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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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hogwash

hogwash

I'll never forgive S03 for making me watch ~sympathetic~ Malcolm Merlyn flashbacks. He was so heartbroken that his neglected wife got murdered, he abandoned his 8(?) year old son, joined the LOA and hatched a plan to murder 1000+ poor people. Insert this is brand new information gif. Anyway, I hope stupid-for-plot Oliver isn't around when Malcolm is giving this advice/talk. 

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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tarotx

tarotx

So reading to much into that WM article....

 

Oliver is going to get kicked out of Team Arrow. The team will side with Felicity. Oliver will team up with Malcolm who wants DD for nefarious reasons but does want him dead. 

 

DD does need to die. Thea has joined team Arrow so her killing DD seems like a good option. The problem will be what it will do to her soul. Killing is never good for the soul. Leads me back to thinking Alex's only point is to be the one in the grave and Thea is the one who put him there. 

 

Sounds too much like season 3...

 

It does sound like Malcolm might be the one who tells Oliver that keeping the news from Felicity is a good play. Oh god they do like making Oliver stupid. SMH. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

It does sound like Malcolm might be the one who tells Oliver that keeping the news from Felicity is a good play. Oh god they do like making Oliver stupid. SMH. 

 

"Keeping a child secret is a great idea, Oliver. After all, look what happened to your sister when I found out she was my daughter!"

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

Crazily enough, I would actually prefer Malcolm to be the one who tells Oliver he did the right thing keeping his kid a secret. He's morally bankrupt so it would tell me that Oliver is in the wrong, ultimately. But knowing this show, they're gonna have it be someone like Diggle or Donna and Felicity will come out of it looking like the bad guy for being upset.

 

LOL nope. Not letting this go yet. 

Edited by Guest
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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

Of course Malcolm would say that keeping the truth from people is bad.  The guy has a flat learning curve.

 

They really seem to be fascinated with pairing Malcolm with Oliver.  No, just no.  It always makes Oliver more stupid and more unlikable.

 

When they use Malcolm well,  he's a useful character.  The cross-overs used him well.  The problem is that they love him so much. they over-use him him and then it just gets ridiculous (see season 3).

 

Speaking of which, they're so proud about saying that they listen to audience feedback. I hope they noted it over BM and cut down her story as I assume they did with DJ Douche.  Those comments and gifs are hilarious.

It also looks like lazy writing to me. Splitting the team into two locations would mean they would have to actually write separate storylines for different locations [even if one house search is a bust, that needs writing], and they don't seem inclined to do that.

It's lazy writing because they only have to write one story for them, but it also hurts the show because it's much better when a) there are two stories to pay attention to (NOT the flashbacks) and b) what each character does makes sense.  Oliver leaving Diggle behind to take Laurel doesn't.

 

the whole Eskimo Brothering

I know this is an Urban Dictionary phrase but it always bothers me, partly because the term Eskimo is leftover from racist day (they call themselves Inuit) and because it's not accurate..

Edited by statsgirl
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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)

Crazily enough, I would actually prefer Malcolm to be the one who tells Oliver he did the right thing keeping his kid a secret. He's morally bankrupt so it would tell me that Oliver is in the wrong, ultimately. But knowing this show, they're gonna have it be someone like Diggle or Donna and Felicity will come out of it looking like the bad guy for being upset.

 

What I'd like best is logical, character-based storytelling, and I don't think we got that in 408, so we're starting this storyline on a bad foot. MG didn't sell "Oliver's side" effectively AT ALL in 408, and now the rest of the season is going to have to play as though he did, so my only hope is that they handle it better going forward.

 

Since we already know that MG is very sympathetic to Oliver's position and Samantha's demands, we know the show will not 100% condemn Oliver's actions. So I'm not opposed to someone seeing Oliver's side of things, but I basically need that person to be someone with moral standing and some authority to speak from (i.e., a parent), because it's the only way to salvage the storyline from the damage done by MG failing to understand human emotion and behavior. 

 

But if they're going to ground that sympathy in a statement made by Malcolm? Then it won't hold together and the whole storyline will be an even bigger failure than it already is. So I can't root for that option at all.

