Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

at least something made me laugh and stopped the raging set of f-bombs I've been dropping all over the place.  Thanks for that!

Edited January 11, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[GirlvsTV]

I actually think her not being Oracle makes this storyline even worse. I'm now fairly certain they're just stealing this story for Felicity the same way they lifted the Batman storyline for Oliver last year, which means it's probably going to be just as much of a mess.

You can't take a plot for one character and slap it on another and have it be just as effective. As has been mentioned already, Babs losing her physicality was an effective storyline for her character because she was fighter. Taking that away meant an opportunity to reveal new dimensions to her character.

I don't see how putting Felicity in a wheelchair will reveal anything new about her? I mean, even if she ends up being the one to 'solve' her paralysis what does that show us? That she's really smart and is able to come up with amazing solutions to problems? Like that wasn't already obvious - or at least it was until Curtis showed up.

[tarotx]

Does the twist involve Malcolm?

John Barrowman MBE ‏@Team_Barrowman
On set at the moment #Arrow can't send pics:) Top Secret. JB
https://twitter.com/Team_Barrowman/status/686630758379687936

Edited January 11, 2016 by tarotx

[AyChihuahua]

I don't see how putting Felicity in a wheelchair will reveal anything new about her? I mean, even if she ends up being the one to 'solve' her paralysis what does that show us? That she's really smart and is able to come up with amazing solutions to problems? Like that wasn't already obvious - or at least it was until Curtis showed up.

It doesn't reveal anything new about her, because it's not about her. It's about Oliver. Well, Oliver's manpain and guilt, specifically.

 

Maybe MM becomes the rest of the season's big bad? Allies with HIVE? (I thought that for a lot of last season, though.)

[tarotx]

I read some Theories yesterday that it will be the Opposite of Oracle though at the same time, similar. It will lead Felicity to want to protect herself physically and work on her upper body strength and learn weapons. They are hoping we see EBR do the salmon ladder. 

I actually think her not being Oracle makes this storyline even worse. I'm now fairly certain they're just stealing this story for Felicity the same way they lifted the Batman storyline for Oliver last year, which means it's probably going to be just as much of a mess.

You can't take a plot for one character and slap it on another and have it be just as effective. As has been mentioned already, Babs losing her physicality was an effective storyline for her character because she was fighter. Taking that away meant an opportunity to reveal new dimensions to her character.

I don't see how putting Felicity in a wheelchair will reveal anything new about her? I mean, even if she ends up being the one to 'solve' her paralysis what does that show us? That she's really smart and is able to come up with amazing solutions to problems? Like that wasn't already obvious - or at least it was until Curtis showed up.

[thegirlsleuth]

I'm really glad they're not going with Oracle.  I want Felicity to have her own destiny, not a comic book destiny, and I think it would make the debate about her name rather than her story, and that would be for the worst. I still think that a mental disability would have been a bigger blow to her sense of self than a physical one, but at least now the focus is on her.

 

Maybe the thing that has never been done before on Arrow is that Laurel is able to amass enough evidence against Darhk to get him on criminal conspiracy and felony assault charges and sends him to a supermax prison?  They haven't ever had a competent justice system before, so that would certainly be a game changer.

[dtissagirl]

I read some Theories yesterday that it will be the Opposite of Oracle though at the same time, similar. It will lead Felicity to want to protect herself physically and work on her upper body strength and learn weapons. They are hoping we see EBR do the salmon ladder.

While I would love it for Felicity to be able to do all of those things, that's the most superficial thing I've ever heard as the consequences for a disability storyline.

[apinknightmare]

It doesn't reveal anything new about her, because it's not about her. It's about Oliver. Well, Oliver's manpain and guilt, specifically.

 

I actually think that at the end of the day, this storyline is going to ultimately wind up benefiting Curtis the most, provided Palmer Tech stuff helps heal her. I suppose TPTB could've been lying liars who lie when they said that Curtis wasn't going to become Mr. Terrific (in costume) this season, but if they weren't and they want to keep him in the mix, since he was put in charge of coming up with this tech, yeah...I think it's mostly gonna be something for him to do.

 

Will be incredibly pleased to be wrong and find out all kinds of new stuff about Felicity through this, though.

[bijoux]

Oracle is off the table as Felicitys path.

 

Good.

  

Kill off DD and/or have HIVE replace him?

 .

As much as I think NM is really bringing out the best of his role, that could be really cool. And something the show honestly hasn't done before. All three seasons so far he needed to beat the one guy to end the threat. But here the face of the operation could be done away with and instead replaced by legions. Considering it's HIVE, it makes sense.

[statsgirl]

When is a storyline on this show not about the male characters and not the women?  At least we haven't had overkill with Curtis yet.

 

I'm still being optimistic about this storyline because it's going to give Felicity something meaty that's hopefully about her and give EBR a chance to see what she can do.  When you compare it to what they give Laurel (addiction, grave-robbing) and Thea (lost in a story that was really about Malcolm and Ra's), it's not so bad.  And they did kill Sara.

