Spoiler Discussion Thread

[bijoux]

See, my mind instead went the opposite direction and I thought they'd likely have Felicity tell Curtis how he has to lie lie LIE to his husband, and then, ta-dah, that realization would bring her closer to forgive Oliver. Hope they don't take that route.

 

Thanks for the laugh.

[looptab]

Thanks for the laugh.

You're welcome :) 

[Morrigan2575]

See, my mind instead went the opposite direction and I thought they'd likely have Felicity tell Curtis how he has to lie lie LIE to his husband, and then, ta-dah, that realization would bring her closer to forgive Oliver. Hope they don't take that route.

 

Don't sweeps start on 4/28?

Yes, which is why I think they're going to air 420-423 straight to get 4 Sweeps weeks.  May Sweeps starts Thursday 4/28-Wednesday 5/25.

418 - 4/6

419 - 4/13

2 Week Break

420 - 5/4

421 - 5/11

422 - 5/18

4/23 - 5/25

 

That schedule makes the most sense to me.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

The Futon Critic, which I trust re: schedule about a trillion times better than IMDb, agrees with your schedule, although they haven't put 419 on the schedule yet:

 

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/showatch/arrow/listings/

 

Linked titles = confirmed dates, unlinked = projected dates.

Edited March 18, 2016 by dtissagirl

[looptab]

Yes, which is why I think they're going to air 420-423 straight to get 4 Sweeps weeks.  May Sweeps starts Thursday 4/28-Wednesday 5/25.

418 - 4/6

419 - 4/13

2 Week Break

420 - 5/4

421 - 5/11

422 - 5/18

4/23 - 5/25

 

That schedule makes the most sense to me.

 I just asked for confirmation on the start date  because of the 4 out of 5 weeks comment ;) But I agree, i made the same speculation on the schedule in the post right above your previous one - my only doubt was on whether the break would be after 418 or 419. :)

[nksarmi]

If the death is 18 and the funeral is 19 - I hope they air those together without breaking.  That would give us a clean slate going into the 20-23 run.  That would be my preference anyway.

[Morrigan2575]

 I just asked for confirmation on the start date  because of the 4 out of 5 weeks comment ;) But I agree, i made the same speculation on the schedule in the post right above your previous one - my only doubt was on whether the break would be after 418 or 419. :)

Yeah, I went back and edited it because I was confused as well...I'm not quite sure what I was thinking, I meant 4 out of 4...

[nksarmi]

416 is Cupid right?

 

What is 417? Why would MG call that the funniest episode they have ever done?

[looptab]

Yeah, I went back and edited it because I was confused as well...I'm not quite sure what I was thinking, I meant 4 out of 4...

Happens to the best of us ;)

[apinknightmare]

What is 417? Why would MG call that the funniest episode they have ever done?

 

4x17 seems to be Curtis helping the team while Donna, Thea, and Felicity are trapped because the Bug Eyed Bandit is holding them hostage at PT over Felicity's spinal implant. I can see why there'd be a lot of opportunity for humor here. Whether they actually deliver or not, I guess we'll see.  

Edited March 18, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

416 is Cupid right?

 

What is 417? Why would MG call that the funniest episode they have ever done?

Brie Larson takes Donna/Thea/Felicity hostage while Curtis teams up with TA to help save the ladies while Oliver lies dying on the medical table.

 

As for the funny, I can see Curtis' reaction to finding out that Oliver is GA and all that to be rather amusing.  I can also see scenes with Donna/Felicity/Thea/Brie being amusing even while being dangerous/intense.  

 

I think we all need to remember that MG oversells...all the time.

[Password]

I'm holding out that episode 16 will be an unexpected gift.

Episode 16 of season 3 was.

[AyChihuahua]

It's funny, the premise of 417 is completely horrifying. The villain wants to remove the implant from Felicity's spine, meaning at best it's removed surgically, under anesthesia, and Felicity is paralyzed again (which IRL would probably be her worst fear for awhile). At worst it means Brie is perfectly willing to have one of her henchmen RIP the implant out of Felicity's spine, killing her horribly.

