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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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(edited)

If they keep the schedule, then 415 is the last episode of sweeps. Maybe Felicity will get up from the wheelchair AND LITERALLY WALK OUT ON OLIVER for being a lying liar who lies. Arrow, please do this because I wanna LOL.

Sweeps is 2/4 - 3/2 so yes 412-415 should be the February Sweeps episodes. She could also walk again in 414 or 415...they still have 4 days remaining for 414 filming.

But yeah, I suspect it will happen during sweeps.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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I think its different because these things would be happening directly to her and be her storyline instead of a reaction to Oliver and Sara dying,Oliver joing the LoA.Those weren't about her the way paralysis,her dad and Oliver's lie will all be.I agree with @ morrigan2575 that the only thing that was really thrown just at her last season was Oliver pushing her away after their date.

It all just seems like a lot of stuff and a lot of time would be needed for that and I don't think arrow writers usually give characters like 3 big storylines one after the other in the span of 8 episodes.Not saying it won't happen for sure,they've done worse stuff than puting Felicity in a wheelchair for awhile.I for sure don't want it but I am aware it could happen.

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Maybe it depends on which episode is the flashback one. So that these idiots can contrast Oliver sleeping with Poppy with Felicity breaking up with him.

Mm yes you had to put that one out there.

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I think its different because these things would be happening directly to her and be her storyline instead of a reaction to Oliver and Sara dying,Oliver joing the LoA.Those weren't about her the way paralysis,her dad and Oliver's lie will all be.I agree with @ morrigan2575 that the only thing that was really thrown just at her last season was Oliver pushing her away after their date.

It all just seems like a lot of stuff and a lot of time would be needed for that and I don't think arrow writers usually give characters like 3 big storylines one after the other in the span of 8 episodes.Not saying it won't happen for sure,they've done worse stuff than puting Felicity in a wheelchair for awhile.I for sure don't want it but I am aware it could happen.

They don't really have to be her storylines, though. The dad thing should/probably will be hers, so that's two episodes. 4.10 is going to be mostly Oliver's reaction to her being hurt. Her being in a wheelchair does not have to be her storyline, in fact it probably won't be, at least not entirely. It's going to be a lot of Oliver's guilt re her being hurt, reaction to her being in a wheelchair, and guilt/reasons for not telling her about the spawn. The lying is mostly Oliver's storyline. Her part in that mess is her reaction to it. Her dumping him will be his storyline, his reaction to being dumped, and presumably learning from it.

 

So other than her dad/her dad as her nemesis, a lot of the stuff that happens to her does not have to be about her, which fits perfectly with how her storylines have been handled on the show. Look at her sleeping with/dating Ray...that should have been her storyline, but it wasn't...it was Ray's ascent to ATOM and Oliver's reaction to her dating. Oliver preemptively dumping her in 3.1 was really about Oliver. They usually find some way to make storylines that seem to be hers really belong to someone else. Heck, even her evil daddy is going to at least parallel Oliver-as-lying-daddy and probably Malcolm, too. That's just how this show has always worked.

Maybe it depends on which episode is the flashback one. So that these idiots can contrast Oliver sleeping with Poppy with Felicity breaking up with him.

I'm looking forward to the Oliver/Poppy sex scene. I think it's going to rival the O/L hookup in S1 for pure unadulterated awkwardness.

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Maybe it depends on which episode is the flashback one. So that these idiots can contrast Oliver sleeping with Poppy with Felicity breaking up with him.

I am really scratching my head trying to understand how these writers think the audience will for one second buy a sexual attraction between Oliver and Poppy. There is nothing there and she just annoys me for whatever short period of screen time they want to devote to her. Just the idea of them bumping uglies makes my face distort unto something unrecognizable. Just straight up YUCK to any sex scene between Oliver and Poppy!

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(edited)

Maybe it depends on which episode is the flashback one. So that these idiots can contrast Oliver sleeping with Poppy with Felicity breaking up with him.

I can't keep track of that, 414 seemed to film a lot of present days scenes (4 days) for a flashback episode but 415 has Vixen so I can't see that being the mostly FB episode either.

412-413 has Calculator and seems to be the evil daddy reveal. Plus Roy/Arsenal returning.

411 seems to be Diggle centric and maybe Anarky

410 is directly connected to events in 409.

It seems like 414 is the most likely but, I'm not sure.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Mm yes you had to put that one out there.

 

Assuming Crash Positions is my life motto.

