Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

Didnt Geoff Johns create the character of Wendy/Proxy?

Double Checked and, yes he did at least for comics.

IIRC there's a very old article, circa S2, where one of the EPs mentioned that Geoff Johns came up with a whole backstory for Felicity. Maybe he intended her to become Proxy from the beginning? Right now, it seems like they're going for an Oracle/Proxy Mashup.

Felicity went to MIT, Calculator is (probably) her father = Proxy

Felicity gets shot by bad guy which put her in a wheelchair = Oracle.

To be honest, I'd prefer Proxy to Oracle, pity it doesn't have an "A" in it.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[chaos is welcome]

Wasn't proxy in a wheel chair too though? Shame about that a spoiler.

Bringing this over from bitterness:

I liked the list too. But where is it? When Oliver left the island he wasn't interested in fighting crime, he was interested in taking down that list. Really detemined to do it.

Ever since S1 island Oliver the list wasn't mentioned once and i strongly doubt he actually still has it on the island. So my theory is that the list will make a come back in the main story and the island flashbacks. Cuz i doubt Oliver kept it in his pocket the whole time and he probably needs to find it somewhere again on the island.

I wonder if, after poppy/boobs dies, Oliver finds the list again in the cave. I still am waiting for rally dark Oliver. I think part of the reason this year sucks so bad in flashback is because we all expected him to be more ruthless/closer to S1 Oliver. Sigh. Edited January 9, 2016 by chaos is welcome

[SleepDeprived]

Did some searching and, apparently, on Batgirl v.3 #11, Babs/Oracle gets captured by the Calculator and he does something to her that makes her hallucinate that she has full use of her legs, she's sleeping with Dick Grayson, and has a perfect life with the BatFamily. I think, it was pretty much kinda Oracle's version of Superman's "For the Man Who Has Everything," where the hallucination is everything they've ever wanted but, in the end, they come back to reality and find that it's been ripped away from them. Great dramatic story but a bit depressing, too. *sigh* Anyway, eventually, with the help of Wendy/Proxy, Stephanie Brown/Batgirl rescues Oracle from Calculator.

 

If the hallucination happens in the episode with Calculator in it and Felicity is a hybrid of Oracle/Proxy, maybe she ends up saving herself from Calculator/her Dad.

 

I really hope the 4x11 SFX scene is Felicity figuring out the magic tech that will help make her walk again, instead of it being the hallucination. I really want Felicity to be the one to come up with the tech instead of Curtis.

[chaos is welcome]

That's really interesting that oracle and proxy come together in that story. Thank you for that info!

[looptab]

I second the question if it is Felicity having hallucinations or someone else hallucinates about her. I guess Guggenheim worded it ambiguously on purpose, still trying to sell the 'Will she survive? Will she die?'

Anyway my first thought was her having an out-of-body experience, but I'm fine with the other options you guys mentioned.

And if that canadagraph truly gets spoilers from the set, I will be really really bitter.

[Morrigan2575]

Y2john said it's Felicity having hallucinations.

[EmeraldArcher]

I've probably read way too many fan fics, but my first thought was that she "dies" on the table in 410 and Tommy gives her a pep talk.  A lot of fan fics have them being secret best friends, but in-show I just thought it would be cool to see Angel!Tommy telling Felicity to fight her way back to Oliver.

[Lady Calypso]

Honestly, I wouldn't be mad if Curtis figured out the technology for Felicity. I mean, I want them both to be working on it together and I wouldn't be thrilled, but I like Curtis. He's capable of figuring it out himself and yes, it would be cooler for Felicity to figure it out, but if it's Curtis to have the 'aha!' moment, then I won't complain. 

 

You know, this season I am totally on Felicity's side. Last season, I was on Oliver's more so because logically, he had good reasons for doing what he did and it was Diggle, Felicity and the others who were quite out of character when they got mad at him for joining the League to save his sister and then getting mad when he had to not tell them and he only told Malcolm, the only one there that knew almost everything about the League and how to take them down. Even though Oliver actually tried to tell Diggle about the plan before the guards shooed Diggle back to the prison....but anyway, this season I am all on Felicity's side because she'll be going through a lot and I swear, if Diggle is the one to tell Oliver that it's ok to keep the kid thing a secret, I will be pissed. I just think at this point, they're making characters do more out of character things just for the sake of plot. I do think Oliver, at this point in his life, would have already told Felicity because he loves her and knows how she hates lying. He may not be completely reformed, but I do think that it's more in character for him to be honest with at least her.

 

So, I blame Guggie and the stupid writers for going down this mess. Actually, mostly just Guggie, because the writers blatantly keep the storyline out of the episodes until they're forced to acknowledge it. 

