Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Velocity23]

Arrow season 4 spoilers!

http://tvline.com/gallery/arrow-season-4-spoilers/#!5/arrow-season-4-spoilers/

[bethy]

I'm somewhat concerned that all the happy, bouncy Oliver in the suburbs with its glowy light and sweet domesticity is what will end up being "not as it seems." Maybe Oliver's been whammied and the big shocker at the end reveals DD has put some sort of spell on him. They keep promising lighter, I know, but I'm feeling suspicious. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm somewhat concerned that all the happy, bouncy Oliver in the suburbs with its glowy light and sweet domesticity is what will end up being "not as it seems." Maybe Oliver's been whammied and the big shocker at the end reveals DD has put some sort of spell on him. They keep promising lighter, I know, but I'm feeling suspicious. 

 

Didn't SA say at Dragoncon that the scene between Diggle and Quentin isn't what it looks like? I think they're pretty heavily implying (in multiple interviews) with this "everything isn't as it seems," that there's either mind control or shape shifting type magic involved in things this season. I don't think it has anything to do with what we see at the beginning with Oliver and Felicity. 

[Traveller]

Nyssa seems to be a goner. It's interesting that in the TVline article they have mentioned that Constantine will have to go to the other world and find Sara's soul. So most probably  Sara will be possessed when she comes out in 4X03. Some bad stuff happens and Constantine will bring Sara's soul back in 4X05 but there will be complications hence no further Lazarus pit for others. (Maybe she will have a demon inside her like Vanessa from Penny Dreadful)

 

There's really no separate storyline for Laurel, she's tied to her sister's story. Same repetition with lance and its getting boring. Something bad will happen to Felicity this season in order to establish Darkh as a really evil person and increase the danger ads stakes of the olicity relationship.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Traveller

[apinknightmare]

I wonder what decisions Laurel makes to bring Sara back? Like, at what point does digging her rotting body up out of the ground become an option? Is it an either/or situation? Hopefully whatever happens is dire and not completely stupid, like a "this worked for Thea, maybe I can get Sara back, too" thing.

 

ETA: Although, yikes...this makes it sound like that kind of thing:

 

 

But which character has the crazy idea to bring back someone who's been dead for over a year?! "You probably don’t have to work too hard to do the math on who’s closest to her, who loves her the most and who would be the most invested in having her [return]," the EP replies. "Obviously, her family is first and foremost in that. What’s going to be interesting about it is that even when she comes back," sis Laurel and dad Lance "will have very different reactions to [her] presence."

Edited September 10, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Starfish35]

I'm missing something. Where is this about Nyssa?

[Velocity23]

KAtrina hasnt been on set since episode 3. And she started filming what seems to be a christmas movie in Idaho. Just my assumption.

[Sakura12]

Sara's resurrection will probably stop them from bringing back any more actual dead people like Moira and Tommy. Near death people might be a different story. 

 

You probably don’t have to work too hard to do the math on who’s closest to her, who loves her the most and who would be the most invested in having her [return]

 

So Nyssa or maybe Quentin. Laurel's definitely not closest to her and shouldn't be that invested in her return since she SWF'd her. Logically it would be Nyssa because it seems like Lance won't be too happy with a probably zombie like Sara returning to him. But this show rarely uses logic and it's probably Laurel who had more meaningful scenes with Sara's girlfriend than with her own sister. 

[lemotomato]

 

yes, Green Lantern’s hometown. “There is a nod or two,” Guggenheim teases. “There is a billboard that people will get a kick out of, and there may or may not be a ring in the season premiere.”

I'm probably just unduly influenced by all the Olicity proposal speculation floating around, but I saw this and thought, MG, you're such a troll.

[Morrigan2575]

What really confuses me about the whole Sara comes back in 403 but her soul is back in 405 thing is that she's apparently not in 404 at all.  404 seems to take place in SC and CL/KL didn't film for it.  I have no idea if MM filmed for 404 but it just seems odd. Hey we brought Sara back now lets totally forget about it for an episode and pretend everything is normal then we'll bring her and Constantine back in 405 for Sweeps!

