Spoiler Discussion Thread

[dtissagirl]

Hmmm. If there's a lie of omission between Donna and Felicity, that might actually give us insight into what Felicity thinks of lies of omission. Because we don't know, do we? I mean, for all that's been said about ~what kind of lie~ Oliver told, how we in the audience feel about ~levels of lying is kind of irrelevant. What matters is how Felicity reacts to them.

 

We know how Felicity would react if Oliver told her a blatant lie -- she exploded on him in the erased timeline, told him he doesn't trust her, and stormed off super angry. What does a lie of omission do to her?

[way2interested]

We know how Felicity would react if Oliver told her a blatant lie -- she exploded on him in the erased timeline, told him he doesn't trust her, and stormed off super angry. What does a lie of omission do to her?

 

Her reaction to it could be what contributes to Oliver's sudden guilt in 414, whether she ends up mad/sad/disappointed at Donna or not. 

[Morrigan2575]

Her reaction to it could be what contributes to Oliver's sudden guilt in 414, whether she ends up mad/sad/disappointed at Donna or not. 

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well.  

[apinknightmare]

Her reaction to it could be what contributes to Oliver's sudden guilt in 414, whether she ends up mad/sad/disappointed at Donna or not. 

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. ETA: Or me three, since @morrigan2572 and I posted at the same time!

Edited February 5, 2016 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

Just to be clear, SA didn't say OQ's lie was one of omission. He said he argued for a lie of omission but did not get his way. Guggie wanted a flat-out lie, SA wanted a lie of omission, and they met in the middle. When OQ said it was over, knowing that he planned to see the kid again, that is not a lie of omission.

 

SA likely argued for something like a subject change without answering Felicity at all, which WOULD have been a lie of omission. He said at the con that he did not get that.

[apinknightmare]

Her reaction to whatever Donna lied about or whatever story she told about Felicity's could be an indicator of how she'd react to Oliver's secret kid. It's dishonesty just the same, and Felicity could express her disappointment about it in a way that could make Oliver start to piece together how she'd react when she finds out about the kid. 

[kismet]

Personal experience~ my father lied by omission all the time. Personally trained my siblings & I to do it. I excelled at it. The others had variable results. I have no problems with lies of omission, especially if they are for the greater good. My mother took a harder stance on lies. A lie is a lie, unless its a white lie to protect others. Again the greater good played a part. My parents have been married for about 47 yrs, with a few rough patches in there. But in the end the shared concept of the greater good & their love for each other kept them working on their marriage.

 

It will be interesting to see what FS's perspective is on lying. She seemed okay in past seasons with for the greater good & not my secret to tell as things that helped assuage her guilt. The last time she was brutally honest and told the truth without reservation was the MM father reveal. And I wonder now, if she regrets telling OQ about MM, because without revealing that to OQ - perhaps MQ would not have died, TQ would not have lost the Queen fortune & perhaps biggest of all TQ may never have run off with MM. Because once she told OQ it set irrevocable wheels in motion. Yes, OQ has free will to tell TQ or not - but still if FS had never told OQ, he never would have had to make that choice to lie or not lie to his sister. Once the paternity secret was revealed all the backlash would have fallen rightly on MQ, and perhaps TQ could have found solace in OQ, as opposed to turning him away as part of the conspiracy. That was a pricey secret to reveal. FS might not have lost OQ, but she forever changed his world.

 

Since that time she has seemed more okay with the morally grey. Numerous crimes, felonies and legal infractions made under the guise of vigilantism for the greater good. She was okay with killing Ras. She was okay with threatening MM and bankrupting people who did bad things. Lies to QL.The whole SL is not dead ruse. She didn't tell RP about OQ & vice versa. She kept secrets from OQ about TeamArrowless during their relationship.

 

I feel like a blatant lie is going to hurt FS deep. Like if he was running off to CC in the last month to see BM/W. But a lie of omission considering all the things she accepts about OQ as both the GA & OQ and ultimately loves him for despite knowing his flaws, I feel like she might be okay with - especially if the lie (of omission or somewhere in the middle) is for the greater good, which is what I think the show & OQ will spin the BM ultimatum as.

 

TBH though, the only person she ever really called out for lying was MQ. Everybody else she has forgiven when lies of omission or necessity have been revealed. She jumped at the chance to forgive RP for his lying to her. I actually think they spun that sickening forgiveness convo into a see how much we've learned to trust each other. She gave BA a pass for lying about his mother & his reason for being in SC. She helped LL lie to her father.