Edited January 9, 2016 by Lady Calypso

[Belinea]

Y2john said it's Felicity having hallucinations.

Are the posts still online somewhere?

Edited January 9, 2016 by Belinea

[Morrigan2575]

Are the posts still online somewhere?

It's on IMDb and was copied over to reddit and there's a link somewhere in this thread to his IMDb post

[Belinea]

It's on IMDb and was copied over to reddit and there's a link somewhere in this thread to his IMDb post

Thanks :-)

So just read them and if the Canadagraphs guy is correct then her codename really should be oracle. I mean he wasn't incorrect when it comes to spoilers.

Just wondering what she will be hallucinating... Still being able to walk? Dying?

Edited January 9, 2016 by Belinea

[tv echo]

Count me in with those who don't like the paralysis storyline and hope it's temporary.

[Morrigan2575]

I just posted the link and quotes to y2john (AKA Canadagraphs) imdb post in the Spoiler only thread

Thanks :-)

So just read them and if the Canadagraphs guy is correct then her codename really should be oracle. I mean he wasn't incorrect when it comes to spoilers.

Just wondering what she will be hallucinating... Still being able to walk? Dying?

I'm hoping that Felicity does something in 411 (The SFX scene) to try and get walking again. Some crazy sci-fi/comicy/technowizzardy that has side-effects causing the hallucinations. I'm hoping (against hope) that whatever she does (nanites?) Seems like a failure but is in fact slowly working.

I really don't want this story dragged out for 8 episodes only to be resolved by Gary Stu Holt saving both Felicity and PT in one swift move because he's just so darn terrific.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

I'm hoping that Felicity does something in 411 (The SFX scene) to try and get walking again. Some crazy sci-fi/comicy/technowizzardy that has side-effects causing the hallucinations. I'm hoping (against hope) that whatever she does (nanites?) Seems like a failure but is in fact slowly working.

 

I was wondering what the hallucinations would be/what they would be caused by, but this makes sense!

[Chaser]

The "poor man's professor x" comment is interesting. It could be because he is bitter bitter bitter or it may be something related to the hallucinations.

 

A side effect of the corn-gas or whatever she may be doing in 4x11. They wouldn't give her powers right? 'Cause that's stupid.

[Sakura12]

I'm one that sees the hero name as more of a title. If Felicity started calling herself Barbara Gordon than that would be an issue. The word Oracle existed well before comics. She can go with The Oracle like the Matrix or because colors seem to make such a big difference to people they can just call Felicity, {insert color} Oracle and be a completely different character. 

[Belinea]

Don't most people, especially the comic book fans, associate someone else with Oracle? Couldn't they give her something unique?

I agree with Morrigan2527 that I don't want her to stay in the wheelchair the whole rest of the season. But I am intrigued by that thought of something slowly working. I mean if they can timetravel, shrink someone and bring someone back from the dead, getting someone to walk again should be in the cards, right?

[looptab]

I can't remember, what is it that makes you think that guy on Imdb is Canadagraph?

 

I honestly don't care that much about the codename, as long as it is not stupid and does relate to Felicity and her story.

The professor X comment seems to be his bitterness showing.

[EmeraldArcher]

The "poor man's professor x" comment is interesting. It could be because he is bitter bitter bitter or it may be something related to the hallucinations.

 

A side effect of the corn-gas or whatever she may be doing in 4x11. They wouldn't give her powers right? 'Cause that's stupid.

I'm intrigued by the "poor man's professor x" comment, too. It would be interesting if her "hallucinations" are actually some sort of new power or prescience that enables her to telepathically spy on DD and H.I.V.E.--that could be an interesting take on "Oracle."  I'm not familiar with the comic history of Oracle, so I don't know whether Barbara Gordon was precognitive or not.  The "corn-gas" suggestion is kind of funny, though, given the mythos of Oracle.

[Belinea]

I can't remember, what is it that makes you think that guy on Imdb is Canadagraph?

I honestly don't care that much about the codename, as long as it is not stupid and does relate to Felicity and her story.

The professor X comment seems to be his bitterness showing.

You can look up users and their posts on IMDb. And he complains a lot about the fact that EBR won't sign stuff for him and that he talked (with video link) about the proposal.

[Chaser]

I'm one that sees the hero name as more of a title. If Felicity started calling herself Barbara Gordon than that would be an issue. The word Oracle existed well before comics. She can go with The Oracle like the Matrix or because colors seem to make such a big difference to people they can just call Felicity, {insert color} Oracle and be a completely different character.

