Spoiler Discussion Thread

[GreatAtBoats]

I'll take acting with your arms constantly crossed over the "acting" on display in that "I love you" clip from the preview. Yikes. That's just laughably bad.

[SleepDeprived]

Oh. So, pulling a Zoolander (same expression/stance/approach in almost everything ever) is better acting than one that ends up making someone look less than attractive to show actual desperation/fear/emotions? Coolio.

 

I, on the other hand, actually prefer actors to act and not just look like they're trying to act. YMMV, though. :)

[kes0704]

My poor, poor Felicity. She continues to tell Oliver she loves him and he continues...to lie to her face.

Post 409, if Felicity is gravely injured and Oliver chooses to leave her to run off and visit secret kid and his horrible mother I'm going to throw something at the TV. If they want me to believe he is really in love with her then the only reason I will accept for him leaving her side is to seek retribution on the person who hurt her. I survived season 3 but I now have very limited reserves of patience for this show.

Oh, and I'm with whoever is betting on Oliver turning to baby mama once Felicity dumps him (using, I suspect, a variation on the wording from the 408 fight about his lying...because time travel). As SA and the EPs have said, the show is the show and having Oliver jump into bed with her will reignite his S1/S2 habit of sleeping with any woman in arms reach that he's not related to. Hmmm...it seems like my opinion of him might have reached epically low levels after 408.

[dtissagirl]

Post 409, if Felicity is gravely injured and Oliver chooses to leave her to run off and visit secret kid and his horrible mother I'm going to throw something at the TV.

 

You know, I think there's a grace window to this stupid lie, and that windows ends right there. From now up until the moment Oliver might lie about this again. And if he doesn't -- if he doesn't go visit William UNTIL Felicity knows about this -- then I might be able to accept this whole storyline.

 

I mean, I don't think this can be walked back -- Oliver chose to lie to Felicity, and I hope she punches him up the nose for it -- but it's that NEXT LIE that's gonna be unforgivable for me. If/when Oliver sneaks out to CC to visit William, that's when this becomes too disgusting to me.

 

The problem is I'm not sure this will come up again until Felicity IS in recovery, and so, even if Oliver doesn't go visit William before that, it's still a whole lot of time passing between lying by omission, getting engaged, and Felicity finding out. Ugh.

[Guest]

Part of me thinks Oliver isn't thinking about this in the long term sense. I feel like his view/world has narrowed to making sure he can be in William's life by any means necessary and also making sure Felicity is still in his life, too. I honestly don't think he's even considering the next lie he has to tell in order to go visit his son. He's just pure relief that he can have his cake and eat it right now.

 

I do agree it depends on how this handled next though. I'm kind of dreading the thought that bitch baby mama will ring Oliver and say it's time to meet William again, right at the same time Felicity is laid up recovering from her injuries or whatever. And I know asking to chose between his son and his girlfriend is a losing game but it's how he handles that which will be the make or break for this, in part. If he tells a ridiculous lie and Felicity is supportive and tells him to go and that she'll be fine and he still goes without feeling conflicted? He can GTFO. Because that would be the time for him to come clean, IMO. 

 

I just don't know how they're going to handle it. But I need to see him conflicted and upset about having to lie and maybe some "I can't lie like this anymore, Samantha!" kind of dialogue otherwise this is exactly like old Ollie and he was an asshole who pretty much got off on lying and getting away with it.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Guest

[dtissagirl]

What sucks even more is I'm pretty resigned that Oliver won't be the one to come clean to Felicity. And she'll find out on her own [or through her father, or DD], because THIS SHOW.

[looptab]

^^ I'm leaning towards her father. Like, I imagine he knows all kinds of things on her and her life.

 

Wish someone would ask Guggentroll for the script page for that last scene. The Horror! It's that "It doesn't matter, it's over" that makes me want to puke and punch him and his stupid lying face.

Edited December 4, 2015 by looptab

[kes0704]

If they keep to the pattern of recycling storylines, my money is on DD telling her, because the villain of the story has revealed Oliver's secrets for the past two seasons..wash, rinse, repeat.

[Guest]

What sucks even more is I'm pretty resigned that Oliver won't be the one to come clean to Felicity. And she'll find out on her own [or through her father, or DD], because THIS SHOW.