 

But har har, Curtis finds out about Oliver being the Green Arrow, and hilarity ensues instead!!!

 

This show is so weird.

Edited March 18, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[EmeraldArcher]

Maybe not just Oliver but also Felicity and the rest of TGA learn that, in order to continue fighting crime in Star City effectively, sometimes they have to kill and the rest of the time they don't.

 

Regarding Felicity succumbing to the darkness, wasn't Felicity's back story partly about her not succumbing to the darkness? Not becoming an evil hacktivist like Cooper?  In the Hallucination Felicity episode, she said that she used to be that angry Goth girl (probably due to abandonment issues) but not any more.

 

I know my theory is a long shot, but I'm groping in the dark for points of comparison/contrast between #Olivoppy and Olicity.

 

So far, we only have that Oliver lied to both women, but Poppy seems to have forgiven him* whereas Felicity hasn't yet, and her frosty demeanor in the limo might indicate ongoing tension.  It's so hard to tell at this point.  I just don't think that what we've seen so far (the lies) can be the point of comparison.

 

We also know that both women have now commanded him to kill somebody.  I agree with others that sometimes killing is justified, so that isn't necessarily an indication of Felicity going dark so much as evidence of her pragmatism.

 

Felicity has consistently stayed above the fray this season--she has almost always done the right, ethical thing and counseled Oliver on doing the right, ethical thing.  That's why I thought it would be interesting if the upcoming death is enough to shake up her ethical foundation.  But, I guess that wouldn't be in line with a lighter season if the show's light went dark.

 

*Poppy and her reactions are so problematic given the ick factor of her being a slave and the power differential between her and Oliver. Ugh.

[looptab]

When they mentioned BEB being interested in the implant, I thought they referred to the schematics for the tech, not the actual one implanted in Felicity's spine?

[tv echo]

I don't know whether to believe this or not (considering the site source), but according to this MoviePilot article, there's a Believe spinoff series called Believe: Resurgence that is in the works at NBC and that will star Jamie Chung and Katie Cassidy...
http://moviepilot.com/posts/3827878

 

ETA: I have been unable to find any other source that would confirm even a Believe spinoff series being in the works.  The above article also incorrectly refers to Jamie Chung as "the British boy actor from OUAT and Heroes: Reborn."  I think he meant Robbie Kay.  Jamie Chung is an American actress (and former Real World participant.)

Edited March 18, 2016 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

When they mentioned BEB being interested in the implant, I thought they referred to the schematics for the tech, not the actual one implanted in Felicity's spine?

That would certainly be less horrifying, but if that were the case it seems like there would be a much easier way to get them.

[Chaser]

I don't know whether to believe this or not (considering the site source), but according to this MoviePilot article, there's a Believe spinoff series called Believe: Resurgence that is in the works at NBC and that will star Jamie Chung and Katie Cassidy...

http://moviepilot.com/posts/3827878

ETA: I have been unable to find any other source that would confirm even a Believe spinoff series being in the works. The above article also incorrectly refers to Jamie Chung as "the British boy actor from OUAT and Heroes: Reborn."

I'm going with fake.

[ComicFan777]

That would certainly be less horrifying, but if that were the case it seems like there would be a much easier way to get them.

 

Episode description: "Brie Larvan (guest star Emily Kinney) breaks out of jail and turns up at Palmer Tech threatening to kill everyone unless she gets the bio-chip that is implanted in Felicity’s (Emily Bett Rickards) spine." - makes me think the actual implant.

 

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah that's sounds like a load of crap.  So NBC canceled a show after 1 season (just 2 years ago) but they're going to greelight a spin-off of a failed show?  That's some piss poor management right there.

[AyChihuahua]

Episode description: "Brie Larvan (guest star Emily Kinney) breaks out of jail and turns up at Palmer Tech threatening to kill everyone unless she gets the bio-chip that is implanted in Felicity’s (Emily Bett Rickards) spine." - makes me think the actual implant.