On the surface, I don't mind the name Oracle becuase of the reasons you stated. My problem comes from putting her in a wheelchair and then giving her the name. That doesn't feel right to me.

That and I just don't want to hear about it from some very vocal "comic" fans.

[apinknightmare]

Poor man's Professor X sounds like an a-hole comment without much meaning behind it IMO, but that's just me.

[Morrigan2575]

Poor man's Professor X sounds like an a-hole comment without much meaning behind it IMO, but that's just me.

The guy is a dick, no question.

He wasn't like this back in 2013 when I first interacted with him. He actually gave me some gossip and stuff from set.

Not sure what happened, maybe he got an ego from all the people sucking up to him?

Edited January 9, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[wonderwall]

I don't believe for a second that anyone in the crew would badmouth any character on the show so publicly lmao 

[Chaser]

Poor man's Professor X sounds like an a-hole comment without much meaning behind it IMO, but that's just me.

I'm inclined to agree. But in the sprit of embracing the ridiculous and off the wall speculation: we are supposed to get another grave hint, what if it ties into the hallucinations?

 

Something happens to Felicity to save her life (maybe Oliver finds something in DD house that is tinged with magic and it reacts to the corn-gas or tech) and it throws Felicity into one big hallucination. Maybe she sees the grave site or (even better) she sees each person in a life or death situation (maybe situations we see later on) and then it flashes to Oliver at the grave. 

 

That is how she gets the name Oracle and the Team has the knowledge that someone will die. 

 

Ta-Da! My craziest spec ever.

[Belinea]

I don't believe for a second that anyone in the crew would badmouth any character on the show so publicly lmao

Well, I certainly think that they don't all agree on what is a good storyline but I don't know why they'd tell him.

[apinknightmare]

I don't believe for a second that anyone in the crew would badmouth any character on the show so publicly lmao 

 

They didn't do it publicly though, so I totally believe someone on the show could've said this about her, haha. Canadagraphs definitely has some connection on the show - someone who clearly either isn't worried about CG spilling his/her info, or just doesn't care that much about his/her job. 

[Belinea]

I think he gave out more tidbits in the past. I could be wrong though. But I remember he 'spoiled' the kiss in 2x23 because they left script lying around.

[apinknightmare]

But I remember he 'spoiled' the kiss in 2x23 because they left script lying around.

 

Is that how he knew about it? I figured he got friendly with someone on the crew or something who told him what was going on.

[Morrigan2575]

Yes, Canadagraphs spoiled the kiss in 223. I don't know how he knew about it, since it was a closed set. I just remember him complaining about it.

[wonderwall]

They didn't do it publicly though, so I totally believe someone on the show could've said this about her, haha. Canadagraphs definitely has some connection on the show - someone who clearly either isn't worried about CG spilling his/her info, or just doesn't care that much about his/her job. 

 

Why do they let this guy near the show when it's shooting, I'll never know... But I don't believe that someone on the show would diss what's actually going on in the show to him or whatever. Then again, I can see him actually finding someone who hates Felicity/EBR as much as he does and be friendly with them lol How sad

[Belinea]

I think that he implied that because I remember thinking whether or not the crew was always so careless. But I still assume that he knows some crew members as well.

[apinknightmare]

Why do they let this guy near the show when it's shooting, I'll never know... But I don't believe that someone on the show would diss what's actually going on in the show to him or whatever. 

 

Oh, I do. There are disgruntled employees everywhere, haha. But this dude is so bitter about Felicity that I also believe that he would present his own opinion as a crew member's, so who knows.

[wonderwall]

Oh, I do. There are disgruntled employees everywhere, haha. But this dude is so bitter about Felicity that I also believe that he would present his own opinion as a crew member's, so who knows.

 

lmao maybe he just heard 1 person saying that and just worded it to seem like a lot of the crew feel that way. Then again, I really don't care what the crew think... because it's most likely a low level crew member who makes zero creative decisions about the show...

[Chaser]

The only thing ever read about from him is about Felicity. Laurel and KC is his favorite. Why doesn't he focus on her?

[Belinea]

Who knows. Here is a Link to the rest of his posts http://www.imdb.com/user/ur0859363/

So, does Felicity's dad show up randomly or will he actually help her in the end? Since the theme is supposed to be family this year I am really curious to see how that one will be portrayed.

Also I'd really like to see a resolution to Andy Diggle. Strangely enough I don't really care for that story but as long as Diggle gets a story I am ok with it.

