Spoiler Discussion Thread

[dtissagirl]

In a past interview, Guggenheim had mentioned that next season will be much darker than this one and that Oliver will need all the help he can get next season. 

Can you source this interview, please?

[ComicFan777]

There were a few mentions in the summer.  One of the Guggenheim interview mentions can be found here:

http://moviepilot.com/posts/3676490

It mentions darker season next year and implied Oliver needing more help because of the upcoming big bad and them wanting to bring in Slade to help the team.  Though through Guggenheim twitter, Slade is no longer an option because of another DC project.  At first it had occurred to me that Diggle might be the one in the grave if they were thinking of bringing Slade back into the fold as a reformed "good" guy/ex best friend.  With Slade out of the question now, it gives me hope that Diggle will be sticking around.

 

For the Wendy Mericle one, there was an article that posed the question of whether the team will survive the problems that come into the season but I can't find that one right now.  Another that listed the problems the team will face - internal secrets, a major betrayal, and an upcoming death -

http://www.emmys.com/news/online-originals/target-wendy-mericle-talks-arrow-season-four

 

 

 

 

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, we debunked that Moviepilot interview back in December. It's a complete fabrication.

[Ann Mack]

Is Oliver this dark in the comics? I don't understand after 4 seasons of darkness why these writers, EPs, show-runners whatever think it is a wise decision to go even darker (if possible) into the 5th season. There are little to no light moments within Arrow that are not contributed by Felicity. They made Oliver a little less broody this season, and had him be a little more open with his team mates but then they tore it back down primarily for a stupid story line that didn't have to go the way they wrote it or really didn't need to exist at all.

 

I can understand why reviewers are excited more about the off-springs of Arrow than Arrow itself and it's because those shows give their characters, depth, growth, and moments of levity from all the doom and gloom. But not Arrow it just loves getting down in there and wallowing in the very lowest and gloomiest depths of darkness. They really need to be looking to actually carry the show into some form of lightness in Season 5, add more fun moments, and let Oliver grow up FFS the man is in his early 30s. Maybe Greg needs to step in and shuffle some of his show-runners around?

[kismet]

I was thinking about the BMD secret. And I believe FS is going to be ok with OQ keeping the knowledge of William from her. She was fine with the kid in the first timeline, I can see it being the same this time around. However, she is going to be pissed about OQ keeping the secret that MM knows about William. I honestly believe that FS would not be upset with OQ for doing whatever it takes to have a relationship with his son. However, MM knowing about the child puts the child in danger. So had he told his team, 'MM found out about this major thing I've been withholding', they could find a way to protect that kid. As it stands now though, OQ withholding the info from FS & TA puts the child at harm, threatens all his relationships, whereas before the withholding at least in theory was an attempt to protect everyone and honor promises.

 

This inability of OQ to recognize a dangerous path with MM would be a rehash of s3 working with MM that wrecked the trust relationships with his team. It's demonstrative that he withholds information at critical times that puts his loved ones at higher risk of injury. It's not the withholding, its the time-sensitive or critical nature of the info being held. His blockheaded desire to protect them actually puts them at more risk of harm. To me, that is going to be the part of the BMD reveal that is going to break O/F & O/TA for a little bit.

 

It also harkens back to the infamous cuddle on the couch, where FS begged to be told what was going on because she could help him. Clearly, at the time beyond being 100% truthful with your fiancee, there was no need to tell her. I personally did not like it, but I can rationalize why he did it. However, minute OQ found out that MM knew the dynamics completely changed. Now is the time to tell his team, because the information is actionable & puts people he loves in danger. And his team could help him protect what he loves. Him withholding the existence of William is no longer a lie of omission - its boarding on selfishness & negligent behavior.

 

It also harkens back to Dig's cold comments that OQ does not know how to love in the premiere. By withholding the information about MM knowing about William, it puts his compartmentalization & self-survival over his love. It's really sad, because I can see how a broken OQ would make that decision in s1 or s2, but after s4a it seemed like he would be better at recognizing when the situation has hit critical mass. And the minute MM revealed the secret, is the minute OQ should have taken it to someone he trusts, primarily FS.