 

Yeah, it wouldn't make sense to have it before a break. They would need to capitalize on it.

I'm hoping they go sooner rather then later. Pacing is a consistent problem for them and I would like them to write themselves some breathing room.

They also like to have big cliff-hangers before a hiatus (Walter kidnapped, Slade showing up for revenge, Oliver falling off the mountain, Felicity shot),  I'm hoping it's going to be 418 rather than 419 because if it's someone I like, I need to be able to prepare myself before the end of the season.

[AyChihuahua]

I actually think that at the end of the day, this storyline is going to ultimately wind up benefiting Curtis the most, provided Palmer Tech stuff helps heal her. I suppose TPTB could've been lying liars who lie when they said that Curtis wasn't going to become Mr. Terrific (in costume) this season, but if they weren't and they want to keep him in the mix, since he was put in charge of coming up with this tech, yeah...I think it's mostly gonna be something for him to do.

 

Will be incredibly pleased to be wrong and find out all kinds of new stuff about Felicity through this, though.

I think the angst will be mostly about Oliver and his reaction to and guilt about her injury, coupled with giving him a Laurel/Quentin-style "excuse" for continuing not to tell her about BM drama, but I agree that the fix will be mostly about Curtis. My only question is, are we sure the actor is on a different show next year and therefore presumably won't be coming back, at least not as a regular/heavy recurring? Because that would make it a little surprising if they put all this work into making him Mr. Terrific Sue, knowing he won't be back after S4.

Maybe the thing that has never been done before on Arrow is that Laurel is able to amass enough evidence against Darhk to get him on criminal conspiracy and felony assault charges and sends him to a supermax prison?  They haven't ever had a competent justice system before, so that would certainly be a game changer.

But, but, no prison can hold him!

 

(Sarcasm aimed at idiot writers who had Oliver let MM off the hook for any consequences whatsoever for murdering 503 people, not at you.)

 

Somebody a few days ago said the paralysis stuff will be 65% Oliver, 35% Felicity. That sounds about right to me. At worst probably 75/25. We'll certainly see some emotional reaction from her, I just don't think that she is at all the point of the storyline.

Edited January 11, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[tangerine95]

I do think this will be about Felicity and they will focus on her reaction.I'm sure it will be used as an excuse for Oliver not telling her but I don't think that will be the main focus.I'm more worried about Curtis being the one to find the cure and save the company on his own but for now I think they'll have them do it together.My problem isn't that I don't think Felicity will be given focus in this storyline,my problem is thinking this storyline isn't right for her and another way to deal with her arc post shooting would have been much better for character development.I'm always worried when they do things because comics and a huge part if the reason this is happening is comics imo.

Edited January 11, 2016 by tangerine95

[AyChihuahua]

I do think this will be about Felicity and they will focus on her reaction.

Can you help me understand why you think that? She's never been the focus of her own arc in the past (for example, her whole arc in S3 was basically which boy she should pick, and we didn't even get to find out which boy she wanted to pick until 3.20, after nearly all the other characters spent episodes telling her who to pick/how she felt).

[statsgirl]

I bet a large part of the story will be an excuse for Oliver "No Kill" Queen to go on a rampage again. The writers must be itching to let him loose by now.

 

I don't mind that most of the story will be about Oliver and Curtis and everyone else.  These writers do best when they only have nuggets to writer for a particular character instead of making it all about her (e.g. minimalist Thea last season as opposed to all the time she got season 1, or Felicity in 4x06 fighting with Oliver).  I just want the part that's about Felicity, no matter how small, to be good.  The problem with her role in season 3 is that it was about Oliver, and Ray, and even Diggle, everyone but her.

[apinknightmare]

I think the angst will be mostly about Oliver and his reaction to and guilt about her injury, coupled with giving him a Laurel/Quentin-style "excuse" for continuing not to tell her about BM drama

 

I initially thought this, but we haven't seen him have any second thoughts about keeping it a secret since. I mean, I thought for sure he was going to start telling her in the last ep, but he never did. At this point I feel like it's a secret he's okay keeping and intends to keep keeping, but I suppose that could change at any point. 

[Chaser]

It's like a water down version of what happened with Sara. They gave her the major plot points, but not the name because she didn't have THE name. Yeah, I think I'm more rage-y now then when I thought they were doing Oracle.

 

The excuse not to tell her about the BM is bad enough, but I also think it's going to make her feel lacking as Oliver's romantic partner. Maybe the issue of children comes up and Felicity says she doesn't know if she can or wants to have children at this point. Oliver uses that as a reason not to tell her.

 

Basically, it sounds like they paralyzed her as a nod to Oracle and to create drama for Olicity.

