Spoiler Discussion Thread

[kismet]

The quality was actually pretty good.

 

Constantine made it to Grand Central Island too

 

Yes, everyone forgave Laurel because everyone always lies. Now everyone is best friends. That is so stupid and KC kept the same facial expression in all of her scenes, except she did overact that saving Sara's soul one. 

 

They did keep

Sara's kills to thugs and rapists. So I choose to take that as even soulless Sara goes after men that hurt women. And it's not just because she likes hitting people like the other one.

 

I also loved seeing Sara

kick Laurel's ass so easily and take her weapon from her all in about 2 seconds.

Thanks for watching and reporting back! But from your description, I feel like I'll just wait until it airs. There is nothing surprising or earth shattering that I need to see a few days early or have to parse through Twitter outbursts for.

[dtissagirl]

Two things I'm gonna guess right now, especially for the sake of the folks who are gonna need to brace themselves for this:

 

- If you like Laurel, you're gonna love this episode. If I forget the crazy psycho part, and accept that the writers think Laurel's right? This is the best they've ever written her.

- If you're into Laurel/Oliver, this is the greatest episode they've ever had. I say that as someone who loathes the pairing with the power of a gazillion burning suns. I also didn't see anything overly 'shippy there, but I can bet real monies 'shippers will.

[AyChihuahua]

Completely pathetic.  In the episode in which her reckless behavior and stated unwillingness to own up to it GETS PEOPLE KILLED and Thea NEARLY killed, Oliver decides to be a better friend to her.  What the FUCK?

[looptab]

Two things I'm gonna guess right now, especially for the sake of the folks who are gonna need to brace themselves for this:

 

- If you like Laurel, you're gonna love this episode. If I forget the crazy psycho part, and accept that the writers think Laurel's right? This is the best they've ever written her.

- If you're into Laurel/Oliver, this is the greatest episode they've ever had. I say that as someone who loathes the pairing with the power of a gazillion burning suns. I also didn't see anything overly 'shippy there, but I can bet real monies 'shippers will.

Agreed. If you just watch the episode for what it is and forget what came before it, it's not bad at all.

[kismet]

Scene by scene description, this is probably very wonky, bc I was typing as I watched:

Cold open is Sara saving a woman from two guys. She kills the bad guys, then attacks the woman, and speaks Arabic [?]

Constantine is in the flashbacks!

First scene with Parker Young -- his character Alex is the political advisor hired by Thea, and his first advice to Oliver is to distance himself from Laurel, because voters will remember the Gambit/cheating scandal.

Quentin asks Laurel where is Sara, because the reports of the woman attacking people are spreading. She's been looking for her, but hasn't told anyone. She's afraid Oliver will see Sara like Quentin did, "like a thing".

Felicity asks Curtis to analyze Palmer's recording, she thinks that there are weird artifacts on the distortion noise.

DD asks Quentin to plug a flash drive on a server farm outside of the city. Jokes about how Quentin now has two daughters he can threaten.

Oliver and Thea sparring. Thea recaps the entirety of Laurel's connection to her and Oliver, because Oliver is considering Alex's advice.

"This is your overlord Felicity Smoak" on the PA interrupts them. Police scanner reporting the woman attacking people.

Sara is going after women who look like Thea. Laurel gets there first. Tries to immobilize Sara, loses her tonfa instead. Oliver arrows the tonfa, goes all sad voice "Sara". Sara runs away.

Oliver dresses Laurel down.

Flashback. Constantine escapes from handcuffs using a spell, punches Conklin, steal his gun and takes Oliver hostage.

Quentin arrives at the Arrow lair. Good scene with Oliver, says Laurel is "consistent" with her lying TROLOLOLOLOL, that kind of shit this show likes to do by lampashing their problems in dialog.

Quentin is there so Felicity can analyze DD's flash drive. It's an evil computer virus. Quentin doesn't want Laurel involved in this, so --

Lance and Diggle team up! Diggle is pissed Quentin is working with HIVE, but accepts Quentin's explanation. DD had vigilance on Laurel 24/7.

Oliver/Felicty scene. They talk about Sara, and Palmer, and all the people they lost in their lives. It's a great scene. Then they figure out the women Sara is attacking look like Thea.