 

If they take this route, the problem is it becomes harder for FS & TA to accept that OQ won't do something stupid again in the future. Because this is the 2nd year in a row he pulled something similar on his loved ones. I think its going to be MM of it all that is going to make this problematic for the relationships to move fwd. Which is the stupid of it all because OQ at this point should know to bring the MM-part of the situation to FS. I also hope its the last time the writers go to this well of making OQ blatantly stupid for plot, because as an audience member fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me three times.and we're done. It's getting old and reaching lower depths of pathetic that they can't be more creative and still bring drama.

Edited February 13, 2016 by kismet

[Primal Slayer]

Is Oliver this dark in the comics? I don't understand after 4 seasons of darkness why these writers, EPs, show-runners whatever think it is a wise decision to go even darker (if possible) into the 5th season. There are little to no light moments within Arrow that are not contributed by Felicity. They made Oliver a little less broody this season, and had him be a little more open with his team mates but then they tore it back down primarily for a stupid story line that didn't have to go the way they wrote it or really didn't need to exist at all.

The charecter has certainly went through dark times in the comics but he was much happier then Arrows rendition. Oliver going dark right before the new52 started was what lead her to leave him again.

I just noticed that Malcolm appears to have joined DDs team completely with him sitting with DDs wife in their lair.

[Ann Mack]

The charecter has certainly went through dark times in the comics but he was much happier then Arrows rendition. Oliver going dark right before the new52 started was what lead her to leave him again.

I just noticed that Malcolm appears to have joined DDs team completely with him sitting with DDs wife in their lair.

Thanks.

[looptab]

 

BAM was talking about 4.14 regarding Kleenex.  I do have to wonder since the romance is unimportant if they don't marry them off in 4.14 and break 'em up in 4.15.  A small ceremony could explain the Hoffman's presence.  The long scene is non-action and Negret was originally supposed to direct. We don't actually know that no one from the Flash is present.   

My scenario is, they're about to get married but they get news of the kidnapping, or - brand new idea - Oliver stops the wedding because the guilt is crushing him. LOL

 

 

I was thinking about the BMD secret. And I believe FS is going to be ok with OQ keeping the knowledge of William from her. She was fine with the kid in the first timeline, I can see it being the same this time around. 

These are two different things. She was - and I'm sure will be - fine with him having a kid. The lying or omitting or whatever we want to call it was, and will be the problem.

 

It mentions darker season next year and implied Oliver needing more help because of the upcoming big bad and them wanting to bring in Slade to help the team.  

For a moment I wondered how they would dream a scenario in which Oliver works with the man who killed his mother, but then I remembered malcolm, and anything could happen.

Edited February 13, 2016 by looptab

[bijoux]

Tom Amandes is coming back! Why the hell hasn't this been promoted?

 

[calliope1975]

So, it's Digg who's going to be propping the BMD to Oliver? Lame. It better be along the lines of, I understand you wanted to see your son, but you are an idiot, and I will fully support Felicity when she dumps your ass.

 

It will probably be, you were right in lying and keeping this secret all along, Oliver. Never tell Felicity. 

[looptab]

 

It will probably be, you were right in lying and keeping this secret all along, Oliver. Never tell Felicity. 

Like he told him he shouldn't tell Thea about being the Arrow. His advice will be, well, you've lied until now, just keep lying.

[dtissagirl]

Is Oliver this dark in the comics? I don't understand after 4 seasons of darkness why these writers, EPs, show-runners whatever think it is a wise decision to go even darker (if possible) into the 5th season.

The Moviepilot article that said S5 will be darker is fakety fakey fake.

[Ann Mack]

The Moviepilot article that said S5 will be darker is fakety fakey fake.

Okay.

[kismet]

These are two different things. She was - and I'm sure will be - fine with him having a kid. The lying or omitting or whatever we want to call it was, and will be the problem.

But the way the show set-up the kid, he could only have a relationship with his son if he kept his existence secret. The show has declared that it is a valid & logical choice for him to keep it from FS because there was no other way for him to be with his son. So in order for FS to be ok with the kid, she is going to have to be ok with the methods/means in which the BM established the ultimatum. We the audience recognize the ultimatum was bs, but the show has declared it valid.

 

Which is why I think OQ withholding BM/W from FS is not going to be what causes the break/space... historically she has been fine with him keeping stuff from her. However, her breaking point has always been MM. So IMO, it's going to be that he kept from her that MM knew about his son.

 

But we'll just have to wait and see, where the show decides to take this plot. It's so devoid of creativity at this point, it's not worth discussing.

[lemotomato]

Tom Amandes is coming back! Why the hell hasn't this been promoted?