 

Count me in as someone who thinks that Curtis is going to plan a big part in making her walk again. He can have a part but if this turns into Ray and her arc ends in his hero episode...I honestly don't know if I can watch this show any more.

 

As for the big villain game-changer. I'm wondering if Malcolm takes out DD or DD takes out him.

 

Maybe they capture him and Laurel prosecutes him (4x16). He kills her as his get out of jail free card (he isn't aware of her track record).

[AyChihuahua]

I initially thought this, but we haven't seen him have any second thoughts about keeping it a secret since. I mean, I thought for sure he was going to start telling her in the last ep, but he never did. At this point I feel like it's a secret he's okay keeping and intends to keep keeping, but I suppose that could change at any point. 

It's only been one episode, and 4.09 was really busy. Plus the guilt will be building, the guilt of the lying/secret-keeping and the guilt of her being in a WC. Stuff will happen, she'll tell him how grateful she is to him for being on her team, etc., and he'll start looking more and more torn. It'll probably come up if in fact someone else finds out about it early and he talks to that person about it, and it'll almost definitely come up when she actually finds out and he's trying to talk her out of dumping him ("I couldn't tell you with everything else that happened...I couldn't put more bad news on you!").

[tangerine95]

Can you help me understand why you think that? She's never been the focus of her own arc in the past (for example, her whole arc in S3 was basically which boy she should pick, and we didn't even get to find out which boy she wanted to pick until 3.20, after nearly all the other characters spent episodes telling her who to pick/how she felt).

I guess I'm hoping they do better this time.I mean a paralysis arc is a lot worse to make about a relationship or proping another character.I'm thinking they know if they do this the focus has to be on Felicity since its a really serious storyline they chose to do.And I thought they did a good job with Felicity this season apart from the dumb kid storyline and that was on Oliver imo.I was suprised when 4.06 focused so much on Felicity and her issues and feelings because I was expecting it to be Ray proping like season 3.I'm prepared to be mad at them for screwing up but I'm hoping for the best.Tbh there's not much they can do to make me like this storyline anyway.

[apinknightmare]

It's only been one episode, and 4.09 was really busy. Plus the guilt will be building, the guilt of the lying/secret-keeping and the guilt of her being in a WC. Stuff will happen, she'll tell him how grateful she is to him for being on her team, etc., and he'll start looking more and more torn. It'll probably come up if in fact someone else finds out about it early and he talks to that person about it, and it'll almost definitely come up when she actually finds out and he's trying to talk her out of dumping him ("I couldn't tell you with everything else that happened...I couldn't put more bad news on you!").

 

 

I guess to me, using her injury as an excuse not to tell her would require me to believe that he wanted to tell her in the first place, which he doesn't seem to, since he showed no inclination to do it after her teammate speech, and no inclination to do it before he proposed. If he's torn about telling her after she gets hurt, then the injury would at least be somewhat compelling him to do it when he didn't want to before it happened.

 

But yeah, I suppose he could use it as an excuse for not "burdening" her if someone else finds out about it first. 

[GirlvsTV]

Just the idea of Oliver leaving Felicity in a wheelchair to visit BM after lying to Felicity about where he's going/has been is enough to make me want to throw things.

[AyChihuahua]

I guess I'm hoping they do better this time.I mean a paralysis arc is a lot worse to make about a relationship or proping another character.I'm thinking they know if they do this the focus has to be on Felicity since its a really serious storyline they chose to do.And I thought they did a good job with Felicity this season apart from the dumb kid storyline and that was on Oliver imo.I was suprised when 4.06 focused so much on Felicity and her issues and feelings because I was expecting it to be Ray proping like season 3.I'm prepared to be mad at them for screwing up but I'm hoping for the best.Tbh there's not much they can do to make me like this storyline anyway.

I don't think it's her story propping Oliver, I think it's her story causing Oliver pain and guilt/causing him to go all Hulksmash on DD, and giving him an "excuse." 4.06 was great for her POV, but that was one episode. I agree they've done a good job writing Felicity so far, but as thegirlsleuth pointed out, what does Felicity being in a wheelchair actually reveal about her? We already know that she fights crime mostly sitting down, we already know she's resilient and brave, we already know she can get a bit snappish when she's tired/stressed (I'm sure she'll snap at Oliver for hovering or some such at least once), so what does that leave for this storyline to tell us?

 

To be clear, I think it will be partly about Felicity, but not mostly, meaning not 51% or more. I am guessing more like 30-35% about her, when it should be mostly about her, with a big assist from him because he's the protagonist.

I guess to me, using her injury as an excuse not to tell her would require me to believe that he wanted to tell her in the first place, which he doesn't seem to, since he showed no inclination to do it after her teammate speech, and no inclination to do it before he proposed. If he's torn about telling her after she gets hurt, then the injury would at least be somewhat compelling him to do it when he didn't want to before it happened.

 

But yeah, I suppose he could use it as an excuse for not "burdening" her if someone else finds out about it first. 