Thea doesn't pick up her phone bc she doesn't want more of Oliver's judge,emt, Sara breaks into Laurel's place and attacks her. They fight, Thea manages to escape, Sara persues, but Thea hides -- after tumbling down the stairs, it's brutal.

Hospital. Oliver and Felicity are with Thea. Thea explains the bloodlust, how it works, and that she killed the two minions in NP.

Laurel arrives. She and Oliver talk. Oliver has good points, Laurel makes it all about herself, but her face actually moves and emotes and shit.

Flashback. Constantine explains bad guys should not be on the island, does a spell and suddenly THERE'S A HATCHET, OMG it's Lost.

Dig and Lance at the server farm. The virus is erasing files on *people*.

Hospital. Laurel apologizes to Thea. Thea explains why Sara is driven to kill her.

Server farm. Dig sees a file on his brother being deleted. Alarm sounds, Dig wants to stay and figure out what he just saw. Lance knocks him down and tells the security guys who show up he was tracking a "hacker" there, and they get out.

Hospital. Sara is in Thea's room. Laurel is on the corridor outside, Oliver arrives. Intercut -- Thea tells Sara it's okay, she wants Sara to kill her. Sara attacks Thea, Oliver hears it, and they enter the room. Sara throws Thea across the room and escapes through the window.

Arrow lair, everyone is there on the conference table. They figure out the pit brought Sara's body back, but not her soul. They also figure out she can track Thea, so Thea wants to be bait. Oliver objects, but Thea says he's not the team leader anymore, and looks over to Diggle, who says they'll have Thea's back.

Flashback. Underground. Constantine explains the island is ~mystical. He's looking for a magical artifact, that is booby trapped, and Oliver saves him from getting shish kabobed by spears.

DD and Lance. Lance asks about Andy, DD explains HIVE had him killed because he was meddlesome? His monologuing confused me also I'm bored.

Team Arrow setting a trap for Sara at Verdant. Sara shows up. Laurel and and Oliver fight her. Oliver manages to tranq Sara, but now Laurel has a gun and wants to put her down. Oliver doesn't let her.

Oliver calls Constantine.

Constantine expositions on who he is and what he does to Team Arrow. Felicity: "I'm just glad this person from Oliver's past is not another gorgeous woman".

Lance arrives.

THE PEAKCOCK FEATHER IS A JOKE, IT MEANS NOTHING, TROLOLOLOL.

It's Oliver and Laurel going on the mind trip because Oliver volunteers them both. "Laurel, do you trust me? Trust me when I tell you this will work." They hold hands over Sara's body, Constantine does his thing.

Nanda Parbat mind trick. They hear Sara screaming, Laurel runs over, but it's a trick. Constantine uses his lighter as a compass, it's kinda neat.

Sara is in the pit, being guarded by zombie LoAs. The pit is not letting Sara go,but Laurel and Oliver together manage to pull her. These scenes are super duper quick and rushed as fuck.

Back to present time. Everyone's a bit woozy. Laurel hugs Quentin, Oliver hugs Felicity.

Sara wakes up. Lance family hug.

Oliver takes Constantine to the elevator. He's heard of DD. His advice: "leave town while you still can." Dun dun dun.

Thea calls Constantine "yummy", Oliver is grossed out, hahaha. Thea and Oliver talk about keeping secrets, and this scene is really really lovely.

Flashback. Constantine warns Oliver about the dangers of the island, offers a ride out, but Oliver wants to stay and help the prisoners. Constantine calls him a hero. AND THEN HE DOES A SPELL, that removes a tattoo on his arm and transfers it to Oliver's abs! Hello Chinese tattoo! Constantine says it's insurance, and Oliver will know when to use it.

Present time, election offices. Oliver's getting ready for an interview. Laurel arrives, Oliver tells Alex he's not gonna take his advice. She's a friend.

Laurel thanks Oliver, and Oliver says he wants to be a better friend to her, they hug. It's actually pretty sweet. No Consequences Laurel mode is FULL ON.

Quentin goes visit Diggle. He has a top secret file on Andy that DD gave him, and it's NOT GOOD. But I didn't try to read the close up, so no idea what exactly Andy was involved into.