 

[Actually it's "I wanna mock people", but that one is up there in the top 5]

 

I am really scratching my head trying to understand how these writers think the audience will for one second buy a sexual attraction between Oliver and Poppy. There is nothing there and she just annoys me for whatever short period of screen time they want to devote to her. Just the idea of them bumping uglies makes my face distort unto something unrecognizable. Just straight up YUCK to any sex scene between Oliver and Poppy!

I'm 100% sure I'll forget this sex scene as soon as it's over -- because Poppy's superpower is giving me amnesia about her -- and apparently, so will Oliver.

Edited by dtissagirl
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I can't keep track of that, 414 seemed to film a lot of present days scenes (4 days) for a flashback episode but 415 has Vixen so I can't see that being the mostly FB episode either.

412-413 has Calculator and seems to be the evil daddy reveal. Plus Roy/Arsenal returning.

411 seems to be Diggle centric and maybe Anarky

410 is directly connected to events in 409.

It seems like 414 is the most likely but, I'm not sure.

 

Yeah, I'm thinking along that same sched, but if they still want to contrast Poppy with Felicity, then it's gotta happen on Sweeps, right?

 

But I don't know, maybe this is the year they finally wise up [sorry I made a funny] and move the FB episode away from sweeps BECAUSE NOBODY CARES.

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The Flashback episode definitely needs to be moved out of sweeps this year. How are they even going to string together enough plot to make an episode, never mind muster enough energy to not be a live-action Ambien?

 

At this point, I almost want OQ to wake up in the bar next to Waller in the final episode and say he had the most boring dream about returning to the island and cutting my hair. Then perhaps Constantine can pat him on the shoulder and say something cheeky like we've all been there... that's why you don't drink the barrel liquor. I don't know how he gets the tattoo, but at this point I would take him waking up with it and not remember how he got it like in the Hangover. Actually they should just bring Constantine & Slade back and have a Hangover themed flashback on Lian Yu. Now that would be worthy of an entire episode.

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I'm not sure Poppy dying would make any type of bump in the reception of the flashbacks. I'm not sure anyone would notice if she was alive or dead by the end of the season. At this point the only thing shocking to me would be if the present day grave reveal showed Poppy's name. Then, that would change the entire game.

 

The only reason I got a little emotional at Akio's death was because he was a kid, and it was sad to see him go for no good reason. But it really didn't impact the overall flashbacks, they still kinda sucked. Maseo's death only impacted me because of Tatsu's response and his final words. I'm not sure there is any character that could have a similar experience with Poppy.

 

When Poppy goes, I'm not sure it will be a big moment for anyone which is sad in and of itself.

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When Poppy goes, I'm not sure it will be a big moment for anyone which is sad in and of itself.

 

They could probably replace Poppy with a tree branch, and I wouldn't notice. Though there's a good chance the tree branch would have a better accent. I don't know, at this point, anything that could make me interested in the flashbacks unless Constantine was hanging out in the background. 

 

As far as Felicity in a wheelchair, I figure it won't last that long and will probably be handled poorly, so about average for this show. My gut says no way is DC letting "Oracle" go to TV so she'll probably be named Overwatch cuz that was the name of MG's book, and he's nothing if not unoriginal. Surprise me, MG!

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(edited)

Since DC ultimately owns the character of Felicity Smoak why would they allow MG to use a non Arrow related book/story title as Felicity's codename? I would imagine DC/WB and their lawyers would have some objection to that. Not to mention Berlanti, who is MG's boss, not sure he'd want something from his production company being used to promote a book he has no stake in.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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I just hope its not Overwatch. I hate that Felicity is used over comms because for practical purposes it is not smart. But I love her name! The different intonations and ways people say it (esp OQ) can say so much. I would hate for her to be saddle with a very un-pretty and clunky code name like Overwatch. I don't care how big MG's ego is, someone needs to shoot down that suggestion in the writers room.

Edited by kismet
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Since DC ultimately owns the character of Felicity Smoak why would they allow MG to use a non Arrow related book/story title as Felicity's codename? I would imagine DC/WB and their lawyers would have some objection to that. Not to mention Berlanti, who is MG's boss, not sure he'd want something from his production company being used to promote a book he has no stake in.

 

Good point. I hadn't thought about that. DC confuses me daily on the properties they do care about versus those that can be modified or changed outright. 

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Good point. I hadn't thought about that. DC confuses me daily on the properties they do care about versus those that can be modified or changed outright. 

 

It always depends on which character Dan Didio wakes up hating that day.

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(edited)

Good point. I hadn't thought about that. DC confuses me daily on the properties they do care about versus those that can be modified or changed outright.