 

And also because I don't see Felicity being painted as the bad guy here just because someone on the show thinks Oliver's actions were understandable. I like this show because the characters have always differed on their moral lines and their ideas for the best approach in any situation. I don't think one character supporting Oliver's position will negate Felicity's (presumed) position. But we'll see. At this point, the lie is the least of my concerns about the Kid story.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

What I'd like best is logical, character-based storytelling, and I don't think we got that in 408, so we're starting this storyline on a bad foot. MG didn't sell "Oliver's side" effectively AT ALL in 408, and now the rest of the season is going to have to play as though he did, so my only hope is that they handle it better going forward.

 

Since we already know that MG is very sympathetic to Oliver's position and Samantha's demands, we know the show will not 100% condemn Oliver's actions. So I'm not opposed to someone seeing Oliver's side of things, but I basically need that person to be someone with moral standing and some authority to speak from (i.e., a parent), because it's the only way to salvage the storyline from the damage done by MG failing to understand human emotion and behavior. 

 

But if they're going to ground that sympathy in a statement made by Malcolm? Then it won't hold together and the whole storyline will be an even bigger failure than it already is. So I can't root for that option at all.

 

And also because I don't see Felicity being painted as the bad guy here just because someone on the show thinks Oliver's actions were understandable. I like this show because the characters have always differed on their moral lines and their ideas for the best approach in any situation. I don't think one character supporting Oliver's position will negate Felicity's (presumed) position. But we'll see. At this point, the lie is the least of my concerns about the Kid story.

 

While I agree with pretty much everything you've said, I'm simply going on the precedent that if Felicity has an emotional reaction that isn't in line with Oliver, she's viewed as the bad guy. Or she cries too much. Or she's whiny. That's my only issue here. It's like they're setting her up to get hated on and I don't appreciate that, especially when the set-up to the whole BM storyline rests on one lie and can be solved with one simple discussion. The whole thing is a mess so I'm already assuming the fallout will be messy too.

Edited by Guest
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

For me, anyone good agreeing with Oliver's idiocy (and it is idiocy, bc all he has to do is tell just Felicity, for now anyway, instead he's choosing BM over Felicity) doesn't make the idiocy less idiotic, it makes the agreeing character ALSO look idiotic. Diggle telling Oliver not to tell Thea he was the Arrow made me think Digg was much dumber than I thought him to be. Same with Digg telling Oliver to ditch Roy and especially telling Felicity to...whatever that was...about Felicity dating Ray. None of that made me think more of those storylines; they made me think less of Digg. Just like Felicity supporting Laurel in being a vigilante was the first time I ever thought Felicity was kind of dumb. So make the agreeing person someone bad, and I will love the hell out of it.

 

They really do have a thing for partnering Oliver and Malcolm. It's getting kind of weird now. 

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Chaser

Chaser

Basically all the people that could pull Oliver back are doing through some morally grey or darkness themselves. Thea with the bloodlust and Diggle with Andy. So he Teams with Malcolm? I'm a little confused with where this is going. A Team up with Malcolm is just retread. I had assumed they were setting up everyone on a dark path so Oliver could be the one that grounds. A new hero and all that jazz.

I'm ignoring everything BMD wise for now cause it's all so terrible.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)
While I agree with pretty much everything you've said, I'm simply going on the precedent that if Felicity has an emotional reaction that isn't in line with Oliver, she's viewed as the bad guy. Or she cries too much. Or she's whiny. That's my only issue here. It's like they're setting her up to get hated on and I don't appreciate that.

 

I hear you. There are viewers who are just always going to reflexively "side" with Oliver (or Felicity, or whoever) against anyone who opposes/hurts him, but as long as the show doesn't, I'm less concerned about it. (This is where things got muddy last year, when working with Malcolm ended up being a good call, for example.) And, rather than Felicity standing in opposition to Oliver on multiple fronts last season, this is just one issue, and it doesn't extend to mission stuff (yet).

 

Things could definitely go haywire though! It's just that I don't see this one fact--that someone will sympathize with Oliver's position--as cause for concern.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

I am just giggling that even the biggest LL stan MAtt Mitovich couldnt get any scoop on her.

 

He wrote on Twitter that he didn't even ask about her, but that he's going to when he talks to WM later this week.

Edited by apinknightmare
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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

I'm amused that WM lists the people that Oliver depends on to keep him grounded on the good side-- Felicity, Diggle, and Thea-- and then goes on to talk about how MM might become a surprising influence, and there is no mention of LL at all. Remind me again how she supposedly plays a role in Oliver's life?