For me it works (I don't mean actually works, I mean Guggie et al. think it works) at any point he starts wanting to tell her. I really can't see him remaining 100% comfortable not telling her. At some point he's going to start feeling bad about it...I mean imagine working on wedding plans with your fiancée, whom you have not told you have a son. Plus he's definitely going to be her light for awhile, she's going to express gratitude, and unless the dude really is a sociopath, that has to start pinging his guilt buttons.

Just the idea of Oliver leaving Felicity in a wheelchair to visit BM after lying to Felicity about where he's going/has been is enough to make me want to throw things.

I go really back and forth on that. As apinknightmare and Laura Hurley point out, that would be INCREDIBLY stupid of Oliver (and BM). But, I'm sorry, both Oliver and BM have been shown often to BE incredibly stupid, or at least to do incredibly stupid things, for plot. Oliver and the parachute, and BM leaving her young impressionable son alone with the dude she was just really nasty to five minutes before. For all she knew Oliver would immediately tell the kid he's the dad and/or take him out to impregnate young girls (I think I hate BM more than anyone in the Flarrowverse except Ray...much more, honestly, than LL).

 

And, they don't have to get the BM/Spawn actors back, they only have to refer to him being out of pocket unexpectedly/visiting Central City. I am not at all sure those actors will appear again, or at least not for quite some time, hopefully for two seconds when they're on a plane on their way to ARGUS witness protection FOREVER.

Edited January 11, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

For me it works (I don't mean actually works, I mean Guggie et al. think it works) at any point he starts wanting to tell her. I really can't see him remaining 100% comfortable not telling her. At some point he's going to start feeling bad about it...I mean imagine working on wedding plans with your fiancée, whom you have not told you have a son. Plus he's definitely going to be her light for awhile, she's going to express gratitude, and unless the dude really is a sociopath, that has to start pinging his guilt buttons.

 

 

Yeah, I'm sure he'll feel bad about it. I don't doubt that at all. It's just that the reasoning for keeping the secret seems to be because he feels like he can't go against BM's wishes for whatever stupid reason, and I just don't see that changing just because Felicity's in a wheelchair. He already has a pre-established excuse for keeping the secret, so he wouldn't need another. But I also wouldn't be surprised if this advocate that Oliver's supposed to have brings up everything that's happened to her since as some kind of additional excuse for Oliver not spilling, or if Oliver does as well. 

Edited January 11, 2016 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, I'm sure he'll feel bad about it. I don't doubt that at all. It's just that the reasoning for keeping the secret seems to be because he feels like he can't go against BM's wishes for whatever stupid reason, and I just don't see that changing just because Felicity's in a wheelchair. He already has a pre-established excuse for keeping the secret, so he wouldn't need another. But I also wouldn't be surprised if this advocate that Oliver's supposed to have brings up everything that's happened to her since as some kind of additional excuse for Oliver not spilling, or if Oliver does as well. 

It's so hard to tell where they're going with the story because it's so UNBELIEVABLY illogical. I mean, BM says Oliver can never tell the kid he's his father...that's REALLY messed up, and I can't imagine Oliver expects to or would remain willing to be Uncle Ollie forever. I'm sort of assuming that both BM's and Oliver's actions/reactions were somewhat based on the there and then, and will evolve over time. For example, I would certainly hope that Oliver is planning to show BM he's not that guy and eventually get her permission to tell the kid and at least his own close family and friends (presumably after all the DD/HIVE stuff is over, which if this show didn't think it's audience is stupid is also when court stuff should come in if she's still unwilling to let the kid/Oliver's family know).

 

But if Oliver is just blindly accepting absolutely every single thing BM says, forever, never plans to change the status quo ever, then I guess? I'm thinking he'll have an evolving reaction to it, and it'll be like Laurel...her first reason not to tell Quentin was that she wanted to wait until she could also tell him who killed her, but the continuing reason was his heart issue. So in this case I'm guessing Oliver's first "reason" is BM's batcrap crazy demand, but that as his reaction and planned response to the news evolves, his "excuse" will also evolve, and the continuing reason will be the wheelchair.

 

Again, I'm not really tied to any of this, because using logic/normal human emotional reactions to this storyline probably won't at all indicate where they're going. For me I want them to jettison both of those batcrap crazy/stupid excuses, and go with him being terrified to lose Felicity. At least that is consistent with his fear issues and also kind of loving, in a weird way, whereas choosing BM over Felicity is not loving and cheapens the O/F relationship for me, while using her injury as an excuse makes him look cowardly and moronic, bc obviously if she can run PT and Arrow ops she can hear this news.

Edited January 11, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[calliope1975]

I actually think that at the end of the day, this storyline is going to ultimately wind up benefiting Curtis the most, provided Palmer Tech stuff helps heal her. I suppose TPTB could've been lying liars who lie when they said that Curtis wasn't going to become Mr. Terrific (in costume) this season, but if they weren't and they want to keep him in the mix, since he was put in charge of coming up with this tech, yeah...I think it's mostly gonna be something for him to do.