 

It will be interesting to see if lies play into her parent's dynamics and her father's abandonment. I will also say that classic Arrow also places both emotional wounds of BMD & Smoak secret time reveal very close together for maximization of plot. So even if FS is inclined to feel or believe one way, the double whammy of both sucker punches so close together may change her perspective until the optimal ratings or sweep episode when she becomes more in line with her character.

 

I'd actually like to see Smoak come back to be there for a little inner FS perspective when there is the big Smoak family reveal of secrets, lies & truths.

Edited February 5, 2016 by kismet

[dtissagirl]

Her reaction to whatever Donna lied about or whatever story she told about Felicity's could be an indicator of how she'd react to Oliver's secret kid. It's dishonesty just the same, and Felicity could express her disappointment about it in a way that could make Oliver start to piece together how she'd react when she finds out about the kid. 

 

I'm really hoping for super duper on the nose dialogue.

 

"Oliver, my mother lied about my father. I know our side job superheroing makes us liars all the time, but it's different. This is personal. This isn't lying to protect innocent people. This is lying to ME about things that affect ME and MY LIFE."

Edited February 5, 2016 by dtissagirl

[AyChihuahua]

I'm really hoping for super duper on the nose dialogue.

 

"Oliver, my mother lied about my father. I know our side job superheroing makes us liars all the time, but it's different. This is personal. This isn't lying to protect innocent people. This is lying to ME about things that affect ME and MY LIFE."

I feel like he has to know that this is going to end badly. When it first happened, he was panicky and desperate and yadda yadda, but it's been a couple months. So he's had time for the old arthritic gerbil in his head to get the wheel running. Does he, at this point, think she'll never know? I mean the kid's presumably going to be around for Oliver's entire life. Does he think she'll get over it without serious fallout?

 

You know what, maybe I just answered my own question. Maybe he's so used to lies, and so far to lies mostly working out for him (yes he's had consequences, but all the loved ones he's lied to have forgiven him, generally fairly quickly), that he figures she'll be mad for awhile and then they'll be okay. Because there's no way I buy, that he's NOW planning never to have a real role in the kid's life. At first I could buy a lot of it because of the panic, but two months is enough time to start thinking a little more clearly and a little bit more long-term. Even for Oliver. So yeah, I bet he thinks she'll basically be okay with it, and so hearing how much her mother's (presumed) lies affect her will probably be a real wake-up call.

Edited February 5, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[bijoux]

I haven't really thought about it, but isn't EBR's rhetoric on the issue of a suit for Felicity different in this short interview? Up until now she seemed more of the Felicity doesn't need a suit, she fights with her computers train of thought. She seems more open to it now and it sort of makes me fear that a suit is in the works.

 

I hope it's just a case of her getting tired of answering the same question over and over.

[kismet]

I think a suit is always going to be on the shortlist of potential storylines for FS. They basically put her in a wheelchair to stall that inevitability.

 

Perhaps they will hold out, but I can't see how in a cast of all masks, with the exception of QL (whose not a mask, but wears a uniform & may not make it thru to s5), they would not seriously consider putting her in a mask/suit. It's superhero comicbook show, that has completely embraced its comicbook roots midway through s3 and only strengthened them this season. Superpower, magic, mysticism, flying/shrinking suits. If it was Arrow of s1/2 that was based in reality, I would say no - they probably want a balance. But everyone has a mask/suit or is getting a mask/suit. I can't see how FS is going to buck the trend.

Edited February 5, 2016 by kismet

[bijoux]

kismet, now you're pushing me into turning out of the show. :) Really, I'm not sure that's a show I would watch.

[wonderwall]

I personally don't think that Felicity will ever get a suit, and if she does, what's the point? She's 'Overwatch'. Going out into the field to fight isn't a function of her role in the team. And even when (@angel12d I say when and not if :p) she gets out of that wheelchair, I suspect the most training she'll do is probably self defense with Diggle again. 

 

And okay, let's say Felicity DOES get a suit, it's not something she'd wear every episode. It'll probably be a suit for whenever she goes out into the field which is a pretty rare occassion. 

 

EBR might have changed her tune a bit in this interview, but I think it's because she's just tired of the question. Remember, she's been answering this ad nauseum for a long time now. Just look at what EBR said at Comic Con last year... She thinks Felicity is a hero without a suit and she loves it because more people can relate to that. 

 

Honestly, putting Felicity in a suit is probably the last thing the writers are thinking of right now. 

