Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

MG said "familiar" and my immediate thought was Thea's loft, too. But what if it was Maseo and Tatsu's home from last season, which I think was actually Laurel's apartment refurbished? New drapes, new furniture, make it a little bigger, add a bedroom, voila! New digs for Oliver and Felicity. They can pretend it's an actual home instead of an apartment if they think the CEO of a multibillion-dollar company doesn't live in a regular apartment.

 

Yeah, at this point he could mean familiar because it's a place we've seen before—like Thea's, or...god forbid, Ray's—or because it's a familiar place repurposed to look like another one, like Laurel's place was. I'm not sure if her apartment was Maseo and Tatsu's place, but it was definitely the room Oliver woke up in when he first got to Hong Kong at the end of S2 - it was in some kind of commentary.

[Starfish35]

Oh no...hahaha. Terrible thought, but it could be Ray's. I mean, the guy's supposedly dead.

[Morrigan2575]

Is it safe to say that the Constantine episode was the announcement that was supposed to make Arrow fans happy?

[statsgirl]

Maybe those that watched Constantine.  I tried it but it was too violent and too scattered for me.

 

Re living arrangements:  I don't think it could be the penthouse of the PT building since that just got blown up, and no one would want to live there while it's undergoing construction. 

 

A side thought -- if the old lair was at PT, and it got blown up, where would Diggle, Laurel and Thea be working from?  The loft?

 

Roy's house would be available, wouldn't it, since it was owned by his mother rather than rented?  But who would want to live there in the Glades?

 

I can't imagine a protracted residence in the basement of the foundry since Felicity has already said that it's damp and cold and uncomfortable, but it would be funny if that's where they stayed when they first got back since she already bought him a bed.  Presumably the Queens still own it?  Or did Isabel snatch it away and then that was just dropped for s3?

 

But it's most likely going to be Thea's loft. Maybe they'll mine it for the comic value of Three's Company.

Edited August 12, 2015 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

A side thought -- if the old lair was at PT, and it got blown up, where would Diggle, Laurel and Thea be working from?  The loft?

 

I figured the new lair TPTB talked about would be one that Diggle, Thea, and Laurel worked out of while O&F were gone.

 

 

Presumably the Queens still own it?  Or did Isabel snatch it away and then that was just dropped for s3?

 

Isabel got it, but then Thea bought it back with Malcolm's money early in S3.

[Morrigan2575]

I wonder if the O/L interaction in 405 is adversarial? I can see them arguing over bringing Sara back and all the chaos that follows.

[Delphi]

Yeah, at this point he could mean familiar because it's a place we've seen before—like Thea's, or...god forbid, Ray's—or because it's a familiar place repurposed to look like another one, like Laurel's place was. I'm not sure if her apartment was Maseo and Tatsu's place, but it was definitely the room Oliver woke up in when he first got to Hong Kong at the end of S2 - it was in some kind of commentary.

If I recall correctly; they split Laurel's apartment in half and gave one half to the yamashiros. I think a fan asked MG on tumblr last season why we didn't get to see more of Laurel's apartment and that was the response.

[Chaser]

It wouldn't surprise me. He saw how Thea came back and she was only mostly dead. Plus I doubt Oliver is going to trust this magic introduced, at least right away.

When SA was talking about Oliver's relationships he mentioned things were good with Felicity and Thea but he said something about some things with Laurel. It could very well be Sara resurrected things.

I don't anticipate this interaction being big or any type of bonding. I'm thinking it's all about Sara.

[Sakura12]

I'm thinking it's all about Sara.

 

As is most of Laurel's character. Proving once again how unnecessary she is. 

 

I'm thinking Laurel brings Sara back or wants to and Oliver knowing Sara better than her own sister knows that Sara would not want that. If she's finally at peace they should let her have that. 

Edited August 12, 2015 by Sakura12

[Chaser]

I get a kick out of it to be honest. They are even bringing in a hyped up guest star for Sara.

[Morrigan2575]

As is most of Laurel's character. Proving once again how unnecessary she is.

I'm thinking Laurel brings Sara back or wants to and Oliver knowing Sara better than her own sister knows that Sara would not want that. If she's finally at peace they should let her have that.

That's pretty much what I was thinking as well. I don't think Oliver will know until it's too late. Like Laurel approaches Oliver about using the LP on Sara. Oliver tells her no and she enlists Nyssa's help to go behind Oliver's back. I say Oliver because I'm assuming Oliver/Thea are the main link to Malcolm.

After Sara's back they argue over it because of the fallout which brings Constantine to town. If they keep true to the character from the show, Constantine will have some heavy words for Laurel about what she's done.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

I don't even think Laurel would bother going to Thea or Oliver to get to Malcolm. I think she'd go straight to him, or contact him through Nyssa. I think she'll do it without him knowing at all.