 

Aaaaaaand, we're back to horrifying. LBR, she didn't bring a surgeon, surgical implements, and an anesthesiologist with her. She most likely plans to kill Felicity and cut it out, or just cut/rip it out without first killing her. HORRIFYING. But instead, we're all going to laugh about Curtis finding out about Oliver.

[dtissagirl]

I actually watched Believe, because where Alfonso Cuarón goes so do I, but LOL NO.

 

The same guy who posted that, wrote an article yesterday saying FOX has renewed Sleepy Hollow. Which hasn't happened.

[tv echo]

MoviePilot is an 'interesting' site because apparently they let anyone post just about anything.  I read another article over there where the writer was posting the theory that Felicity is evil and has been evil all along, with a five-year evil plan, and that she'll shock everyone and turn out to be the Big Bad in S5. The "evidence" used included the fact that she has an evil father (inherited bad genes) and some quote by SA about the show having a five-year plan.

Edited March 18, 2016 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

MoviePilot is a blogging platform pretending to be an entertainment news site.

[Password]

Aaaaaaand, we're back to horrifying. LBR, she didn't bring a surgeon, surgical implements, and an anesthesiologist with her. She most likely plans to kill Felicity and cut it out, or just cut/rip it out without first killing her. HORRIFYING. But instead, we're all going to laugh about Curtis finding out about Oliver.

I admit you're the first person I've come across to take the "get the chip" so literally. But it makes sense given that she's demanding it. I didn't watch The Flash when Felicity fought the bee woman. Is she a murderer?

[Carrie Ann]

Brie wanting to take Felicity's implant is supposed to be horrifying. I don't see the problem with Felicity being threatened, aside from the fact that the paralysis storyline has been problematic from the start. But no one here actually believes Brie will be successful in getting the implant from Felicity, right? So the problem here is that there may be "funny" moments that take place in the same episode as the horrifying thing which is not actually going to happen?

 

Characters are threatened or hurt every episode--some in ways very personal and scary--and yet there have almost always been moments of levity, often from Felicity herself, who was then criticized for being inappropriate.

 

As far as how Felicity feels about it, and whether having lighter moments in that episode is somehow disrespectful to the grave threat she's under, it's entirely possible that the show is going to play this as though Felicity never once believes it is going to happen, and that she's angry about it, and spends the episode scheming with Thea and her mom. Even if not, the show has balanced this kind of thing before, and given that I'm pretty sure the "humor" of this episode will barely register (if MG's other example of 407) is anything to go by, I'm not going to get up in arms about it in advance.

[AyChihuahua]

I admit you're the first person I've come across to take the "get the chip" so literally. But it makes sense given that she's demanding it. I didn't watch The Flash when Felicity fought the bee woman. Is she a murderer?

How else would she get it? The episode synopsis says she wants the chip implanted in Felicity's spine. It's a physical thing, so it would have to be removed physically. That means either surgically or violently. If it turns out she just wants a readout or schematics, that's okay (but would mean the synopsis is pretty inaccurate).

 

I think in the comics she had one of her henchmen dangle Felicity out the window. If Oliver (ETA: apparently it was Barry) hadn't saved her I believe that the Bandit would have had her people kill Felicity. I didn't watch the Flash episode either, bc YUCK Ray Palmer, but I THINK her bees killed people.

Brie wanting to take Felicity's implant is supposed to be horrifying. I don't see the problem with Felicity being threatened, aside from the fact that the paralysis storyline has been problematic from the start. But no one here actually believes Brie will be successful in getting the implant from Felicity, right? So the problem here is that there may be "funny" moments that take place in the same episode as the horrifying thing which is not actually going to happen?

 

Characters are threatened or hurt every episode--some in ways very personal and scary--and yet there have almost always been moments of levity, often from Felicity herself, who was then criticized for being inappropriate.

 

As far as how Felicity feels about it, and whether having lighter moments in that episode is somehow disrespectful to the grave threat she's under, it's entirely possible that the show is going to play this as though Felicity never once believes it is going to happen, and that she's angry about it, and spends the episode scheming with Thea and her mom. Even if not, the show has balanced this kind of thing before, and given that I'm pretty sure the "humor" of this episode will barely register (if MG's other example of 407) is anything to go by, I'm not going to get up in arms about it in advance.