 

Sigh. Tbh, so am I. I'm just hoping for a different outcome because it's the fourth season and we're still having the villain tell people Oliver's secrets. I'm so BORED of it. It's legit boring now. 

[dtissagirl]

Yeah. I'm bored, and I'm tired of the lie already.

 

And THEN there's Guggentroll's asinine tweet about nobody thinking killing Count Vertigo was regression, but now it is. Which kinda tells me that he doesn't think this lie is a regression? Is the narrative gonna back Oliver up? That's my main fear.

 

I mean. Not that I expect Guggie to know his own show or anything, but the reason nobody thought killing the Count was regression is because THE SAME EPISODE ADDRESSED IT. Felicity brought it up in the end, that she was sorry she put Oliver in a position to kill -- lampshading the the fact that Oliver resorted to killing again , and that this could potentially be a regression -- and Oliver told her he had no choice. And he didn't regret it, and he didn't think he made a mistake.

 

This time around, I'm not sure they won't bend over backwards to try and justify Oliver's lying as the right thing to do. Especially considering this is EXACTLY what they did with Laurel's storyline of resurrecting Sara from start to end.

[Tazmania]

The fact that Oliver thinks he can successfully lie to a woman who knows him so well, she knows his DNA sequence is rather laughable. He couldn't lie to her successfully when he barely knew her in season 1, now that they have worked together for 3 and half years and have been living together for 6 months, he has no chance in hell of lying to her and that not coming back to bite him on the face.

I hope everyone chews him out when they find out about this idiotic lie.

[looptab]

That's already happening. There's people finding the mother's conditions reasonable, so Oliver was in a no-win situation, and he ultimately made what he had to do to be in his son's life. That's how they're seeing it as well, IMO.

[apinknightmare]

Which kinda tells me that he doesn't think this lie is a regression? Is the narrative gonna back Oliver up? That's my main fear.

 

I'm guessing that he thinks a "justified" lie isn't regressing. That Oliver is lying because that's the term set forth by his child's mother as a condition of getting to see him, and therefore understandable and honorable, unlike a lie just to protect someone, or...something. 

 

Since WM says everything blows up spectacularly when the secret comes out, I'm not sure the narrative is going to back him up, but maybe it will. Who knows with this show. 

[Guest]

That's already happening. There's people finding the mother's conditions reasonable, so Oliver was in a no-win situation, and he ultimately made what he had to do to be in his son's life. That's how they're seeing it as well, IMO.

 

This is what's bugging me a lot about this. Felicity is the one being lied to and yet I can't shake the feeling she'll be made the bad guy in this. Because some say the baby mama is strong and wonderful to have been a single mother and raised a good boy all by herself and her conditions are fair, and Oliver is being good and honorable by honoring her wishes and 'Aw, see! He only wants to know his son, he's come so far!'

 

And then there's Felicity who only really wants to be told the truth but she'll be devastated when she finds out she's been lied to and she'll rightly dump his ass and I feel sure there'll be cries of 'She's making it all about herself! Whiny bitch! Why can't she understand he's doing what he needed to do!'

 

It's like she can't win in this. Because if she refuses to stay with Oliver after his lies, she's not understanding or supportive. But if she stays with him after she finds out, she's a pushover. I just don't see this ending well tbh. 

Edited December 4, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

This is what's bugging me a lot about this. Felicity is the one being lied to and yet I can't shake the feeling she'll be made the bad guy in this. Because some say the baby mama is strong and wonderful to have been a single mother and raised a good boy all by herself and her conditions are fair, and Oliver is being good and honorable by honoring her wishes and 'Aw, see! He only wants to know his son, he's come so far!'

 

And then there's Felicity who only really wants to be told the truth but she'll be devastated when she finds out she's been lied to and she'll rightly dump his ass and I feel sure there'll be cries of 'She's making it all about herself! Whiny bitch! Why can't she understand he's doing what he needed to do!'

 

It's like she can't win in this. Because if she refuses to stay with Oliver after his lies, she's not understanding or supportive. But if she stays with him after she finds out, she's a pushover. I just don't see this ending well tbh. 

 

I think them getting engaged will be the kicker. He's asking her to commit to him for the rest of her life without telling her one VERY BIG THING about his life that will affect her for as long as they're married. Anyone who hates her for getting upset about being lied to about something like that was going to hate her regardless. 

