordHere]

I am convinced they are saving it because they are going to make amends with someone in the Underworld and name the baby after her. We now have Neal 2.0, Henry 2.0, Phillip 2.0, and Liam 2.0. All I care about is that the weirdly prophetic naming tradition of the females in the Mills family continues. 

[Mathius]

Zelena's about face was so abrupt after the last episode. 

 

Zelena's about face was fine and in-character, it was just her openly announcing it that was so stupid.  This half-season had been giving the impression that she'd finally moved beyond idiotically shooting herself in the foot like that.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Mathius

[Rumsy4]

Zelena always villain monologues her plans out loud. That was very much in-character (Except when she was Marian, but it was clearly a retcon). The scene where she coo-ed over the baby seemed to promise some potential for reconciliation, but clearly the writers were just manipulating the audience for the upcoming Twist-er (har har).

[YaddaYadda]

Zelena's about face was fine and in-character, it was just her openly announcing it that was so stupid.  This half-season had been giving the impression that she'd finally moved beyond idiotically shooting herself in the foot like that.

I get where her taunting was coming from.

 

She thought Robin and Regina (or Gina and Robbie) would be gone that same evening. She wasn't marked, but they were, so I can see the gloating because she thought she'd won.

[Shanna Marie]

I thought all of Zelena's behavior through all this was totally in character. The problem is that it rather badly spotlights how out-of-character it was for her to be able to pull off the Marian deception. She can't stop herself from gloating for five seconds, even to ensure that her plans work. There is no way on this earth or any other that she would have been able to resist the temptation to gloat to Regina about taking Robin away from her. She wouldn't have been able to keep a straight face through all the "I won't be his second choice, he's really in love with you" stuff before suddenly keeling over of a frozen heart and forcing him to leave town. She'd have been giggling and bouncing around while watching Robin and Regina say their farewells.

[Faemonic]

I was really sorry to see Zelena tornadoed. First, I thought she left us too soon because this was supposed to be a show about family, and Regina having a sibling would have been thematically attuned to the exploration of that. Next, even though I balked at what they made of Zelena when they brought her back to life, it was beginning to generate the same tension that I thought would be so interesting between Regina and Robin's family with Marian. Instead, it became a case of, "Uh-oh! Haha never mind." Instead of really working through the emotional potential that could be plumbed from that situation.

[HoodlumSheep]

I was kind of sad to see her go so soon too. I really enjoyed Zelena this season, despite the baby plot. I also have a feeling that she'll eventually bite the dust someday, and oddly enough I think she'll only be around for the rest of season 5.

[KingOfHearts]

Zelena has become very disconnected from the Wicked Witch icon. In 4B and 5A, she acts more like Regina's psychotic half-sister than the intimidating super villain 3B attempted to setup in its first half. She's more annoying than threatening, but that lets her interact with multiple storylines. She's not so dangerous that we should be wondering why the heroes aren't killing her, but at the same time she always throws gum into the works for her own selfish purposes. A&E were correct in their assessment that she was a fly you couldn't swat away. But it's interesting how different she is written when you compare her introduction to her reintroduction. 

[Curio]

Zelena has become very disconnected from the Wicked Witch icon.

It's funny you say that, because even though they both have green skin and ride on broom sticks, Margaret Hamilton's Wicked Witch never appears in my head at all when I think of Zelena. It's like they're from entirely different realms that it doesn't even register in my brain that one is supposed to be an homage to the other. 

[YaddaYadda]

Zelena is the Wicked Witch in name only. She's also batshit crazy which I think is different from being wicked.

[KingOfHearts]

 

It's funny you say that, because even though they both have green skin and ride on broom sticks, Margaret Hamilton's Wicked Witch never appears in my head at all when I think of Zelena. It's like they're from entirely different realms that it doesn't even register in my brain that one is supposed to be an homage to the other.

I didn't either. What I mean to say is that A&E dropped all the iconography - she's not green, has no flying monkeys, doesn't ride on a broomstick, has no strong ties to Oz, etc. They've assigned her to be her own character. Back in 3B they wanted us to go, "Holy crap! It's the Wicked Witch!" for a few episodes until she got her woobifying centric.

Edited January 26, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

I miss the flying monkeys. :( that was some of my favorite Once cgi, actually. Here she can turn people into flying monkeys with the wave of her hand...but seems to forgotten that cool bit of magic.

[Camera One]

I don't find Zelena at all intimidating.  Margaret Hamilton's Wicked Witch didn't even kill anyone but she was deliciously evil and scary.  I know many people loved Zelena in 5A but I still think she's a waste of screentime and does not evoke any sense of Oz   The writers just like having a character with no filter to deliver their "sassy" lines now that The Evil Queen has been de-fanged.

