Spoiler Discussion Thread

[kismet]

Did they ever promise that they knew who he was? Or was it just that they promised that they would tell us about who he is? I never got the impression that they were definitely sure they knew who he was only that they mentioned him in the writers room. Then again, I haven't been following the interviews intently from the beginning. I didn't really start following the interviews until end of s2 & s3, when I think they realized the gold mine in FS's back story. So for me after that realization, whatever they discussed before is null & void.

Edited November 20, 2015 by kismet

[apinknightmare]

To me, putting her father in HIVE might be half-assing it. That seems to me like the easiest way to go. I'm probably in the monority though, because I really don't care if we ever meet the guy.

[Guest]

I just wanted something that was about Felicity for a change. Not about propping another hero. Or kick starting someone else's heroic origins. Not about Olicity. But the way they're talking about it makes me feel like they're indifferent and that pisses me off when she brings so much to the show. 

Edited November 20, 2015 by Guest

[Starfish35]

I didn't care whether he was in HIVE or not. I just didn't want him to be DD, because there was no way at all that made sense to me.

I did want him to have a multi-episode arc, not just a one-episode intro like Donna. And having him tied to the season long arc would have been great (as long as he wasn't DD).

I did NOT want him to have any prior connections to Oliver whatsoever. That's why I was always strenuously opposed to the Ivo theory.

[theacostov]

As her father won't be connected to HIVE I don't want to see him this season. It's going to be either rushed or feel like we're being pulled away from the main story line, so hope they put some thought into it and at least make it a multi episode arc. Otherwise, it will definitely be a one episode thing.

[apinknightmare]

I just wanted something that was about Felicity for a change. Not about propping another hero. Or kick starting someone else's heroic origins. Not about Olicity. But the way they're talking about it makes me feel like they're indifferent and that pisses me off when she brings so much to the show.

Doesn't her wording make this seem like it would be about Felicity and her story in a way that having him be part of HIVE wouldn't?

[Guest]

Doesn't her wording make this seem like it would be about Felicity and her story in a way that having him be part of HIVE wouldn't?

 

I don't trust a word they say tbh. All I got from it was that they're only just thinking about her dad now when they've had 3 seasons to come up with ideas. Which means it's going to be rushed. 

[kismet]

I think how WM is talking about to me seems like it will be about FS and not anything or anyone else. Which is why DD & HIVE were not ideal candidates. I think he will be important and I think it will be longer than a one-on / one-off scenario.

 

WM response is giving me nothing but excitement for what they have in store for FS. FS is important to them. Everything in how they have laid the foundation for her character has shown to me that they take her development seriously (unlike some other characters). The only time I questioned it was with the propping of RP. But even then, I think they had the best intentions, they were just blinded by their greed to get a spin-off and their inability to write good love triangles.

[looptab]

I love this, hahah.

 

It's an old interview, same wording that was released several weeks ago with just a tidbit more information. TV Line and E! Do that all the time for their spoilers

I thought she previously said they were always discussing it and were waiting for the right time to introduce him, it seems different from "we're just figuring him out", which to me it suggest they're coming up with the character itself and not just the way to tie him to the story. I could be wrong, though.

 

 I'm probably in the monority though, because I really don't care if we ever meet the guy.

I didn't care either, until they started telling they would write the character. Just say "We'll see" if you have no intention of doing it, is what I'm saying.

[Starfish35]

Roy's coming back! :)

[Guest]

Roy's back! Is it a permanent thing or just one or two episodes?

[theacostov]

I was kind of indifferent to Roy when he was around, but just seeing that tweet actually made me go awww. I actually miss his snarky comments. I would happily replace laurel for him. (Although there are still waaay too many people on this show).

[tarotx]

I definitely want Oliver affected by Felicity's father if the father's more than a one off. Oliver is the main character. Donna was already introduced with no baring on or connection to Oliver until this season when they made Oliver and her text buddies.

At SD comic con there was no read talk of when they would introduce Felicity's dad. Than that kind of changed a few weeks ago. That tells me they decided to bring him on but they are searching for an angst way of introducing him into the show.

And I'm happy about Roy. I figured he would come back after the established Thea and Alex as a thing.

[Guest]

Wait. Are they bringing Roy back to throw him in as an option for who dies? LMAO. This is getting silly. 

[AyChihuahua]

Roy's coming back! :)

My baby!

[apinknightmare]

Even fake deaths are meaningless now!

[dtissagirl]

Huh. So they told David Ramsey that Papa Smoak was HIVE but he isn't? That's the part that's weird for me.