Edited December 4, 2015 by apinknightmare

[kes0704]

It's going to be interesting to see the social media fallout if/when Oliver proposes to Felicity while keeping such as life changing secret from her. I'm thinking that the EPs will see a proposal as a grand romantic moment and (some) viewers will see it as a huge betrayal of trust and forever tainted by the lying.

MG, in particular, seemed to seriously underestimate how the audience might respond to various plot points so many times during season 3. Laurel lying continually to her father about Sara's death, using the voice changer to fool him, Felicity's 'light' comment to Laurel, the forced marriage, Ray Palmer and his stalkery tendencies and on and on we go.

[kismet]

I've slept on it. And I'm still pissed. What he did was really crappy, but not unforgivable. How he handles it in the next 2-3 episodes will be testament to if it can be walked back. He most definitely cannot propose with that lie just hanging in between them. But I wonder if they willl resolve it next epsidoe or at least during the winter premiere. Almost losing FS should make him realize he can't do things the same.

My other wish before I get on the road for a 8hr road trip. That we find out that in resetting the timeline, it messed with people's minds & there is some type of hangover that makes people regress to a previous mindset. That the combination of time around BabyMama & the power of time that he started acting like Ollie but it's temporary aftereffects that he will wake up from.

Even without time whammy stuff. It's not uncommon for people to bring out the "old you" if you spend time around people that are an influence over you & I think BM is a bad influence. Like when you hangout with old coworkers & friends and start to act like who you were before you made certain personality & life changes. A few days in FS presence may cure him. Then again I know this show, so I know to not to get my hopes up.

I just want to not be so pessimistic about the future of the show or OQ. The show was doing such a good job mtakeing me want to look fwd to it again. I'm giving them 2 episodes max to handle this in a responsible way. Because in real time thats a little over a month for OQ to wrap his head around his stupidity.

Edited December 4, 2015 by kismet

[apinknightmare]

I've slept on it. And I'm still pissed. What he did was really crappy, but not unforgivable. How he handles it in the next 2-3 episodes will be testament to if it can be walked back. He most definitely cannot propose with that lie just hanging in between them. But I wonder if they willl resolve it next epsidoe or at least during the winter premiere. Almost losing FS should make him realize he can't do things the same.

 

If that proposal is real and not part of a set-up, I think you should count on him proposing to her with that lie between them. I really don't think it's going to be resolved in the next ep. I think we might get a moment where he starts to come clean, but then something terrible is going to happen, and he won't. And then, if it is Felicity in the hospital in 4x10, he won't then, either. I think you should count on Felicity finding out on her own, probably when her father comes into town. 

Edited December 4, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Password]

I'm going to be really shortsighted for now. I need to see what happens in episode 9 before I even think of 10-13. I just can't get poor Felicity's face out of my head.

[dtissagirl]

I'm assuming crash positions because it's the only way I don't stop watching. Per TV law, O/F won't break up until February sweeps, so Felicity won't find out until at least 412.

 

And Felicity finding out Oliver is hiding a son at the same time her father shows up is EXACTLY the kind of thing this show likes. It's = pile-dumping Malcolm is Thea's father + dun dun dun he's alive in the same episode.

[quarks]

Yeah.

 

In season one, Oliver/the Hood and Laurel, after occasionally working together on some cases, "broke up" in episode 13, with the Hood refusing to work further with Laurel.  Tommy then dumped Laurel in episode 20 allowing Oliver and Laurel to hook up to a rather unfortunate (but I think deliberate) musical choice in episode 22.

 

In season two, Oliver hooked up with Sara in episode 13, pulling a temporary break on Oliver and Felicity. Sara then dumped Oliver in episode 20, allowing Felicity to hug Oliver and tell him that she believed in him in episode 22, followed by the "I love you," in episode 23.

 

In season three, Felicity told Oliver that she didn't want to be a woman he loved in episode 12, and slept with Ray in episode 15. The pattern here changed slightly - Ray dumped her in episode 20 (pattern!) allowing Felicity and Oliver to get together in episode 20, a bit early, but then they immediately split up and didn't get together until episode 23, but still.

 

In season four, posters here started predicting back in September/October, well before Samantha returned to this show with her emotional blackmailing ways, that Oliver/Felicity would have some sort of split in episodes 12/13, and start to get back together in episode 20 - right around the grave death. 