 

I've always had the feeling that by the end of S4 Curtis will be Mr. Terrific in everything but name. I suspect they'll be fridging his husband at some point, and he'll be part of TA soon after.

 

I bet a large part of the story will be an excuse for Oliver "No Kill" Queen to go on a rampage again. The writers must be itching to let him loose by now.

 

The ONE part of this story I'm fine with. Perhaps the fight work will be better if it's just Oliver kicking ass. 

 

I can't think of one reason that I would accept for Oliver continuing to lie to Felicity about BM. Unless medically they can guarantee Felicity's brain would explode, nothing is reasonable regardless of which character it is that supports his decision. Besides the Olicity drama, Oliver has now been attacked (with guns) at a campaign event. He's been attacked at a campaign rally (with guns) and his new fiancee has been "permanently" wounded. He will now be attacked (I bet it's with guns) at his debate. If BM hasn't already disappeared forever with the kid, she's a bigger idiot than these writers.

[apinknightmare]

But if Oliver is just blindly accepting absolutely every single thing BM says, forever, never plans to change the status quo ever, then I guess? I'm thinking he'll have an evolving reaction to it, and it'll be like Laurel...her first reason not to tell Quentin was that she wanted to wait until she could also tell him who killed her, but the continuing reason was his heart issue. So in this case I'm guessing Oliver's first "reason" is BM's batcrap crazy demand, but that as his reaction and planned response to the news evolves, his "excuse" will also evolve, and the continuing reason will be the wheelchair.

 

To me, the difference is that Laurel was coming up with her own reasoning. She had no ultimatums, she just flat-out didn't want to tell Quentin that Sara died and kept reasoning with herself and others about why she wasn't doing it. From what we can tell, Oliver did want to tell Felicity, but he was given an actual ultimatum by BM, who told him he couldn't. He agreed to this for idiotic plot reasons, so I guess I don't see his reasons needing to evolve or change. He was told he needed to keep the secret, so he's keeping the secret. He might feel guilty about keeping it over time, but he already believes it's a thing he has to do because BM told him so.

[AyChihuahua]

To me, the difference is that Laurel was coming up with her own reasoning. She had no ultimatums, she just flat-out didn't want to tell Quentin that Sara died and kept reasoning with herself and others about why she wasn't doing it. From what we can tell, Oliver did want to tell Felicity, but he was given an actual ultimatum by BM, who told him he couldn't. He agreed to this for idiotic plot reasons, so I guess I don't see his reasons needing to evolve or change. He was told he needed to keep the secret, so he's keeping the secret. He might feel guilty about keeping it over time, but he already believes it's a thing he has to do because BM told him so.

I think his excuse will change/be added to bc his plan re the kid will change. He agreed NEVER TO TELL ANY1 EVAH! right when he first found out and BM just agreed to let him MEET the kid. I cannot imagine that this dude who is legit all about family, especially blood family (see, e.g., Malcolm is Thea's bio-daddy and therefore we have to be nice to him instead of killing the crap out of him), will remain forever okay just being Uncle Ollie. So I think Oliver's excuse for not telling Felicity will evolve because his intention re his future relationship with the kid will evolve. He'll start thinking that at some future point he'll want to have a quasi-normal father/son relationship with the kid, meaning he has to tell the kid. Obviously Oliver will know that once the kid knows the clock is seriously ticking, but just like Laurel, every day he'll tell himself that he can't tell Felicity bc she's already dealing with enough with being paralyzed, and he still has more time bc he's not planning on telling the kid anytime soon anyway.

 

Part of this is because Oliver just sticking with it being better to lie to Felicity than to BM makes zero sense, Guggie heard from multiple professional reviewers that it makes zero sense, it totally cheapens the O/F relationship, and there's not a whole lot of point to the wheelchair storyline as-is, so I'm guessing, in a parallel to S3, this is one of the (very tiny) points of the wheelchair storyline.

Edited January 11, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

If BM hasn't already disappeared forever with the kid, she's a bigger idiot than these writers.

 

Yeah, even if Oliver was stupid enough to go visit the kid with Damien Darhk after him, I can't believe Star City Ledger subscriber and Queen family Google alert haver Samantha would let him within 100 yards of her kid. Then again, she did let a total stranger spend time alone with him the very first time they ever met, so she's already proven herself to be a complete moron.

 

 

I think his excuse will change/be added to bc his plan re the kid will change. He agreed NEVER TO TELL ANY1 EVAH! right when he first found out and BM just agreed to let him MEET the kid. I cannot imagine that this dude who is legit all about family, especially blood family (see, e.g., Malcolm is Thea's bio-daddy and therefore we have to be nice to him instead of killing the crap out of him), will remain forever okay just being Uncle Ollie.