[Angel12d]

I actually find it quite funny/interesting how important Sara is to the narrative. She was a big part of s2, her death set the tone and consequences for s3 and now her resurrection is a huge thing in s4. Are we sure they can't just make her the Black Canary already? Asking for a friend.

 

I absolutely think O/L are going to clash over Sara. SA did say they would have some issues and I can see that being one of them. I also think Laurel would go straight to the source, or through Nyssa. Oliver probably lost Laurel's trust throughout s3 and say what you want about Laurel but she is kind of relentless. If she wants to do something, she'll just go ahead and do it.

[Morrigan2575]

I don't even think Laurel would bother going to Thea or Oliver to get to Malcolm. I think she'd go straight to him, or contact him through Nyssa. I think she'll do it without him knowing at all.

Very possible.

[apinknightmare]

I don't know why Laurel would even mention considering it to Oliver - it's not like he has control of the LP or has ever been in it. If anyone should be able to convince her not to put Sara through that, it should be Thea - who is supposed to have issues from her "resurrection" over the break, and Laurel's been working with her in that time. But obviously that's not going to be an issue since it seems like Laurel goes through with it anyway, haha.

Edited August 12, 2015 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

I really hope the writers don't go the selfish route with Laurel in regards to bringing Sara back. Because we all know that bringing people back from the dead has its consequences. I'm pretty sure they will go down the "I don't care about the consequences or if Sara is going to suffer but I need my sister back and this is the only way to get her back" route even though it's totally not right, but in the end she'll be a hero because "yay! Sara's back!!!!!" -_-

[Angel12d]

My first thought was that maybe Quentin was going to be involved in bringing Sara back and he made a deal with the devil (Damien Dahrk) to make it happen. But now I'm not so sure. It definitely seems like it's Laurel who is the driving force, which makes sense, but I wonder what's going to happen to even make that a possibility. Like who will actually say 'Oh, let's bring Sara back from the dead today!' Something has to happen to get them to that point. 

[statsgirl]

The last time Laurel asked Oliver for something (to train her), he turned her down flat and said Sara wouldn't have wanted it.  The Laurel in season 3, the one who called in the riot squad and went out vigilanting even before she'd had any real training, would consider asking Oliver for anything to be beneath her.  She'd go straight to her new BFF, Nyssa.  Story-wise, it would be more interesting if Nyssa said no, the consequences are too great but she's probably going to agree to it to get Sara back.

 

I am interested in the fall-out though.

 

Would Constantine be involed in getting Sara back, or in dealing with the consequences of how they do it?

[SmallScreenDiva]

Would Constantine be involed in getting Sara back, or in dealing with the consequences of how they do it?

 

I imagine the fallout. I can't imagine Constantine willingly bringing somebody back from the dead (I'm judging from what I saw in the TV series, no idea about the comics version). 

[Morrigan2575]

I imagine the fallout. I can't imagine Constantine willingly bringing somebody back from the dead (I'm judging from what I saw in the TV series, no idea about the comics version).

Yeah, based on the TV Show, no way in hell Constantine would bring Sara (or anyone) back from the dead. He's very anti-ressurection magic because it comes at a cost, usually taking a life for a life.

[NumberCruncher]

Yeah, Constantine is usually brought in to clean up the unworldly hijinks that have been unleashed. I agree that Team Arrow is going to get in over their heads and he'll show up to help.

Edited August 12, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[Angel12d]

Well, Sara's been dead for a year so I can't imagine her resurrection will go like Thea's did, with just some temporary confusion (although I know she's going to have some after-effects also, she can still function like normal). I can see Constantine maybe fixing the mess.

[apinknightmare]

In the 2.5 comics there was something to do with there being consequences for using the Lazarus Pit without permission, and that we'd see what they were on the show. I thought that was supposed to be in S3, but no one ever used it without permission, so I wonder if Nyssa, Malcolm, or whoever she asks says no, and she just puts her in there anyway? Maybe that's where Constantine comes in?

[Chaser]

How would Laurel get Sara's body there without help? She would need Malcom or Nyssa. I can't see Malcom bring her back and Nyssa should know better. Of course, plot may dictate otherwise.

[apinknightmare]

She wouldn't necessarily need help - she got Sara's dead body down into the lair on her own. She can take her to NP on whatever weird-ass charter service they all seem to use, and Nyssa and Malcolm could tell her no, then she could just throw her in there when no one is looking, haha. I'm not saying it would go down like that, just a thought.

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, this show has proven it truly does not care about logistics when it comes to things like this. But I'd still think she'd coordinate with someone else to make this happen, if only because otherwise that's a series of boring scenes. I'm guessing someone will be on her side here, probably for nefarious reasons.