[Morrigan2575]

Yep, these guys love their patterns.

[tv echo]

Man, this is well done by a fan (posting here because it includes 409 spoiler)...

 

http://glamorous-enterlude.tumblr.com/post/134502206498/arrow-season-25-arrow-s0409

Edited December 4, 2015 by tv echo

[NumberCruncher]

Quarks, having you (and others) lay out the same patterns by season always makes me laugh at how unbelievably predictable these writers are. There has to be some kind of drinking game in there.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm thinking the asshole formerly known as Oliver will cave in 410. With what happens at the bay, then the party, then the limo crash, maybe his conscience will eat him alive.

Wendy Mericle said in an interview that he is not going to tell her.  She's going to find out some other way.  Additionally, they've said his lies come to a head "around the middle of the season."  That's not 4.10, it's more like 12-ish...aka February sweeps.  In show time, that's 2-3 months.  He's going to lie to her and visit the kid, piling on more lies, for 2-3 months.  Lie to her face, in their home, while living off her money.  And PROPOSE MARRIAGE to her while lying with basically every breath he takes.

[apinknightmare]

It's like she can't win in this. Because if she refuses to stay with Oliver after his lies, she's not understanding or supportive. But if she stays with him after she finds out, she's a pushover. I just don't see this ending well tbh. 

 

Just because I've been thinking about this, I hope that when this breakup inevitably happens, that Felicity waits a bit and is nice and calm when she confronts Oliver about it. Like...he comes home from a visit in Central City that she knows is to see the kid, and she's just sitting at the dining room table with the engagement ring sitting in front of her, and says something like, "Did you have a nice visit with your son?" And he just looks like he's about to shit himself, haha. And then while expressing her heartbreak and anger over being engaged to a man who would lie to her about something that was so big, she could also be supportive by telling him that she thinks he'd be a great father (sans the stupid lying, of course). I don't think the writers will deal with it with any kind of nuance, so I'm not expecting to get something like this, but I would like it if it happened in a similar fashion.

Quarks, having you (and others) lay out the same patterns by season always makes me laugh at how unbelievably predictable these writers are. There has to be some kind of drinking game in there.

 

The pattern is purely because of sweeps. 

Edited December 4, 2015 by apinknightmare

[lexicon]

I'm guessing that he thinks a "justified" lie isn't regressing. That Oliver is lying because that's the term set forth by his child's mother as a condition of getting to see him, and therefore understandable and honorable, unlike a lie just to protect someone, or...something. 

 

The thing I don't get about that kind of justification from MG or the others who 'understand' what Oliver is doing is what is the rationale for that? Is it that she's his child's mother and controls access to him so he has to acquiesce to WHATEVER she says no matter how dumbass? There's been a lot of discussion about Oliver's rights legally and I won't rehash that except to say that he would absolutely be able to get visitation. The sole concern that he could have that I would find valid is a public custody/visitation application would draw the attention of some very bad people to the kid but SHE DOESN'T KNOW THAT so why not threaten to throw the might and power of the Queen name around in order to see his son? 

 

Anyhoo back to my original point, would Oliver/MG/various others do WHATEVER BM says? Like what if she says you can see William but only if we get married or if you kill my ex or break up with your girlfriend or tell me who the Flash is? I know these are ridiculous ideas but they're deliberately so to emphasise my point. If these examples are untenable to Oliver/MG etc then what makes lying to Felicity okay? Is it that they're arguing that it's a reasonable request and so okay? I have even more problems with that. It means that there is a limit to what Oliver Queen would see as acceptable in that very same situation in order to meet the demands of BM to see his son and that by choosing to lie to Felicity, he was saying that it was not beyond the bounds of what he'd deem unreasonable or unacceptable. Simply, he chose and he did not choose Felicity. 

Edited December 4, 2015 by lexicon

[AyChihuahua]

I've slept on it. And I'm still pissed. What he did was really crappy, but not unforgivable. How he handles it in the next 2-3 episodes will be testament to if it can be walked back. He most definitely cannot propose with that lie just hanging in between them. But I wonder if they willl resolve it next epsidoe or at least during the winter premiere. Almost losing FS should make him realize he can't do things the same.