I'm not talking about the characters' reactions to the horrifying thing, I'm talking about the horrifying thing itself. Actually ripping out a spinal column is, IMO, significantly more horrifying than just killing someone.

 

And no, I don't think Brie or her henchmen are actually going to rip out Felicity's spinal column. I also don't actually think zombies are going to eat my brains. Doesn't mean the fiction isn't horrifying. I'm not up in arms or offended by it, either. I do, however, think it's weird that an episode centered on the idea of ripping an implant out of a main character's spine is supposed to be the funniest episode ever.

Edited March 18, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[ComicFan777]

In the Flash episode, I think Brie killed at least one scientist and tried to kill Barry twice (but a defibrillator in the suit saved him the first time and Felicity stopped her the second time).

 

In the Flash comics (assuming it was Brie controlling the robots), the robot dangled Felicity out of a building and Flash came to rescue her.

 

If the BTS pic of Donna is at the hospital, I think that Felicity might be hurt though.  It could be Oliver, but they showed him hurt in the lair and Oliver rarely goes to the hospital.

Edited March 18, 2016 by ComicFan777

[looptab]

Other funny moments from 407 were Felicity listing Oliver's terrible decisions, and 'Deadly Bingo'. Just to have a clearer picture of what we can expect :)

[Carrie Ann]

I'm not talking about the characters' reactions to the horrifying thing, I'm talking about the horrifying thing itself. Actually ripping out a spinal column is, IMO, significantly more horrifying than just killing someone.

 

And no, I don't think Brie or her henchmen are actually going to rip out Felicity's spinal column. I also don't actually think zombies are going to eat my brains. Doesn't mean the fiction isn't horrifying. I'm not up in arms or offended by it, either. I do, however, think it's weird that an episode centered on the idea of ripping an implant out of a main character's spine is supposed to be the funniest episode ever.

 

Okay, cool, your posts sounded like you were angry about some part of this, so I was just confused about what part was at issue here. If you're just talking about being freaked out by what Brie's plans are, then I get that.

[dtissagirl]

Not that I trust Arrow much to deliver in tone, but I tend to *adore* humorous takes on life threatening action-adventure. "We're all gonna die horribly and violently; so let's crack as many jokes as possible" is my fave kind of episode.

[ComicFan777]

And no, I don't think Brie or her henchmen are actually going to rip out Felicity's spinal column. I also don't actually think zombies are going to eat my brains. Doesn't mean the fiction isn't horrifying. I'm not up in arms or offended by it, either. I do, however, think it's weird that an episode centered on the idea of ripping an implant out of a main character's spine is supposed to be the funniest episode ever.

 

MG: "Bad things happen on this show — this is Arrow — but when bad things happen to our heroes, nowadays they respond in a much more positive way than they ever did in the past."

Brighter season, brighter outlook, so maybe the take away is laugh it off even if someone is trying to take your spine - it's funny, right?...because it is season 4...and because MG says it's funny...

 

[AyChihuahua]

Not that I trust Arrow much to deliver in tone, but I tend to *adore* humorous takes on life threatening action-adventure. "We're all gonna die horribly and violently; so let's crack as many jokes as possible" is my fave kind of episode.

My guess is that a lot of the humor will come from Curtis, which I'm cool with, bc I really like him, and I love Echo. The thing where he covered up Oliver's face with his hand to simulate the Green Arrow's hood and mask cracked me up. I'm also wondering if Guggie is thinking of some of the BTS stuff from the episode, as I believe SA and maybe somebody else said Echo had them in stitches the whole time.

[looptab]

Given that the villain is kind of a joke, I'm okay if the show takes an humorous approach rather than taking it too seriously and have the entire episode fail. I think it's best they do.

[way2interested]

I think that there are just too many contextual questions that I have for 417 before I can actually try to figure whether it's going to be funny or not. Like, why is Brie after the chip? Why does she think that holding a company hostage is going to do anything, since it's not like Felicity can just reach in and grab it? Are Felicity, Thea, and Donna actually held captive or are they just trapped in the building, since it seems weird to have a hostage that actually has the chip that you want? Why are Thea and Donna there to begin with? Why does Oliver need Curtis' help specifically?