I don't know who they care about, I just expect that they care about money and control. While Overwatch is a military term and not trademarked by MG I just think there would be objection by DC/WB/Berlanti/CW to using Arrow/Felicity to promote MG's personal work of fiction. I imagine they'd want to draw a line between Arrow, and MG's non Arrow related work. I could see an easter egg but this seems too big to allow.

I just expect DC would rather it's properties (like Arrow, Flash, LoT) pull from it's own catalogue of characters rather than support an external source.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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I just hope its not Overwatch. I hate that Felicity is used over comms because for practical purposes it is not smart. But I love her name! The different intonations and ways people say it (esp OQ) can say so much. I would hate for her to be saddle with a very un-pretty and clunky code name like Overwatch. I don't care how big MG's ego is, someone needs to shoot down that suggestion in the writers room.

 

 I kind of have hope for their codename choice for Felicity. For codenames, except for Laurel's IMO, they've all been somewhat heavy-handed but I still overall like the intros and become immediately alright with its continued use (Canary was Sara's League name, sure; Speedy was Thea's nickname for some weird reason, alright; Arsenal, a bit heavy-handed and reaching to get Roy to his comic destiny, but okay since he had a significant storyline in the episode it was in; Spartan, a bit random, but Felicity came up with it, Dig's mask does look like a Spartan helmet, and its intro made me smile and laugh more than about half of the ways Cisco comes up with the names on the Flash, so I liked it). Since they're waiting until 411, I've got to think that they sat on it for a little while. Plus, even though Diggle's name came in 406, we haven't even heard it since then, so even if everyone ends up hating it, it probably won't be said too often to be really bothersome (heck, Black Canary hasn't even really been said too much either).  

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Have they ever once used Spartan since Felicity threw it out there that one time in 406? If they have, it went right past me.

ETA: Nevermind, way2interested already answered. :)

Edited by Starfish35
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Lol I can't believe that Laurel's codename was given to her as an insult by her father

 

Nothing can beat how ridiculously pathetic that is. 

 

I doubt Felicity's codename will be in insult... The writers/EPs actually CARE about her character. 

Edited by wonderwall
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I think Felicitys code name is going to be a bigger deal in the show than Diggles or Laurels. By bigger deal I mean more than a casual line or insult. I think the show is going going to give it a 'moment.'

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I think Felicitys code name is going to be a bigger deal in the show than Diggles or Laurels. By bigger deal I mean more than a casual line or insult. I think the show is going going to give it a 'moment.'

 

I think her codename will be especially important when her father comes into town. I just don't think it's a coincidence that Felicity would get her codename the episode before the Calculator comes to town. Granted, it's Roy who brings him into town, but this would be the perfect opportunity to mirror the comics and have the Calculator be obsessed in figuring out who [enter Felicity's codename] is only to figure out that she's his daughter. 

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My money is on Proxy, since they are bringing in The Calculator as her father.. it's simple, unoriginal (in terms of MG originality) and a good replacement for not being able to use Oracle.

 

Proxy doesn't have an "A" in it, though (can't believe we have to take a small hint like that from MG, a quick Instagram video, and the statements of a bitter photographer to make bold legitimate theories). Although, for all intents and purposes, they are making her Proxy. 

 

One thing I do hope is that her name has a tie-in from the team. One of the reasons that Laurel's felt so off, besides it coming from an insult, is the fact that it was made completely away from the team at all. Any time that they use it, I wonder when and how Laurel told them about her new name for being out in the field. For the rest of the names on the team, Oliver's had some sort of hand in using/creating them. Arsenal was his idea, and he was the first one to use it. He told the rest of the team to call Thea "Speedy." Even Spartan was made by Felicity over comms for everyone to hear, so the team could be in on it as well. So, to me, Felicity's name should be made in a way that becomes accessible to the team, with some form of approval from Felicity, like with Diggle's name. Although, her name seems to be coming during an episode that focuses on Diggle and seems to have Anarky in it (which could be the reason they switch her to a codename to begin with, since Anarky is back), so I kind of feel like now it's just going to be a throw away line like "Spartan." 

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My money is on Proxy, since they are bringing in The Calculator as her father.. it's simple, unoriginal (in terms of MG originality) and a good replacement for not being able to use Oracle.

 

MG said that her codename has the letter 'a' in it so it can't be proxy :)

 

ETA: everyone else beat me to the punch :)

Edited by wonderwall
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I think Felicitys code name is going to be a bigger deal in the show than Diggles or Laurels. By bigger deal I mean more than a casual line or insult. I think the show is going going to give it a 'moment.'