My other wish before I get on the road for a 8hr road trip. That we find out that in resetting the timeline, it messed with people's minds & there is some type of hangover that makes people regress to a previous mindset. That the combination of time around BabyMama & the power of time that he started acting like Ollie but it's temporary aftereffects that he will wake up from.

Even without time whammy stuff. It's not uncommon for people to bring out the "old you" if you spend time around people that are an influence over you & I think BM is a bad influence. Like when you hangout with old coworkers & friends and start to act like who you were before you made certain personality & life changes. A few days in FS presence may cure him. Then again I know this show, so I know to not to get my hopes up.

I just want to not be so pessimistic about the future of the show or OQ. The show was doing such a good job mtakeing me want to look fwd to it again. I'm giving them 2 episodes max to handle this in a responsible way. Because in real time thats a little over a month for OQ to wrap his head around his stupidity.

I hope you realize that none of this is going to happen.  Unless Wendy Mericle is flat out lying, he's not going to tell her at all, and in fact he's going to tell her more lies about where he's going and what he's doing every time he visits the spawn.  There is no time-change mind whammy.  There has never been anything in either show even remotely implying that.  Oliver is just still Ollie deep down inside.

Edited December 4, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Guest]

Just because I've been thinking about this, I hope that when this breakup inevitably happens, that Felicity waits a bit and is nice and calm when she confronts Oliver about it. Like...he comes home from a visit in Central City that she knows is to see the kid, and she's just sitting at the dining room table with the engagement ring sitting in front of her, and says something like, "Did you have a nice visit with your son?" And he just looks like he's about to shit himself, haha. And then while expressing her heartbreak and anger over being engaged to a man who would lie to her about something that was so big, she could also be supportive by telling him that she thinks he'd be a great father (sans the stupid lying, of course). I don't think the writers will deal with it with any kind of nuance, so I'm not expecting to get something like this, but I would like it if it happened in a similar fashion.

 

Read the latest MachaSWicket fic. It's exactly how I'd want it to play out, too, which means it's not gonna happen.

[AyChihuahua]

Part of me thinks Oliver isn't thinking about this in the long term sense. I feel like his view/world has narrowed to making sure he can be in William's life by any means necessary and also making sure Felicity is still in his life, too. I honestly don't think he's even considering the next lie he has to tell in order to go visit his son. He's just pure relief that he can have his cake and eat it right now.

 

I do agree it depends on how this handled next though. I'm kind of dreading the thought that bitch baby mama will ring Oliver and say it's time to meet William again, right at the same time Felicity is laid up recovering from her injuries or whatever. And I know asking to chose between his son and his girlfriend is a losing game but it's how he handles that which will be the make or break for this, in part. If he tells a ridiculous lie and Felicity is supportive and tells him to go and that she'll be fine and he still goes without feeling conflicted? He can GTFO. Because that would be the time for him to come clean, IMO. 

 

I just don't know how they're going to handle it. But I need to see him conflicted and upset about having to lie and maybe some "I can't lie like this anymore, Samantha!" kind of dialogue otherwise this is exactly like old Ollie and he was an asshole who pretty much got off on lying and getting away with it.

I mean, I get that everyone always says your kids come first no matter what.  That, btw, is a sentiment that has led to a lot of helicopter parenting.  But if the choice is between a regular visit to the spawn vs. staying by Felicity's side while she's in the hospital, and Oliver chooses to leave her to go visit the kid, that's pretty shitty.  It shouldn't just be that he runs to CC whenever BM calls no matter what.  The OTHER people in his life count too.

[apinknightmare]

The thing I don't get about that kind of justification from MG or the others who 'understand' what Oliver is doing is what is the rationale for that? Is it that she's his child's mother and controls access to him so he has to acquiesce to WHATEVER she says no matter how dumbass? There's been a lot of discussion about Oliver's rights legally and I won't rehash that except to say that he would absolutely be able to get visitation. The sole concern that he could have that I would find valid is a public custody/visitation application would draw the attention of some very bad people to the kid but SHE DOESN'T KNOW THAT so why not threaten to use the might and power of the Queen name around in order to see his son?