[dtissagirl]

I vote that Sailor Moon costume EBR wore for Halloween. THAT WAS AN AWESOME SUIT.

[kismet]

kismet, now you're pushing me into turning out of the show. :) Really, I'm not sure that's a show I would watch.

I'm really trying not to :) But I learned here that sometimes I need to accept the hard truths of what the show is giving me, even if I really really don't want to :)

 

Trust me, I want nothing more to go back to s2 reality based stories and characters. Gritty realism and all. Before adorable boys got hit with lightning and billionaire geniuses learned to shrink themselves to atomic size. When people stayed relatively dead and you needed more than some buckles and boxing class to get a suit. But our next guest star is blessed with the ability to mimic powers of most wild animals. And one of our last major guest stars went to the other worlds to return SL's lost soul. Things are a changing on Arrow, whether we like it or not.

 

Perhaps if they must indulge their 10yr old selves, they will make her mask/suit something that utilizes her brain power. Maybe it will be more uniform like Nyssa and less suit like Buckles.

 

Or they will keep FS unique and special all on her own without a mask. :)

[bijoux]

I personally don't think that Felicity will ever get a suit, and if she does, what's the point? She's 'Overwatch'. Going out into the field to fight isn't a function of her role in the team. And even when (@angel12d I say when and not if :p) she gets out of that wheelchair, I suspect the most training she'll do is probably self defense with Diggle again. 

 

And okay, let's say Felicity DOES get a suit, it's not something she'd wear every episode. It'll probably be a suit for whenever she goes out into the field which is a pretty rare occassion. 

 

EBR might have changed her tune a bit in this interview, but I think it's because she's just tired of the question. Remember, she's been answering this ad nauseum for a long time now. Just look at what EBR said at Comic Con last year... She thinks Felicity is a hero without a suit and she loves it because more people can relate to that. 

 

Honestly, putting Felicity in a suit is probably the last thing the writers are thinking of right now. 

 

I hope you're right. I really don't want her in one as she doesn't need it. Being in the ATOM suit or something like that is more than fine, it's dictated by circumstance and necessity. But there doesn't need to be a tenth maks out there while the coms are unmanned.

[Guest]

Is every thread the bitterness thread now?

 

EBR's definitely tired of the supersuit question. I know I am. They're completely misunderstanding what makes Felicity unique as a character. Aside from Quentin, she's the only one who doesn't wear a mask. It's like the show is having a mask orgy at this point. Enough already. 

 

I wouldn't say no to Felicity doing some self-defense training though. And maybe Diggle can teach her how to shoot. I think that's just common sense at this point and would give me some fun Delicity scenes. 

Edited February 5, 2016 by Guest

[tarotx]

I say EBR just knew her audience and how they fanboy over suits ;)

[bijoux]

Self-defense and shooting practice are also in the more than fine category. Just judging by the way she handled herself in 4x09, I'm chosing to believe there is training going on off screen until the show explicitly tells me otherwise.

[AyChihuahua]

kismet, now you're pushing me into turning out of the show. :) Really, I'm not sure that's a show I would watch.

I think EBR was just being funny and a little snarky.

Edited February 5, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Belinea]

I just wish the show itself hadn't put so much emphasis on the importance of having a mask or a suit.

Therefore EBR seems also be the odd one out. If they kill one of the masked heroes it means that she and Quentin will be the only 'normal' characters. If they kill Quentin, she is going to be the only one left.

In my opinion the show hasn't become better by having all those masks. It sometimes makes it look almost cartoony and it distracts from the actual development of a character.

But then again, I think they are just happy that they don't have to do the 'origin' stories anymore. Because let's be honest apart from Oliver and Diggle nobody should be a good as fighter as they are.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Belinea

[bijoux]

I approve of your reading of the mood, @AyChihuaha.

Edited February 5, 2016 by bijoux

[Orion]

I guess I have the unpopular opinion but I want her in a suit. 

 

I want Felicity/Olicity stunts (since MG claims they are so super hard to do and still be organic). I want to stop seeing people(idiots) in the media asking when Felicity will be a hero. I want Felicity to stop having to carry the emotional weight of the show because she is the sole person without a mask. I want her to have new skills!!  I want Felicity to have her own comic series. I want the DC comic fanboys in management (not the trolls on the internet; I don't care what they thing) to realize they created a brand new super heroine, whose main skills are her brains, her kindness and her inspiration, that fights along side the Green Arrow and I want my daughters in 10 years time to not be able to think Green Arrow without thinking Felicity Smoak in every medium (sorry Smallville fans :) ).

