Spoiler Discussion Thread

[statsgirl]

My daughter watched the Diggle/Andy clip and asked "How can he not know who Malcolm Merlyn is?  He was working security in the flashback last season so he should know who the rich people in town are."

 

I wasn't paying too much attention to that episode but weren't Andy and John working a party at Merlyn Manor?

[apinknightmare]

I wasn't paying too much attention to that episode but weren't Andy and John working a party at Merlyn Manor?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's where that party was.

[nksarmi]

What the hell is that line from Laurel about not talking about the island?  JFC. The fact is that Oliver doesn't owe her any fucking explanations, That's the entitled asshole Laurel that I have hated since ep1.  Nice bookend. 

 

Can't wait for her to be gone

 

LOL call me an entitled bitch but I would have had WAY more to say to him about it than she did - like "oh really, you saw this on the island, did you?  So all the months when we couldn't figure out how to defeat the ghosts and Vixen tells us look for a totem he uses to channel his powers - you didn't think of that why? PTSD? Blocking out the bad memories until Spring every year?  What? Is this anything like when you didn't think to mention that you knew Slade on the island? Or that my sister survived the boat crash and you never actually saw he die the second time?"

 

Yea sorry - every character on the damn show has a right to be bitchy with Oliver about the crap he doesn't talk about as far as I'm concerned.  Except Merlyn - not him. But of course he probably did tell Merlyn everything - either that or Malcolm just knows because he was Ra's al Gul for five seconds.

Edited April 6, 2016 by nksarmi

[apinknightmare]

I think a better line from her would've been, "NOW you tell us?" Because that's the idiocy of it. It's pretty obvious why he wouldn't like talking about Lian Yu, haha.

[statsgirl]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's where that party was.

I get the feeling that adding Curtis to the lair would pretty much double the combined IQ of the current Team Arrow now that Felicity is gone.  (It's a shame neither David Ramsey nor Eugene Byrd pointed out to the writers that of course Andy would know who Malcolm Meryln is.)

[SonofaBiscuit]

Stephen Amell  ‏@StephenAmell

Arrow 4.18 titled 11:59 airs at 8:00.

10:10 AM - 6 Apr 2016

 

Jeez, Steve, don't get all sentimental or anything, Lol.   

[Chaser]

I'm sure all the sentimental goodbye tweets and pics will be posted after the episode airs.... I think. ...Maybe....Possibly?

[looptab]

I'm undecided if it'll be after this episode or the next.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I guess the PR team hasn't reached him yet, or he is ignoring them, LOL

[EmeraldArcher]

I guess the PR team hasn't reached him yet, or he is ignoring them, LOL

He's probably looking slightly above their heads as they talk to him.

[catrox14]

 

LOL call me an entitled bitch but I would have had WAY more to say to him about it than she did - like "oh really, you saw this on the island, did you?  S

 

Okay, you're a real person. Laurel is not.  If I wanted to call Laurel a bitch I would have. 

 

But the point is that Laurel treated Oliver like shit when he got back. Hey she had every reason to be angry and feel betrayed that he slept with her sister. That's all good and totally fine. Reasonable. Expected.

 

But then she waffled between hating him, loving him, not wanting to know anything, to wanting to know ERRYTHING. She hated Oliver but fell in love or infatuation with The Hood. She didn't care about his pain until she did.

 

What was he going to do? Be forced to sit down and right a dissertation for her about all the shit he went through that could cause him to fall apart and have flashbacks and relive the trauma all over again because she demanded to know things even though she hated him? 

 

Sorry but Entitled!Laurel is the worst for me.

[EmeraldArcher]

What the hell is that line from Laurel about not talking about the island?  JFC. The fact is that Oliver doesn't owe her any fucking explanations, That's the entitled asshole Laurel that I have hated since ep1.  Nice bookend. 