 

But I didn't take what Wendy Mericle said as they're figuring out who he is, but rather how to bring him into the story. And the thing about connecting to a bombshell made me again think surprise kid.

[theacostov]

Wait. Are they bringing Roy back to throw him in as an option for who dies? LMAO. This is getting silly.

Lol didn't even think of that. Yup that seems like them.

[AyChihuahua]

Huh. So they told David Ramsey that Papa Smoak was HIVE but he isn't? That's the part that's weird for me.

 

But I didn't take what Wendy Mericle said as they're figuring out who he is, but rather how to bring him into the story. And the thing about connecting to a bombshell made me again think surprise kid.

Oh god, you don't mean you think like Baby Mama is Felicity's father's other daughter, do you?  Because seriously, dude has GOT TO STOP banging his way through entire families!

 

Wonder if DR is irritated?

[kismet]

Wait. Are they bringing Roy back to throw him in as an option for who dies? LMAO. This is getting silly. 

Figure the one person people probably thought were safe. Although it would be easy to bring him to kill him off again. It might be the cheaper option.

[wonderwall]

I liked Roy a lot... But what even is the point? I hope Roy isn't brought in for no reason other than "YAY ROY IS BACK"...

 

I'm just bitter about Felicity's story being pushed off and becoming an afterthought. There are other characters that need to be serviced, I don't need the show to bring back old characters who are already gone. 

[looptab]

Huh. So they told David Ramsey that Papa Smoak was HIVE but he isn't? That's the part that's weird for me.

 

But I didn't take what Wendy Mericle said as they're figuring out who he is, but rather how to bring him into the story. And the thing about connecting to a bombshell made me again think surprise kid.

Maybe I was just angry-reading and it clouded my brain :) Yeah, that whole "reveal" and "bombshell" made me think about the kid, too.

[theacostov]

I liked Roy a lot... But what even is the point? I hope Roy isn't brought in for no reason other than "YAY ROY IS BACK"...

 

I'm just bitter about Felicity's story being pushed off and becoming an afterthought. There are other characters that need to be serviced, I don't need the show to bring back old characters who are already gone.

I think he's probably coming back to further thea's storyline. Or cause unnecessary angst. Probably the latter.

[kismet]

Oh god, you don't mean you think like Baby Mama is Felicity's father's other daughter, do you?  Because seriously, dude has GOT TO STOP banging his way through entire families!

 

Wonder if DR is irritated?

I doubt it... I always saw DR's comments as more of a trying to show off moment. I don't think they told him more than they told other actors. And if they did it was probably just shooting the shit and nothing on the record.

 

I don't think Baby Mama is going to be linked to PapaSmoak, but I do wonder if she is going to be related to the Hawks.

[apinknightmare]

The kid seems to be coming on way sooner than Papa Smoak, though. I'd be really surprised if Oliver doesn't find out about the kid during the crossover.

Also, I'm curious about the context in which Roy returns because he took the fall for Oliver and...eh, whatever.

Edited November 20, 2015 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

The kid seems to be coming on way sooner than Papa Smoak, though. I'd be really surprised if Oliver doesn't find out about the kid during the crossover.

Also, I'm curious about the context in which Roy returns because he took the fall for Oliver and...eh, whatever.

To cheer up newly-paralyzed Felicity?

I'm really thinking they lied about the season being lighter.  I think from the end of 4.09 on it's going to be all misery again.

I love Roy, but I'll be okay if he's in the grave if he goes out well.

[dtissagirl]

Oh god, you don't mean you think like Baby Mama is Felicity's father's other daughter, do you?  Because seriously, dude has GOT TO STOP banging his way through entire families!

 

Oh, no, I never even thought of that. Ewww.

 

I thought more in terms of tying Felicity's abandonment issues with Oliver finding out he has might have a surprise kid.

 

Also -- if they're back to following the actual shooting schedule -- 411 still films today and Monday. I wonder if Colton's in this one, or he's just arrived early in Vancity for 412.

Edited November 20, 2015 by dtissagirl

[kismet]

Maybe they create a Mayoral pardon on Arrow. They seem to play it loose and free with civic rules, so why not? And this election is making it seem like being Mayor is so powerful and not just a death sentence. Let's give Roy a cleaner criminal record and a new life. It's really like s3 never happened.

 

Mark my words, if Roy comes back a twin. I called it. But I will be so beyond pissed at the show. However, not really surprised.