 

 

Given that the villain is kind of a joke, I'm okay if the show takes an humorous approach rather than taking it too seriously and have the entire episode fail. I think it's best they do.

That's what I'm kind of thinking too. I'm partially thinking, besides Curtis, that some of the humor will be the fact that Felicity and Thea are trying to go Team Arrow on the situation without involving Donna the best that they can, while throwing in another nemesis joke or two from Felicity along the way. 

[dtissagirl]

My guess is that a lot of the humor will come from Curtis, which I'm cool with, bc I really like him, and I love Echo. The thing where he covered up Oliver's face with his hand to simulate the Green Arrow's hood and mask cracked me up. I'm also wondering if Guggie is thinking of some of the BTS stuff from the episode, as I believe SA and maybe somebody else said Echo had them in stitches the whole time.

 

It doesn't matter to me where the humor is gonna come from [if it ends up being funny]. I just legit don't mind if a horrifying set up for an episode ends up being portrayed with a humorous tone. I tend to enjoy it when callous humor is used in a potentially dark situation. I kinda not-so-secretly wish Arrow went that route way more often than it does.

[AyChihuahua]

It doesn't matter to me where the humor is gonna come from [if it ends up being funny]. I just legit don't mind if a horrifying set up for an episode ends up being portrayed with a humorous tone. I tend to enjoy it when callous humor is used in a potentially dark situation. I kinda not-so-secretly wish Arrow went that route way more often than it does.

Yeah, I'm not offended. I'm looking forward to the episode. Some of Supernatural's funniest episodes involved horrible deaths. Including Dean being squashed by a grand piano. This sounds like an episode that could either be played as horror or as farce, and they're going with farce. As long as the audience doesn't think about how horrifying it would be to watch a robot guy rip out Felicity's spine while she's still alive, we'll be entertained.

[dtissagirl]

I don't even need to skip thinking about the horrifying part. One of my very favorite things that happened this season was Oliver pointing at where Thea was stabbed at the loft, and then wondering if they should get a rug. I remembered the horror AND I thought his joke was hilarious.

Edited March 18, 2016 by dtissagirl

[wonderwall]

When it comes to Arrow a funny episode doesn't meant it's like an episode of tbbt. I'm just expecting a few humorous moments weaved into the episode *shrugs*

[Morrigan2575]

I don't even need to skip thinking about the horrifying part. One of my very favorite things that happened this season was Oliver pointing at where Thea was stabbed at the loft, and then wondering if they should get a rug. I remembered the horror AND I thought his joke was hilarious.

As a dedicated watcher of The Walking Dead, Supernatural and Ash vs Evil Dead, I agree. There's always room for a bit of humor in a dark/terrifying episode

Edited March 18, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[catrox14]

As a dedicated watcher of both The Walking Dead, Supernatural and Ash vs Evil Dead, I agree. There's always room for a bit of humor in a dark/terrifying episode

 

Throw in Angel for that dark humor and I am right there with you.  Those shows know how to do dark humor. I am less convinced Arrow writers will be able to get the dark humor just right like the shows you mention.

I don't even need to skip thinking about the horrifying part. One of my very favorite things that happened this season was Oliver pointing at where Thea was stabbed at the loft, and then wondering if they should get a rug. I remembered the horror AND I thought his joke was hilarious.

 

I wonder if that was a Stephen Amell thing, like him leaning back in the chair and looking towards the ceiling when Thea called asking if he was near the nightclub(which to this day is the funniest thing this show ever did IMO YMMV and all that ).

[statsgirl]

I'll see how the episode plays out but the minute Brie tells someone to rip the chip out of Felicity's spine, I think I'm gong to be out.

 

I don't know if I even addressed what you meant by her being important enough--can you please clarify? :-)

I think she's a very important character but as a secondary character to Oliver.  She's his light, his contrast when he gets stuck, his glimpse into a better world.