[KAOS Agent]

So this was in an article about the upcoming season and apparently everything Zelena related is top secret, but this non-spoilery quote from Bex Mader makes me want to bang my head against a wall. When asked whether she thinks Zelena could find true love or just remain wicked forever, Mader said this,

 

“Can you have both? I do want her to go through that journey and have that, because she’s never had anyone to love her. But now she has a baby, which is wonderful.”

 

No, no, no, no, no. Babies are not a cure all. It is not their responsibility to love you or provide you with something you need. You don't have a baby because they will fix the lack of love in your life. Pistachio is a human being whose worth is entirely her own, not as some magical fix to Zelena's major psychological issues. This is a really messed up message that the show keeps putting out and it's really, really disturbing. 

[Curio]

It's the job of the parent to give unconditional love to the child, not the other way around. If a parent has done their job properly, then the child will unconditionally love them back, but it's not an automatic thing like the show pretends it is with Henry and Regina.

[Camera One]

“Can you have both? I do want her to go through that journey and have that, because she’s never had anyone to love her. But now she has a baby, which is wonderful.”

 

I agree that message was messed up.  

 

Zelena's adoptive mother seemed pretty loving to me.  And maybe people don't love her because she is a murderer and has a nasty personality?

[mjgchick]

The problem is other murderers with nasty personalities were able to find someone who would tolerate them. I'm Regina's case all of her victims did. But it really I'd a terrible message.

[KingOfHearts]

Might be unpopular opinion, but I already miss Zelena popping in. She adds a nice little "kick" and a level of unpredictability. I'm not asking that she get big centrics or anything, but her trip to Oz left a void of sorts.

 

While Zelena's actions are usually manipulated to fuel the plot (like all the other characters), it works better for her because she's such a wildcard. If she does something stupid or crazy, it's still in character. Of course I'm talking about post-Zarian-debacle.

Edited March 19, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Lots of people loved her in 5A so it seems like her fanbase expanded greatly in the last arc.  

[Curio]

Before 3B, I was excited about them bringing in the Wicked Witch because I love The Wizard of Oz, but then I ended up hating her in 3B and cheered when Rumple stabbed her. But amazingly, I actually like her in small doses now. I don't know if it's the writing or just the fact that she's one of those characters who's much better as a quick comic relief and not a character who deserves an entire arc centered around her with multiple flashbacks, but I dig her now. She can replace her sister for all I care.

[Rumsy4]

I too liked Zelena in 5A. She works in small doses.

[Camera One]

I did like some of her snarky lines, but I still think she's a waste of screentime which would have been better allotted elsewhere.  As long as they keep her away from the boring-as-hell monologues and the whiny self-pity, she is certainly more bearable now.

[HoodlumSheep]

I like Zelena too. I just miss the winged monkeys. She's completely dropped it for some reason. She could have easily turned all the heroes into monkeys if she wanted to. It's probably not within the CGI budget, though.

[KAOS Agent]

 

She works in small doses.

 

Yes, very small doses. She cannot carry an arc. 

[Curio]

Yes, very small doses. She cannot carry an arc. 

 

She also can't carry an episode. I practically fell asleep when it was just her and Arthur and Merida for 40 minutes.

[KingOfHearts]

Zelena works both as comic relief and a witty commentary. She's also better as a gray character than a villain. Part of the reason she was boring in 5x09 was because she was forced to revert into her 3B self.

[mjgchick]

I think Zelena in 5x09 didn't work because Arthur was leading the way. It felt like she was working for him. I blame that episode more on him than on any of the girls...ok Merida was bad also.

[KingOfHearts]

Zelena could have some funny snark about Team a Princess 2.0 but she didn't. She was totally wasted in that episode. I agree that Arthur was a weak main villain there.

[Camera One]

I don't know... I was frustrated by Zelena being overpowered and getting her way, used as an easy way to get Arthur in and out and around.  

 

Except when she couldn't do anything with her power when it's convenient.  She was just a plot device to me, aside from the occasional snarky line which I did enjoy.

 

But like KAOS Agent, I only like *very* small does.  Whenever the topic veers to Regina, she reminds me of a whiny baby.  She's not gray... she's a complete caricature with no substance that takes me out of the story.  The whole Robin/Regina/Zelena baby mess is so disconnected I almost feel like it exists outside of the main narrative.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Camera One

[Curio]

The whole Robin/Regina/Zelena baby mess is so disconnected I almost feel like it exists outside of the main narrative.