QC. Curtis has drunk about 20 Red Bulls [loool], and he cracked Palmer's message. "What you need to know is: I'm alive, and I'm in trouble"

End credits.

Thanks for reporting back! At least you have a legitimate reason to be wonky in your reporting (transcribing & watching simultaneously is hard)  :)  And, it didn't seem that wonky to me. The writers write wonky stuff all the time and they have no excuse :)

 

PS - Love that you think they are channeling LOST in FB.

Was it a hatch or a hatchet?, because there will definitely be a HATCH on this island

I want to make a serious bet with someone that we will see either a polar bear or a smoke monster by the end of the season. I wouldn't even be surprised if there is someone pushing a button on a timer. Maybe that can be Poppy's job until her demise.

[Sakura12]

I'm going to fanwank that Oliver thinks he needs to keep the delusional idiot that is Laurel closer so she doesn't get even more people killed. 

 

Basically Laurel

showed up at a crime scene with two dead bodies one with a broken neck and the other with his throat sliced and multiple stab wounds and is all like what happened? Quentin says it sounds like Sara with the all the previous vics being rapists and thugs and asks if Sara's still with Laurel. And Laurel's like "oops, nope" Quentin asks why she didn't tell anyone about that. Her reply is she didn't want them looking at Sara like a thing.

 

I guess it was a good episode for Laurel fans, if KC could just emote more it would so much more helpful. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by Sakura12

[wonderwall]

Just a question... Did Felicity lie to Oliver about Ray? Because I know people were freaking out about this a few days ago

[Sakura12]

Just a question... Did Felicity lie to Oliver about Ray? Because I know people were freaking out about this a few days ago

 

No, she told him about Ray in a nice couch scene at the loft where they were holding hands the whole time. 

[tarotx]

I'm not going to use spoiler tags in the spoiler thread but I'll just give my feelings mostly .........

 

Oliver is a changed person. He has decided that he will give Laurel the chance to change. They are now friends. It didn't feel off or wrong to me. But I'm not an actual Laurel hater. KC was even a decent actress-well for her (I think it says a lot about KC's feelings about her shows arc since season 1) . Like I've said before the season, they really are going to make Laurel an old friend more than an old broken romance. She is now in the Tommy role.

 

I think this episode used all the characters well. We got development on all the season arcs. We don't know what Sara is thinking now but she was still used well.

 

And Constantine was used well. And him and Ollie were interesting in the past. It shows that it really is Poppy that has no presence and is bringing her camp scenes down.

Edited October 31, 2015 by tarotx

[wonderwall]

No, she told him about Ray in a nice couch scene at the loft where they were holding hands the whole time. 

Thank yoU! :) 

 

Also, I'm glad you got a Sara kicking Laurel's ass moment and that the show basically admitted she will never be as good as her. Which begs the question... WTF show. Then what's the point of Laurel?!

[dtissagirl]

PS - Love that you think they are channeling LOST in FB.

Was it a hatch or a hatchet?, because there will definitely be a HATCH on this island

I want to make a serious bet with someone that we will see either a polar bear or a smoke monster by the end of the season. I wouldn't even be surprised if there is someone pushing a button on a timer. Maybe that can be Poppy's job until her demise.

 

Hahahahaha, yeah. HATCH. Total English as a second language moment there. Will edit, thanks for the catch. <3

[kismet]

You just know that her storyline will once again be family drama. Also nobody learned anything about the lying and hiding things from one another. 

I think we have to get used to secrets being a consistent narrative device on ARROW. MG mentioned in one of the s3 commentaries that (paraphrase) "without secrets there would be no stories" (paraphrase). I think it can be a dumb and overused story telling device. I think there is also a difference in secrets. There are organic secrets that everyone to a certain extent keeps even in real life. Tnd then there is secret-keeping for plot purposes. I really wish if the writers were obsessed with secrets, they would aim for the organic kind and not the we have to keep this plot going so let's not tell someone whom under every other circumstance we would tell in any other season.

[Starfish35]

and accept that the writers think Laurel's right? This is the best they've ever written her.

Yeah, unfortunately that's the part I can't and never will accept. :(

[looptab]

How do you think this leak will impact things, considering it's the first episode of sweeps?