I also think it will be a big thing as well. The other reason I think they have put more effort into her codename is because she is the one on the comms, so it will probably be used the most in dialogue moving fwd. The other people are in the field, and there is generally not lines written between them, so we don't hear it as much, but they are always radioing into the foundry.

 

As for what it is, we have already have had multiple discussions on it. But as the time approaches, if DC gave them the OK, which might be possible now that FS is more established and bringing in some money, they might go with Oracle. Since like Arrow, its a name that can be passed on or used by others. It's not like Batman or Superman which are really not interchangeable amongst people. If not, I think they might keep with the goddess theme and go with ATHENA. It fits everything that FS is on the show. And I could see FS turning to mythology to find her name, plus they have turned there this season for Dig's name. Per Wikipedia, Athena is the “goddess of wisdom, courage, inspiration, civilization, law and justice, mathematics, strength, war strategy, the arts, crafts, and skill. Athena is known for her calm temperament, as she moves slowly to anger [iMO, probably the only thing that doesn’t fit her perfectly]. She is noted to have only fought for just reasons, and would not fight without a purpose”. That is very much like FS to me.

 

Because I like it, I will still say I like Sage. But FS is not my hero to name, so my personal reasons are probably not relevant, even if they are logical.

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By 'big deal' and 'moment', I mean the show is going to highlight it. Maybe with music or heavy handed dialogue. Oliver getting the mask was a moment. Changing the name from The Hood to Arrow was a moment. I'm thinking a scene like in Smallville when Chloe came online as Watchtower. That was a moment.

Diggle and Laurel didn't get one. People were wondering if Spartan was Diggles code name because it wasn't clear. Laurel got the name spit at her by her father and than suddenly everyone was calling her that.

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There are some names in that list that I think would be cool for Felicity but I seriously doubt that any of them would get used like Artemis, Lady Blackhawk to name a couple

I feel like Artemis has two strikes against it. One it is connected to Wonder Woman lure, so if they have plans to do more with Wonder Woman after BvS, than they might want to keep that name safe. If DC is unwilling to give up Oracle, I can see them wanting to hold onto Artemis. The other strike against it, is that it sounds very similar to who OQ is as a person when you read the mythology, and as much as I think they have similarities in their personalities. FS has never seemed like one who shares characteristics with the “goddess of the hunt, wild animals, wilderness, childbirth, virginity and protector of young girls, bringing and relieving disease in women; she often was depicted as a huntress carrying a bow and arrows” (From wikipedia). That being said, I’ve always thought FS had a secret obsession with Archery, so maybe this will be part of that reveal if they chose that name.

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It's not like Batman or Superman which are really not interchangeable amongst people.

 

Dick Grayson was Batman for a good chunk of time between 2009 and 2011, right before DC rebooted into the New 52, so even the big ones can be interchangeable.

 

I don't want Felicity's codename to be Oracle for several reasons, but I'm starting to think it will be Oracle. If only because the Teen Titans show seems to be dead-dead now.

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By 'big deal' and 'moment', I mean the show is going to highlight it. Maybe with music or heavy handed dialogue. Oliver getting the mask was a moment. Changing the name from The Hood to Arrow was a moment. I'm thinking a scene like in Smallville when Chloe came online as Watchtower. That was a moment.

Diggle and Laurel didn't get one. People were wondering if Spartan was Diggles code name because it wasn't clear. Laurel got the name spit at her by her father and than suddenly everyone was calling her that.

 Would love that, and that's my best case scenario. Only problem there is that those two moments you mentioned in-show relate to Oliver, who is the main character. Now Sara got a moment in 222 when Laurel named her in public, and Thea got her shot reveal with the dramatic music in the background when she wore her now Speedy costume and her talking with Oliver about her name was a cute moment, but it's still a flip of the coin since on the other hand Diggle's and Laurel's namings were pretty quick. Here's hoping that Felicity does get a meaningful moment to get her name, but I would wonder where or when it would come in during 411.

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I'm convinced she will be temporarally in a wheelchair and I'm about 90% on her name being Oracle.

They were going to call her episode "Oracle" so DC cleared that. I think the only reason it was pulled is because of Teen Titans and with that done I think there is a good chance they gave it back to Arrow.

As much as I want Felicity to have a unique name, I can't deny that 'Oracle' has its petty perks. Instead of eating popcorn, I think I'd switch to apples for that episode.

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Actually IMO FS is slow to anger and when she reaches her point of no return she gets angry. It is usually a slow burn for her.

Very true. I just remember more of her angry outburst than not. And when she does blow its memorable, it also is one of human flaws/characteristics. But I could agree with you that she often more of a slow burn. They've just written her with a short fuse for plot purposes a few times in s3 & s4. So perhaps that is what I'm remembering. I still think the description for Athena fits her.