 

Can't wait for her to be gone

I had the same reaction to that line.  Out of respect for her fans on this board and part of this little fandom community, I didn't want to seem too gleeful or gloating.  But, even as the death knell strikes, she's an insensitive snot. Good riddance!

[AyChihuahua]

Yea sorry - every character on the damn show has a right to be bitchy with Oliver about the crap he doesn't talk about as far as I'm concerned.  Except Merlyn - not him. But of course he probably did tell Merlyn everything - either that or Malcolm just knows because he was Ra's al Gul for five seconds.

He should be sharing, with his whole team, RELEVANT information from the island, Hong Kong, etc. He doesn't have to tell anyone everything, but his failure to tell them super important really really relevant to the PRESENT info is, for me, ABSOLUTELY MADDENING.

[Password]

The line from Laurel made me think "what's wrong with YOU Laurel", but I agree with @nksarmi that it is AWFULLY convenient that Oliver only remembers this stuff now.

And as much as Thea was a coconspirator in the "keep William a secret" storyline I totally agree with her shocker.

Oh my gosh Felicity just needed to say that line. Even though it would sound bitter SHE DESERVES TO BE BITTER.

#ImissFelicitySoMuch

[tarotx]

I like Laurel well enough but the way she treated Oliver when he returned just made matters worse. She was all over the place, which I guess she had every right to be but they really need to leave the judgmental about the island secrets to everybody else. And I do mean everybody else except Malcolm. They should be at least encouraging him to talk to someone. Oliver really does need therapy.  

Edited April 6, 2016 by tarotx

[looptab]

I guess the PR team hasn't reached him yet, or he is ignoring them, LOL

I don't know, I thought it was very detached on purpose. The shitstorm is gonna hit them all, better not to say anything that might be misconstrued.

[EmilyBettFan]

You get Thea and Laurel together and they become snots. I like Thea I don't want to feel like this lol

Edited April 7, 2016 by EmilyBettFan

[catrox14]

 

The line from Laurel made me think "what's wrong with YOU Laurel", but I agree with @nksarmi that it is AWFULLY convenient that Oliver only remembers this stuff now.

 

Maybe Oliver was hexed or drugged to forget certain things. Look what Malcolm did to Thea. It's not out of the realm of possibility or just some kind of trauma associated with that totem as to why he didn't remember or didn't say anything.  But since that whole thing is out context to the entire episode maybe I'm totally wrong or totally right. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I don't know, I thought it was very detached on purpose. The shitstorm is gonna hit them all, better not to say anything that might be misconstrued.

Eh, they didn't seem to have the same issues with their heartfelt comments on a cast member leaving last year. They have gotten and will keep getting lots of hate over this but I don't see that getting in the way of him making a comment now if he really wanted to.

It's not a national security secret, lol. And those who would misconstrue a comment made now will misconstrue the same comment tomorrow.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[AyChihuahua]

Echo said he was off Twitter for the night. Smart man.

[looptab]

Eh, they didn't seem to have the same issues with their heartfelt comments on a cast member leaving last year. They have gotten and will keep getting lots of hate over this but I don't see that getting in the way of him making a comment now if he really wanted to.

It's not a national security secret, lol. And those who would misconstrue a comment made now will misconstrue the same comment tomorrow.

Oh, I'm sure he'll comment on it. I just think he might have wanted to be careful in advertising the ep. I could be wrong :)

And last year's comments right after shooting were either very purposeful - to draw interest and make the audience question whether someone was dying/leaving - or they have been discouraged from making the same kind of comments this year, in light of last year's.

Edited April 6, 2016 by looptab

[foreverevolving]

I'm officially ready for tonight.

 

[statsgirl]

Maybe Oliver was hexed or drugged to forget certain things. Look what Malcolm did to Thea. It's not out of the realm of possibility or just some kind of trauma associated with that totem as to why he didn't remember or didn't say anything. 

Except that it's completely in keeping with the Oliver who doesn't disclose anything to his team even under torture because he doesn't think they need to know, even though he's learned that lesson every few episodes since season one.