Either she's going to have a storyline they're trying to keep super secret, or she's going to spend the rest of the season only showing up for fight scenes and standing in the background with her arms crossed. (I prefer the latter. It's Felicity and Diggle's turn in the spotlight, damnit.)

Edited by lemotomato
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

Either she's going to have a storyline they're trying to keep super secret, or she's going to spend the rest of the season only showing up for fight scenes and standing in the background with her arms crossed. (I prefer the latter. It's Felicity and Diggle's turn in the spotlight, damnit.)

I didn't realize it until I saw a Laurel fan angrily tweet WM about it but, WM had a perfect opportunity to talk about LL when answering the angel/devil question. Instead she talks about everyone else and what they're going through that prevents them from pulling Oliver out of the dark.

I think that, more than anything tells you that LL doesn't have a storyline in 10-15. Felicity is "dead" (wheelchair), Diggle is going down a dark road because of Andy and Thea is dealing with Bloodlust...in steps Malcolm.

Not only that but, it tells you how disconnected Laurel is from Oliver and Oliver's storyline. She's not even included in the list of people who act as Oliver's moral compass (Felicity/Diggle) or as someone who can reach Oliver emotionally (Thea).

Edited by Morrigan2575
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looptab

looptab

I can't decide if that is because it's actually her who does it, and they don't want to rile up shippers ahead of time, or if Oliver pulls himself out of the dark, and the thought of Laurel being the one doing it hasn't even crossed the writers mind - or it did, and they decided against it.

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jay741982

jay741982

Crazily enough, I would actually prefer Malcolm to be the one who tells Oliver he did the right thing keeping his kid a secret. He's morally bankrupt so it would tell me that Oliver is in the wrong, ultimately. But knowing this show, they're gonna have it be someone like Diggle or Donna and Felicity will come out of it looking like the bad guy for being upset.

 

LOL nope. Not letting this go yet.

If Diggle is the one he can Fuck off too

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lemotomato

lemotomato

I can't decide if that is because it's actually her who does it, and they don't want to rile up shippers ahead of time, or if Oliver pulls himself out of the dark, and the thought of Laurel being the one doing it hasn't even crossed the writers mind - or it did, and they decided against it.

If WM hadn't mentioned MM as someone who would be giving Oliver advice on how to deal, I'd be worried that they'd have Laurel do it. Which amazingly, would make even less sense narratively, because even MM knows more about Oliver and what he's been through than LL does.
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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

He said he only had a short time to talk to her but is seeing her again later in the week (is that weird to break an interview up like that?). It looks like he divided up the segments like Oliver/Felicity/Diggle/Mama Smoak and in the next one he will probably talk The Lances.

But It is an odd and rather balant omission that she isn't worked into anything. Everyone is set to go down this dark path and here is Laurel all set and comfortable in this hero life, and yet Oliver turns to Malcolm for an ally? I don't think WM is pulling a fast one and just not talking about it to avoid a SM fandom shipper meltdown. They don't see to have must interest in writing Oliver and Laurel in any way.

I Imagine the response to any Laurel question is that she is going to support the Team and her Dad and maybe they will talk about her Lawyering.

Edited by Chaser
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tangerine95

tangerine95

(edited)

I just think WM doesn't mention Laurel because she has nothing new to say about her.They already kept saying she's BC and a team member in previous interviews and the other thing they teased about her which was finding out and reaction to Lance working with DD was wraped up in 2 scenes.I honestly doubt she's getting a big storyline they're trying to keep under wraps so thats why she doesn't talk about her.Yeah it didn't even occur to her to mention Laurel as someone who can reach Oliver and thats tells me all I need to know about how relevant Laurel or her opinion is to Oliver.

Edited by tangerine95
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Velocity23

Velocity23

(edited)

 

What I will say is we get some definnite answers after being left hanging in the midseason finale. Afraid to say more, cause spoilers #Arrow

 

Diggle has good scenes. Plural. And it's clear how much he cares about Felicity.

https://twitter.com/ChrisHayner/status/689213315126394881

 

First screeners reactions

 

 

 

Just watched this week's midseason premiere of #Arrow. 1 scene in particular will set this fandom on fire + inspire lots of theories. Wowza.

https://twitter.com/SydneyBucksbaum/status/689209097439162369

Edited by Velocity23
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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

Can you guys remind me which episode it is that Felicity is finally getting her own codename? I feel like it's 4x11 but I'm not 100% sure.

and if is it totally sucks! because I need it for the possible cake I am making for my cake lab..

