Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

Maybe, but I just can't think when else it could be. They only had sex that one time, right? I know I ff'd through a lot of that time, but I thought it was only that one time.  When else could it have been?

 

That's why I think that whatever it is isn't going to paint them in the best light. Like it's going to be right before Tommy's funeral, or right after, since IIRC the flashback funeral in the next ep is his.

[spartan]

VERY SAD, FUCK FUCK episode, laurel lance is always the best

[HJCougar]

That's why I think that whatever it is isn't going to paint them in the best light. Like it's going to be right before Tommy's funeral, or right after, since IIRC the flashback funeral in the next ep is his.

Ugh...that is going to be awful if that is really what they show. Poor Tommy. I'm still going to hold on to the 8.5 years flashback until I see it though. Just for my sanity. :-)

[statsgirl]

 

It's definitely a flashback, it's just that there isn't a point in time in the flashbacks where it could've happened where Tommy wasn't either a) in the picture or b) recently dead. I'm not sure how they have that scene without the two of them looking gross. But, maybe that's the point.

I hope they don't.  I don't need Arrow to ever again show that Oliver/Laurel was gross. I know it was, she's dead, let Lauriver rest in peace.

[nksarmi]

I don't....no it can't be from season one, can it?  I'll take "there isn't enough soft lighting in the world to make it seem like this was them in their early days of college" over a kiss from season one.  Please no.  Can we piss on Tommy's love for Laurel anymore?

Edited April 7, 2016 by nksarmi

[apinknightmare]

I don't....no it can't be from season one, can it?  I'll take "there isn't enough soft lighting in the world to make it seem like this was them in their early days of college" over a kiss from season one.  Please no.  Can we piss on Tommy's love for Laurel anymore?

 

Oliver has short hair and stubble, so I don't think it's college. Sadly, I think Tommy's love for Laurel is a urinal at this point!

[Chaser]

I have to watch Oliver and Laurel kiss? Gross.

 

Sitting here. Patiently waiting for 'I thought of you.'

[calliope1975]

What possibly could the promise Oliver made to Laurel be that we have to wait until next season to find out? Is he going to have to name his first born after her? Oh wait, I mean the first born that he actually knows about.

[apinknightmare]

I wonder what she would've asked him to promise her since at that point she thought she was going to be okay? 

[Chaser]

He promised her he would marry Felicity in the 100th episode.

[ArrowFan]

Marc said the promise is something that would be revealed in S5 and would have a lasting impact. Its either Oliver becoming mayor (which I dont think it is, because I think Oliver ends up mayor by the end of THIS season), or its something related to Olicity.

 

And Laurel, oh Laurel. She was perfect this episode. My sole issue is her saying Oliver was still the love of her life. REALLY? He wasnt that amazing to her, and what about Tommy, the guy who gave us his life for her? I'm quite confident KC is the one who wanted to put that in, considering that's the language she always uses in interviews.

 

Apart from that, RIP, Black Canary. I may not always have liked your character, but she deserved better. I hope she finds better representation in the movies.

Edited April 7, 2016 by ArrowFan

[BkWurm1]

He promised her he would marry Felicity in the 100th episode.

I would have liked this but apparently I've run out of them today, lol. 

[lemotomato]

I would have liked this but apparently I've run out of them today, lol. 

Wait, there's a "likes" limit on the board?

Edited April 7, 2016 by lemotomato

[Midnight Lullaby]

Not even the writers know what Laurel asked Oliver to do, that's why it'll be relevant in S5, they have to decide what it might be. Joking, kind of.

[dtissagirl]

He promised her he would marry Felicity in the 100th episode.

 

"Oliver, please invite everyone to your wedding. The folks from STAR Labs need to be there, my sister and her crew too! Figure out a way to talk to them in that spaceship! Ask Felicity to do it, she'll figure it out. And then get married in early December, because that's the greatest time of the year to hold a big gathering like that. After Thanksgiving, but before Christmas. Please promise me."

[statsgirl]

Is the next episode going to be an homage to Laurel?  Hopefully it will be better than 3x2's "Sara" which was about everyone but Sara.

 

Wait, there's a "likes" limit on the board?

I think it's a  hundred per day but sometimes it cuts off earlier.

[Sakura12]

Are they really going to show Tommy's funeral side by side with Laurel's when she didn't even mention him and said Oliver would always be the love of her life? And I know it's probably for Oliver since he has now lost all three of his childhood friends including Sara who he lost like 5 times. You still think Laurel would've mentioned Tommy.

[looptab]

What possibly could the promise Oliver made to Laurel be that we have to wait until next season to find out? 

Ok, don't come at me, but when I watched that I thought they were faking her death..