 

So sadly, it looks like nothing has changed.

 

ETA: wow, you really went for the good stuff, foreverevolving.

Edited April 6, 2016 by statsgirl

[Midnight Lullaby]

Oh, I'm sure he'll comment on it. I just think he might have wanted to be careful in advertising the ep. I could be wrong :)

And last year's comments right after shooting were either very purposeful - to draw interest and make the audience question whether someone was dying/leaving - or they have been discouraged from making the same kind of comments this year, in light of last year's.

I don't think last year's comments were received badly or am I wrong? They seemed really heartfelt.

I think, especially since the cat is out of the bag, tweeting something about the cast losing an important member would have been nice while silence is louder than words. I will have a hard time believing that the comments that will follow will be heartfelt and not mandatory. JMO.

[ArrowFan]

My daughter watched the Diggle/Andy clip and asked "How can he not know who Malcolm Merlyn is?  He was working security in the flashback last season so he should know who the rich people in town are."

 

I wasn't paying too much attention to that episode but weren't Andy and John working a party at Merlyn Manor?

 

Well, he may know WHO Malcolm Merlyn is, but not necessarily what he looks like.

[looptab]

I don't think last year's comments were received badly or am I wrong? They seemed really heartfelt.

I think, especially since the cat is out of the bag, tweeting something about the cast losing an important member would have been nice while silence is louder than words. I will have a hard time believing that the comments that will follow will be heartfelt and not mandatory. JMO.

I meant maybe they've been discouraged because everyone figured out Roy was leaving, and they wanted to avoid the same thing happening this year. I don't think they counted on the photos leak - although they should have. But we can agree to disagree :)

[catrox14]

Except that it's completely in keeping with the Oliver who doesn't disclose anything to his team even under torture because he doesn't think they need to know, even though he's learned that lesson every few episodes since season one.

 

So sadly, it looks like nothing has changed.

 

We don't know WHY he hasn't disclosed whatever he knows about the totem yet.

 

Maybe the totem itself fucks with a person's memory or he's repressing something awful happened because of it.  Of course that wouldn't keep the "Oliver is a purposefully secretive lying asshat" theme they want to push this season. 

[tarotx]

The writers just didn't know exactly what was going to connect the two stories. That's why Oliver didn't remember until now. Oliver's lack of remembering the Island is a character flaw though that the writers need to explain better. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I meant maybe they've been discouraged because everyone figured out Roy was leaving, and they wanted to avoid the same thing happening this year. I don't think they counted on the photos leak - although they should have. But we can agree to disagree :)

I think the people they aim to surprise are the casual viewers..people online always guess or find out everything. It remember people knew about Moira's death as well but they never took measures so I guess they are fine with it. Most of the audience isn't online anyway.

Also the photo leaked ages ago and they did a screening so they could tease that this is indeed the death episode so I don't see why now they would discourage them to post their goodbyes (without confirming who it is, like they did last year) since they made sure to inform people a cast member is leaving for good because their character dies in this episode.

[looptab]

I think the people they aim to surprise are the casual viewers..people online always guess or find out everything. It remember people knew about Moira's death as well but they never took measures so I guess they are fine with it. Most of the audience isn't online anyway.

Also the photo leaked ages ago and they did a screening so they could tease that this is indeed the death episode so I don't see why now they would discourage them to post their goodbyes (without confirming who it is, like they did last year) since they made sure to inform people a cast member is leaving for good because their character dies in this episode.

But every other time they commented on the actor leaving /after/ the episode aired, so..?

My point in the previous posts was that they might have been discouraged in hinting at who was leaving at the moment they were shooting those scenes, not forever. Of course the cast is going to say something. How true or heartfelt those words are, there's no way of knowing.

[catrox14]

 

Oliver's lack of remembering the Island is a character flaw though that the writers need to explain better.