[apinknightmare]

I thought the confrontation between Oliver and Laurel when he found out Sara was alive was pretty OTT. I mean, he was actually really gentle and not angry when he found out that they had lied about the spa weekend? And he didn't really seem to be all that judgmental about it. 

 

I'm only halfway through the ep, but Thea is killing me with the one-liners. 

[kismet]

Ah but they also buried Sara in her original grave because the world believed she died in 2007. (I believe MG said that in an interview). So who actually knows what the world thinks about Sara being alive/dead? 

I think the world believed that SL was alive. But because of her lifestyle and means of her death, they couldn't make that knowledge public. So the world would believes SL continued to live in 2014. Also, we couldn't have a new funeral or burial plot, because then the world (but more importantly QL) would have to know. And then the writers would have had to come up with a better LL & QL story arc than "Lie to my father for a year" for plot purposes.

[calliope1975]

I so appreciate all the reports on the episode since a) I can't find it in my usual haunts, grrr and b) I may have had a rage aneurysm watching without spoilers. As it is best for my health, now I can ff all the Laurel stupidity and focus on the greatness of Constantine. While Constantine, the show, wasn't amazing, I did enjoy watching, and I'm glad to have Matt Ryan back in the trench.

 

It's just frustrating because I don't know if we've had an episode yet this season where Oliver isn't being ragged on and put down, and yet other characters face no long term consequences for their actions. Whatevs. I don't know why I continue to let it bother me since it's nothing if not consistent. 

[Chaser]

Apparently the music that plays during the last scene with Oliver and Laurel (I think it's the last one), is the same one played with Felicity and Ray.

 

Reading twitter reactions are a little funny. There is the OMG THEY ARE TOTALLY GETTING BACK TOGETHER, there is the FRIENDZONED SO HARD and then there is the WHO THE F CARES ITS CONSTANTINE.

 

Can some send me the link? I'm holding to my policy of not giving Laurel episodes eye balls but some stuff sounds good.

 

How do the screen times shake out?

[Traveller]

Just to add, the scenes involving Curtis has been a delight and he is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters. The actor is pretty good.

[kismet]

Matt Mitovich was on Twitter telling viewers are illogical if they don't give Laurel another chance.  Nope.  This is not S1 or S2.  It's S4, it's too late, not to mention even in the big rehab episode she still has NO CONSEQUENCES, except apparently Oliver yells at her for five seconds before they end the episode as BFFs.  Nope.  Ain't happening, and really irritated about the whole thing.  

So here is my interpretation of Matt based on the use of the word illogical. Illogical means devoid of logic or sense. LL is still on the show and will be for at least the season (if not longer). SO logic would dictate give her another chance or you will just be frustrated and angry with the character because nothing will change and she is not going anywhere soon. It's senseless try to do anything other than accept the character and give her a shot.

 

I may not agree with how he chooses to cope or advocate for LL, but I get his point. Not that anything she or the writers do will help make it possible for us to accept the logic of her character. Because so much of how they write & portray her is illogical at baseline.

[apinknightmare]

Okay, so the other confrontation in the hospital was kind of good but also terrible? Like, yes, she called Oliver out on some hypocrisy, showed some anger that he didn't see her as an equal, was angry about him not telling her he was the Arrow (while standing in the middle of the hallway not using her inside voice, god - THIS MIGHT BE PART OF THE REASON WHY HE DIDN'T TELL YOU). It was nice that we got to hear a little bit about what she was thinking regarding Sara going on a rampage throughout town, but that whole, "I love your family, I always have," (which was good acting on KC's part IMO) was COMPLETELY RUINED BY FOLLOWING UP WITH "I just wish sometimes you'd give a damn about mine." 

 

Ugh, haha.

[Guest]

I don't care how good or bad the episode is, LL still gets away with everything as usual. Not here for it.

[bijoux]

No. There was that big 'welcome home' party for Sara when she turned up alive (the first time).

She also worked as a bartender at Verdant. The world knew she was alive.

[Sakura12]

Yeah, Oliver was pretty calm in the Laurel's an idiot confrontation.