[calliope1975]

Ok, don't come at me, but when I watched that I thought they were faking her death..

 

I won't come after you! I'm seeing this speculation all over social media. I don't see it happening just because MG clearly has no more fucks to give and has said this is a for real deady dead death. Also, how cruel would that be to do to Quentin? Poor guy. 

[Guest]

Ok, don't come at me, but when I watched that I thought they were faking her death..

 

I keep seeing this theory too. And I'm sorry to Laurel fans but I will rage if we're heading for a fake out death. What even was the point of all of this?

 

Not to mention that is just the height of cruelty to Quentin if it was faked.

[apinknightmare]

Why would they fake her death? Damien went straight for Felicity, and she just went on living her life. It especially makes no sense because taking her out of the equation removes her from the one place where she was actually semi-effective - as a lawyer. I think it was a really bad editing move to cut away to their private convo. I know they wanted to keep it a secret, but I don't think they intended to make it look like the death was a fakeout. 

[catrox14]

OH SHI

 

I won't come after you! I'm seeing this speculation all over social media. I don't see it happening just because MG clearly has no more fucks to give and has said this is a for real deady dead death. Also, how cruel would that be to do to Quentin? Poor guy. 

 

This has actually been my thinking all again but then I got happy that they really killed her....but shit now I'm back to thinking they faked her death and she goes into WITSEC. 

[looptab]

Hope you guys are right. It's just that..private convo, and suddenly she's having seizures? So when I watched it, plus knowing she came back for some reshoots, my mind automatically went there. I sure hope that's not the case.

[Sunshine]

That's why I think that whatever it is isn't going to paint them in the best light. Like it's going to be right before Tommy's funeral, or right after, since IIRC the flashback funeral in the next ep is his.

May I offer an even worse scenario?  The kiss takes place after Tommy's funeral.  Oliver is talking to Felicity and having a flashback to the scene.  He takes off for Lian Yu because although he was kissing Laurel "I thought of you..."  

 

I wouldn't put it past them after that final bedside conversation. 

[Guest]

I don't think the death is a fakeout, from everything we've seen and heard and KC not being on set, but I can reluctantly see why some fans might think so. It cutaway at a weird time tbh. Maybe they want people to doubt it? IDK.

[apinknightmare]

I don't think the death is a fakeout, from everything we've seen and heard and KC not being on set, but I can reluctantly see why some fans might think so. It cutaway at a weird time tbh. Maybe they want people to doubt it? IDK.

 

I think they just wanted to make sure that Oliver and Laurel's conversation was a secret (probably because they don't know what it is yet, and they want that intrigue), and didn't give much thought to the fact that it might look like they were cooking up a plan. I'm not sure how it benefits them to make people doubt it, but who knows.

[Chaser]

If it was a fake-out they wouldn't deny it, they would talk around it.

 

it's bad editing.

[Guest]

Yeah, I mean, there's articles out there announcing KC has left Arrow and the show runners have said she's dead, so logically I know she's really dead but that cutaway was weird. It must be bad editing. 

[statsgirl]

I think they're grasping at whatever they can. I know I would.

[looptab]

Okay, I haven't had the chance yet to look around the internet and read those. I'm going to keep calm for now :)

I mean, I'm no fan of hers, so it definitely isn't born out of hope - trust issues, maybe, haha.

Edited April 7, 2016 by looptab

[apinknightmare]

From Variety:

 

 

 

How suspicious should viewers be that Laurel was fine, she asked Oliver for a favor that we didn’t hear, and then she was dead. Is there any wiggle room there?

Guggenheim: That’s the joke I’ve been making, quite frankly: Oliver Queen killed her! But that was not… again, there are certain coins of the realm on our show. Death is one of them. Mysteries and secrets are another. Certainly, “what did Laurel say to Oliver?” But we didn’t intend for it to be like, she asked Oliver to euthanize her.
 

No room that Oliver drugged her and faked her death?

Guggenheim: No. We’ve done that. We’ve done a fake death before. And that’s the thing: we’re always trying to figure out what’s the way to do this. That fake-out where she was OK and then she wasn’t, that was, again, our attempt at “how do we do a death we haven’t done before?” We’ve had people killed right in front of Oliver; we’ve faked a death; we’ve had someone be fatally injured and then Oliver arrives on the scene. “Walking Dead” has this problem, too, which I suppose [the finale] episode indicates. I shouldn’t say a problem: a creative challenge. The deeper you get into your story… “Game of Thrones,” also. I don’t know what’s going to happen with Jon Snow, but that is also probably going to change things. It’s the nature of having a long-running show that deals, with a major component of it, with death.