 

The person tweeting this info said that it all comes from private conversations between other fans and SA/DR, and she's just repeating what they're telling her. It's second-hand info, not stuff from the actors at the panels, so take it all with a grain of salt.

Edited February 13, 2016 by lemotomato

[TwistedandBored]

Tom Amandes is coming back this season!? You couldn't tell that from last week's episode. The episode made it seem like we were done with Calculator for now. 

[looptab]

But the way the show set-up the kid, he could only have a relationship with his son if he kept his existence secret. The show has declared that it is a valid & logical choice for him to keep it from FS because there was no other way for him to be with his son. So in order for FS to be ok with the kid, she is going to have to be ok with the methods/means in which the BM established the ultimatum. We the audience recognize the ultimatum was bs, but the show has declared it valid.

 

 

I'm sorry, I don't follow you. But you are right, it's been discussed ad nauseam, and you clearly have your headcanon, and I don't think we'll change each others' idea, so let's just move on.

Edited February 13, 2016 by looptab

[bijoux]

The person tweeting this info said that it all comes from private conversations between other fans and SA/DR, and she's just repeating what they're telling her. It's second-hand info, not stuff from the actors at the panels, so take it all with a grain of salt.

Well, sure, people could be makin this stuff up, but it's not like spoilers haven't cropped up in these circumstances before.

[kismet]

I'm sorry, I don't follow you. But you are right, it's been discussed ad nauseam, and you clearly have your headcanon, and I don't think we'll change each others' odea, so let's just move on.

Basically to be ok with the kid, she is going to have to be ok with the ultimatum. Not agreeing to the ultimatum, makes it so there would never be a kid in OQs life. However, I agree let's move on :)

[Guest]

So...Diggle is the person that supports Oliver with the lie then? 

[jay741982]

In a past interview, Guggenheim had mentioned that next season will be much darker than this one and that Oliver will need all the help he can get next season.  Wendy Mericle has also mentioned will the team survive everything that happens to it this season.  These remarks give me the feeling that the team will be torn apart to a degree due to betrayal and everything else that happens this season with HIVE.  Ultimately, they would win against HIVE at the end of the season, but the team might not be in the best shape at the end of the season.  Oliver and Felicity may be at odds with each other to some degree.  Diggle may be seriously injured, maybe needing cybernetics help - which would tie in to some extent the comic destiny of his codename.  Laurel may leave for the summer to train with Nyssa and start the Red League to come back better trained or she might be the one in the grave.  They might even bring in aliens next season since they are incorporating Supergirl into the universe - possibly hinting at Dark Seid as a big bad next season because of the motherbox Damien Darkh has and the new gods reference about Damien Darkh.

Yeah ending The season really badly with the team in shambles would really excite me to come back next season " SMH

[lemotomato]

Well, sure, people could be makin this stuff up, but it's not like spoilers haven't cropped up in these circumstances before.

That's true. It's just that the info about Tom Amandes being back already kind of contradicts what WM said in this interview after 411:

TVLINE | For how long will Tom Amendes be around?

We love him. He’s one of those rare actors who can be both menacing and really warm and kind and fatherly, so we would love to keep him around as long as possible. It’s just a question of us having a lot of other fish to fry this season. But our goal would be to have him play a part in Felicity’s life going forward.

I don't want to see people get their hopes up over second/third hand fan accounts.

Edited February 13, 2016 by lemotomato

[jay741982]

So...Diggle is the person that supports Oliver with the lie then?

I'm gonna be pissed if true. Diggle has a wife who he doesn't lie too and he was pissed at Oliver for months but it's okay to lie to Felicity who he respects and loves like a sister. Fuck off Dig

[apinknightmare]

That's true. It's just that the info about Tom Amandes being back already kind of contradicts what WM said in this interview after 411:

I don't want to see people get their hopes up over second/third hand fan accounts.

 

To be fair though, there isn't anything in what SA said that indicates he's back already - he could be talking about storylines he knows are going to pop up in the future.

[Ann Mack]

This Baby Mama Drama is causing character assassination left and right to try and justify it. Ugh the rage toward Marc is real!

 

[apinknightmare]

This Baby Mama Drama is causing character assassination left and right to try and justify it. Ugh the rage toward Marc is real!