 

 But mainly I don't want her destiny to be the only one that is limited in this show.

 

And I'm not going to get that if the writers keep her chained to that damn desk hacking into the same systems that she has been hacking into for 4 years.

[AyChihuahua]

I approve of your reading of the mood, @AyChihuaha.

She mentioned the squeakiness of leather too many times for me to think she's serious.

 

Also, I'm now thinking how much squeaking there must be when all four leather-clad heroes walk, together, in a row, to yet ANOTHER warehouse.

[dtissagirl]

Stealth mode is never ever achieved ever.

 

 

that fights along side the Green Arrow and I want my daughters in 10 years time to not be able to think Green Arrow without thinking Felicity Smoak in every medium (sorry Smallville fans :) ).

 

For what it's worth, Smallville gave me A PERFECT ENDING to my #1 OTP of all time, and I don't need anything else to happen to that story, because THE ENDING WAS PERFECT. So I'm down with your plan.

[Guest]

I guess I have the unpopular opinion but I want her in a suit. 

 

I want Felicity/Olicity stunts (since MG claims they are so super hard to do and still be organic). I want to stop seeing people(idiots) in the media asking when Felicity will be a hero. I want Felicity to stop having to carry the emotional weight of the show because she is the sole person without a mask. I want her to have new skills!!  I want Felicity to have her own comic series. I want the DC comic fanboys in management (not the trolls on the internet; I don't care what they thing) to realize they created a brand new super heroine, whose main skills are her brains, her kindness and her inspiration, that fights along side the Green Arrow and I want my daughters in 10 years time to not be able to think Green Arrow without thinking Felicity Smoak in every medium (sorry Smallville fans :) ).

 

 But mainly I don't want her destiny to be the only one that is limited in this show.

 

And I'm not going to get that if the writers keep her chained to that damn desk hacking into the same systems that she has been hacking into for 4 years.

 

I do like the sound of everything you've written but I'm conflicted because I don't need Felicity to wear a suit or a mask. I like that it makes her unique among all the other masks. The way they're being written lately basically makes them all interchangeable, IMO. 

 

BUT I would love to see some Olicity stunts every now and then (I always think of the Merlyn Global infiltration scene in s1 as the kind of stunts I like for Felicity) and it would be nice if Felicity got to evolve beyond hacker. Maybe she could finally start to create her own tech. Cisco basically does all that on The Flash. Why can't Felicity?

[Orion]

I do like the sound of everything you've written but I'm conflicted because I don't need Felicity to wear a suit or a mask. I like that it makes her unique among all the other masks. The way they're being written lately basically makes them all interchangeable, IMO. 

 

BUT I would love to see some Olicity stunts every now and then (I always think of the Merlyn Global infiltration scene in s1 as the kind of stunts I like for Felicity) and it would be nice if Felicity got to evolve beyond hacker. Maybe she could finally start to create her own tech. Cisco basically does all that on The Flash. Why can't Felicity?

 

 I see why you wouldn't want it.  :)  Before the show took away OTA from me I would have never wanted a mask for Felicity either. But the show has changed and I think her future needs to change too.

 

Felicity inventing tech is what should be happening right now. It should have been happening all along but that's another issue I have with the TV universe that these producers have created.

 

But inventing tech is not going to elevate Felicity to where I want her to go. It's not going to move her from supporting the Green Arrow to iconic character with comics and merchandise and action figures for years to come. And that's what I want for her.

 

Cisco isn't going to remain a big deal because he invents tech, he's going to be a big deal because he's Vibe (I hate Cisco please don't make talk about Cisco I want to smother him with a pillow until I never have to hear the name Cisco again. :D ).

 

And to be perfectly honest, as much as I hate it with a passion masks get agency. They get story and multiple arc episodes. They get story beats where they are called heroes (whether they deserve it or not). 

 

I hated Felicity off on Palmer island and that Palmer Tech is the new launching pad for every new hero that MG can dream up.  And for a certain portion of people the best future Felicity can have is birthing Olicity children (not that having kids is a bad thing. I have 3 but that's not all I am and that's not all I want for Felicity). That's what she is going to be stuck with without a mask.

 

And I want MORE.  

[kismet]

 I see why you wouldn't want it.  :)  Before the show took away OTA from me I would have never wanted a mask for Felicity either. But the show has changed and I think her future needs to change too.

...

And I want MORE.  