 

My problem with Oliver's spotty memory or repression or what have you being considered a character "flaw" is that it's completely dismissive of the trauma that Oliver experienced. Memory loss, fuzzy memories all of that is a real thing for someone that experiences the kind of trauma Oliver did.

 

I just figured Oliver's own team members and family might just for a moment consider that as an option instead of jumping to "Well aren't you a dick for not sharing". 

 

I thought Oliver's reaction to Laurel was interesting because he genuinely looked more confused and nonplussed than defensive about it. I think the totem is going to be used to reveal a really truly horrific thing he's been repressing.

[Midnight Lullaby]

But every other time they commented on the actor leaving /after/ the episode aired, so..?

My point in the previous posts was that they might have been discouraged in hinting at who was leaving at the moment they were shooting those scenes, not forever. Of course the cast is going to say something. How true or heartfelt those words are, there's no way of knowing.

Well no. We just talked about what happened with Colton.

They didn't hint that Colton was the person leaving last year either, but it became obvious when Colton kept posting pics of himself doing everything but filming and we all knew story-wise it was going to be either Roy or Thea.

It's true, there's no way of knowing what their true feelings are, but I disagree about the idea that the CW could have told them to keep quiet when the fact that someone is leaving has been the way to create buzz this year or that they could be keeping quiet because of the haters since they will react tomorrow in the way they would have reacted today.

[Genki]

It might be the death Episode but tonight isn't KC's final episode so I think posting "Good-byes" isn't the right time for now. 

 

I haven't watched the clip, since I usually don't but, I will give Oliver a pass for not recognising the Idol since Vixen smashed it and maybe he didn't get enough time to look at it whole...I don't know.

 

Regardless if they are going to reassemble it, maybe they should leave 15% of the Statue pieces at Star Labs or something so the power can't come back.

 

 

My problem with Oliver's spotty memory or repression or what have you being considered a character "flaw" is that it's completely dismissive of the trauma that Oliver experienced. Memory loss, fuzzy memories all of that is a real thing for someone that experiences the kind of trauma Oliver did.

 

I just figured Oliver's own team members and family might just for a moment consider that as an option instead of jumping to "Well aren't you a dick for not sharing". 

 

I thought Oliver's reaction to Laurel was interesting because he genuinely looked more confused and nonplussed than defensive about it. I think the totem is going to be used to reveal a really truly horrific thing he's been repressing.

 

 

I have a bad enough memory without any traumatic life altering event.

[tarotx]

I get that repressed memories and memory loss period is a PTSD symptom but Oliver doesn't open up about that either. Oliver needs therapy. 

[statsgirl]

Repression or not, Laurel's remark was really out of line, and I blame the writing for that entirely.  It's time for her to stop being a bitch about Oliver's past.

 

It would have been much better for her to say something like "Tell us about when  you saw it".

 

Well, he may know WHO Malcolm Merlyn is, but not necessarily what he looks like.

Maybe.  But if I were hired to do security at a house party, I'd want to look up the house and its owner on-line first because I'm curious. 

[looptab]

Well no. We just talked about what happened with Colton.

They didn't hint that Colton was the person leaving last year either, but it became obvious when Colton kept posting pics of himself doing everything but filming and we all knew story-wise it was going to be either Roy or Thea.

It's true, there's no way of knowing what their true feelings are, but I disagree about the idea that the CW could have told them to keep quiet when the fact that someone is leaving has been the way to create buzz this year or that they could be keeping quiet because of the haters since they will react tomorrow in the way they would have reacted today.

...I didn't say they were being discouraged Now. I meant at the time of shooting, and still be enforced. But I guess I am not succeding in explaining myself, and anyway it was just an hypotesis? So I'd say we drop this. :) Edited April 6, 2016 by looptab

[AyChihuahua]

There's never been any in-show indication that Oliver CAN'T remember. The flashbacks are mostly his, after all, and they're perfectly clear. It's mostly bad writing, that makes him look like he's withholding incredibly relevant information. He can keep his secrets as much as he likes, right up until those secrets adversely affect people in present day. 