 

 

Why don't we just wait and see how it goes? I wouldn't put it past these writers to have Digg tell Oliver to never tell Felicity about the kid or whatever, but maybe he understands Oliver going along with whatever that terrible woman wanted in order to see his kid? Maybe they'll go for the absolute stupidest reasoning ever, but maybe they won't. No point in getting upset about it before you know what actually happens.

[Primal Slayer]

Let's at least get some confirmation first that Diggle is supporting Olivers decision.

[Ann Mack]

Why don't we just wait and see how it goes? I wouldn't put it past these writers to have Digg tell Oliver to never tell Felicity about the kid or whatever, but maybe he understands Oliver going along with whatever that terrible woman wanted in order to see his kid? Maybe they'll go for the absolute stupidest reasoning ever, but maybe they won't. No point in getting upset about it before you know what actually happens.

Oh it's not just that, the season started out really good then it started to digress with episode 4x08. Its far more than just disliking Marc. I'm not denying the BMD is a good part of what has me upset but also the continuous pattern of decline each season of Arrow on the back half of the show for 3/4 seasons (well I'll give season 2 a bye the 2nd half with Slade was really good). Also the regression of Oliver just pisses me off. I'll get past whatever nonsense they drop to clean this mess up I just wish Marc would have avoided creating this mess to begin with, that's all.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Ann Mack

[calliope1975]

No point in getting upset about it before you know what actually happens.

 

But if I can't get irrationally outraged over possible spoilers, why am I even here? :p

 

I was also thinking that the Smoak Family Drama might be continued next year. Is there time to fit more in this year? I suppose Oliver could visit Papa Smoak in jail, probably for advice because he's not very bright sometimes. 

[bijoux]

Is there time to fit more in this year?

 

I'm really not sure that even applies with Arrow anymore. I feel like any time I thought, no, that makes no sense, they don't have time to do it, they went and did it anyway.

[BkWurm1]

DD is tied to HIVE but we really haven't seen much of them.

 

I would prefer that they finish Malcolm off this season and set HIVE up as the S5 Big Bad. Bring in Andy as recurring. Bring back Papa Smoak as a reluctant connection to the criminal world. I would love if it turned out that HIVE hired Papa Smoak to attack the city mainframe due to reasons. 

I hadn't really thought about how little we've dealt with HIVE but the fact that it hasn't been that much makes me pause and wonder if the "him" they need to kill will be DD.  Otherwise, when are they ever going to have time to deal with HIVE this season?  It would be one thing if HIVE hung over until next season but from interviews it sounded like they have firm plans to be done and ready to move on by the end of the season. 

 

I suppose the next handful of episodes could be all about HIVE and DD and then LL will stick him in jail creating a pause so MM can kill someone and then I guess they'll spend a couple episodes on MM only to probably run out of time and have to go after HIVE as the more urgent threat?  I guess that works. It's still likely means we are going to look back and shake our heads at how badly rushed the back half of the season once again became. 

 

Is anyone even bothered about #Poppy and Oliver in flashbacks though? It's in the past, it doesn't even matter. And most people barely pay any attention to them anyway haha. 

 

 

I discovered it does bother me, but not because of Olicity but because Poppy and Oliver in a sexual situation feels icky.  On her side, he's her brother's killer and her only hope of survival so it feels like both punishment and payment.  Same on Oliver's side.  There's been no sign of any attraction and given that he did kill her brother and he now feels obligated to her, it also feels like he'd be feeling obligated.  It's just messed up. 

 

 

I have to admit that for the first time I am ready to quit the show. If they kill Diggle and Olicity, I don't know what there will be left to still pull me back in. Because all their fantastic guest stars and comic book cameos aren't really why I watch. And if next season deals with them having to once again become a team then I just don't know whether I still have the patience to watch the same thing again. 

I know I wouldn't quit the show right away but there's a good chance I'd stop watching and let the episodes pile up on the DVR until I hear that the dark time is over.  I find it's a lot easier to watch episodes packed with "bad news" if I can immediately get to the next episode (and since it sounds like it will be several episodes of "bad news" I would need to have a binge session to get to the beacon of hope).  But watching a show in binges is my last desperate attempt not to quit it.  And it would ruin my fun on the forum.  :(

 

So, it's Digg who's going to be propping the BMD to Oliver? Lame. It better be along the lines of, I understand you wanted to see your son, but you are an idiot, and I will fully support Felicity when she dumps your ass.

 

It will probably be, you were right in lying and keeping this secret all along, Oliver. Never tell Felicity. 