I see your points and I agree. I totally understand people wanting to be special, but until the writers or the TPTB change. With masks come a lot special stuff and power. That being said TQ & LL both got masks and they really didn't see a bump in their storylines. TQ is reliving her deathbed again. LL is there crossing her arms, but hey she got an OQ sparring scene so life goal achieved for KC/LL. Meanwhile, FS got her own villain and a recurring guest star. So not sure masks really make a difference in storylines or screentimes, but it would be nice to see everyone treated as equals outside of the lair in parts of the media. But perhaps her code name may do that.

 

I want more for FS and I want it to be something that is about her and her talents. I want her elevated for her brain, her smarts and her kindness like you said earlier. I don't need or want FS out in the field on a nightly basis, but I don't see why we should limit her to just being behind that computer station. I definitely want more training onscreen or offscreen regardless. So if she needs a mask to get more, than I can get behind that. I really think there is a way to make her a mask that doesn't just make her another mask. And I think a lot of it depends on who dies. If LL dies, I don't want her getting a mask/costume in s4 or 5, because people will assume she is just replacing LL. If QL dies, than I want her to get a mask by/in s5, since she would be the last remaining regular cast member without a mask.

 

I see people's concerns about FS losing some of what makes her unique and special. And I can recognize that it's a valid concern.

 

But I like your sentiment and agree with it.... I WANT MORE!

 

PS - I agree with you about Cisco.... I really don't want FS to become Arrow's Cisco. I want her to contribute something big to the team on a tech level. But engineering is not her specialty. I just don't want a weekly, look at the tech I made for this mission. It should be a variety of skills. She designed the bow. I would love to see her design some other weapons. But what I loved best about s1 & s2, was that OTA worked together to gather information. She can dig for info and bring people down with a few clicks. I want more collaboration of different skill sets and less segregation of tech vs. field work. Honestly, she loves fashion so I would love to see her take an active role on redesigning all of the costumes. Some need a few tweeks like Theas, others need a complete overhaul.

[Morrigan2575]

Maybe take this to Hopes and Dream because this really isn't Spoiler Discussion

[Velocity23]

 

Oliver tells Nyssa to deal with Malcolm herself.

[apinknightmare]

I think Barrowman left a little scenery unchewed there. 

[wonderwall]

Oh Malcolm... Shut up.

I have a question, is Charlotte Ross going to be in episode 13, 14, 17? Or just 13, 17? 

 

If she's in episode 14 I can see her being the person Oliver tells about the kid... 

[Guest]

Everything he does, he does for Thea? Um...say what? Didn't know mind raping her and making her kill Sara was for her benefit. Must have missed that one. LOL.

 

So I'm guessing Nyssa gets defeated and Malcolm takes the magic lotus flower and cures Thea. Sigh. Nyssa just can't catch a break. 

[wonderwall]

Everything he does, he does for Thea? Um...say what? Didn't know mind raping her and making her kill Sara was for her benefit. Must have missed that one. LOL.

 

So I'm guessing Nyssa gets defeated and Malcolm takes the magic lotus flower and cures Thea. Sigh. Nyssa just can't catch a break. 

 

Would you rather Laurel convince Nyssa to help Thea or Malcolm to take the lotus and give it to Thea?

 

Sophie's Choice? 

[Balaclava]

Oh Malcolm... Shut up.

I have a question, is Charlotte Ross going to be in episode 13, 14, 17? Or just 13, 17? 

 

If she's in episode 14 I can see her being the person Oliver tells about the kid... 

 

13/14 and 17 I'm from the opinion she's the one Oliver tells about the kid

[wonderwall]

13/14 and 17 I'm from the opinion she's the one Oliver tells about the kid

Thank you! :D

[Guest]

Would you rather Laurel convince Nyssa to help Thea or Malcolm to take the lotus and give it to Thea?

 

Sophie's Choice? 

 

Hmm. Laurel will probably be the one to convince Nyssa. I actually don't care at this point. The whole storyline is kind of tired. I mean, it's so lucky that this magical lotus appeared just when Thea needed it most. *eye roll*

Edited February 6, 2016 by Guest

[statsgirl]

If Donna is the one who Oliver tells about the kid and she replies that he did the right thing, I"m going to throw things at my TV.

 

I read another theory about the USB. That it was the start of something that could make Felicity walk again. 

If they want Tom A. to come back in future seasons in a he's bad!he's good! Malcolm Merlyn type of way, having him contribute to Felicity walking again would redeem him enough for a start.