Oliver asked Laurel why she didn't come to him with this and she went with "come to you with what your expertise with magical resurrections or the judgmental look on your face". Oliver. "For help finding her! (you idiot!)" implied but not said

[Starfish35]

Okay, so the other confrontation in the hospital was kind of good but also terrible? Like, yes, she called Oliver out on some hypocrisy, showed some anger that he didn't see her as an equal, was angry about him not telling her he was the Arrow (while standing in the middle of the hallway not using her inside voice, god - THIS MIGHT BE PART OF THE REASON WHY HE DIDN'T TELL YOU). It was nice that we got to hear a little bit about what she was thinking regarding Sara going on a rampage throughout town, but that whole, "I love your family, I always have," (which was good acting on KC's part IMO) was COMPLETELY RUINED BY FOLLOWING UP WITH "I just wish sometimes you'd give a damn about mine." 

 

Ugh, haha.

Ugh indeed. Why the hell should he see her as an equal? Classic Laurel entitlement at work. And hey Laurel, you didn't give a damn about what you were doing to your father or to Sara when you did this, so you don't get to play that card.

[dtissagirl]

The fun part is I can fanwank Oliver in this one. He's happy and in love and looking forward to a great future with Felicity. He's mended things with Dig, he's striving for a better relationship with Thea. He doesn't have money problems anymore, he just delivered a sweet new Arrow cave to his friends, and he seems psyched about becoming Mayor. He also has to face the greatest adversary he's ever met.

 

I would have picked my battles too, and Laurel? Wouldn't be it.

Edited October 31, 2015 by dtissagirl

[kismet]

I'm only halfway through the ep, but Thea is killing me with the one-liners. 

Can you give some context to the tweet below from Matt Mitovitch regarding TQ's one liner

 

Matt Mitovich ‏@MattMitovich 20h20 hours ago

"Chappaquiddick? That game from Harry Potter?" 

Oh Thea, you're pretty. 5:10 PM - 30 Oct 2015 .

I'm guessing it comes during the conversation with the political adviser. I grew up in Kennedy country, so Chappaquiddick is a whole other ball game where I'm from. I know it seriously derailed Sen Ted Kennedy's political chances esp regarding a presidential run. I just didn't think it would be so well known to the writers room to make the script, SC or relevant to a mayoral campaign. I guess I expect that level of political satire/insight from political shows like House of Cards, West Wing, or Scandal - not action/dramas on the CW. However, I could see how the transoceanic global sex cruise of 2007 could be seen as OQ's Chappaquiddick, except SL is now alive again x2 in the present day. Political adviser probably owes Constantine a favor now too.

 

Also seems a little insensitive to the real victims of Chappaquiddick if it was used as a quippy line, but I will have to wait & see - this Matt tweet alone is giving me reason to watch the show.

[Belinea]

@apinknightmare: What is your take on L/O after this episode because I either have now read 'only old friends' or 'way back to romance'. What would you think? 

 

 

I, for , one cannot wait how they episode will be received because from the sounds of it everybody acts in a way that allows Laurel to once again walk away from her stupidity. Wonder if the writers will finally reach their goal. 'For four years ,we've had just one goal. To get people to like Laurel Lance.'

Edited October 31, 2015 by Belinea

[dtissagirl]

I'm guessing it comes during the conversation with the political adviser. I grew up in Kennedy country, so Chappaquiddick is a whole other ball game where I'm from. I know it seriously derailed Sen Ted Kennedy's political chances esp regarding a presidential run. I just didn't think it would be so well known to the writers room to make the script, SC or relevant to a mayoral campaign. I guess I expect that level of political satire/insight from political shows like House of Cards, West Wing, or Scandal - not action/dramas on the CW. However, I could see how the transoceanic global sex cruise of 2007 could be seen as OQ's Chappaquiddick, except SL is now alive again x2 in the present day. Political adviser probably owes Constantine a favor now too.

 

Yeah, that's exactly it. Alex compares that to Laurel/Oliver/Sara.

[Sakura12]

I didn't see any romantic undertones with Oliver and Laurel. KC learned to play it as a friendship. Hopefully it will lead to better scenes if we are stuck with Because Comics on the show. I still don't like that Laurel didn't face any consequences while Sara and Thea did. They are the victims in this, not Laurel!

 

She was doing okay, still an idiot but a tolerable one until she made it about herself.