 

Yeah, they very well could change. I find it hard to believe that he'd be okay being Uncle Ollie forever, but I'm not really sure where his head's at. His first instinct was to stay away, then Barry told him he should be involved so he got involved. He argued that the kid should get a chance to know his father, but then he agreed when BM told him he couldn't ever be that, so his pea brain is rattling all around his ginormous head, and I have no idea where it'll end up. 

[kismet]

That has me curious if what DD took from the Pit is what he still uses to heal himself and stay youthful or is it the mumbo jumbo and symbols on his body that does it? Also, I'm very interested to learn the purpose of the corn, cause after the promo showing his wife she didn't look that healthy, so why hasn't he slipped her some Lazarus Pit juice or chanted some magical words over her? What is the overall healing powers or usefulness of the corn? So many unanswered questions dealing with Damien Darhk and now the story line of Felicity's paralysis and I wonder if he has something that could help her.

Can we talk about the irony of Corn being something that is healthy/bad & saves/ends the world? I can't tell you for how long & how much I have to read about the dangers of High Fructose Corn Syrup and here DD is just using it for his own nefarious purposes. I know Corn can be used for good & alternative energy... but still I feel someone in the writers room is having a little fun with their produce choices.

 

I think the mumbo jumbo on his hands is how he is getting his power/long life. I think it will be related to how he is defeated and I think it will connect back to OQ's tattoo. Perhaps the LP water is in the ink? I also think whatever incantations he says is also important.

 

Also, a mighty Thank You to CloudFront for keeping me from being able to comment &/or like the last few pages on the whole FS/wc/Paralysis. I'm glad I was only able to review those - all those warning signs about security certificates really helped me refocus & stop my inner raging from erupting all over these threads.

[kismet]

About time. The only time we saw her doing anything day job related this season was walking with the DA when she was killed, right? This is the one distinctive thing Laurel brings to both the team and the show, and they should utilize it.

Maybe she'll get shot in court and that will be her tragic & heroic death. If she dies as BC, no one is going to remember or honor her because people behind the mask are anonymous. But if she dies as ADA, her legacy can live forever in SC in the hearts & minds of the people who live there. I wouldn't be surprised if they named a building after her.

[kismet]

Duplicate post. SORRY :(

Edited January 11, 2016 by kismet

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, they very well could change. I find it hard to believe that he'd be okay being Uncle Ollie forever, but I'm not really sure where his head's at. His first instinct was to stay away, then Barry told him he should be involved so he got involved. He argued that the kid should get a chance to know his father, but then he agreed when BM told him he couldn't ever be that, so his pea brain is rattling all around his ginormous head, and I have no idea where it'll end up. 

Hee! He really is so dumb so often. It was great seeing him not be dumb for awhile in S4, though. Ah, those halcyon days.  

 

I do hope, though, that he doesn't stick with the "BM told me to lie to Felicity so I did" because it is SO VERY DUMB and also bc it really makes it seem like he is prioritizing BM, who IMO is a nasty lying sack o' crap, over Felicity, who's awesome and who's specifically been awesome to Oliver on scores of occasions. For me it's the very worst "excuse" of the three obvious possibilities: (1) BM told me to; (2) Felicity's paralyzed and couldn't handle it; and (3) I just love Felicity SO MUCH I'm terrified to lose her. Believe me, I LOATHE all three, but the last at least makes him redeemable for me, so I hope he moves on from (1), I expect (2), but I'd prefer (3).

[Belinea]

I am so happy for MG that he finally gets to use one of his favorite words again:

"We’re going to do something that’s never been done before on Arrow with the Big Bad. [Episode] 15 is a real game-changer episode for us.” Source: http://www.hypable.com/arrow-felicity-oracle-damien-darhk/

Next time he will also use 'epic' so that 'game-changer'wont be lonely.

I am just wondering why they are openly coming out to say Felicity won't be Oracle. I mean couldn't they let the story tell itself?

Edited January 11, 2016 by Belinea

[kismet]

Posting here since this discusses spoilers - Laura Hurley expresses her thoughts on Felicity being in a wheelchair and shares something very personal (which is a brave thing to do on social media)...

 

anonymous asks:

hi Laura. i see from you asks that you're somewhat spoiled for whats coming for FS in 4B, so I wanted to know your thoughts on Arrow using FS as a rep for handicapped ppl after she's in a wheelcchair.

Jan 10, 2016 3:16 pm

http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/137035788646/hi-laura-i-see-from-you-asks-that-youre-somewhat

Can Laura Hurley please come out of hiding on this website? Because I want to hug her and then grab a coffee/drink/meal/whatever so that we can discuss life and ARROW.... I just find that she so eloquently points out so many of the same points I have on the show. Seriously, it's like she reads my mind & harvested thoughts right from it.