 

 

Just to be clear, SA didn't say OQ's lie was one of omission. He said he argued for a lie of omission but did not get his way. Guggie wanted a flat-out lie, SA wanted a lie of omission, and they met in the middle. When OQ said it was over, knowing that he planned to see the kid again, that is not a lie of omission.

I wouldn't put it past them to spin it as Oliver didn't intend to see the kid in the boob cuddle scene but after Felicity got shot, he realized life was short and he needed to make contact with his son.

 

Good lord, I wish this storyline were over!

[nksarmi]

Would you rather Laurel convince Nyssa to help Thea or Malcolm to take the lotus and give it to Thea?

 

Sophie's Choice? 

I'll take Laurel Alex for $2,000!

 

Laurel essentially persuading Nyssa to do a good thing (and I don't think it would take much) rates a heck of lot higher with me than Malcolm defeating Nyssa again.  I honestly can't decide what I hate more - that Nyssa ever had to bow to that man or that Thea was forced to nurse him back to health.

[Morrigan2575]

I know people love Barrowman/Malcolm but I've always found his acting to be too cheesy. He was pretty good on Doctor Who/Torchwood but, on Arrow it's just too OOT for me.

That scene clip was everything I hate about Barrowman's performance

[wonderwall]

I'll take Laurel Alex for $2,000!

 

Laurel essentially persuading Nyssa to do a good thing (and I don't think it would take much) rates a heck of lot higher with me than Malcolm defeating Nyssa again.  I honestly can't decide what I hate more - that Nyssa ever had to bow to that man or that Thea was forced to nurse him back to health.

 

On the one hand, I hate how Nyssa would listen to a woman who essentially put her in jail and didn't even try to help get her out... On the other hand, the writers won't make Laurel useless in this episode again... Right? I mean one of the very very few things Laurel has to her advantage is a connection to Nyssa. But then again, I truly am skeptical of this connection because if I were Nyssa I would've burned the bridge down a while ago. 

 

Both of those choices I listed are terrible. But Laurel is the lesser of two evils.

Edited February 6, 2016 by wonderwall

[kismet]

Everything he does, he does for Thea? Um...say what? Didn't know mind raping her and making her kill Sara was for her benefit. Must have missed that one. LOL.

He was making her stronger and capable of making the hard choices.... It's in the well-known guidebook - "How to be an Evil Dad", now conveniently available in mobile app or smoke form for emergencies. Ras authored chapters in his younger days. Passed out to all Fathers on the birth of their first born.  :)

 

PS - I now have the Bryan Adams song stuck in my head.. Everything I do, I do it for you. :) Good song and bonus points for archery usage in the video.

Edited February 6, 2016 by kismet

[kismet]

If Donna is the one who Oliver tells about the kid and she replies that he did the right thing, I"m going to throw things at my TV.

Donna always made sense to me to be the one to side with OQ. Even before it all got complicated. I'm actually happy its going to be Donna. I think it should be a parent. MM needs to keep his mouth shut since he is worst parent on the show. QL makes little sense, although he does support the lie to you loved ones philosophy. I really didn't want to see Dig take OQ's side over FS again. And Lyla, well she thinks just like OQ, so not enough surprise there. I don't mind if its a parent, because most parents I know would do anything for their child and although he didn't think it through all the way, I think he was trying to put William above his own needs.

 

Does anyone know if DS lives in Vegas anymore? Because part of me wonders if she moved to CC, to be closer to FS & QL, but not too close. And perhaps she sees William and pieces it together. Or maybe she is just vacationing there.

 

If they want Tom A. to come back in future seasons in a he's bad!he's good! Malcolm Merlyn type of way, having him contribute to Felicity walking again would redeem him enough for a start.

However, I now wonder if they are going to use it to put a wedge between Donna & FS. If DS did something similar years ago, I can see her siding with OQ. I can also see how FS would be upset that her mother & her fiance are joining forces against her again. And that is going to lead her into the open arms of her father, whom I do not trust. It's classic wedge and separate to get someone to join your questionable mission. By the time PS, isolates FS from the protectiveness of DS & OQ, she will be vulnerable and likely to make a few bad decisions of her own - I'm guessing related to PT's future.

 

I wouldn't put it past them to spin it as Oliver didn't intend to see the kid in the boob cuddle scene but after Felicity got shot, he realized life was short and he needed to make contact with his son.

Nice motive - still VERY BAD DECISION with little to defend it, unless he is working on BM to get her to concede her ultimatum. Then perhaps not as bad.