[jay741982]

Lol I joked that Felicity might become the shows first meta. That would be cool if she developed a ability to see into the future

[Ann Mack]

I think a good twist (this is solely speculation purposes ONLY and based on nothing I've picked up from any scene yet) would be Andy being the murdering culprit who puts someone from GTA in the grave (I'm going with Laurel). Oliver is referring to Andy as the one he has to kill! Oliver might feel its his responsibility since he was the one who was so insistent about getting Andy out of Damien Darhk's influence. I think a lot of Andy's use or purpose will be apparent after his episode with Diggle and one or both of their buddy from the past reveals more about Andy to the audience.

 

Of course have to consider how this again would impact Oliver and Diggle's relationship. Haven't worked out ALL the kinks (yes, I know there are a lot) of this scenario happening but hey.....right now I think anything is a viable option for getting to an end resolution of how someone Oliver would shed a tear for is in that grave. I mean it might happen while Andy's trying to hurt someone else and Laurel makes the ultimate sacrifice or he could just be attempting to escape and Laurel is the only thing standing between him remaining in that cage and freedom.

 

Okay that's it for now, I need to think on this a bit more lol!

Edited January 9, 2016 by Ann Mack

[Belinea]

If it turns out that Andy kills Diggle, I will be so so upset. I still don't think they'd get rid of LL. She is BC and they like her that way.

[wonderwall]

If it turns out that Andy kills Diggle, I will be so so upset. I still don't think they'd get rid of LL. She is BC and they like her that way.

...Do they really like her though? I've always been under the impression that the EPs/writers (except for maybe Keto) aren't fans of LL and have only kept her around because of the comics/maybe contractual obligations. I've never really seen any of them rave about her... Yeah I was always under the impression that they just don't care about her. 

[Nagevs]

Laurel and KC is his favorite. Why doesn't he focus on her?

 

This. Does he not know how social media works? He should be talking about how great the character/actor is if he likes her so much.

[Velocity23]

 

.Do they really like her though? I've always been under the impression that the EPs/writers (except for maybe Keto) aren't fans of LL and have only kept her around because of the comics/maybe contractual obligations. I've never really seen any of them rave about her... Yeah I was always under the impression that they just don't care about her.

Forthe longest time Andrew Kreisberg was one of the biggest supporter of LL. Which mostly has to do with him being a big Black Canary fan. But towards the end of s3 that support became less and less.

[Morrigan2575]

Forthe longest time Andrew Kreisberg was one of the biggest supporter of LL. Which mostly has to do with him being a big Black Canary fan. But towards the end of s3 that support became less and less.

People keep saying this but, I have no idea what it's based on. Has he actually said Black Canary is one of his favorite characters?

[lemotomato]

Speculation based on AK writing the GA/BC comic series, an interview where he compared the O/L relationship to Lois and Superman, and at least one instance of him wearing a BC t-shirt. I don't know if he's actually said she was his "favorite", but he certainly has a history with the character.

Edited January 9, 2016 by lemotomato

[wonderwall]

I think that just means that BC from the comics is his favorite or one of his favorites... LL from the show, from what I've heard, isn't like BC from the comics at all.

[AyChihuahua]

Laura Hurley answered my ask re what purpose other than O/F split the Baby Mama lies serve. She thinks they'll split, too, but as devil's advocate speculates either that one/both were introduced to die, or that daddyOliver scenes will happen later. If the former, they REALLY failed in making the audience give a crap about either character dying, plus I can't imagine Oliver not considering either of their deaths to be his fault. If the latter, I really hope not. We have certainly not seen any indication that either is returning, and for me, that would just suck. Kids do not belong on shows like this, baby Sara (and her lovely sensible near-invisibility notwithstanding).

[BkWurm1]

I really don't want this story dragged out for 8 episodes only to be resolved by Gary Stu Holt saving both Felicity and PT in one swift move because he's just so darn terrific.

It hasn't even happened yet and I am already more than ready for Felicity in the wheelchair to be over.  I can already tell this storyline is going to wreck me.  I don't care who fixes it; just fix it damn it!!

[Morrigan2575]

Deleted, wrong thread

Edited January 10, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

MG's comment on something in an upcoming episode being just Felicity's hallucination, I can't help feel he's concerned that something in one will be spoiled and get the fandom all worked up (in a good way or bad way?) and this is his way of preemptively calming everyone down for either doing something awful or taking away something wonderful.  I tend to think he's taking away something wonderful.  He likes handing out the awful too much to give us a warning. 

[apinknightmare]

Fingers crossed they aren't taking a cue from Grey's Anatomy about hallucinations - if so, we're in for some crazy weird shit.

I figured these hallucinations would be about her or someone else, not entire scenarios. Entire scenarios would be the most laughable, so...that's probably what it is.