Sympathetic doesn't have to mean he thinks Oliver is right.  I'm still hopeful that everyone finds out at the same time.  It's ok for Diggle to be sympathetic even as Oliver is blowing up his life. 

[kes0704]

I've been trying to figure out how the "break up" between O/F will fit into the narrative of the show as it stands now.

They've already had Oliver state that Felicity is the only one of them with paid employment. She is funding his mayoral campaign/vigilante mission and owns his campaign office, and by extension, the lair underneath it.

So assuming O/F break up and she gives back the ring, does she still continue to work* with him in the lair and pay for everything? If she does, then clearly she is a better woman than I would be in similar circumstances :).

Maybe there is a grander plan at work here, so it really is just an exercise in "wait and see" before I rush to judgement.

* I was ongoing to ask how this could all work and still be a believable emotional response, but I don't think "believable" reactions to anything really factor into story decisions.

[Belinea]

They've already had Oliver state that Felicity is the only one of them with paid employment. She is funding his mayoral campaign/vigilante mission and owns his campaign office, and by extension, the lair underneath it.

As it probably doesn't help their plot, they will conveniently forget about it until everybody and their mother starts to ask them how anybody pays for stuff. Same goes for Oliver and him being 'broke'. It was never fully explained until SA explained his own headcanon.

[lemotomato]

I've been trying to figure out how the "break up" between O/F will fit into the narrative of the show as it stands now.

They've already had Oliver state that Felicity is the only one of them with paid employment. She is funding his mayoral campaign/vigilante mission and owns his campaign office, and by extension, the lair underneath it.

So assuming O/F break up and she gives back the ring, does she still continue to work* with him in the lair and pay for everything? If she does, then clearly she is a better woman than I would be in similar circumstances :).

Maybe there is a grander plan at work here, so it really is just an exercise in "wait and see" before I rush to judgement.

* I was ongoing to ask how this could all work and still be a believable emotional response, but I don't think "believable" reactions to anything really factor into story decisions.

Oliver has been holding fundraisers (the event in 407, for example), so he might not need Felicity to continue to paying for the campaign, even though she gave him money for the initial launch. As for Team Arrow operations, it's just as much her team and mission as it is his, so I don't see her pulling her financial support for it just because she and Oliver broke up. 

Edited February 13, 2016 by lemotomato

[thegirlsleuth]

It crossed my mind if Felicity's dad was going to end up in Iron Heights at the same time as Damien Darhk that they might do something with that plot wise--I think there could be some cool possibilities--but I thought I saw that Tom A confirmed he was not going to be back this season. I did see that Brie Larsen would be back, and, and in comics she has ties to HIVE. Wonder if she'll break out Damien.

[Morrigan2575]

It crossed my mind if Felicity's dad was going to end up in Iron Heights at the same time as Damien Darhk that they might do something with that plot wise--I think there could be some cool possibilities--but I thought I saw that Tom A confirmed he was not going to be back this season. I did see that Brie Larsen would be back, and, and in comics she has ties to HIVE. Wonder if she'll break out Damien.

When did he confirm that? I don't think he did any press for Arrow. I know WM said they plan to bring him back for S5.

[apinknightmare]

They've already had Oliver state that Felicity is the only one of them with paid employment. She is funding his mayoral campaign/vigilante mission and owns his campaign office, and by extension, the lair underneath it.

So assuming O/F break up and she gives back the ring, does she still continue to work* with him in the lair and pay for everything? If she does, then clearly she is a better woman than I would be in similar circumstances :).

 

I don't think she'd continue paying for his living expenses or anything, but I don't see why she'd stop funding their mission or his mayoral campaign (if she's still doing that). The mission is still hers, and the only other person running for mayor is the wife of the guy who wants to obliterate the city from the map. Seems like Oliver being in charge, even if she is still angry with him, is the better alternative for her and the people whose lives they spend their nights protecting.

[spartan]

obviously william live with oliver soon, OLICITY DRAMA AND LAUREL IN THE GRAVE???EUHHHHHHHHHH, WHAT?

[kismet]

I discovered it does bother me, but not because of Olicity but because Poppy and Oliver in a sexual situation feels icky.  On her side, he's her brother's killer and her only hope of survival so it feels like both punishment and payment.  Same on Oliver's side.  There's been no sign of any attraction and given that he did kill her brother and he now feels obligated to her, it also feels like he'd be feeling obligated.  It's just messed up.