[dtissagirl]

Roy's in 412:

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/20/arrow-colton-haynes-set-return-roy?hootPostID=a9acc2cc3a9d9c908982936050494d52

 

 

“We are beyond thrilled that Colton will be returning to Arrow this season,” says EP Marc Guggenheim. “It was always our intention to have him return following his departure last season, but it was a matter of finding the right story line to pull it off. That opportunity presented itself in episode 412 and we can’t wait for the fans to see this reunion.”

[catrox14]

Roy! YAY....but Roy!! BOO, because that just vaults him to number one in the "Who's in the GRAAAAVE" pool.

:(

[Guest]

He's probably just back because Thea will be getting serious with Alex and they love their love triangles.

[AyChihuahua]

If he's back in 4.12 and maybe stays for another episode or two, I'm not sure that makes him the dead person in 4.20-ish.  Too much of a gap. 

[catrox14]

If he's back in 4.12 and maybe stays for another episode or two, I'm not sure that makes him the dead person in 4.20-ish.  Too much of a gap.

He could be the one that infiltrates HIVE and ends up murdered and we don't find out until 4.20.

[kismet]

Roy does have the least to lose if they need someone to infiltrate HIVE. Plus he is selfless enough to do it.

 

Still no title on 412 yet, huh?

[AyChihuahua]

He could be the one that infiltrates HIVE and ends up murdered and we don't find out until 4.20.

I don't mean so much a plot gap as an audience attention gap.  He's been gone for awhile now, so I think they'd have to bring him back prior to killing him off to remind the general audience who the hell he is and why we should care.  So if CH is only in 4.12/4.13, that's too long of a timegap for the reminder to stick for a death in, say, 4.20.  If CH is back again around 4.17/4.18, it would seem like a much likelier thing.

[Primal Slayer]

Maybe Roy is in the grave. Wonder if they will have him suit up and expect us to forget Thea is wearing his costume.

[AyChihuahua]

Switching topics a bit, is there a because comics reason for Vandal Savage being tied to the Hawk people?  I get that in the comics they're reincarnated and therefore effectively very old, and that Vandal Savage is even older, but is there anything more than that?  Is he obsessed with Hawkgirl or after her hammer thing or something?  I'm really trying to figure out why the whole crossover, which introduces Savage, is focused on the Hawk people.

[Chaser]

Sigh. I'm hoping that interview was weeks ago and they have Felicitys father worked out. I wanted him to be apart of HIVE this season. I'm so confused at what they are planning. MG said seasons ago they knew who her father would be. I get them changing there original concept as Felicity gained more importance and her and Oliver deepened. DR quote makes me think they already had him worked out for season and then what WM and EBRs said... UGH.

I'm really impatient for the storyline to happen and the more I hear the less enthused I am. Trying to have some faith but I'm getting annoyed.

I wouldn't be surprised if we find out Oliver knew him from his years away. It sounds like he is going to be the big wrench at the end of the season for Oliver and Felicity. Maybe they go full soaps and he shows up at the wedding and kidnaps Felicity.

Happy Roy is back. I hope he has scenes with everyone this time and not just Thea.

[Starfish35]

I will laugh if he shows up and it turns out everyone forgot to mention to Laurel that he's still alive.

[kismet]

Decided to watch the extended promo in light of the recent cancelling of the Xover Event. Does anyone else think the beginning of OQ’s toast is perhaps a positive anvil that next year’s crossover will be OQ & FS’s wedding?

 

I know we talked about it a few months ago. But I think this was the first in show hint that next year’s crossover story will be a Happy Event (of course mixed with typical Flarrow bad guy drama). OQ say’s “I wish it wasn’t just the dark times that brought us together”. What better thing to counter darkness than to have a Wedding be the theme of the next major crossover? I’m willing to put my money behind the bet that 508 will be the Wedding.

[tarotx]

Sometimes it feels like people want Felicity the main character. I really don't care if we get Felicity's father. Ever. Though I know we will. It's what she takes from being abandoned by him and having a single mother growing up that interest me. How it shaped her character. They can tell the story within the already set up Oliver's son storyline. Her comic destiny is to be a step mom :p But also in rather or not she ever wants kids. So the Olicity storyline. Plus in dealing with her mom dating Lance. Felicity also has the PT storyline. Plus she's the hacker of the team. Your girl already has a lot of potential story time. We don't need everything at once. I do hope we get Felicity and Diggle bonding time. It's want's missing in both there storylines imo.

Edited November 20, 2015 by tarotx

[wonderwall]

Sometimes it feels like people want Felicity the main character. I really don't care if we get Felicity's father. Ever. Though I know we will. It's what she takes from being abandoned by him and having a single mother growing up that interest me. How it shaped her character. They can tell the story within the already set up Oliver's son storyline. Her comic destiny is to be a step mom :p But also in rather or not she ever wants kids. So the Olicity storyline. Plus in dealing with her mom dating Lance. Felicity also has the PT storyline. Plus she's the hacker of the team. Your girl already has a lot of potential story time. We don't need everything at once. I do hope we get Felicity and Diggle bonding time. It's want's missing in both there storylines imo.

