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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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looptab

looptab

What if the season ends with everyone leaving, and Oliver the only one in the lair? BTW, that's the right thing to show, when people accuse you to write the show for Twitter and Tumblr. :@

So, there are 2 Lances crossovers? One before the Gambit and another later?

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

I don't know if it's a good thing or bad thing that we don't really have any idea of what's going to happen beyond 418. I think at this point last year, we'd at least guessed that Oliver was going to join the LoA in 321. And there was all that speculation about the second wedding. And that SA's favorite Olicity scene was on a plane headed to Nanda Parbat.

 

But then again, we had a sizzle reel last year because of the Arrow Paleyfest panel. And an extended promo for episodes 19-21 that got released on April 2, aka the day all Olicity fans freaked the fuck out.

Edited by lemotomato
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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

 

But then again, we had a sizzle reel last year because of the Arrow Paleyfest panel. And an extended promo for episodes 19-21 that got released on April 2, aka the day all Olicity fans freaked the fuck out.

 

 

I appreciate that you know the exact date that the life changing sizzle reel was released. Will it be an annual holiday?  Do we observe it by lighting 175 candles?

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

I appreciate that you know the exact date that the life changing sizzle reel was released. Will it be an annual holiday?  Do we observe it by lighting 175 candles?

I remember it was April 2 because I kept checking the date to make sure it wasn't an April Fools Day joke :P Also because the show was suuuuuper depressing last season at this point and I was wondering why I kept watching. And then the promo with the sex scene was released. 

 

Lighting that many candles is probably a fire hazard. We could just post gifs of the promo in the relationship thread instead.

Edited by lemotomato
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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

I remember it was April 2 because I kept checking the date to make sure it wasn't an April Fools Day joke :P Also because the show was suuuuuper depressing last season at this point and I was wondering why I kept watching. And then the promo with the sex scene was released. 

 

Lighting that many candles is probably a fire hazard. We could just post gifs of the promo in the relationship thread instead.

To be fair, I could not believe they were revealing the sex scene, so I can understand why you assumed it might be an April Fools Day joke.  Without League minions, the first candles would be out by the time we lit the last, so I agree, the promo gifs are the safer and more entertaining way to go. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Please God let this be an April Fool's Day joke.

 

I doubt it.I'm glad I don't watch the Flash :)

 

I was wondering how in the world Laurel is a vigilante in earth too as well... And then I remembered, Laurel's journey was always one based on 'destiny'... At least that's what the show tried to show us with the whole "I've always been heading towards this mask" comment.

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Chaser

Chaser

I wonder if she is hooking up with Robert Queen.

It's not an April Fool's Joke. There are set pics of her. GATV mentioned E2 BC once moved over to E1. I don't for a second believe KC is coming back to Arrow, but Flash could be another story.

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Ruby25

Ruby25

(edited)

Hey, if they're killing her off they might as well set it in stone for comics fans at least, that Dinah Laurel Lance was THE Black Canary on all earths, universes, etc., even one where Oliver Queen is dead. Maybe on this earth she even goes by "Dinah."

 

That's kinda the least they can do, considering how badly they screwed up this iconic character from the very beginning.

Edited by Ruby25
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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

(edited)

Unfortunately, KC still being on any of the sets (Arrow, Flash, LoT) allows people to still have hope that she'll come back whether it's E1 Laurel or E2 or whatever. I'm not looking forward to that. I really wanted Laurel to die once and for all and not have to deal with her so people can move on. *sigh* Fandoming is going to be all the more painful.

No kidding.  And I'm kind of pissed at Guggenheim because this was supposed to be the really-dead-no-take-backs death.  I consider bringing E2 Laurel into the universe a cheat, even if she never sets foot on E1.

Edited by thegirlsleuth
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Chaser

Chaser

Unfortunately, KC still being on any of the sets (Arrow, Flash, LoT) allows people to still have hope that she'll come back whether it's E1 Laurel or E2 or whatever. I'm not looking forward to that. I really wanted Laurel to die once and for all and not have to deal with her so people can move on. *sigh* Fandoming is going to be all the more painful.

Same. I'm hoping they close E2 permenantly so it ends that possiblity. Frankly, bringing her back in any way is a cheat.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

If they're killing her off they might as well set it in stone for comics fans at least, that Dinah Laurel Lance was THE Black Canary on all earths, universes, etc., even one where Oliver Queen is dead.

 

That's kinda the least they can do, considering how badly they screwed up this iconic character from the very beginning.

 

Like I said, it IS her destiny regardless of how nonsensical her becoming a vigilante is :p So it makes sense with what the show wanted to portray with Laurel.

No kidding.  And I'm kind of pissed at Guggenheim because this was supposed to be the really-dead-no-take-backs death.  I consider bringing E2 Laurel into the universe a cheat, even if she never sets foot on E1.