 

Good lord, I wish this storyline were over!

Don't we all! And I was looking forward to surprise kid and everything. I just forgot which show I was watching. Be careful what you wish for I guess.

[catrox14]

I love how Malcolm is still totally self-delusional.  He said the same things about Tommy in that all the shitty things he did was for the city and for Tommy,even cutting him off financially, was supposed to be for his own good IIRC.

 

I kind of love that IMO he's really not changed at all.  Which is why IMO he works as a villain.

[statsgirl]

Donna always made sense to me to be the one to side with OQ. Even before it all got complicated. I'm actually happy its going to be Donna. I think it should be a parent. MM needs to keep his mouth shut since he is worst parent on the show. QL makes little sense, although he does support the lie to you loved ones philosophy. I really didn't want to see Dig take OQ's side over FS again. And Lyla, well she thinks just like OQ, so not enough surprise there. I don't mind if its a parent, because most parents I know would do anything for their child and although he didn't think it through all the way, I think he was trying to put William above his own needs.

If he were trying to put William above his own needs, wouldn't he avoid visiting William while DD is determined to hurt the people close to him?

 

I don't mind if it's a parent; just let it not be Felicity's parent.  Oliver lying to Felicity and making secret visits to see the kid is bad enough; having her mother support his betrayal is too much to put on Felicity.

 

I agree that it's far too soon to have Diggle side with Oliver against Felicity, both because he did that just last season and because he was fighting with Oliver at the start of this.

 

It might be Lyla but I would hope that she's too smart to ever think that keeping that secret would work.  Is the timing wrong for it to be her father?

 

Honestly, I wish Laurel would find out and in a lawyery manner kick Oliver all around the room for agreeing to it.

[bijoux]

I know people love Barrowman/Malcolm but I've always found his acting to be too cheesy. He was pretty good on Doctor Who/Torchwood but, on Arrow it's just too OOT for me.

That scene clip was everything I hate about Barrowman's performance

That scene is incredible. The writing is completely WTF and then Barrowman just hurls it into sooooo much cheese. I am laughing so hard, guys. I can't help myself. It's so bad it's good.

[catrox14]

That scene is incredible. The writing is completely WTF and then Barrowman just hurls it into sooooo much cheese. I am laughing so hard, guys. I can't help myself. It's so bad it's good.

 

I think without seeing everything leading up to it or what comes after, it comes across as way OTT but I think he's really good with getting right to the edge without going over. 

[EmilyBettFan]

I know people love Barrowman/Malcolm but I've always found his acting to be too cheesy. He was pretty good on Doctor Who/Torchwood but, on Arrow it's just too OOT for me.

That scene clip was everything I hate about Barrowman's performance

No I agree with you. The only time he had me awed by his acting was when he was shouting to Tommy that all of the people in the glades need to die.

[BkWurm1]

It will be interesting to see what FS's perspective is on lying. She seemed okay in past seasons with for the greater good & not my secret to tell as things that helped assuage her guilt. The last time she was brutally honest and told the truth without reservation was the MM father reveal. And I wonder now, if she regrets telling OQ about MM, because without revealing that to OQ - perhaps MQ would not have died, TQ would not have lost the Queen fortune & perhaps biggest of all TQ may never have run off with MM. Because once she told OQ it set irrevocable wheels in motion. Yes, OQ has free will to tell TQ or not - but still if FS had never told OQ, he never would have had to make that choice to lie or not lie to his sister. Once the paternity secret was revealed all the backlash would have fallen rightly on MQ, and perhaps TQ could have found solace in OQ, as opposed to turning him away as part of the conspiracy. That was a pricey secret to reveal. FS might not have lost OQ, but she forever changed his world.

 

Since that time she has seemed more okay with the morally grey. Numerous crimes, felonies and legal infractions made under the guise of vigilantism for the greater good. She was okay with killing Ras. She was okay with threatening MM and bankrupting people who did bad things. Lies to QL.The whole SL is not dead ruse. She didn't tell RP about OQ & vice versa. She kept secrets from OQ about TeamArrowless during their relationship.

 

I don't think Felicity would have done it any differently.  It was a secret that she refused to keep from Oliver because she felt it was important that he know and she wasn't going to be the one the kept it from him because lying to him about something like that would be I think in her opinion, a breach of trust.  Which is why I think the secret kid lie will be such a problem.  Some lies could be justified but this one from my perspective is a choice as to who he values being honest with more and yes, I'm sure that's not how Oliver thought of it, but that's IMO the stakes. 