 

But while Felicity and Diggle have side stories, the main focus is always on Oliver and that's why I think if anyone is going to go dark enough to be an 'A' story (as opposed to Thea's bloodlust which was usually the 'B' plot, it's going to be Oliver.

 

The only character I can think of to have a major plot unrelated to Oliver is Laurel's addiction arc and I think that was mostly because they couldn't figure out how to tie her into Oliver's story.

 

I think Poppy said something to the effect of "to beat a monster, you must become a monster."

 

I wouldn't necessarily think that Felicity is succumbing to darkness or losing her light because she thinks it is ok that someone is killed.  She asked Oliver to kill Ra's before and it was never construed as she is becoming dark!Felicity because of it.  I get the impression that the writers like to paint the characters as being morally grey as a good thing like Lyla.

Maybe that's the compare and contrast -- that Poppy is willing to go dark while Felicity knows that sometimes you have to act dark but you shouldn't actually go dark.  Although given Poppy's slavery and the death of her brother, I'm not judging.

 

Or maybe I'm grasping at straws that the flashbacks are somehow relevant.

 

I can see this happening. Also, Curtis is probably a practicing couples' therapist as another hobby. Or maybe he wrote a book on forgiving your boyfriend who consistently has poor decision making skills. (I kid - I love Curtis!)

This would be hilarious, on top of his genius tech and Iron Man talents. We could make it a drinking game, one shot every time Curtis does something else perfect, like hiding the ring in a shell while scuba diving.

[wonderwall]

I think Arrow did a good job weaving in humor with the dark tone of the show in seasons 1 & 2 so I'm not worried. 

[Starfish35]

Yes, which is why I think they're going to air 420-423 straight to get 4 Sweeps weeks.  May Sweeps starts Thursday 4/28-Wednesday 5/25.

418 - 4/6

419 - 4/13

2 Week Break

420 - 5/4

421 - 5/11

422 - 5/18

4/23 - 5/25

 

That schedule makes the most sense to me.

I think they could theoretically put the two week break between 418 and 419. They wouldn't have to release the title and summary of 419 until after 418 aired if they did that. But yeah, it makes more sense for the break to be between 419 and 420.

We'll know next week I guess, unless they hold the summary back for some reason. Do they ever do that? Not release a title/summary because of spoilers?

[Velocity23]

I think there is a break after 4x18. Flash is also off that week.

[catrox14]

I think Arrow did a good job weaving in humor with the dark tone of the show in seasons 1 & 2 so I'm not worried. 

 

Agreed in 1 & 2 they did that ..but now..I'm unsure

[Morrigan2575]

I think they could theoretically put the two week break between 418 and 419. They wouldn't have to release the title and summary of 419 until after 418 aired if they did that. But yeah, it makes more sense for the break to be between 419 and 420.

We'll know next week I guess, unless they hold the summary back for some reason. Do they ever do that? Not release a title/summary because of spoilers?

They could put the 2 week break after 418 but I would prefer to have 418 and 419 aired together and then take a break.  

[wonderwall]

Agreed in 1 & 2 they did that ..but now..I'm unsure

 

I think Ben/Brian are the more stronger writers of the team... So I'm not going to panic or judge before I see the episode tbh

[foreverevolving]

Throw in Angel for that dark humor and I am right there with you.  Those shows know how to do dark humor. I am less convinced Arrow writers will be able to get the dark humor just right like the shows you mention.

 

I wonder if that was a Stephen Amell thing, like him leaning back in the chair and looking towards the ceiling when Thea called asking if he was near the nightclub(which to this day is the funniest thing this show ever did IMO YMMV and all that ).

which episode was that scene in?

[catrox14]

which episode was that scene in?

 

Oh gosh, I can't remember which specific episode.

 

But Oliver had just gotten back to the lair still in his arrow costume IIRC, and Thea called asking something like "How close are you to the club?"

 

Oliver leans back in the chair, looks straight up at the ceiling and says' "Pretty close"...or something like that. I'll see if I can find the clip. That was ad-lib by Stephen