 

So, yeah. I'm going with she's dead dead. 

[Guest]

I don't think I can handle weeks of 'Laurel's not really dead, this is a plan and is just the start of Lauriver' theories let alone a whole summer hiatus of them. BEER ME STRENGTH. 

Edited April 7, 2016 by Guest

[ArrowFan]

I think they just wanted to make sure that Oliver and Laurel's conversation was a secret (probably because they don't know what it is yet, and they want that intrigue), and didn't give much thought to the fact that it might look like they were cooking up a plan. I'm not sure how it benefits them to make people doubt it, but who knows.

 

I think they'll hold onto it til the right moment.

Kind of like Oliver seeing Felicity in Starling during 3x14 flashbacks.

Just like they did THIS episode with the photo. People would not stop asking MG about that photo.

 

Im also pretty confident the writers TOTALLY knew who was dying by 4x01, or at the very least, had it narrowed to a couple of people.

[Chaser]

I wonder if the Oliver and Laurel flashback is to the last time he said ILY.

 

It's to weird that they never had him said it when EVERYONE was going around the table. As much as I would love to believe they only want Oliver to say it to Felicity or SA waved his shipper flag and refused to say it, I don't think I'm that lucky.

[foreverevolving]

Show, come on. I'm trying to care and then the moron is carrying around a picture of herself. I just can't.

But... Oliver and Lance in the hallway? Amazing.

 

So much like for this post!

 

 

May I offer an even worse scenario?  The kiss takes place after Tommy's funeral.  Oliver is talking to Felicity and having a flashback to the scene.  He takes off for Lian Yu because although he was kissing Laurel "I thought of you..."  

 

I wouldn't put it past them after that final bedside conversation. 

No. no no no no no no no.. no! NO! just, NO!!!

 

 

So I wrote how happy I was about this on my facebook page and made a few of my friends unhappy that I spoiled it for them, cause they are a few episodes behind.. for real people? the episode aired, this is the age of social media.

Edited April 7, 2016 by foreverevolving

[BkWurm1]

Wait, there's a "likes" limit on the board?

Apparently.  I didn't think I was anywhere near the hundred limit but I guess it's been a likable day.  I did get one back.  Someone must have deleted a post, lol. 

 

 

 

I wonder if the Oliver and Laurel flashback is to the last time he said ILY.

 

It's to weird that they never had him said it when EVERYONE was going around the table. As much as I would love to believe they only want Oliver to say it to Felicity or SA waved his shipper flag and refused to say it, I don't think I'm that lucky.

Yeah, there probably be something more said about it or we'll find out they filmed a private I love you right before she died and are saving it for later, but it's ok. He loves her but he clearly is not in love with her and not even Laurel thought differently. 

[Chaser]

Do you guys remember that fan who said there was a blonde woman dressed like Laurel's BC on set? I think it was when they were filming 4x19. There is a shot in the promo of leather clad blonde woman jumping down. I thought it was flashback Laurel, but I bet some woman decides to pick up the mask and run around calling herself BC. That way they can talk about the legacy of the BC and the hero and inspiration Laurel was and yada yada yada.

 

I honestly can't think of a way that the Oliver and Laurel scene isn't going to come across bad. Oliver thinks back to his last ILY or just intimate moment with her. Okay, but present day Oliver knows Felicity is his 'always' and that Laurel was still in love with him. So he remembers that time he made Laurel believe she was it for him? That's awkward. 

 

People on tumblr/twitter are saying it could be a 'what if' thought for Oliver, but that doesn't sound right and KC said she was appearing in the flashbacks. I wonder if the reason Oliver doesn't have the pre-island wig is because the crew actually burned the wig and decided that Oliver did get hair cuts pre-island.

[lemotomato]

I'm going with Occam's Razor here-- Oliver's short hair, Laurel's brown hair, all the men at the flashback funeral--> Tommy's funeral-- and say that the O/L kiss is in the flashbacks set immediately after season 1. They were still super close in 201-- holding hands at Tommy's grave, a couple hugs-- so comfort makeouts before he left for Lian Yu would make sense.

[Guest]

I can't believe I'm gonna talk about flashbacks here but are we thinking that #Poppy doesn't actually die and she and Oliver go off to Russia by the end of the season? Or will she die and Oliver honors his promise to find her family in Russia? Could go either way at this point.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Guest

[looptab]

From Variety:

So, yeah. I'm going with she's dead dead.

Thanks for posting that. :)

[apinknightmare]

I can't believe I'm gonna talk about flashbacks here but are we thinking that #Poppy doesn't actually die and she and Oliver go off to Russia by the end of the season? Or will she die and Oliver honors his promise to find her family in Russia? Could go either way at this point.

