Spoiler Discussion Thread

[way2interested]

This is going to sound weird.

 

GothFelicity sounds more like EBR than Felicity does. Tone wise.

 

No, I totally get you, I hear the same. Stephen had the same deal in 401 when Oliver sounded more like him than his regular Oliver voice. 

[statsgirl]

I'm still optimistic, for now anyway.  From the EW sneak peek:

 

“The wheelchair is the beginning of Felicity’s story this year, not the end of it,” executive producer Marc Guggenheim tells EW. “I read online people saying, ‘Oh, lighter season my ass.’ I would argue that for Arrow, this is lighter. What’s particularly lighter is Felicity’s reaction to her injury and the way she handles it.”

 

In short, Felicity’s reaction — as seen in the exclusive video above — is definitely not what you’re expecting. “Last year, there would’ve been a lot of sobbing and crying,” Guggenheim continues. “This year, you’ll see that, in many ways, Felicity comes into her own in a much greater way than she would have had she not faced this adversity. Whatever doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger. You’re really going to see that in the upcoming episodes with Felicity.”

I love that Hallucination Felicity is there to kick Pity Party Felicity's ass.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm still optimistic, for now anyway. From the EW sneak peek:

I love that Hallucination Felicity is there to kick Pity Party Felicity's ass.

Have you learned nothing from S3? Don't trust Guggie, he's evil ;-)

[Chaser]

Going back to the wedding spoilers for a second. I just had an awful thought. Could it possibly be a political thing? Oliver starts going down in the polls after secret son comes out and Alex suggests a public wedding to help Oliver win? Yeah Felicity totally broke up with him in 415 but to help fight the very bad Darhk's she agrees to a political marriage?

You're right. That's an awful thought. I would think that there would have been tons of extras and everyone would be there - political wedding or not. If so though, I could see why Felicity would be furious at him. 

 

To the discussion on whether or not Oliver and Felicity reconcile at the end of the season. I think it depends on the break up. If it's a hard break up, like Oliver goes to visits his kid or he does something else stupid which leads Felicity to chuck the ring at his head. I could see them broken up thru the summer. They would have enough episodes to get them back together before the 100th. However if they take a soft break on the relationship, like everything is crashing around Felicity and she just needs space but Oliver continues to support her (and he hasn't been sneaking around to see the kid), then I could see them getting back together.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Chaser

[calliope1975]

This is stupid, but I'm bummed about the fake wedding. I don't know why but even though it's probably just a hallucination, I'd rather the first time I see Felicity in a wedding dress, it be the actual wedding. Who knew I was such a traditionalist? 

[SonofaBiscuit]

Oh MG, how I hate you so.  The paralysis storyline is "lighter" because Felicity isn't sobbing and crying?  Fuck off!  This show will continue to suck as long as he's involved in any capacity.  Please invest your time and energy in LoT, because I have no intention of watching that show.  Ugh, this man is like the Laurel Lance of EPs.  He ruins everything!  

[AyChihuahua]

I don't have any super-strong feelings about whether they will or should be back together by the end of the season, largely bc we know so little, but also bc even if it were a huge colossal breakup and Oliver banged BM and Felicity told him she hates his guts...if they want them together at the end of the season, they will be, regardless of it being a completely ridiculous tacked-on five minute happy ending scene. 

[calliope1975]

Oh MG, how I hate you so.  The paralysis storyline is "lighter" because Felicity isn't sobbing and crying?  Fuck off!  This show will continue to suck as long as he's involved in any capacity.  Please invest your time and energy in LoT, because I have no intention of watching that show.  Ugh, this man is like the Laurel Lance of EPs.  He ruins everything!  

 

Dontchaknow paralysis is all super fun times?! Cuz, like, you don't have to walk anymore? While I appreciate not having to watch all doom and gloom, I really hope MG is misrepresenting this story line, because I can't even put into words the level of grossness I feel over taking paralysis lightly. 

[Chaser]

I checked out a few of the people who got the screeners. No one is really giving any spoilers. They just it was a good episode, one said that it was really the quiet moments that stood out, another said there where some 'delightful' Olicity scenes, one teased the codename.

 

Nothing much.

[lemotomato]

This is stupid, but I'm bummed about the fake wedding. I don't know why but even though it's probably just a hallucination, I'd rather the first time I see Felicity in a wedding dress, it be the actual wedding. Who knew I was such a traditionalist?