 

The Queens are not the brightest in the bunch and I'm okay with that. They have other skills that make them useful. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by Sakura12

[kismet]

Wonder if the writers will finally reach their goal. 'For four years ,we've had just one goal. To get people to like Laurel Lance.'

After marathoning s3, I will say that usual after 5 yrs monologue is getting pretty annoying and boring for me. However I love your suggestions of the writers saying stuff. It would be entertaining at least as a DVD extra to have them make quippy intros to the episodes about their opinions, thoughts or real intentions of what they've done.

[AyChihuahua]

So here is my interpretation of Matt based on the use of the word illogical. Illogical means devoid of logic or sense. LL is still on the show and will be for at least the season (if not longer). SO logic would dictate give her another chance or you will just be frustrated and angry with the character because nothing will change and she is not going anywhere soon. It's senseless try to do anything other than accept the character and give her a shot.

I may not agree with how he chooses to cope or advocate for LL, but I get his point. Not that anything she or the writers do will help make it possible for us to accept the logic of her character. Because so much of how they write & portray her is illogical at baseline.

No, it's not illogical to stop giving the character more chances in the fourth season. In fact, it's illogical to keep giving chance

[Edited by mod. Be civil, please.]

Edited November 1, 2015 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[Chaser]

I haven't watched yet but I'm confident that how you view the Oliver and Laurel interactions is dependent on a pre-determined idea.

[Sakura12]

I hope they continue to write Olicity the way they are, mostly drama free. It's refreshing to just see a couple be a couple without all that angst. The couch scene was great because it was just them talking about their crazy lives and the people they lost while holding onto each other. Arrow needs more scenes where the characters actually talk to each other and not about keeping secrets from each other. The Diggle and Quentin scenes were nice to have too. Quentin's redeeming himself which probably means he's the grave and he'll probably die saving Because Comics. Because why not, she is why we can't have nice things. 

[apinknightmare]

@apinknightmare: What is your take on L/O after this episode because I either have now read 'only old friends' or 'way back to romance'. What would you think? 

 

 

I, for , one cannot wait how they episode will be received because from the sounds of it everybody acts in a way that allows Laurel to once again walk away from her stupidity. Wonder if the writers will finally reach their goal. 'For four years ,we've had just one goal. To get people to like Laurel Lance.'

 

I didn't read any romantic overtones, but they do seem to be on their way to being friends. They didn't really hash out their issues though, IMO. They just laid them out, and then at the end decided to be friends again. I agree with whoever said upthread that there was actual warmth between them. They acted like people who had known each other for a long time, although this ep was an incredibly quick resolution of years worth of issues between them. I think part of it too is that Oliver was really...IDK what the right word is - I think @dtissagirl described it well when she said that he seems to be really happy with his life, so he was kind of like mellow about all of this stuff? He didn't seem to get too overly angry about Thea and Laurel lying about their trip to NP, and even though he had harsh words for Laurel, he never really blew up at her. I kind of got the feeling that he was tired of the drama and open to having an actual friendship with her. So, like I said, it didn't read as romantic to me at all, just that they'll actually be friendly toward one another. I think that if someone is determined to believe that the show is going to go the way of O/L again that they'll think this is a start to that and worry about it.

 

I actually liked this ep a lot. I thought last week's was a slog. I do think that the whole Laurel thing was tied up way too quickly and way too neatly, but I expected that, so it's more amusing to me than annoying. They made her look like a complete loon for three episodes for what basically amounts to no reason at all. This is definitely a redemption tour for her character though - that's very obvious. I cannot believe they had her actually keep the fact that Sara had escaped for a WHOLE WEEK though, god. And the logistics of it didn't make much sense to me, since they all gathered that Sara was able to track Thea (she knew Thea was living with Laurel, knew where to find her in the hospital), but Sara's somehow wandering around Pennytown for a whole week threatening/beating people who obviously aren't Thea? More Arrow logic fail. 