[bethy]

Didn't SA say at Dragoncon that the scene between Diggle and Quentin isn't what it looks like? I think they're pretty heavily implying (in multiple interviews) with this "everything isn't as it seems," that there's either mind control or shape shifting type magic involved in things this season. I don't think it has anything to do with what we see at the beginning with Oliver and Felicity. 

 

I'm sure you're right - just feeling a little paranoid with all the happiness. :)

[AyChihuahua]

I'm sure you're right - just feeling a little paranoid with all the happiness. :)

I kind of think they learned a FEW lessons about last year, and the disaster date in the first episode was one.  I think they'll leave Olicity alone for a little while. 

[Traveller]

We don't know that CL didn't film for 4X04. She was in Vancouver  when they were filming that episode (filming for 4X04 ended yesterday, I think).

[bethy]

Also, I always think about this photo from the X-Files "Je Souhaite" when TV characters bring loved ones back from the dead:

 

 

It never ends well, people.

[dtissagirl]

Caity missed the table reading for LoT 102, maybe she was on the Arrow set that day?

 

I've been wondering if the Lances will keep her resurrection a secret from Oliver in 404, until they realize Sara came back ~wrong, and then they need help.

[Morrigan2575]

It just seems very weird and disconnected to me.  Unless, Laurel/Thea are the only two that know?  But Laurel supposedly isn't keeping secrets from Lance anymore.

 

I'm also curious to see the different reactions?  Did Laurel want to bring Sara back but then regret it when she comes back wrong?  Did Lance not want Sara back (if he even knows) but once she's back he's happy?  Or perhaps it's vice versa or a mix-and-match?

Edited September 10, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

What really confuses me about the whole Sara comes back in 403 but her soul is back in 405 thing is that she's apparently not in 404 at all.  404 seems to take place in SC and CL/KL didn't film for it.  I have no idea if MM filmed for 404 but it just seems odd. Hey we brought Sara back now lets totally forget about it for an episode and pretend everything is normal then we'll bring her and Constantine back in 405 for Sweeps!

Maybe they bring her back but she is goes into a coma or something. She wakes up in 4x05 crazy, Laurel and Lance either go to Oliver for help and he pulls in Constantine or Constantine approaches Oliver.

 

That would allow an episode of reflecting for the Lance while she is in coma. Which would explain the emotional scenes filming between SA/PB/KC. That would go in line with what WM said about Laurel's friendship with Oliver. This is them talking about what happened before the island and putting a bow on the coffin.

 

Normally they do the heavy Laurel episodes in the middle of the season, but I think they are switching that around because of Sara being brought back. 4x03-4x05 look pretty Lance heavy. I'm hopeful 4x06 is a straight up Felicity episode with Mama Smoak and we know Echo filmed and if we don't get a lot of Oliver/Diggle in that ep I will be pissed.

 

Not sure about 4x07 but then you have the big crossover episode/LOT launch. Back half I think Diggle/Felicity/Oliver/Thea ramp up.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm really enjoying the huge amount of work they're having to put in to fix their horrible mistake/jackassery in killing Sara.  I hope Caity Lotz asked for a lot more money to put up with their crap.  I'm also enjoying that LL's story is totally about Sara, since Sara's story last season, even though she was dead, was all about LL.

I think LL is the one to bring her back.  Which is creepy and weird and I don't understand why they didn't just have Rip Hunter do it, since she's apparently a future Legend and obviously needs to be alive for that.  I guess they want to give LL something to do, but digging up her sister's rotting corpse and tossing her in a magical pool is pretty cray cray and doesn't reflect well on LL.  They really make the weirdest writing choices with LL.

I don't know that Sara will necessarily be possessed.  She could just be missing her soul.  Like Sam Winchester.