 

It's not that I dread a paralyzed story, because I do feel that it is underrepresented on TV. I just dread what ARROW will do with the story. Somebody mentioned Trust earlier, I do not have ANY trust that the writers will handle this story with any sensitivity. It will all be used as a gimmick. And it will be insulting and reflect back poorly on people who deal with disabilities on a daily basis. I know it's just a TV show. But TV shows have power and it's a shame when people misuse or underestimate the power they have.

[TVHappy9463]

First, I love all of you so much, this thread is absolutely the best. I laughed so hard reading the posts about MG's interview "game changer" quotes. I Googled 'hard six" gambling term, which sounds like a long shot move, and also a line Adama said in BSG, which makes it sound like a "sometimes you just gotta say WTF"

SO is he admitting they are just saying WTF, we have blown it, so lets just go crazier. 

 

SO are we going to have Damien turn to team Arrow as an ally against a bigger bad, like Spike in Buffy S2. Is this a Lady Macbeth thing where it's Mrs D who is pulling the strings? 

 

Do you think Felicity's mother is in the grave?  

[kismet]

If I knew how to make Gifs I would make one that has the word "EPIC 2012-2016" on it & another that has "Game-Changer 2012-2016" and then send them to MG along with a thesaurus and a dictionary.

[Menrva]

They are NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER killing off LL. Ever. I'd be delighted to be wrong, but if she gets killed off, I'll eat my hat. And I'll make a video and post it on YouTube.

 

I've given up trying to come up with explanations for why anyone does anything on this show anymore. Other than the plot demands it, nothing makes sense. 

[dtissagirl]

SO are we going to have Damien turn to team Arrow as an ally against a bigger bad, like Spike in Buffy S2. Is this a Lady Macbeth thing where it's Mrs D who is pulling the strings? 

That would be kind of neat.

[Morrigan2575]

First, I love all of you so much, this thread is absolutely the best. I laughed so hard reading the posts about MG's interview "game changer" quotes. I Googled 'hard six" gambling term, which sounds like a long shot move, and also a line Adama said in BSG, which makes it sound like a "sometimes you just gotta say WTF"

SO is he admitting they are just saying WTF, we have blown it, so lets just go crazier.

SO are we going to have Damien turn to team Arrow as an ally against a bigger bad, like Spike in Buffy S2. Is this a Lady Macbeth thing where it's Mrs D who is pulling the strings?

Do you think Felicity's mother is in the grave?

A Hard 6 comes from Dice/Craps it's a 3x3 on each die with high payout because it's not an easy roll. Plus, IIRC the hard numbers are a single roll bet. As far as I can tell, he's using the term to mean Take a Risk.

[apinknightmare]

SO are we going to have Damien turn to team Arrow as an ally against a bigger bad, like Spike in Buffy S2. Is this a Lady Macbeth thing where it's Mrs D who is pulling the strings?

Could be Shadowspire, I guess. Since Oliver knows Reiter and they have magic, too. Maybe the HIVE people get sick of Damien's shit after their tour of the corn palace and they turn toward another evil mastermind to help make an apocalypse a reality. Edited January 11, 2016 by apinknightmare

[jay741982]

First, I love all of you so much, this thread is absolutely the best. I laughed so hard reading the posts about MG's interview "game changer" quotes. I Googled 'hard six" gambling term, which sounds like a long shot move, and also a line Adama said in BSG, which makes it sound like a "sometimes you just gotta say WTF"

SO is he admitting they are just saying WTF, we have blown it, so lets just go crazier. 

 

SO are we going to have Damien turn to team Arrow as an ally against a bigger bad, like Spike in Buffy S2. Is this a Lady Macbeth thing where it's Mrs D who is pulling the strings? 

 

Do you think Felicity's mother is in the grave?

I definitely think we might find out Damiens wife is pulling the strings. She might be the Wilson SA was talking about. I do think Donna might be the one in the grave.

[BkWurm1]

I actually think her not being Oracle makes this storyline even worse. I'm now fairly certain they're just stealing this story for Felicity the same way they lifted the Batman storyline for Oliver last year, which means it's probably going to be just as much of a mess.

 

I'm of the opposite mind.  Sure, I would VERY happily skip this whole storyline but by it not coming with the official label of Oracle, it fills me with certainty that this "permanent" injury really will only be permanent until they find their magic wand to undo it.  If she got the name Oracle along with the paralysis storyline I was ready to believe that it would never be undone.  Now I'm back to being more zen.  It's still going to go on waaay too long but knowing the show runners won't be burdened with living up to the name Oracle, is a HUGE relief. HUGE!!!!

 

I do think Donna might be the one in the grave.

Has there been some new spoiler that I've missed?  Why the sudden surge of Donna is dead talk? 

Edited January 11, 2016 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

Donna in the grave would be too cruel to Felicity, to lose her only decent relative on top of paralysis and finding out about BM.  (I know that the secret will come out because that's food and drink for these EPs but I hope at least that Oliver isn't visiting William when he has more than enough things to handle in Starling City (DD, mayoralty race, Felicity's problems and being the Green Arrow.)