 

I liked everyone's interactions this week. Oliver and Felicity had a really nice scene. Oliver and Thea had quite a few great ones. Diggle and Lance were good together. And putting aside that this storyline for Laurel is completely batshit, I liked her interactions with Oliver for the most part. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by apinknightmare

[tarotx]

I didn't see romantic overtones. I don't think anyone did. Some just think that friendship is the first thing that comes back and then he'll cry on Laurel's shoulders when Felicity is killed. I don't think they will kill Felicity and actually when bad [written] characters rebond with the lead, it's usual that character that dies. Not that I think Laurel will die either. Laurel and Sara are just friends of the family now. I think we will get an Oliver friend bonding with Sara as she goes off to LOT. The Lances were the friends of the Queens that leads to Oliver showing growth this week. He's open to see how others see things. Oliver has grown up.

 

Laurel is a character that never has to face consequences past the current episode or 2. It's annoying but she's always off the hook. It's nothing new. Oliver is the one who has grown up enough to understand that his past actions did help create this non trusting Laurel. Laurel gets to be in a good mood now I guess. Maybe? That is her only character growth. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by tarotx

[kismet]

Yeah, that's exactly it. Alex compares that to Laurel/Oliver/Sara.

Thanks! SO bizarre to me that they bring in real life event onto a fake show. It sorta breaks the 5th wall for me, and not in a good way. Most of ARROW (esp now) is not based in reality, so it seems odd to me that they reference an actual real life political thing, where an actual real life person was killed. Its not like Chappaquiddick is a common reference in the pop-culture lexicon like MySpace was when they used it in s1 or even Dr. Who in s3. If they start to do it too much, I'm gonna have to start holding the writers to real life standards and I'm not sure they want that considering how much they make me fanwank reality esp during sweeps or for plot purposes.

Edited October 31, 2015 by kismet

[tarotx]

I really did enjoy this episode All the scenes were good. Even the barely mentioned Felicity and Curtis scenes about Ray. The episode was paced well. Who was the writer and director of this episode? I think the fact that there was no big action scene really helped the look of the action. Laurel and Thea getting their ass kicked(oops originally said killed) by crazy Sara felt right. She could kill them while she was sleeping let alone on a feral kill spree. Sara only killing killers and rapist shows me that a little bit of Sara was still there.

Edited October 31, 2015 by tarotx

[apinknightmare]

I mean, going into it prepared for Teflon Lance, Laurel pulling the gun on Sara and wanting to kill her read so false to me? Like, you were bullheaded and went against every single person telling you this was a terrible idea, you rationalize not telling Oliver about Sara going on a killing spree in another town because you didn't want him to see her as "a thing," and yet you decide at one point it would be better to kill her? I wish she'd been gung-ho SHE'S GOING TO COME BACK throughout the whole ep. We already heard that she had a little bit of doubt about it in the hospital scene with Oliver, but...IDK. It just seemed kind of dumb to me. As did the fact that Sara was miraculously able to only kill bad guys (while still throttling some innocents) - I guess so Laurel didn't have any good-person blood on her hands for what she did? IDK.

Edited October 31, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Sakura12]

I think Sara was in there somewhere because we saw her break a guy's neck with one hand and stab another multiple times. She attacked Thea 3 or 4 times and didn't kill her. She kept choking her and throwing her away like she was fighting herself to not kill her. 

 

The Thea/Sara fight scene was brutal, probably made more so since I care about both the characters involved. 

Edited October 31, 2015 by Sakura12

[bijoux]

Thanks! SO bizarre to me that they bring in real life event onto a fake show. It sorta breaks the 5th wall for me, and not in a good way. Most of ARROW (esp now) is not based in reality, so it seems odd to me that they reference an actual real life political thing, where an actual real life person was killed. Its not like Chappaquiddick is a common reference in the pop-culture lexicon like MySpace was when they used it in s1 or even Dr. Who in s3. If they start to do it too much, I'm gonna have to start holding the writers to real life standards and I'm not sure they want that considering how much they make me fanwank reality esp during sweeps or for plot purposes.

 

Since Tommy mentioned a black president in the pilot, I assumed on a global scale, Arrow was set in real universe. Unless he referred to somebody other than Obama. But then there's MIT and pop culture references. Lost, Lindsay Lohan and the Kardashians off the top of my head.

[apinknightmare]

Also, did we find out from DD that Andy Diggle was getting in on drug trafficking in Afghanistan, and that's why he was murdered? Because he was competition? I tried to read his TOP SECRET military file, but most of the words were blurry. And it seems like DD's army of bad dudes are reanimated military vets?