[apinknightmare]

It just seems very weird and disconnected to me.  Unless, Laurel/Thea are the only two that know?  But Laurel supposedly isn't keeping secrets from Lance anymore.

 

I'm also curious to see the different reactions?  Did Laurel want to bring Sara back but then regret it when she comes back wrong?  Did Lance not want Sara back (if he even knows) but once she's back he's happy?  Or perhaps it's vice versa or a mix-and-match?

 

Maybe Lance doesn't know about it until after it's done? Like, maybe Laurel's trying to be a less shitty daughter now, and doesn't tell him about it beforehand just in case it doesn't work? That way he won't have his hopes dashed?

 

And if Laurel makes the decision to resurrect her, why on earth would Thea go along with that? Unless she doesn't know that she's off, like she has blackouts about it or something? Does she go to NP with Laurel because she has favor with Malcolm? 

 

In addition to hoping that Laurel doesn't dig her up just because she knows about the LP and wants to try it, I also hope she doesn't do it because they need masked help to defeat DD or some other criminal. Actually, I can't think of any good reason to do it, so...I'll withhold judgment, haha.

Edited September 10, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

Normally they do the heavy Laurel episodes in the middle of the season, but I think they are switching that around because of Sara being brought back. 4x03-4x05 look pretty Lance heavy. I'm hopeful 4x06 is a straight up Felicity episode with Mama Smoak and we know Echo filmed and if we don't get a lot of Oliver/Diggle in that ep I will be pissed.

 

 

Perhaps I'm not paying attention but I haven't gotten the feeling that either 403/404 are Laurel heavy.

 

404 seems to be Thea/Lance heavy

403 seems to be evenly distributed.  Although if Sara is resurrected in 403 then it could be Laurel heavy.

405 isn't going to be a Laurel vehicle, she might get a lot of screen time but Matt Ryan filmed for a full week and it appears to be a Constantine/Arrow episode more than a Laurel episode.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Guest]

Yeah, the only thing that I wondering about is how they come up with the idea to dig up Sara's body and resurrect her. Who even thought that and why? There has to be something that prompts them. Thoughts like that don't just come out of nowhere. 

[Chaser]

Perhaps I'm not paying attention but I haven't gotten the feeling that either 403/404 are Laurel heavy.

 

404 seems to be Thea/Lance heavy

403 seems to be evenly distributed.  Although if Sara is resurrected in 403 then it could be Laurel heavy.

405 isn't going to be a Laurel vehicle, she might get a lot of screen time but Matt Ryan filmed for a full week and it appears to be a Constantine/Arrow episode more than a Laurel episode.

I may be mixing up spoilers. I was assuming 4x03 because KL/CL/JB fimed what seems to be Sara's recurrection scene. Though that could be at the end of the episode for the B-plot since we that is JR's episode and he filmed with Oliver/Felicity/Diggle./Echo.

 

4x05 I was thinking for a couple reasons. MG said the Laurel/Constantine have a lot of interaction, Oliver and Laurel seem to as well (hallway take 2). SA said he filmed with MR all week but he only mentioned the hallway scene in regards to Laurel, so its possible that was the only one on one scene they filmed and MG is overstating the Constantine and Laurel screentime.

 

They just finished the 4th right? PB's tweet tagged SA and KC. Did I miss a spoiler involving Thea for 4x04?

[AyChihuahua]

Maybe LL sees how much Thea enjoys her new crazy side and thinks, hey, that's what Sara needs, only waaaaaay worse!

 

I still think Thea's involved, and suggests it because Sara's haunting her in some way.

 

ETA I bet that Guggie is overstating Constantine's and Laurel's interactions.  They do that a lot.

Edited September 10, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

I still think Thea's involved, and suggests it because Sara's haunting her in some way.

 

Could be.

 

The logic leap (if it happens) from Thea being haunted for killing Sara to Laurel bringing Sara back from the dead to make it stop will be pretty hilarious. If she's pissed enough to haunt you, she's gonna be pissed enough to murder you, Thea!