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Okay...... If you had to choose which one do you rather the show use?

 

Oracle

Vs.

 

Overwatch

Ha, honestly my gut tells me they're using neither, but, without questioning it, would have to go with Overwatch. Oracle would bring too much extra drama onto the fandom, with some comic fans either going "ha! I was right! She is Oracle! Now I can start caring about her because comics" or "Ok, but she's not really Oracle, so now I hate her and the show even more for doing that." Even I would feel uncomfortable with her being called Oracle considering the fact that she is definitely not Barbara Gordon. Taking Spartan or White Canary is one thing, because of their little history, but Oracle is a whole other matter.

 

Overwatch at least, despite the MG of it all, at least makes sense to me given Diggle's military background and the subtle references they've made to Oliver and Diggle being soldiers in a war. It would be like acknowledging that Felicity's in the war just as much as they are. 

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I think from a showrunners with huge egos standpoint, Oracle is THE GET, after having it, and then losing it.

 

My personal preference would be Firewall, though, because it's Oracle-adjacent [it's what Babs called her ~secret lair~ during BQM's Batgirl run], but unique as a superhero name.

Edited by dtissagirl
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(edited)

Okay...... If you had to choose which one do you rather the show use?

Oracle

Vs.

Overwatch

I detest Overwatch with a passion.

I don't want Oracle but I'm actually inclined to believe Arrow got the go ahead to give Felicity the codename.

Personally I'd rather they just picked an obscure name that no one really remembers and make it her own.

My personal preference would be Firewall, though, because it's Oracle-adjacent [it's what Babs called her ~secret lair~ during BQM's Batgirl run], but unique as a superhero name.

Hmm, Firewall, could work. It's doesn't have that "cool" sound but, I could grow to like it.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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I'm now thinking of that scene in "True Lies" where Jamie Lee Curtis' character thought she'd get the code name "Natasha" and ended up with "Doris" instead :P I can't wait to hear Felicity's code name and I agree with the posters above who think it won't be "Oracle" or even "Overwatch," that it'll be something a little bit more obscure but from DC lore. But I do hope that after all the waiting the show actually does give the naming a "moment" -- and that the naming comes from either Oliver or Diggle.

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I'm out of the loop on spoilers and these threads lately but...

 

I don't want Felicity to be called Oracle. I want her to have her own story. Knowing my luck though, that's what she'll be called. Dreading it.

 

I also don't want her to be in a wheelchair either but I've accepted that happening. I do think she'll be in that chair for at least 4 episodes, probably much more. Also dreading it. But it is what it is. 

Edited by Guest
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Firewall is good, but I still can't read it without automatically singing Pitbull's Fireball. But I could get over it, perhaps.

 

I like Oracle, but I'm not a comics reader so I have no pre-existing drama with the name. At least it seems to fit her character from what I've read. But I can see how the fandom may rage a little bit as a result of the name. That being said, people will have to get over it, let it go or move on. I just hope they don't keep her in the wheelchair forever because of her new name.

 

Overwatch is just down right ugly to hear. And sounds nothing like who FS is. There is no magic in that name. And I want FS to have a beautiful sounding codename that reflects her skills and personality. Speedy is like TQ in her personality. Roy is like an Arsenal. Dig can be a Spartan. And Canary had beautiful symbolism for CL. I really liked Arrow for OQ, but I realize they needed to add a color - still I think that Green Arrow is a dumb sounding name. Overwatch has no connection to FS. Plus its too military sounding.

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Would love that, and that's my best case scenario. Only problem there is that those two moments you mentioned in-show relate to Oliver, who is the main character. Now Sara got a moment in 222 when Laurel named her in public, and Thea got her shot reveal with the dramatic music in the background when she wore her now Speedy costume and her talking with Oliver about her name was a cute moment, but it's still a flip of the coin since on the other hand Diggle's and Laurel's namings were pretty quick. Here's hoping that Felicity does get a meaningful moment to get her name, but I would wonder where or when it would come in during 411.

Diggle got a bit of a moment with his suit reveal but the code name. Fans were talking up a suit for him but I don't think there was a big code name push. There is a big code name push for Felicity which is why I think she has a good chance of getting a highlight. Esp if it is Oracle. Or even Overwatch (due to MG).

Laurel is Laurel. They don't seem to care that much.

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I think I'd be more comfortable if they gave Felicity Watchtower than if they give her Oracle. Because if it IS Oracle, then the single reason they're putting her in a wheelchair is so they can call her Oracle. External motivation like this is never a good thing in my book.

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