[Princess Vanellope]

I am tired of the Laurel redemption tours. We've had several. Can it just be over now, please? If you like her, you like her. If you don't, these won't change that. I hope the writers can get that finally, and that this redemption tour is the last, whether she dies or we're stuck with her forever.

Also, didn't Laurel and Oliver have an "I care about you because you're my friend" scene last season? When she landed her butt in the hospital? They still weren't terribly friendly after that. So I have my doubts that the hostility will lessen between them going forward, though I will gladly be proven wrong.

Can it be 409 so we can get back to HIVE and all other manner of things just Arrow? Please?

[kismet]

Since Tommy mentioned a black president in the pilot, I assumed on a global scale, Arrow was set in real universe. Unless he referred to somebody other than Obama. But then there's MIT and pop culture references. Lost, Lindsay Lohan and the Kardashians off the top of my head.

Yes but those are all pop cultures happenings. Those people made themselves part of the pop-culture lexicon. And I usually do enjoy the pop-culture references, it  makes the show feel more realistic. But this reference, rubbed me the wrong way. An innocent real life woman died a tragic death in Chappaquiddick and there is still bad blood about how it was handled. For me its a little over line of the standard the pop-culture dropping reference. The show has never set its self-up like other political show or crime dramas which routinely draw from headlines. I guess I just feel they could have found a less controversial reference, even if it didn't lend itself to a one-liner.

 

SIdenote - Do we think they have to get permission to use those pop-culture reference? And how much does that cost them? I know there are some IVYs that refuse to let their names be used and others are more free to lend the rights for a price.

Edited October 31, 2015 by kismet

[tarotx]

HIVE was addressed. And no matter what you feel about the Lances all 3 of them have been important to the show since the pilot. They are Arrow. Ray was mentioned but that led to a great Olicity scene and a couple of nice Felicity and Curtis scenes.

[apinknightmare]

Yes but those are all pop cultures happenings. Those people made themselves part of the pop-culture lexicon. And I usually do enjoy the pop-culture references, it  makes the show feel more realistic. But this reference, rubbed me the wrong way. An innocent real life woman died tragic death in Chappaquiddick and there is still bad blood about how it was handled. For me its a little over line of the standard the pop-culture dropping reference. The show has never set its self-up like other political show or crime dramas which routinely draw from headlines. I guess I just feel they could have found a less controversial reference, even if it didn't lend itself to a one-liner.

 

I'm sure Chappaquiddick gets brought up in tons of political strategy offices, so that didn't bother me. And what actually happened wasn't made light of - just Thea's misunderstanding of what it was. It was okay IMO.

[bijoux]

You guys are sort of making consider hunting this episode down.

 

 

Also, did we find out from DD that Andy Diggle was getting in on drug trafficking in Afghanistan, and that's why he was murdered? Because he was competition? I tried to read his TOP SECRET military file, but most of the words were blurry. And it seems like DD's army of bad dudes are reanimated military vets?

 

Was it known that Andy was military too? I only remember him bringing Dig into the bodyguard business.

[AyChihuahua]

They are Arrow. 

Fundamentally disagree.

[Chaser]

Regarding KC and SA interacting. I think it comes down to whether or not they are in agreement about their characters and the scene. The scene in 2.14 was ugly. It was supposed to be ugly and they both did a good job. It wasn't 'emmy-worthy' by any means, but it was one of KC's better scenes. Based off of KC's recent comments about Laurel not being the love interest, it sounds like they got on the same page.

 

ETA: Watching the early eps, I didn't think they had chemistry. It was a dull thud. I think it started getting real negative as the show progressed. KC was still trying, but it was like SA totally checked i.e. the mansion scene. You could tell the dude HATED it. But I don't see the same problem when he is playing friend Oliver.

Edited October 31, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[apinknightmare]

Was it known that Andy was military too? I only remember him bringing Dig into the bodyguard business.

 

Yes - DD asked Quentin to go to a server farm and implant this virus that deleted military records. Andy's was one of them. Seemed like DD was implying that Andy was up to no good when he was stationed in Afghanistan.