[AyChihuahua]

Thea is the one who said Malcolm was helping the Glades by,  you know, trying to murder everyone who lived there.  I often think there was something very wrong with Moira's genes, at least the ones for intelligence.

 

And SARA would never hurt Thea.  But Sara's ghost or whatever wouldn't necessarily be so nice.

[kismet]

LOL - sometimes this fandom just slays me...

https://twitter.com/rafteryish/status/641773579789574144

When I saw it live, I actually missed the ramekins and I thought they looked a lot like the top of really nice coffee drink. So it could be misleading depending on how you first saw the scene. :) Souffles or Cupcakes... they are both yummy & delicious! The one consistent & definite thing about the scene is OQ had plans for 2 that night not 4. And he does not look that happy about having those plans ruined. I hope the sexy & adorable combo of DomesticOliver does not disappear when he returns to SC, he needs to stick around. Maybe the new lair will have a kitchen & a cozy love den for O/F.

[Chaser]

They mentioned that Laurel has to deal with her choices in regards to bring Sara back. It's odd that KL hasn't filmed at all past 4x03. Thea went after Oliver when she woke up, maybe Sara goes after Nyssa and kills her.

 

OR since they are fans of Joss Whedon, Sara is Buffy and Laurel pulled her out of Heaven.

 

I found the word choice about Laurel's love life kind of interesting. It's rather on the nose. They all but said now that Felicity is Oliver's love interest we have to redefine Laurel's place in Oliver's life. I remember saying sometime during S3, that I wonder if they were going to take away from this season that viewers respond better to Laurel away from Oliver and better to Felicity when she is happy with Oliver. It looks that is what they are doing. That and I think they can't figure out a love interest for her this season because they already have a full plate with guest stars.

Edited September 10, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Sakura12]

It's still possible that KL filmed her scenes for 4x05 earlier (during the filming of 4x03) since she wouldn't be available later.

 

I am interested in who comes up with the idea and why to bring Sara back to life using the LP. Is it, even with Oliver back we are overwhelmed with DD and need another fighter? There is no way they are going to convince LL misses her sister enough to bring her back. She barely seemed to care that she was dead last year. 

[Morrigan2575]

 

They just finished the 4th right? PB's tweet tagged SA and KC. Did I miss a spoiler involving Thea for 4x04?

Almost all the BTS photos from last week, had Willa and PB. Willa filmed A LOT for 404 and so did PB. Most of PB scenes seemed to be with cops, which makes sense since this is Rutina's first episode and I'm guess the start of the Anti-Vigilante Task Force. There really didn't seem to be much indicating a Laurel centric episode.

[Sakura12]

Quentin may have been part of the season of stupid choices, but I will forever love PB saying that he understood Sara becoming a vigilante and has no clue why Laurel became one. 

[kismet]

I'm probably just unduly influenced by all the Olicity proposal speculation floating around, but I saw this and thought, MG, you're such a troll.

Oh the resurrection of Trollenheim! Sadly, I missed him just a little. He's always good for a laugh or a stern head shake :)

[EmeraldArcher]

 

I think your theory is genius (IF they're really going with DD as Felicity's bio dad), although Donna just seems too honest to dupe her boyfriend in this way.  However, maybe DD made himself look like her boyfriend (shades of Uther in Excalibur).  So DD impersonates Donna's boyfriend, impregnates her and leaves, Donna's boyfriend stays with his family for a few years but then DD finds out about the child, and the boyfriend is forced to leave and work for DD. Alternatively, DD has a one-night stand with Donna but erases the memory from her mind.  She gets pregnant.  Both she and her boyfriend believe the child is his.  Then DD finds out about the child, etc.

 

Pros for this theory - it would explain why DD doesn't kill Felicity after finding out that she is who the GA loves. It would also be consistent with the S4 theme of family: biological versus created (bio dad versus 'real' dad).

 

Cons against this theory - if Felicity is DD's bio daughter, then he would've kept an eye on her all these years and would already know about Oliver and the GA.