I've decided it bothers me too. It has nothing to do with O/F and everything to do with the fact that nothing about the relationship makes no sense nor does it ring sexual to me. All the other random lounges & hook-ups (OQ/Shado; OQ/SL; OQ/IR; FS/RP) in story have made logical or character sense. OQ/Shado & OQ/SL were some variant of comfort or love the one you're with. OQ/IR was a loneliness, rage sex or even a version of getting over someone by getting under someone. FS/RP in show was the natural progression of their relationship, plus a trying to move on with your life. I may have had various degrees of feelings towards the hookups, but I could understand why it happened.

 

I cannot fathom why Poppy would want to sleep with Oliver and vice versa. OQ killed her brother and people can change, but why would she want to change that quickly? Most people don't downshift that quickly to quote one of my fav movies. And even for rage/hate sex there hasn't been an ounce of chemistry or fire between them, so that excuse won't even work for them. As for OQ, he was celibate for a whole year in HK. I don't see why all of the sudden he would feel the need to scratch the itch. If they really want to do that, can't we just bring back hallucination Shado & OQ can have an amazing sex dream?

 

Although my fear is that the sex scene between OQ/Poppy is going to be somehow connected to the magic of the island. Either its going to be a hallucination induced event thats' going to cross some lines or somehow their lovemaking is going to be a necessary sacrifice to save the world.

[thegirlsleuth]

When did he confirm that? I don't think he did any press for Arrow. I know WM said they plan to bring him back for S5.

Twitter, if I'm not mistaken. I believe someone asked him if he'd be back and any talk I've seen has only been regarding next season.

Edited February 13, 2016 by thegirlsleuth

[kismet]

I think DD is going to be finished after this season ala Slade s2. But I think HIVE will live on as a organizational foe to TA. Similar to how ARGUS, LOA & TRIAD have functioned in previous seasons to be the "Big Organizational Bad". ARGUS was more grey frenemy, esp with Lila & OQ/Waller's previous dealings, but I do not believe they can go that route with HIVE. I just hope they don't do to HIVE what they did to the LOA.

[Morrigan2575]

Twitter, if I'm not mistaken. I believe someone asked him if he'd be back and any talk I've seen has only been regarding next season.

Ok so you're talking about S4. Yeah, no one has ever said he'd be back back this season, everything is talking about next season

[apinknightmare]

Either its going to be a hallucination induced event thats' going to cross some lines or somehow their lovemaking is going to be a necessary sacrifice to save the world.

 

Honestly, that's the only premise under which I'll believe those two would sleep together. In a fuck-or-die sitch. 

[dtissagirl]

Honestly, that's the only premise under which I'll believe those two would sleep together. In a fuck-or-die sitch.

Oooh, sex pollen.

[bijoux]

According to tweets from the con, the death will happen at the end of the season. While it doesn't necessarily mean the finale, 418 seems too early.

Edited February 13, 2016 by bijoux

[Guest]

What do you guys mean #Poppy and Oliver wouldn't sleep together unless they're gonna die?! He's just been bitten by a shark and probably has an infection and she's not had a wash or a change of clothes in weeks, plus she's just learned that he killed her brother. This is clearly the setting for romance and sexy times. I don't know what you're all talking about. 

[dtissagirl]

According to tweets from the con, the death will happen at the end of the season. While it doesn't necessarily mean the finale, 418 seems too early.

I've seen tweets saying "death will happen at the end of the season", and tweets saying "death will happen BEFORE the end of the season". We need video.

[lemotomato]

There doesn't seem to be any new spoilers during SA's panel. Just that Oliver and Felicity will handle the breakup like adults (I don't like the sound of that because that's exactly how SA described Oliver and Felicity's interactions last season in 3A) and that he and EBR haven't been working together much lately. Oh, and the end of 415 is 3.5 minutes of Oliver monologue

[apinknightmare]

Oh man, what on earth could Oliver have to talk about for 3.5 whole minutes.

[Guest]

The death happening at the end of the season doesn't add up with everything else that's been said. I thought there was supposed to be enough time to deal with the fallout of the death and everything. 

 

Also it's hardly surprising SA and EBR haven't been working together much considering O/F are broken up but it's still a shame to lose that dynamic because of it. I still like O/F together even just as friends. Can't say I'm looking forward to any of this.