 

I feel the same way. The only times I feel like Zelena meshes with the show is when they're not hitting us over the head with the baby and sister drama. I enjoyed her quick appearance with Hook chained in Emma's basement and didn't feel like she overpowered the Dark Hook reveal either. She was also great when she got to torment Rumple in the hospital.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I feel the same way. The only times I feel like Zelena meshes with the show is when they're not hitting us over the head with the baby and sister drama. I enjoyed her quick appearance with Hook chained in Emma's basement and didn't feel like she overpowered the Dark Hook reveal either. She was also great when she got to torment Rumple in the hospital.

She also melded well in 5x01 with breaking her out to use the wand. Her best role is the resident nutjob you can't get rid of. She gums up the works for both good and bad guys alike.

Edited March 19, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

Zelena has no complexity, so trying to use her as the main driver of a story doesn't work. That's why she can work as comic relief or quick plot device if you need an obstacle thrown in, but the narrative gets very boring when she's endlessly monologuing about her latest complaint. Her lack of substance is ridiculously apparent when even the actress playing her can't tell you what Zelena wants or needs to make her happy. 

[KingOfHearts]

Today is Zelena's fictional birthday. Why did the writers choose the day American taxes are due? I've attempted to find out the significance of the date, but all I can come up with is that 4 and 15 are Lost numbers.

[HoodlumSheep]

Today is Zelena's fictional birthday. Why did the writers choose the day American taxes are due? I've attempted to find out the significance of the date, but all I can come up with is that 4 and 15 are Lost numbers.

Because Tax Day is universally hated in America. So Zelena getting a lousy day for her birthday makes sense, in way.

Happy birthday, Zelena!

[YaddaYadda]

Abe Lincoln died on April 15th.

[FormerMod-a1]

But this year tax day is April 18th.

[HoodlumSheep]

I think if you ask people about April 15, they'll most likely think of taxes or the Titanic.

Maybe that's it! Zelena's b-day is on the day the Titanic sunk, which represents the tragedy (work with me people) of the Wicked Hell ship that will most likely "sink" by the end of this arc.

It all makes sense now.

[KingOfHearts]

The official OUAT Facebook page posted a video of Regina and Zelena's first meeting from 3x13. The difference in Zelena's portrayal is so vast compared with today. She walks into the scene like this intimidating Big Bad who can't wait to flaunt her title as the Wicked Witch of the West. She was far more threatening and elusive. I don't think the writers had any plans to include her as a regular until after 4A. In 3B, she served strictly as a guest antagonist. The fact she was sisters with Regina meant so little in the grand scheme of things. 

 

We've said before that 3B was the first arc of the current state of the show (while 3A ended the original recipe). So on the flip side, Zelena is introduced and becomes a regular later on. There's some accidental continuity there.

Edited April 21, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[KingOfHearts]

https://www.facebook.com/OnceABC/posts/981245528597608:0

Today is Rebecca Mader's birthday. Love the pic posted. She's gorgeous.

Edited April 24, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

I love that pic too! Hope she had a swell birthday!

[Camera One]

Forget Emma, Snow, etc.  The only character given progressive character development in 5B was Zelena.  How well do you think her redemption has been done?  Would you consider her fully redeemed already?  

I was thinking about this when we saw Robin being appalled that he was expected to hand the baby over to Zelena.  Zelena's "redemption" began when she realized she needed to put her baby first, and let Regina/Robin take care of her.  Gradually, this did move beyond the baby.  She was willing to give up the silver slippers, for example.  Does she feel remorse for all the evils that she has committed?  Some of them?   If so, wasn't an apology to Robin in order?  Since are we to assume she now regrets raping Robin and killing Marian?

I don't know what to think when they had Regina basically ignoring everything she had known about Zelena, because of the return of those memories of them having fun as a child.  

[YaddaYadda]

I don't know that she's redeemed, because it takes more than that. She is on her path for that, and I feel more sympathy towards her. But I found her extremely arrogant and overconfident last episode after the TLK.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

 If so, wasn't an apology to Robin in order?  Since are we to assume she now regrets raping Robin and killing Marian?

When are the Mills sisters ever apologetic about rape and murder? She'll probably give a "no regrets" speech becasue it brought her Pistachio. I'm not trying to be mean. I do think Zelena is on the path to redemption. But I don't see either of the Mills sisters being ever caught up with apologizing to the people they wronged.

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

But I found her extremely arrogant and overconfident last episode after the TLK.

Agree. She had this smug self-complacency about her that she was right about being able to change Hades with her love.