 

This is the problem with Barry being the only person who knows about it, and Oliver not getting a voice other than a thirty second convo with him. Oliver would and should have some valid concerns about it being public knowledge that he has a kid, especially about getting into a public custody battle now that he's got Damien Darhk giving him veiled threats at police galas. But he never expressed that to anyone, so we don't know if that's part of his reasoning or not. He could threaten the woman with legal action, but not really be willing to follow up on that for the above reasons, so...maybe that's why he didn't, but he never said so. 

 

There's not a whole lot of exploration into Oliver's headspace, because the lie is a lie for lying purposes, for the sole reason of dramatic fallout.

[Morrigan2575]

Can someone please provide the article/interview where WM said that Oliver wouldn't tell Felicity?

Everything I've read has WM saying she won't say how it's going to happen but that it will come out around mid-season and like everything on Arrow there will be consequences.

Basically, it's all the same quote probably from a conference call interview.

“It’s definitely going to come to a head in the middle of the season. We can’t tell you how that’s gonna happen. But obviously for the arc of Oliver and Felicity’s relationship this season, the fact that he’s keeping this from her … true to what we’ve done on the show, if there’s a secret somewhere, it’s going to come out and it’s going to have some serious consequences,” she noted. “We’re really excited about how that’s going to change things and it’s really gonna raise the stakes and throw some wrenches into the works of their relationship — which so far this season has been pretty smooth sailing. True to form, we’re gonna really mine that. There’ll be some fallout for both of them.”

Edited December 4, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

You know, I think there's a grace window to this stupid lie, and that windows ends right there. From now up until the moment Oliver might lie about this again. And if he doesn't -- if he doesn't go visit William UNTIL Felicity knows about this -- then I might be able to accept this whole storyline.

 

I mean, I don't think this can be walked back -- Oliver chose to lie to Felicity, and I hope she punches him up the nose for it -- but it's that NEXT LIE that's gonna be unforgivable for me. If/when Oliver sneaks out to CC to visit William, that's when this becomes too disgusting to me.

 

The problem is I'm not sure this will come up again until Felicity IS in recovery, and so, even if Oliver doesn't go visit William before that, it's still a whole lot of time passing between lying by omission, getting engaged, and Felicity finding out. Ugh.

My point of no return is him proposing.  If he does indeed propose, which seems extremely likely right now, that would make her a stepmother-to-be.  Doing that without telling her the kid she'd be stepmothering EXISTS is 100% turd. 

 

If, on the other hand, he tells her next week, prior to proposing, I will come to this board and eat crow.  I will tweet a sincere apology to Guggie, et al.

 

I will also eat my hat, 'cause it ain't gonna happen.

[apinknightmare]

I mean, I get that everyone always says your kids come first no matter what.  That, btw, is a sentiment that has led to a lot of helicopter parenting.  But if the choice is between a regular visit to the spawn vs. staying by Felicity's side while she's in the hospital, and Oliver chooses to leave her to go visit the kid, that's pretty shitty.  It shouldn't just be that he runs to CC whenever BM calls no matter what.  The OTHER people in his life count too.

 

I'm wondering how the situation is going to play out, and SUPER GLAD that the scene that we saw filmed that we thought was for 4x10 was actually for 4x08. BM doesn't seem like she'd call at all or make any kind of demands, since she was pretty clear that she didn't want Oliver involved with her son or to be a coparent. I suppose that could change, but...IDK.

[AyChihuahua]

This is the problem with Barry being the only person who knows about it, and Oliver not getting a voice other than a thirty second convo with him. Oliver would and should have some valid concerns about it being public knowledge that he has a kid, especially about getting into a public custody battle now that he's got Damien Darhk giving him veiled threats at police galas. But he never expressed that to anyone, so we don't know if that's part of his reasoning or not. He could threaten the woman with legal action, but not really be willing to follow up on that for the above reasons, so...maybe that's why he didn't, but he never said so. 

 

There's not a whole lot of exploration into Oliver's headspace, because the lie is a lie for lying purposes, for the sole reason of dramatic fallout.

I'm generally fine with him not threatening legal action right now, or even, at this point, thinking about it.  It just happened. 

 

I'm just not fine with him not telling Felicity when he knows she'd never tell anyone else, and piling on more lies.