[looptab]

Yeah, until the show doesn't say that he has repressed memories or issues like that, his reticence it's just bad writing.

Edited April 6, 2016 by looptab

[catrox14]

There's never been any in-show indication that Oliver CAN'T remember. The flashbacks are mostly his, after all, and they're perfectly clear. It's mostly bad writing, that makes him look like he's withholding incredibly relevant information. He can keep his secrets as much as he likes, right up until those secrets adversely affect people in present day. 

 

Other than in the first season and when he's been drugged up and hallucinating, I never took the flashbacks to be anything more than a storytelling device, not that Oliver is remembering those events at the moment they shift to the flashback.

[bijoux]

No Cliffhangers!  Stupid shows pissing me off with stupid cliffhangers

 

I would be fine with a) a flashback cliffhanger, b) something that turns the present day narrative on its head without leaving any of the main characters in imminent danger. Say, Papa Smoak is the real big bad, or Andy is actually higher ranking in HIVE than DD ever was. 

 

 S01 I think it ended with Oliver and Diggle looking at the ruined Glades.

I think it was actually a pan out from Laurel and Lance in front of CNRI.

 

 

Because it is entirely possible he repressed memories of those 5 years away because it was one trauma after another. 

 

This is one direction I really wish they would take this. Because it's gotten stale and this is such a believable, human way for it to be explained. You could even mix up Oliver's feelings of shame that he's been mentally and psychologically affected this way, causing him to clamp up even more. Or, have him recognize something next season from his time away, share it straight off the bat and then honestly say he has no clue what the importance of the thing really is, resulting in him having to work with the team to figure it out.

[BkWurm1]

The DA offer would probably have more of an impact of they spent time on Laurel as an ADA.

We went back and forth a few times this season on what she actually was.

No kidding.  I've been flat out told several times in other places that she is already the DA.  Some viewers are going to be very confused, lol.  Oh well, their confusion won't last long. 

Edited April 6, 2016 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

I thought the DA position was an elected one in the US?  Or is Star City different?

[BkWurm1]

2 hours and 29 minutes to go!!

[bijoux]

So, I guess we learnt that SC is a place in which the mayor appoints the DA. Wouldn't it have been cool if Oliver piped up from the sidelines, Erm, you don't actually have the authority to offer that position, you do know that, don't you?

 

I did smile at the 48% of write in votes. You big dodo, they love you for yourself. If only you would let them. But I am also heartened that so many people there actually seem to have somewhat functioning brains and would elect the guy they saw put in the work over five or six months and not some unknown woman who popped up at the last second. I do think a good portion of those voters wrote him in in hopes that being elected would get him on some Q&A platform and they could get the dirt on the Olicity break up. Because hey, very public proposal and subsequend shooting and paralysis, followed by them sticking together through the tough times, only to have Oliver drop out of the race for no apparent reason after facing down a threat that was pointed at his nearest and dearest, then Felicity starts walking again, there's an elopement interrupted by a crazy person, only for them to then break up. I can just imagine the city hall meeting now. Mayor Queen, thank you for putting speed bumps on our street. It makes all parents feel so much safer. Now, what's the skinny, do you snore horrifically, is that why she dumped you?

[catrox14]

DA's are both appointed and elected depending on the district. It's not the same everywhere AFAIK

 

 

2 hours and 29 minutes to go!!

 

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by catrox14

[Morrigan2575]

Any last thoughts on the "him"?

I went back to it being Darhk and I guessed an alleyway but now I think it happens at the prison

[AyChihuahua]

I thought the DA position was an elected one in the US?  Or is Star City different?

It depends on the jurisdiction. In NYC it's elected (each borough has its own). In Indiana, each county has its own elected "Prosecutor." In NJ, the equivalent position is appointed by the governor. For US Attorneys, main one per jurisdiction (e.g., SDNY is Manhattan, in charge of a LOT of financial areas so very powerful and visible), appointed by the President, but the lawyers doing the work under the US Atty are bureaucrats. 