I'm bummed too. I feel like a fake wedding dilutes the impact of seeing the real wedding because it's not the first time we're going to be seeing them like that.

But it does fit the pattern established that all of the Olicity milestones are sad. First kiss, first time, first proposal, now first wedding. And technically, how they find out about Oliver's first kid.

[Velocity23]

So David Ramsey admitted that its someone on the team. So Donna doesnt die.

http://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-david-ramsey-diggle-the-grave/

[statsgirl]

Wow.

 

He must have got permission to hint that it's someone on the team.

 

So we're down to Thea, Laurel and maybe Roy?

[lemotomato]

It's just David Ramsey speculating based on Felicity's reaction, just like the rest of us. Doesn't sound like he has inside info

Edited January 26, 2016 by lemotomato

[apinknightmare]

It's just David Ramsey speculating based on Felicity's reaction, just like the rest of us. Doesn't sound like he has inside info

 

 

I agree. I don't think he knows one way or the other. 

[Velocity23]

I bet they all know by now. Especially since KC keeps saying who knows its TV.

 

Why would David not even mention Donna. I think they know the person in the grave is at least someone from the team.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Velocity23

[statsgirl]

Since they're shooting 4x16 right now, they're prepping 4x17 and breaking 4x18.  I think the death is in 4x18 or 4x19 so maybe they do all know by now.

 

I don't think DR would say "So, it has to be someone closer to the team." if he were just speculating and didn't know.  And I don't think he'd put such a flashing arrow (pun accidental) pointing at the team unless the EPs had given him permission to.  He's too much of an old pro for that.

Edited January 26, 2016 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

Well, I mean...it's not a long shot to guess that it's someone on the team. The only person on the show who's a death candidate who isn't on the team is Donna. Not saying he doesn't know, but I don't think anything about that answer screams that he does. 

[tangerine95]

I think they all know by now.And even if he's just guessing which I doubt,it does make sense what he says about why Lance is unlikely.At first I thought they can get away with killing him but the more they hype it the more Lance feels like a cop out.The fact that he jokes around about it being him imo means he knows it not.Though tbh I never thought it would be Diggle.

[statsgirl]

I think Lance and Donna were reasonable guesses, and Samantha and William were longshots, but he's ruled all four of them out now.

 

So it really is a big death.

[apinknightmare]

Eh, never mind.

Edited January 26, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

Lol.

 

Maybe they are trying to dodge a Plec. Everyone called Damon going human so they switched it to Katherine. Everyone is calling Lance so they sent out Diggle to misdirect because it is Lance.

[dtissagirl]

All Ramsey made me think was "so, it's Lance, right?"

[Morrigan2575]

Since they're shooting 4x16 right now, they're prepping 4x17 and breaking 4x18. I think the death is in 4x18 or 4x19 so maybe they do all know by now.

I don't think DR would say "So, it has to be someone closer to the team." if he were just speculating and didn't know. And I don't think he'd put such a flashing arrow (pun accidental) pointing at the team unless the EPs had given him permission to. He's too much of an old pro for that.

Minor change and Dancingnancy can correct me if i have it wrong.

Filming 416

Prepping 417

Written 418

Writing 419

Breaking 420+

Edited January 26, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[lexicon]

Really? Because I would think it's completely rational and would be 100% in character for someone like Felicity. If I were in her shoes and my fiance withheld the fact that he was willing to marry me without telling me I'd be an instant stepmom I'd be beyond livid. IMO, that's not even remotely like Oliver withholding the fact that he's working with Malcolm to save the city. Oliver lying about the existence of a kid directly impacts Felicity and her relationship with him. I'd be disappointed if she isn't hard on him about such a thing.

 

To me the lie is a big enough reason for her to want to step away from him, from their whole relationship and essentially from planning a life with him. I can see how she could question everything once she finds out because while Felicity has been planning their life, maybe mapping their possible future in her head, Oliver has been keeping a major secret that impacts on all of that. Worse the lie is not a one off thing, just something that he said or did in the heat of the moment, it's an intention to build a life and a marriage with her, while never revealing the truth. It means not just one giant continuous lie but the intention to tell a series of others every time he wants to visit his son. While I agree that she knows he's not perfect and is a work in progress, I just think that for a woman who thinks she knows him best in the world, that will be a hard pill to swallow. 