 

I don't think Guggenheim has anything to do with it. It's more to do with Kreisberg and Berlanti imo...

Edited by wonderwall
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lemotomato

lemotomato

No kidding.  And I'm kind of pissed at Guggenheim because this was supposed to be the really-dead-no-take-backs death.  I consider bringing E2 Laurel into the universe a cheat, even if she never sets foot on E1.

I don't know if I'd blame MG for this one. I see Andrew Kreisberg's fingerprints all over, though. Too bad for him that he's already killed off Oliver in E2, otherwise he could have had his GA/BC couple and make her a meta too.

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spartan

spartan

Same. I'm hoping they close E2 permenantly so it ends that possiblity. Frankly, bringing her back in any way is a cheat.

What it would be like? laurel earth laurel 1 and 2 of the earth do not know each other. They certainly have different behaviors. So OLIVER AND OTHeR do not know, I do not see how this could help that laurel never appear.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

Just looking at the dates... 

 

Episode 2x22 of Flash airs: May 17th -- Where we see photos of KC on set

Episode 1x16 of LoT airs: May 19th -- Where we see photos of the graveyard scene

 

So it's definitely E2 Laurel. But yeah... No copouts please. 

Edited by wonderwall
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bijoux

bijoux

I don't know if I'd blame MG for this one. I see Andrew Kreisberg's fingerprints all over, though. Too bad for him that he's already killed off Oliver in E2, otherwise he could have had his GA/BC couple and make her a meta too.

 

That couple can still happen. There's no Oliver on Earth 2, but there is a Green Arrow.

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Ruby25

Ruby25

(edited)

I don't know if I'd blame MG for this one. I see Andrew Kreisberg's fingerprints all over, though. Too bad for him that he's already killed off Oliver in E2, otherwise he could have had his GA/BC couple and make her a meta too.

Oh, man. Yeah, that's too bad, that would have been a perfect send-off. Give us one little glimpse of GA/BC as what they could have and should have been. Yeah, I bet he's bummed about that too, lol- although at the point the E2 episodes were written, they probably didn't know it was Laurel dying. If they did, I bet we might have gotten that.

Edited by Ruby25
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Chaser

Chaser

They are capitalizing on the death. IMO it undermines what they are doing on Arrow. It's frustrating.

It's also probably going to suck for them. It's just going to ignite the fandom again.

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Chaser

Chaser

Oh, man. Yeah, that's too bad, that would have been a perfect send-off. Give us one little glimpse of GA/BC as what they could have and should have been. Yeah, I bet he's bummed about that too, lol- although at the point the E2 episodes were written, they probably didn't know it was Laurel dying. If they did, I bet we might have gotten that.

They knew she was in the grave. It actually wouldn't surprise me if they have her reference Tommy.

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Ruby25

Ruby25

I don't think they knew yet. The Flash episode 2x13 was being written last November/December, and the Arrow writers were claiming at that time they hadn't decided yet. Although I guess they could have been lying, but it does seem to me that they make a lot of stuff up as they go along.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

That couple can still happen. There's no Oliver on Earth 2, but there is a Green Arrow.

Robert Queen and Laurel? Well, I guess they'll be sticking to the comic canon age difference. If that happens I wonder if she'll have the same history as E1 Laurel, like, she dated Ollie before he died. 

 

They are capitalizing on the death. IMO it undermines what they are doing on Arrow. It's frustrating.

It's also probably going to suck for them. It's just going to ignite the fandom again.

Given all the cheap shots on Flash about GA, I'm not surprised AK would do something like this to undermine Arrow. Especially if it's in service for his pet character, BC.

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bijoux

bijoux

What does 2x13 have to do with it if Earth 2 Laurel supposedly shows up in 2x22?

 

 

Robert Queen and Laurel? Well, I guess they'll be sticking to the comic canon age difference. If that happens I wonder if she'll have the same history as E1 Laurel, like, she dated Ollie before he died. 

If the goal is GA/BC, yes.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

What does 2x13 have to do with it if Earth 2 Laurel supposedly shows up in 2x22?

 

 

If the goal is GA/BC, yes.

 

213 was when the show specified that Oliver in E2 is dead, therefore, OQs version of GA/BC not happening would've had to have been decided while they were writing this episode. 

 

And tbh I thoroughly believe that the writers made the decision to kill off Laurel in December, BUT I also don't think that the writers really considered LL when they stated OQ died in the Gambit

Edited by wonderwall
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Chaser

Chaser

I don't think they knew yet. The Flash episode 2x13 was being written last November/December, and the Arrow writers were claiming at that time they hadn't decided yet. Although I guess they could have been lying, but it does seem to me that they make a lot of stuff up as they go along.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about The Flash episode being filmed now. Do you mean if they knew she was in the grave they wouldn't have had Robert Queen be the GA on E2 and instead would have made Oliver so they could their GA and BC as a sendoff?