[AyChihuahua]

Just because I've been thinking about this, I hope that when this breakup inevitably happens, that Felicity waits a bit and is nice and calm when she confronts Oliver about it. Like...he comes home from a visit in Central City that she knows is to see the kid, and she's just sitting at the dining room table with the engagement ring sitting in front of her, and says something like, "Did you have a nice visit with your son?" And he just looks like he's about to shit himself, haha. And then while expressing her heartbreak and anger over being engaged to a man who would lie to her about something that was so big, she could also be supportive by telling him that she thinks he'd be a great father (sans the stupid lying, of course). I don't think the writers will deal with it with any kind of nuance, so I'm not expecting to get something like this, but I would like it if it happened in a similar fashion. 

Fic it!  You write great fic (although your Oliver is a much better person than showOliver).

[dtissagirl]

My point of no return is him proposing.  If he does indeed propose, which seems extremely likely right now, that would make her a stepmother-to-be.  Doing that without telling her the kid she'd be stepmothering EXISTS is 100% turd.

 

I think he's gonna start telling her all about it in the limo ride from doom, right after proposing. As other have said, to parallel Moira starting to tell him about the kid before THAT limo ride from doom went kablooey. And then crash boom bang.

 

Oliver, stop riding in limos.

Edited December 4, 2015 by dtissagirl

[apinknightmare]

Fic it!  You write great fic (although your Oliver is a much better person than showOliver).

 

Haha, thank you! This show has killed my will to fic - bless the people who are able to write fix-its, though.

 

 

I think he's gonna start telling her all about it in the limo ride from doom, right after proposing. As other have said, to parallel Moira starting to tell him about the kid before THAT limo ride from doom went kablooey. And then crash boom bang.

 

Oliver, stop riding in limos.

 

 

Pretty sure that's exactly what's going to happen.

[AyChihuahua]

I think he's gonna start telling her all about it in the limo ride from doom, right after proposing. As other have said, to parallel Moira starting to tell him about the kid before THAT limo ride from doom went kablooey. And then crash boom bang.

 

Oliver, stop riding in limos.

Yep, more repetition.  Thus why I can't understand why people think they won't repeat stuff...they ALWAYS repeat stuff.

 

Then, when she's recovering, he'll use that as justification for not telling her.  He's going to rationalize it away for months, just like he always does, until she finally finds out on her own/from a villain/from TMZ.

[apinknightmare]

Then, when she's recovering, he'll use that as justification for not telling her.  He's going to rationalize it away for months, just like he always does, until she finally finds out on her own/from a villain/from TMZ.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how we're supposed to sympathize with him not telling her for so long. He was just being kind and caring, not wanting to burden her with the truth when she had so much going on in her life! 

[Guest]

I think the proposal will happen because Oliver has just been threatened with the possibility of actually losing Felicity for real (and not just by breaking up but by, you know, death, if the gassing is any indication) so he'll just be so high on the fact that she's alive and they're together and he'll want to show his love and commitment by proposing. I don't think he'll even be thinking of his secret son at that moment. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if he doesn't start to tell her in the limo, once the high and the emotion has had a moment to settle and then of course, DOOM. 

Edited December 4, 2015 by Guest

[Orion]

My point of no return is him proposing.  If he does indeed propose, which seems extremely likely right now, that would make her a stepmother-to-be.  Doing that without telling her the kid she'd be stepmothering EXISTS is 100% turd. 

 

If, on the other hand, he tells her next week, prior to proposing, I will come to this board and eat crow.  I will tweet a sincere apology to Guggie, et al.

 

I will also eat my hat, 'cause it ain't gonna happen.

 

I think going forward we are going to have to look at Oliver as if he separated into into two people in this episode because that will be how the show treats him. The lie isn't informing his decisions. It's just hanging around waiting to be the temporary guillotine on Olicity. 

 

There is the man who is crazy in love with Felicity. The man who has wanted to propose since 4X01. 

 

And then there is Oliver the lying liar who lied.

 

To be honest it has always bothered me that Felicity forgave him so easily at the end of Season 3. He let her believe she was dying. He cut her and Digg out of their partnership. She was emotionally tortured thinking the man she loved gave up his soul for an episode or two.  Digg got to express that anger and betrayal, Felicity never got that agency.

 

That doesn't even get into what happened at the end of Season 2 and that lie/not lie.