Edited by foreverevolving
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

At least if we get a FF like WM promised (although I thought she said it would later in the season), we'll have a little more to go on than just a grave scene, since we're supposed to find out where everyone was/what they were doing when someone bites it.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

Do you think it will be 410? I know they said somewhere between 10-15 but I wasn't sure if it will be this early. I guess the tweet about new theories is what made you think flash forward.

@apinknightmare - IIRC she said mid-season which they now seem to have quantified as somewhere between 10-15

Edited by Morrigan2575
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

@apinknightmare - IIRC she said mid-season which they now seem to have quantified as somewhere between 10-15

 

She did, but I thought she recently mentioned it being in 4x15 or somewhere around there. I could be making that up, though, but I really thought it was going to be later. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Do you think it will be 410? I know they said somewhere between 10-15 but I wasn't sure if it will be this early. I guess the tweet about new theories is what made you think flash forward.

Yeah. I knew it was going to be between 410-415, but the latest reaction tweets posted in the Spoilers thread have me thinking 410.

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Chaser

Chaser

I figured the new theories would be more Villain related.

 

She keeps saying 4x10 to 4x15, so I didn't get the impression that we would get the next flash-forward so soon. I thought it would lead us into the next sweeps. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I thought the person who talked about theories was referring to the paralysis and the Oracle theory. The fact it has been discarded already might have not reached every corner, yet.

 

 

It's tough to say, since I don't think we can assume that this particular reviewer even knows about Oracle to think people would speculate it would be Felicity. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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She did, but I thought she recently mentioned it being in 4x15 or somewhere around there. I could be making that up, though, but I really thought it was going to be later.

 

Oh, I must have missed that

 

I thought the person who talked about theories was referring to the paralysis and the Oracle theory. The fact it has been discarded already might have not reached every corner, yet.

I tend to ignore these tweets because they're either unspoiled or pretending to be unspoiled.
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lemotomato

lemotomato

One reviewer tweeted that people should watch the episode live or risk getting spoiled for something HUGE, but it's hard to tell if it's really something that we don't already know about when they're still pretending Felicity might be dead. For all we know, Felicity being paralyzed is new news for them because they haven't seen the on set photographs or the Australian promo.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

You're right - it's 4x11.

Grrr!! damn it! the last day of my lab is the Tuesday before that!!!

Wondering if i'll send a sketch of the cake to Stephen, Marc and Wendy if one of them will be willing to tell me the name in advance!! I mean i'm making an Olicity wedding cake Goddammit!!

Any one know any reporters who watch the episodes in advance? cause I need a freakin plan B is the three of them will say no.

 

And yes I know mods this is now unrelated to the spoilers so taking it back to the small talk thread.

Edited by foreverevolving
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kismet

kismet

One reviewer tweeted that people should watch the episode live or risk getting spoiled for something HUGE, but it's hard to tell if it's really something that we don't already know about when they're still pretending Felicity might be dead. For all we know, Felicity being paralyzed is new news for them because they haven't seen the on set photographs or the Australian promo.

Wait there's a chance that Felicity is dead and / or paralyzed???? SUCH A SHOCKER. I'm so glad we have such an EPIC writing team to create such game changing twists!!

 

Honestly, I can't even take these new rounds of tweets seriously for anything... they get paid to promote the show. There is nothing they can say that will remove my current disinterest and overall displeasure at this upcoming set of episodes.

 

I better watch it live just so I can get it over with. At this point the only thing I will be surprised by is if I actually like the episodes.

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Chaser

Chaser

I don't think it's Felicity being paralyzed. (Watch me be wrong.) I think it's probably grave-related, or a big reveal regarding DD and/or his wife.

I agree. I think it would be anti-climatic if it's about Felicity being paralyzed. She got shot multiple times, no one could expect her to come out unscathed. It would only be shocking if all she got was a batman bandaid and a lollipop. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I don't think it's Felicity being paralyzed. (Watch me be wrong.) I think it's probably grave-related, or a big reveal regarding DD and/or his wife.

 

They do seem to have a conversation about what he promised her. Maybe a big part of their plan comes to light? Or maybe this is when they start hatching a plan for her to oppose Oliver. That doesn't seem like a huge spoiler to me, but who knows.

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