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spartan

spartan

213 was when the show specified that Oliver in E2 is dead, therefore, OQs version of GA/BC not happening would've had to have been decided while they were writing this episode. 

 

And tbh I thoroughly believe that the writers made the decision to kill off Laurel in December...

yes, and I'm sure Katie has learned in January, during the filming of episode 15, it was at this time that she had changed her twitter, but it looks like she knew nothing of the story E2 Laurel

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Ruby25

Ruby25

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about The Flash episode being filmed now. Do you mean if they knew she was in the grave they wouldn't have had Robert Queen be the GA on E2 and instead would have made Oliver so they could their GA and BC as a sendoff?

Well, in theory that's possible. But actually, I'm sure that Flash writers didn't know in December that they were going to have KC guest star in the penultimate episode of the season either. I mean, they may have decided to do this AFTER hearing that Arrow was going to kill her off. So who knows.

 

I do think that if they hadn't decided to toss in that line about Oliver dying, Kreisberg would never have missed the chance to show a glimpse of the "true" GA/BC couple that never got to be seen on Arrow in this episode, even if just for a second.

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spartan

spartan

I do not understand people who say that it is to say goodbye they bring laurel earth 2, they do not know, and they have very different lives,Bring another laurel causes new tensions

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

I do think that if they hadn't decided to toss in that line about Oliver dying, Kreisberg would never have missed the chance to show a glimpse of the "true" GA/BC couple that never got to be seen on Arrow in this episode, even if just for a second.

He'd probably put a van dyke on Oliver for good measure.

 

Now I'm imagining AK and KC on set, singing "We could have had it aaaallll!"

Edited by lemotomato
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

I do not understand people who say that it is to say goodbye they bring laurel earth 2, they do not know, and they have very different lives,Bring another laurel causes new tensions

 

One of the biggest issues I have with the show is its very bloated cast, which causes a lot of other problems on the show like:

-Sloppier action scenes

-Too many characters = a lot of interactions are limited. This show isn't an ensemble and can never be one

-A bloated cast means someone's bound to get sidelined

-More characters to focus on means that the show has less time to focus on developing the plot/main villain

 

Killing off a member of the team would've helped alleviate it. Bringing that character back? Doesn't fix the problem at all...

Edited by wonderwall
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looptab

looptab

KC started acting strange during the shooting of 4x09. She knew what was up when she read the script. And yes KC is leaving the Berlanti universe for good.

Strange how? I don't remember at the moment, haha.

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Chaser

Chaser

I hope this was planned all along and they are not backtracking.

I'm not seeing any backtracking here. This episode was written weeks ago, before anything was spoilered. I think they are just taking advantage of the death.

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spartan

spartan

One of the biggest issues I have with the show is its very bloated cast, which causes a lot of other problems on the show like:

-Sloppier action scenes

-Too many characters = a lot of interactions are limited. This show isn't an ensemble and can never be one

-A bloated cast means someone's bound to get sidelined

-More characters to focus on means that the show has less time to focus on developing the plot/main villain

 

Killing off a member of the team would've helped alleviate it. Bringing that character back? Doesn't fix the problem at all...

I know but they have a clear idea, I really doubt that's just for another goodbye for the reasons I already invoked or so, this new laurel remain in the flash 

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Velocity23

Velocity23

4x09 was the episode with bunch of LL/BC stuff that were mostly filmed by Atlin. Kc not being on set while the reporters were doing their big rounds. Granted Willa and David also didnt do them, but they were busy filming.

It was obvious she knew something was up during SDCC already. Also around the time she dropped L/O push at cons and started going for Birds Of Prey spin-off more. You could see all the little piece starting to point at her.

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spartan

spartan

4x09 was the episode with bunch of LL/BC stuff that were mostly filmed by Atlin. Kc not being on set while the reporters were doing their big rounds. Granted Willa and David also didnt do them, but they were busy filming.

It was obvious she knew something was up during SDCC already. Also around the time she dropped L/O push at cons and started going for Birds Of Prey spin-off more. You could see all the little piece starting to point at her.

I think she knew in January, as she was at this time that "she changed her twitter and nothing was posting related arrow.

For photos on flash, I also believe that she did had no idea, and she was discovered a few weeks ago. Now it remains to see what will happen with this new character, can be nothing special

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lemotomato

lemotomato

I don't watch The Flash; how does the E2 stuff work anyway? When E2 people come here, do they get sent back to E2 by the end of the episode, or do they stay? I don't like the even smallest possibility that BC comes back to Arrow via a Flash plot device.

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looptab

looptab

I'm not seeing any backtracking here. This episode was written weeks ago, before anything was spoilered. I think they are just taking advantage of the death.

Was it, though? The photos leaked by the end of February. Not doubting you, BTW, nor am I now going to claim that she's coming back, just thinking out loud :)
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