 

And if all this stupid story and plot for plot sake turns around and allows her to confront him about all of that. A nice, "How dare you not trust me after all the secrets I keep for you and all your lies I have forgiven," conversation; then fine lie about Baby Mama. As long as he has to earn her trust back and things aren't just handwaved and lampshaded to death once we reach episode 20. I'll live with this storyline.  Unhappily, but I'll take agency where I can get it.

[looptab]

Wendy Mericle said in an interview that he is not going to tell her.  She's going to find out some other way.  Additionally, they've said his lies come to a head "around the middle of the season."  That's not 4.10, it's more like 12-ish...aka February sweeps.  In show time, that's 2-3 months.  He's going to lie to her and visit the kid, piling on more lies, for 2-3 months.  Lie to her face, in their home, while living off her money.  And PROPOSE MARRIAGE to her while lying with basically every breath he takes.

Yeah, I meant more that i'm hoping, hahah. Hope #1 is that he tells her next episode before proposing. Hope #2 is that he tells her in 410 or at least the moment she is able to have a conversation after whatever happens to her in 409. Telling her while she's asleep/in a coma doesn't count. But I know those are most likely not going to happen, and that she'll either find out or be told by someone else. It's just that it's almost Christmas and I'm strangely optimist and prone to believe in people, even fictional characters, haha.

[Coop33]

I'm wondering if someone else in the cast is going to find out before Felicity does.  Maybe while she's injured he'll confide in Diggle? Idk. I really don't want Oliver to tell anyone before he tells Felicity, but I'm worried that like with Felicity in S3, we're never going to get insight into his through process and perspective on all this, which will make it even harder to sympathize with him and get through this terrible story line.  The only people he could talk to are Barry and Baby Mama. Barry isn't crossing over anytime soon and talking to BM would just make everything worse.

[apinknightmare]

Maybe in a fit of guilt when the thinks Felicity might die in the hospital, he comes clean to Diggle about it? I don't want him telling anyone before he tells her, but I could see him doing that. But he probably won't.

[hogwash]

Oliver better stay the fuck away from Central City and that kid after whatever happens in the midseason. If I was the BM (so perfect) and he tried to see my son after that shit went down, I would gut him like a fish.  

 

Anyway, I think breakup 3.0(?) will be the opposite of the timeline 1's contrived-as-fuck breakup. I hope Oliver tells her and they talk about it even if it ends with them breaking up. They better avoid any implications that it's "Felicity vs the kid" thing. It needs to be about the incessant lying. Like the spat in 406 bringing up other issues.

[looptab]

I think he's gonna start telling her all about it in the limo ride from doom, right after proposing. As other have said, to parallel Moira starting to tell him about the kid before THAT limo ride from doom went kablooey. And then crash boom bang.

 

Oliver, stop riding in limos.

Ha, I always thought Moira was going to confess that Malcolm was alive.

But yeah, he said in the premiere he thought his days riding in limos were over, better go back to that, huh?

Edited December 4, 2015 by looptab

[Password]

The limo rides? The boat in Positano? They're all bread crumbs to tell us Oliver doesn't learn from his mistakes.

[apinknightmare]

They better avoid any implications that it's "Felicity vs the kid" thing. It needs to be about the incessant lying. Like the spat in 406 bringing up other issues.

 

I actually do have hope that the blowup will be about the lie not the kid, because it was the first time they had that fight. I think Felicity is going to be supportive of Oliver being a father. She's just not going to be supportive of Oliver being a liar. And she should probably bring up that he can't be a good father and a liar at the same time. 

[bijoux]

Man, this is well done by a fan (posting here because it includes 409 spoiler)...

 

http://glamorous-enterlude.tumblr.com/post/134502206498/arrow-season-25-arrow-s0409

Damn you, Steve. Why do you have to be so affecting after last episode?

  

I think he's gonna start telling her all about it in the limo ride from doom, right after proposing. As other have said, to parallel Moira starting to tell him about the kid before THAT limo ride from doom went kablooey. And then crash boom bang.

 

Oliver, stop riding in limos.

I thought she started to tell them about Malcolm being alive. It's still a parallel.

@apinknightmare, that's exactly how I want thing to happen. I don't want them to be mean but sad and touching since this is the choice we're left with. My knee jerk reaction to the cuddle was hoping that Felicity knows everything and will be playing mind games with him for months. Full on soap gaslighting. But after actually seeing the entire episode, your scenario or some variation of it is how I'd chose for things to go down.