 

I do think that getting some perspective and both of them realizing that they see it from different standpoints could be the very thing that would let them learn from this and move forward, but nobody ever gets to explain the details that might mitigate the circumstances, not the real crucial ones at least (like with Poppy- that her brother was trying to kill Oliver was important for her to know).

 

Now to the question of Donna finding out and understanding Oliver's choice...two things: 

 

1) The only reason that Oliver had better be telling anyone about BMD is if he's also asking advice as to how to tell Felicity because the second anyone knows the truth, then his promise to BM is already null and void and makes keeping it from Felicity completely pointless.  Barry at least doesn't know the name of the kid or where he lives or even his name. 

 

2) I think Donna being sympathetic could work and happen after everyone knows about the kid but not before.  She wouldn't keep that from Felicity.  I really believe she'd insist that Oliver tell her immediately.  Maybe give him the chance with the condition if you don't I will.  But if she found out after the fact, yeah, I think Donna could offer a good perspective. 

 

Which to me means that she probably isn't the one that finds out before Felicity.  Quentin would be a likely candidate to think Oliver could be doing the right thing.  Protect the kid no matter what.  (Even though logic says Felicity knowing could make the kid safer since you know she'd monitor who is sniffing around the kid in person or digitally)  Somehow I can also imagine them trying to use Laurel to be the one in on the secret.  She already knows about the time travel.  But of course if she agrees with Oliver I will know that the show wants me to see him as wrong. 

 

 

 

I feel like we would be better off served to be looking for the characters with the least amount of anvils. Too many anvils to me almost makes them more likely to live. Remember the Arrow writers think they are crafty & sneaky. We need to look at the negative space, not the subject.

It's IMO all about timing.  ALL the characters are getting anvils but I agree they will likely back off of someone (Quentin) once it gets close to the end. 

 

 

I guess I have the unpopular opinion but I want her in a suit. 

 

I want Felicity/Olicity stunts (since MG claims they are so super hard to do and still be organic). I want to stop seeing people(idiots) in the media asking when Felicity will be a hero. I want Felicity to stop having to carry the emotional weight of the show because she is the sole person without a mask. I want her to have new skills!!  I want Felicity to have her own comic series. I want the DC comic fanboys in management (not the trolls on the internet; I don't care what they thing) to realize they created a brand new super heroine, whose main skills are her brains, her kindness and her inspiration, that fights along side the Green Arrow and I want my daughters in 10 years time to not be able to think Green Arrow without thinking Felicity Smoak in every medium (sorry Smallville fans :) ).

 

 But mainly I don't want her destiny to be the only one that is limited in this show.

 

And I'm not going to get that if the writers keep her chained to that damn desk hacking into the same systems that she has been hacking into for 4 years.

I think I want them to reboot the comics and go that route in the comics but largely leave Felicity suit-less on Arrow.  What I would take is Felicity stepping in as a training partner.  She doesn't have to be good enough to ever go out in the field to be the person holding up the punching pads or helping someone hone a technique in the early stages of learning it. There really is no reason why she too can't come play in the sparing sessions sometimes.  I'd be game to see ALL of them just working out together.   Just something to shake up the scenery. 

 

And yes, she needs more chances to work with the team in the field.  Likely that would mean more times where they can't go out in masks.  I want them to use her connections in the Billionaire world to get them into parties or behind the scene access to whatever they need.  I'm bored with just breaking in and fighting guards.  Brute force gets old and dull fast.  They need to mix it up not just for Felicity to have different stuff happen to her but so the same can be said about all the other characters. 

[tv echo]

I can see Donna siding with Oliver over the whole BM drama. If that's the case, I agree that we're likely going to find out that it was Donna's decision that Papa Smoak (do we even know his real name in the show?) leave the family because she knew how bad he was or was becoming, and she didn't want her daughter around that.

 

Regarding Oliver not accepting Nyssa's offer, I remember the EPs (MG?) once saying that they decide on what will happen in the season finale and then write the season's episodes leading up to that final episode.  So that each episode is like a step in the chain.  While we watch and criticize each episode individually, the EPs are thinking, 'wait until it all plays out'.  So what we're seeing is Oliver facing the same dilemmas that he faced in S3, but making different decisions.  Thus we have what first appears to be S3 redux (Nyssa offer), but then this Oliver handles it a different way.  But the whole BMD still stumps me and appears to be an exception to this new, better Oliver decisionmaking.  Maybe I'll be surprised - I hope so.