 

She has to die - there's a grave with her name on it on Lian Yu per those stupid Merlyn comics. 

I'm going with Occam's Razor here-- Oliver's short hair, Laurel's brown hair, all the men at the flashback funeral--> Tommy's funeral-- and say that the O/L kiss is in the flashbacks set immediately after season 1. They were still super close in 201-- holding hands at Tommy's grave, a couple hugs-- so comfort makeouts before he left for Lian Yu would make sense.

 

Yeah. This is what's going to happen, and given how Tommy died it's...icky. Like everything else about them, haha. 

[Guest]

She has to die - there's a grave with her name on it on Lian Yu per those stupid Merlyn comics.  

 

Oh, is there? I didn't know that. Well okay then. So Oliver honors his promise to her then. BRATVA HERE WE COME.

[calliope1975]

Yeah. This is what's going to happen, and given how Tommy died it's...icky. Like everything else about them, haha. 

 

At least they completely killed that relationship when he was brought back to Starling. It's still not a good look though. Talk about people who deserved better - Tommy Merlyn takes up 3 slots on that list. 

[Guest]

At least they completely killed that relationship when he was brought back to Starling. It's still not a good look though. Talk about people who deserved better - Tommy Merlyn takes up 3 slots on that list. 

 

Poor Tommy Merlyn. He died for some files that probably were destroyed anyway...and never mattered because Laurel went to work for the DA's office.

 

Ugh, that whole O/L scene even did Tommy a disservice. Yuck.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Guest

[dtissagirl]

For anyone still worrying -- KC talked about the reshoots she had to go back to do a week after she wrapped -- it was for the getting stabbed by DD scene:

http://www.etonline.com/tv/186078_arrow_star_katie_cassidy_discovered_the_news_of_laurel_lance_death_right_before_a_huge_scene/

Edited April 7, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Chaser]

For anyone still worrying -- KC talked about the reshoots she had to go back to do a week after she wrapped -- it was for the getting stabbed by DD scene:

http://www.etonline.com/tv/186078_arrow_star_katie_cassidy_discovered_the_news_of_laurel_lance_death_right_before_a_huge_scene/

They really wanted to twist that knife.

 

 

Too soon?

[bijoux]

Wait, they actually had Oliver say be a hero without a mask....to fucking Laurel?  Wow...just wow. That's...wow..

 

I guess Felicity doesn't count?? WTF

It didn't come off as derogatory to Felicity to me. After all, Oliver talked about Felicity's superpower this season and he's been vocal about there needing to be heroes in the light of day sine season 2 when he supported Blood.

 

So, that shot of Laurel and Oliver kissing in the preview for next week's ep. That had to be when he first got back from the island, but by the time she could stand him enough to want to go there, she was already with Tommy. Are they really gonna show what a couple of assholes those two were...again? Or are we going to find out that they made out after his funeral, or...bleh.

I honestly thought it was a shot from season 1. Are we sure it's not? Frankly, I also thought it was something that theyy threw in the promo, not something that would necessarily be a part of the episode.

 

I think that's exactly when that happens-- after Tommy's funeral. They even have candles! How romantic! :P

 

I'm more curious about the identity of the blonde in the BC outfit jumping on the car.

 

 

That girl who shows up at the funeral? I mean, I would love it if it were Sin, because I loved Sin and it would play nicely into her being a surrogate sister for Sara. I don't think there's any chance of that.

 

May I offer an even worse scenario?  The kiss takes place after Tommy's funeral.  Oliver is talking to Felicity and having a flashback to the scene.  He takes off for Lian Yu because although he was kissing Laurel "I thought of you..."  

 

I wouldn't put it past them after that final bedside conversation. 

Let me repeat myself.

 

[lemotomato]

So from the extended promo, it sounds like Oliver is going to be the one that needs to keep everyone in the light for once. I like the role reversal.

 

Also, I just noticed that the title for 419 really is "Canary Cry". Cheers to those that guessed it first!

Edited April 7, 2016 by lemotomato

[apinknightmare]

I honestly thought it was a shot from season 1. Are we sure it's not? Frankly, I also thought it was something that theyy threw in the promo, not something that would necessarily be a part of the episode.

 

I'd be happy to be wrong, but I don't recall ever seeing it before. Didn't they just bang in front of the open window like two of the tackiest a-holes around, and then kiss once in the foyer of Queen Mansion? I don't remember anything else. I'm hoping it's old and that we aren't going to see them behaving like this after Tommy died, but I think we are. 

[Chaser]

It's an odd shot. He looks S1. She looks pre-island. 

 

Also, it looks like she got a boob job.