 

Hopefully they realize that Donna brings a lightness to a very dour show, as Felicity did, and don't fridge her.

 

We've already had Oliver teaming up with a Big Bad to defeat a Bigger Bad.  If only I could forget last season when Oliver told Felicity that he was joining with Malcolm to fight Ra's; no discussion, end of issue.  I still haven't forgiven him for it.

Edited January 11, 2016 by statsgirl

[jay741982]

I've just read three possible code names for the amazing Ms Smoak: Auxiliary, Algorithm and Asset.

[way2interested]

 

SO are we going to have Damien turn to team Arrow as an ally against a bigger bad, like Spike in Buffy S2. Is this a Lady Macbeth thing where it's Mrs D who is pulling the strings?

 

Could be Shadowspire, I guess. Since Oliver knows Reiter and they have magic, too. Maybe the HIVE people get sick of Damien's shit after their tour of the corn palace and they turn toward another evil mastermind to help make an apocalypse a reality.

 

It's what I immediately thought when hearing MG's comments, that something detrimental is actually going to happen to Darhk and he'll actually need Team Arrow for something, probably fighting bigger bad, whatever that might be. I think it's going to be more of he needs them rather than vice versa with Oliver. It seems like Darhk is going to be in a desperate situation as the episodes go on. I mean, he can't get rid of Team Arrow and Oliver (it looks like) is still running for mayor after he had his friends kidnapped and almost killed and after he almost killed Oliver and Felicity. Now, it looks like he's needs his own wife to take down Oliver in the polls since physically attacking Oliver hasn't even worked. Even if it's her idea, that plan seem somewhat complex and desperate compared to outright just killing him.

 

HIVE's plans might involve a crunched timeline, and without getting rid of their obstacles in Star City, HIVE and Darhk might not get what they want. Maybe Darhk needs HIVE more than they actually need him? Maybe they have something over him? Maybe he has his own agenda that he needs to happen regardless of HIVE? I don't know, I just hope we get some explanation for the evil plans and the hidden family pretty soon.

[calliope1975]

We've already had Oliver teaming up with a Big Bad to defeat a Bigger Bad.  

 

What haven't they done with the Big Bad before? Malcolm was a family friend/sister daddy. Slade was a former friend turned Mirakuru crazy. Ra's was a boring letdown, I mean centuries old formidable opponent. DD's already shown to use magic. What could the never been done before be?

[Morrigan2575]

Female Big Bad? Have another Big Bad kill of the Big Bad? (Malcolm kill off Darhk). Have the Big Bad die and come back to life?

Edited January 11, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

The big bad's never gone to Team Arrow for help with an even bigger bad. That would technically still fall under team up, even though the circumstances are different. Even though I'm not sure that I think the writers or EPs would consider what Oliver did teaming up with a big bad, since they don't really seem to consider Malcolm as one.

[AyChihuahua]

What haven't they done with the Big Bad before? Malcolm was a family friend/sister daddy. Slade was a former friend turned Mirakuru crazy. Ra's was a boring letdown, I mean centuries old formidable opponent. DD's already shown to use magic. What could the never been done before be?

It's tough to get a bigger bad than a dude who thinks the only problem with the Holocaust is that it didn't go far enough.

 

I don't think TA will ally with DD, both bc they literally did that last season and because that's old Oliver, who, other than the Baby Mama lying, is all about not living in the dark anymore. I think DD is going to be offed either by TA or by HIVE, with either HIVE or Malcolm taking over. They've never had the big bad defeated prior to the 23rd episode of the season before. I like Neal McDonough as much as anyone, but it could be a cool twist, and we already know he's not the big boss of HIVE.

[statsgirl]

If Mrs. DD is worse than DD, then she's really scary.  Maybe DD dies and she takes over.

 

 Even though I'm not sure that I think the writers or EPs would consider what Oliver did teaming up with a big bad, since they don't really seem to consider Malcolm as one.

That's their MM blindspot.  The guy had gone from blowing up the Queen's Gambit to killing over 500 people to drugging his daughter to kill Sara to putting Oliver in Ra's sights and sending him off to get killed.  No one other than these EPs would not consider Malcolm to be a bad guy.

[apinknightmare]

That's their MM blindspot.  The guy had gone from blowing up the Queen's Gambit to killing over 500 people to drugging his daughter to kill Sara to putting Oliver in Ra's sights and sending him off to get killed.  No one other than these EPs would not consider Malcolm to be a bad guy.

 

Yes, but one of those EPs is the person saying they've never done this particular thing before. If it's teaming up with a big bad, he would most likely consider that uncharted territory. Not that I necessarily think that's what it is. Could very well be DD being killed off and someone else taking the reins for the rest of the season.