 

Also, the political/legal/business stuff on this show is BATSHIT crazy, so I'm suspending disbelief all over the place.

 

In Washington State, DAs are elected, by county. I THINK SC is supposed to be Seattle (such a bad fit in every way other than geographically, bc Seattle is incredibly forward-thinking, liberal, wealthy, and educated, but whatevs).  (Fun fact, I worked for the King County Prosecutor-Sexually Violent Predators Unit, in college at UW. Really fun, not at all horrifying.)

Edited April 6, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[nksarmi]

Okay, you're a real person. Laurel is not.  If I wanted to call Laurel a bitch I would have. 

 

But the point is that Laurel treated Oliver like shit when he got back. Hey she had every reason to be angry and feel betrayed that he slept with her sister. That's all good and totally fine. Reasonable. Expected.

 

But then she waffled between hating him, loving him, not wanting to know anything, to wanting to know ERRYTHING. She hated Oliver but fell in love or infatuation with The Hood. She didn't care about his pain until she did.

 

What was he going to do? Be forced to sit down and right a dissertation for her about all the shit he went through that could cause him to fall apart and have flashbacks and relive the trauma all over again because she demanded to know things even though she hated him? 

 

Sorry but Entitled!Laurel is the worst for me.

 

It's not that.  It's that the only season where the writers pulled off the flashbacks without having Oliver know some vital piece of information and keep it to himself until just the "right" moment so they could match up the flashbacks with present day was season one!

 

So, I do think Laurel and any other member of the team is entitled to have him talk to them about all the weird shit he encountered on the island.  He doesn't need to talk to them about his feelings for Shado or how it felt the first time he had to kill to eat, but this crap about not telling them important stuff until the flashbacks are ready to reveal crap really makes Oliver look bad.

 

So yea, I'm on Laurel's side here.

[nksarmi]

I like Laurel well enough but the way she treated Oliver when he returned just made matters worse. She was all over the place, which I guess she had every right to be but they really need to leave the judgmental about the island secrets to everybody else. And I do mean everybody else except Malcolm. They should be at least encouraging him to talk to someone. Oliver really does need therapy.  

 

Well yes but in Laurel's defense - because Sara was also on the island and Oliver supposedly cared about righting the wrong he did those two sisters when he shagged one while dating the other - he probably did owe her a little sit down at some point to talk about a few things. I know there is a lot to hold against Laurel and it is a badly worded line - but Oliver still deserves all the shade in the world for his tendency to withhold important information until plot dictates it is revealed.

We don't know WHY he hasn't disclosed whatever he knows about the totem yet.

 

Maybe the totem itself fucks with a person's memory or he's repressing something awful happened because of it.  Of course that wouldn't keep the "Oliver is a purposefully secretive lying asshat" theme they want to push this season. 

 

Oh hell if the writers even bothered to give us a stupid reason - I'd be impressed.  I would accept really stupid reasons but let's face it - the writers know it's stupid for Oliver not to reveal this stuff until the flashbacks line up so they just don't even both to explain it.

[catrox14]

Well yes but in Laurel's defense - because Sara was also on the island and Oliver supposedly cared about righting the wrong he did those two sisters when he shagged one while dating the other - he probably did owe her a little sit down at some point to talk about a few things. I know there is a lot to hold against Laurel and it is a badly worded line - but Oliver still deserves all the shade in the world for his tendency to withhold important information until plot dictates it is revealed.

 

But how is Oliver supposed to tell them ALL the things if something doesn't trigger him to THINK about all the things? This what I can't understand about the anger towards Oliver for not telling things that he can't tell because he doesn't recollect them OR he legitimately doesn't think it will necessarily be a THING again.   I mean it's not like Oliver is writing a memoir here  nor should he.