 

Then we have the reason. What possible reason could Oliver advance that wouldn't make Felicity understand his need to lie? If we accept MG's reasoning, he'll say he had no choice because BM made him promise, I cannot see how that wouldn't raise the same questions for her that we had with that it. Why honour a promise to BM (who lied and kept your son from you) and not FS? Why not tell FS without letting BM know, did he not trust that she would be able to keep a secret? Has she not proven herself able to do that?

 

Also, I think the reason this lie will burn more than those LOA ones last season, it's because it relates to them and their relationship solely. I can see FS separate Oliver's lying it in her mind in the sense that she's always known that when it came to life and death situations Oliver will do whatever is necessary including lying and sacrificing himself to protect those he loves. When it comes to them and their relationship though I think she expects (rightly so) that he will behave differently. I think she expects better and by and large he has been delivering it because even his freak out last ep had to do with him dealing with his fear for her being put in a life threatening situation. This is different. This is simply a woman finding out that the man she loves has a child who he intends to keep a secret from her and who he intends to sneak visits to for the rest of his life without ever telling her. Not even after they got married, or had kids of their own. I could absolutely see why that would make her question the foundation of their relationship which always seemed to be based on their trust in the other, even when they barely knew each other and had no reason to do so. Then there's the kicker, if he'll lie about this, what else will he lie about? Can she trust him again?

 

I'm not saying that these are insurmountable obstacles but if she reacted by breaking off everything with him when she found out the truth, I would not be surprised or blame her in the slightest. 

[Guest]

I promised myself I wasn't going to watch any sneak peeks this season but I caved watching Felicity's because well, it's Felicity. Duh. And I liked what I saw. I didn't like seeing her push herself around in the chair but I'm literally never going to like or get used to that. But I liked what they were doing with the hallucination. I think it's an interesting take on how to get her fears/insecurities across. And whatever happens, EBR is gonna kill it. 

[SleepDeprived]

Yeah. That was a good sneak peak. Also, the music reveal of Goth!Felicity reminded me of Orphan Black. So, kudos to all who realized that the tech scene teased for this episode would be the tech work around the hallucination. Since she's a big fan of OB, it must've been thrilling for EBR to be able to do something similar to what Tatiana Maslany does on the reg.

[wonderwall]

Also, I'd like to say that Felicity's hair is so on point in that scene. Loving the hair department this year :p

 

I'm really loving what that sneak peek showed us, makes me want to see more of it. Can't wait to see EBR knock this out of the park because I really do think she's nuanced enough to see a tonal difference between the characters two Felicitys

[AyChihuahua]

Apparently Guggie and WM were just in Vancouver. Based on where they are in filming/writing/breaking episodes, it seems that whoever is in the grave has been worked out, and I don't see how they could break it without the actor having been told/legal issues having been worked out. So were they in town to tell the person?

[Primal Slayer]

Ramsey came 100% off as pure speculating to me. Donna could still be in the running but we'll have to see.

[apinknightmare]

Apparently Guggie and WM were just in Vancouver. Based on where they are in filming/writing/breaking episodes, it seems that whoever is in the grave has been worked out, and I don't see how they could break it without the actor having been told/legal issues having been worked out. So were they in town to tell the person?

 

 

Could be. Getting shitcanned isn't ever fun, but the blow must be somewhat softened to have someone actually fly out to do it, haha.

[thegirlsleuth]

I remember Andrew Kreisberg doing an interview where he said that he and Berlanti had a deal where Kreisberg would always have to fire the actors, but I can see where it would fall to Guggenheim and Mericles now. 

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, I don't think they would ask AJK to do this one.

They told Colin and (I believe) Caity in person but called Susanna on the phone to let her know.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

Could be. Getting shitcanned isn't ever fun, but the blow must be somewhat softened to have someone actually fly out to do it, haha.

And KC's tweet was yesterday, which would make sense re timing. GRR, I hate this! 

Laura Hurley got a screener. She said 4.11 is one of the best episodes of S4. She also said there's a holy shit moment, but she wouldn't say good or bad holy shit. She just said she was "surprised" by the holy shit moment.

[lexicon]

So I guess SM watch begins now. Let the games begin...