But, I don't think DD knows. I think the only one who knows is Donna--the PapaSmoak who left only knew he wasn't her father but not who was.

I think the big gotcha moment is when Donna reveals the truth to both Felicity and Darhk at the same time. I imagine it will be in a desperate attempt to save Felicity's life when she's in DD's clutches.

I'm probably reading too much into this, but it goes well with the family theme. Also, it's the only remotely plausible theory I can think of that explains DD being her dad. I still have my fingers crossed that he isn't, though. I don't want that for Felicity At All--but it might be a teeny, tiny bit cool if she has previously undiscovered magical powers, since the show is going there anyway?

(Ducking behind something sturdy)

[apinknightmare]

I don't think that DD actually has any kind of organic powers - I think he probably has some kind of talisman or something that makes him able to do whatever it is that he's doing. 

 

ETA: He's shown with this thing twice in the trailer, so whatever it is must be important. I'm guessing that's where his "powers" or whatever come from? Maybe? 
 

Edited September 10, 2015 by apinknightmare

[kismet]

Could be.

 

The logic leap (if it happens) from Thea being haunted for killing Sara to Laurel bringing Sara back from the dead to make it stop will be pretty hilarious. If she's pissed enough to haunt you, she's gonna be pissed enough to murder you, Thea!

Maybe they think her haunting them is a sign that she is not dead and they need to bring her back?

 

Both LL & TQ can be stubborn & foolhardy, its like them to automatically jump to one of the worst ways to fix a problem. Most people would ask for help or talk to an expert. But those two, (especially since they've been spending a lot of time together, thus making their obstinate/stupid tendencies worse) probably thought let's just raise her from the dead & that will fix the problem. TQ probably volunteered the LP because "my Dad owes me". It was probably not a well-thought out plan. Hence the reason they need to bring in OQ & Constantine to fix their blunder.

[kismet]

I don't think that DD actually has any kind of organic powers - I think he probably has some kind of talisman or something that makes him able to do whatever it is that he's doing. 

I think you might have solved the season long mystery of how to defeat him. :) He and everyone around him probably thinks that his powers are organic. That he is his powers and they cannot be stripped away. Only that's not the case and 19-20 episodes later they figure out that they just need to destroy his talisman. It's classic supervillain defeat plot. Supervillian cockiness combined with hero's stupidity add a little late truthbomb discovery - cue epic fight and close in on DD yelling "NOoooo" as he is defeated.

[Sakura12]

Poor Oliver, he's living this blissful domestic life with Felicity then Laurel and Thea show up at his house telling he needs to come back to SC because some new guy is terrorizing it and they can't stop him. So he does because Felicity urges him too because she misses the good fight. Then he finds out he can't just defeat the new big bad because of his magic powers and on top of that Thea and Laurel probably go to him and say "we kind of, sort of brought Sara back from the dead and she's insane"

 

The honeymoon is over, Oliver. Lol

[dtissagirl]

Poor Oliver, he's living this blissful domestic life with Felicity then Laurel and Thea show up at his house telling he needs to come back to SC because some new guy is terrorizing it and they can't stop him. So he does because Felicity urges him too because she misses the good fight. Then he finds out he can't just defeat the new big bad because of his magic powers and on top of that Thea and Laurel probably go to him and say "we kind of, sort of brought Sara back from the dead and she's insane"

 

The honeymoon is over, Oliver. Lol

 

"I came out to have a good time and I'm honestly feeling so attacked right now."

[apinknightmare]

Also, I wonder if them including Lyla, along with this little blurb, is indicative of her being the floater between the three shows:

 

LYLA

Diggle's other half will "have a new place of employment," Mericle teases. "There are going to be things that happen that motivate her to maybe not return to A.R.G.U.S., but certainly to take up the mantle and come back into the fight." 

Edited September 10, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Starfish35]

That would certainly be my first choice. :)

Which means it's probably not the case. :(

I'm in a pessimistic mood today - sorry.