 

See I don't want Felicity to be the main character. I just want Felicity to be the focus for ONCE because every other character has had focus. Hell, LANCE has had focus and he doesn't have nearly the same amount of screentime Felicity does. 

 

It's all fine and well that Felicity has a couple of things going for her but my main issue is: 

• Olicity storyline is usually about Oliver. Their scenes are usually Felicity helping him grow
• Dealing with her mom dating with Lance isn't a storyline and will probably take up a minute of screentime
• Felicity's PT storyline is hardly a storyline because the last time we actually SAW her doing her CEO duties was in episode 2
• Felicity has always been the hacker of the team but those scenes are generally to move the plot forward and have rarely anything to do wiht Felicity's character. 

 

Yes Felicity has a lot of potential storytime but the writers ALWAYS squander it. That's why I'm upset. Because even though Felicity has a lot going on, none of these things are actually expanding Felicity's character (maybe Olicity is but that's about it?)

 

The thing is, is that the show has ALWAYS made room for Lance Family drama, why can't they make room for Felicity's storyline? We've been waiting for FOUR years for this. It's not wrong for some people to be upset for Felicity to have a storyline that the writers actually develop and sink their teeth into. 

[tarotx]

Well Felicity was just a 4th billed character until she became a part of Olicity. And this season is the first season that she's a leading character. They still have to deal with the Lances though we should be down one of them by the end of the year.

[dtissagirl]

I'm still burned from last season, when Felicity had screentime, but not much of a storyline that didn't involve reacting and/or playing sidekick/guru/prop to other characters. All of this while Guggenheim THOUGHT she had a storyline. It's frustrating as fuck.

 

But I'm okay with her father not being HIVE if he's something else that gets explored as character development for Felicity.

 

I actually wonder if the surprise kid + the abandonment issues will reveal that Felicity doesn't EVER want kids, and that this is something Oliver is gonna have to accept about her.

[wonderwall]

Well Felicity was just a 4th billed character until she became a part of Olicity. And this season is the first season that she's a leading character. They still have to deal with the Lances though we should be down one of them by the end of the year.

 

I get it. She's the 4th billed character. But She's also one of the most important characters narratively. Important characters need to be explored. Not only that but they've been promising this arc since season 2. This is why it's upsetting to see that the writers are doing last minute work for Felicity's arc. One that's been promised for 2 years. One that the fans have been asking for, for longer than that. 

[quarks]

For what very little it's worth - I'd say none - the writers have always claimed that they figured out who Felicity's father is back in season one.  He just hasn't appeared yet, shoring up his image as Arrow's most absentee father.

 

I'm almost hoping for some meta comment on that - "Laurel's father is always here! Making snarky comments, but always here! We can't get rid of Thea's father, no matter WHAT we do! Even Oliver's father returns for the occasional dream sequence, and HE'S DEAD! WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM?"

[apinknightmare]

I think there's some assumption going on that if Felicity's father had been part of HIVE that it would've been a longer arc, and that's simply not true. They could just as easily have made her daddy issues with HIVE a one-off as they could if he was some other guy. I think what Wendy said about it speaking directly to her story is promising (or, as promising as something with this show can be). IMO, her father being directly tied to the main villain would make the story less about her. 

[kismet]

I actually wonder if the surprise kid + the abandonment issues will reveal that Felicity doesn't EVER want kids, and that this is something Oliver is gonna have to accept about her.

I could see that happening. That will buy the show a few seasons of no baby. Which frankly I'm OK with. I don't mind fanfic babies, but they can be such a drag on TV shows. Then when SA is ready to leave the show, FS will probably change her mind, so the show can get an ARROW baby before the show ends.

[dtissagirl]

EBR is the 5th actor billed in the credits, BUT both Barrowman and Paul B get the prestigious "With" and "And" last positions in the credits, which means EBR is the lowest billed actor of them all.

 

Which in practice means jack, though.

[Chaser]

If one billed member leaves, how do they determine the new order?

The thing with Felicity is that whatever storyline she gets (personal or action) is going to have an impact on Oliver. Their relationship assured that. Diggle/Thea are in the same position. I feel comfortable wanting more for them because I know Oliver will still be the focal point of the show.

The Lances don't have that connection.

Edited November 20, 2015 by 10Eleven12