[Morrigan2575]

Let the insanity begin

[apinknightmare]

So I guess SM watch begins now. Let the games begin...

 

Yep. Someone's probably going to be posting vacay pics soon. 

[lemotomato]

KC is scheduled to attend Dallas Comic Con in mid February. I still don't dare to hope it's LL in the grave, but if she cancels, I might change my mind.

Edited January 27, 2016 by lemotomato

[calliope1975]

I need someone to corner SA. He apparently can't help himself with giving out huge spoilers to fans who'll keep quiet, and we all know he has no poker face.

[Morrigan2575]

I need someone to corner SA. He apparently can't help himself with giving out huge spoilers to fans who'll keep quiet, and we all know he has no poker face.

Just get him drunk. LOL

[GirlvsTV]

Hmmm, well if MG and WM actually traveled to tell the cast member in person I think that kind of rules out it being Donna or Alex or Curtis - and probably BM and kid too. I don't think they'd go that far for any of the guest stars or recurring actors.

[Guest]

I'm still gonna go with it being Lance. They'd probably use his death to motivate Laurel and give her some story next season. Felicity would be upset about anyone dying, especially if Lance maybe helped save her or something? Maybe he saved her mom. Who knows?

 

All I know is that constantly looking for signs on social media is gonna be juuuuuust great. At this rate I'll be cheering on the death to hurry up and happen already.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Guest

[SleepDeprived]

Ooohh! It's time for the social media watch/grave specs to ramp up some more? Awesome. I'm 100% being sarcastic.

 

But since Felicity was fine in the flashforward and the Diggles are the only ones in the death race that I'm worried about (even so, I'm about 95% sure they'll be safe, too), I guess I'm just gonna settle in, then. I do love watching the PTV detective-ing at work.

[lemotomato]

Actually, will we really get clues through social media this time? If you think about it, CH was probably allowed to post vacation pics and old photos (and SA posted stuff captioned "the last time") because the show *wanted* us to believe that Roy would be killed. If they really want to keep the death a secret this time, I doubt we'll find clues they don't want us to find.

[Morrigan2575]

I don't know if they can control it? Can they force an actor to stay in Vancouver of they don't have to work?

Edited January 27, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

Actually, will we really get clues through social media this time? If you think about it, CH was probably allowed to post vacation pics and old photos (and SA posted stuff captioned "the last time") because the show *wanted* us to believe that Roy would be killed. If they really want to keep the death a secret this time, I doubt we'll find clues they don't want us to find.

I don't expect anything obvious, but being fired is likely to be stressful, so something might show. 

[tangerine95]

I think whoever it is will post old set pics to make it seem like they're filming.The cast will post old pics with them too imo.I remember that happening with Colton.People were able to tell they're old though so we'll see if this time they're better at hiding it lol.But yeah I think after a while we will know for sure though.

[SmallScreenDiva]

They can also mess with the fans and start posting old set pics implying someone is dying and then pull a switcheroo. I just don't think it will be easy to figure out this time. 

[nksarmi]

LOL I can't wait till you guys figure it out through tweets.

 

If it's a team member, I think that not only eliminates Donna, it rules out Lance too.  Which to me would mean Diggle or Laurel and that would be on hell of a shocker for me.  I know that Thea is a member of the team, but Oliver is not that calm if it's Thea and come on - been there, done that already.

[dtissagirl]

Colton was so announcing he was leaving the show, though. I think he really didn't want to, so he just made it clear on social media. First he posted that EBR was being a great friend when he got bad news. Then he invited his best friend from LA over to Vancouver, and they spent a week doing Instagrammable tourist-y things all over town, like he was saying goodbye to the city. Then he went to his mother's for a long time. So even though Roy didn't die, it was pretty obvious Colton was not filming the show anymore.

I think this time around, whoever it is will be told to STAY QUIET, but there's some things they can't control, like paps catching actors leaving Van and not coming back, for example.

[Chaser]

I'm musing.

The tweet from ArrowWriters made it sound like they were flying back to LA today. It would make sense if they are telling the grave party now. I'm thinking they would have told them yesterday and not over the weekend since the whole cast with the exception of EBR was supposed to be at the Con. I wonder if they would tell the party on a day they were filming. Everyone on the regular cast was spotted filming except PB and KC. I checked PBs Twitter and IG to see if he was in Van and he posted a pic from a park up there.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Chaser