[kismet]

Lyla speculation -

 

I wonder if Lyla will go undercover at HIVE to help find answers about Andy, as well as to help defeat DD. Part of me always thinks that Andy's death was a major reason Dyla ended their marriage the first time. It would not surprise me that she would not want something similar to happen again. If this is their golden opportunity for her to finally get Dig some answer & closure I think she might do it.

 

I know people want her to be the Floater. And I know she has the credentials to be the floater, but I just don't personally see her in that role or want her in that role. I would rather her go undercover at HIVE than take the floater job. I think she is all about family. Going undercover to help her husband is about justice & her family. Becoming the floater would require her to leave her daughter & husband for periods of time, and I just don't think she wants to do that. One of the reasons she quit ARGUS was to be with them, the floater job would take her away again.

[apinknightmare]

I'd like her to be the floater, and I don't think that kind of job would be any different than what she was doing with ARGUS. She was sent on assignment twice that we know of in the few months after Sara was born, and didn't she quit ARGUS because she thought Waller was corrupt and wanted to set a good example for Sara, not because she wanted to be home more? Seems like getting involved with three teams of heroes is doing just that, IMO.

[Sakura12]

It depends on what the Floater actually does. If they are just there to connect the three shows, then it won't get that huge of a part. She can also do it over the phone or with a Skype like thing. There is also the fact that they established that it only takes a few minutes to get from city to city or to an entirely different country in the Arrow verse. So Lyla can go to Central City and wherever LoT is stationed and be back in time for dinner with the fam.

[HighwayFlower]

How would Laurel dig up her body and even get her there? I'm still thinking Nyssa, behind Malcoms back.

But since they are BFF now, maybe Nyssa gets Laurel to help...

Edited September 10, 2015 by HighwayFlower

[apinknightmare]

I think if the LP was an option in Nyssa's mind, she would've used it when Sara first died. 

[HighwayFlower]

Maybe it always was her plan, but she had to find a way to do it. If Malcom is away a lot, and some of the league is loyal to her, she might have found a chance.

Could be part of why she played nice and bowed...

[Morrigan2575]

I think if the LP was an option in Nyssa's mind, she would've used it when Sara first died. 

MAybe she didn't do it because Ra's forbid it and she respected her father (at the time)?  Now that MM's in charge she doesn't give a f*ck?  

 

ETA: Of course it's totally possible that Nyssa firmly believes that once someone dies, they should remain dead..which I actually respect on a TV Show

Edited September 10, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

The members of the League would've been more loyal to her when she was still heir to the demon, though. It would've been easier for her to slip Sara through then than it is now. 

MAybe she didn't do it because Ra's forbid it and she respected her father (at the time)?  Now that MM's in charge she doesn't give a f*ck?  

 

Maybe, but then where would this fit in? 
 

 

“[sara’s resurrection] very much comes about because of decisions that Laurel makes and choices that Laurel will then have to live with,” Guggenheim says,

 

That doesn't make it seem like Nyssa has anything to do with the decision to LP her.

Edited September 10, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

I thought we were discussing Nyssa being on board/helping with the LP use?

Edited September 10, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

MAybe she didn't do it because Ra's forbid it and she respected her father (at the time)?  Now that MM's in charge she doesn't give a f*ck?  

I still don't think Nyssa will be behind the decision to do it & will not be in support of it. But if she is... this ^^^ will be be mental canon as to why she held off on doing it. Add to that, once she lost respect for her father & was kicked out of NP in s3b logistically she had to wait until she could safely gain access to the pool which is why there is a delay.

 

ETA - The resurrection of SL has the LANCEs trying to do good in their mind for personal reasons but screwing everything up per usual all over it.

Edited September 10, 2015 by kismet

[HighwayFlower]

I can't see how Laurel could do it unless either Nyssa or Malcolm was on board. I can't see Malcom agreeing to bring back a woman he killed who would probably want revenge. Especially since he know the pit messes people up.