[apinknightmare]

I can't imagine Nyssa or Malcolm agreeing to it. They've both seen what the LP can do to people, and Malcolm was opposed to using it on Thea when she wasn't even dead yet. Not that I think Malcolm gives a shit about Sara, but he cares about himself a whole lot, and I doubt he'd want a crazy pants woman he drugged Thea to kill running around out there. Diggle would for sure be against it, and so would Thea. Anyone outside of those people that know about the League, Laurel should be suspicious of their motives. 

 

The basis of this is going to be so stupid, I can tell. What could be so bad that they specifically need Sara back? Surely someone would warn Laurel that Sara would come back not right, and wouldn't they worry about what she'd do to Thea, since they all know that she killed her? I don't care about Sara returning, but I am interested in how they do it.

Edited August 13, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

That ask Guggenheim answered about how "the Tommy and the Moira of it" will be addressed makes me think that they're gonna approach Sara's resurrection as something ~wrong~. Or at least, something that should NOT be repeated, because it has a shit ton of consequences.

[Sakura12]

That's why I think it would be best if they had Rip Hunter be the one to bring her back. He would at least have a reason for the world needing her alive. Because the future needs the badass Canary to survive and become a team with bunch of other people. 

 

If Laurel does it, no matter what they say she would be doing it for purely selfish reasons, like thinking the way to repair her relationship with her father would be to bring back (his favorite) daughter. I don't think I'd believe that she misses her so much. We barely so them interact and to me it looked like they put up with each other because they had to because they were family. From what they showed us they never seemed like they liked each other all that much. 

 

I do wonder how KC feels about this. They killed Sara so she could suit up. Their whole excuse for killing Sara was because they couldn't have two Canaries running around. But somehow now that's changed and they can have two Canaries running around. Bringing her back looks like she didn't work out like they planned so they are bringing Sara back while also keeping her around because of contracts and comics. 

 

I'm sure the consequences are going to be horrific. Most of the time you need a life for a life. Or something else hitched a ride back with her. Whatever happens Sara is going to be even more messed up than before. (so thanks sis, for giving me even more nightmares and emotional scarring).

Edited August 13, 2015 by Sakura12

[dtissagirl]

Caity Lotz is in town for 403, right? Maybe Sara comes back in 403, then she's ~evil~ in 404, and Constantine fixes whatever's wrong with her in 405.

Edited August 13, 2015 by dtissagirl

[foreverevolving]

Yeah, based on the TV Show, no way in hell Constantine would bring Sara (or anyone) back from the dead. He's very anti-ressurection magic because it comes at a cost, usually taking a life for a life.

 

There's a very bad thought in my head right now regarding the life for life thing and it involves buckles.. just sayin.. if anyone wants to fanfic it be my guess.

[statsgirl]

If Laurel does it, no matter what they say she would be doing it for purely selfish reasons, like thinking the way to repair her relationship with her father would be to bring back (his favorite) daughter. I don't think I'd believe that she misses her so much. We barely so them interact and to me it looked like they put up with each other because they had to because they were family. From what they showed us they never seemed like they liked each other all that much. 

 

I do wonder how KC feels about this. They killed Sara so she could suit up. Their whole excuse for killing Sara was because they couldn't have two Canaries running around. But somehow now that's changed and they can have two Canaries running around. Bringing her back looks like she didn't work out like they planned so they are bringing Sara back while also keeping her around because of contracts and comics.

Bringing Sara back so her father would forgive her makes sense if it were at the end of last season but it will have been 9 months since he found out. Could Quentin stay mad at her that long?

 

I don't want to feel bad for KC so I hope that with Sara being on the other show and now being the White Canary, it will work out.  Maybe they will tell her that the Canary is such an iconic figure, they needed one for each show.

[Morrigan2575]

Caity Lotz is in town for 403, right? Maybe Sara comes back in 403, then she's ~evil~ in 404, and Constantine fixes whatever's wrong with her in 405.

The resurrection is in 405. Sure it's not 100% confirmed that it's Sara but I can't really see them teasing joeschmo getting% ressurected and bringing in Constantine for a nobody character.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

I know Pedowitz said someone gets resurrected in 405, but did Guggenheim confirm it? Because if anything, why would Caity Lotz be in Vancouver 3 weeks in advance?

[Sakura12]

CL is Vancouver now, I can't imagine they are doing a table read for 4.05 yet. Maybe she's in flashbacks for ep 4 or we're going to see them dig up her decaying body. 

 

I also think a real horrible consequence for Sara's resurrection would be is if now she can't die. She'll have to live with her pain and suffering for eternity, while also having to know that everyone else will eventually die and she'll keep on living.

[dtissagirl]

They still have 3 more days of shooting 403, there's no way a table read for 404 has happened yet, much less 405.

Edited August 13, 2015 by dtissagirl

[Chaser]

Maybe Thea starts hallucinating Sara as a delayed side effect of the LP.

I can't see it not being in 4x05. It's to perfect of a set up with Constantine.

[Sakura12]

I could see Thea having a headSara following her around, that would make her crazy seeing the woman she murdered. 

 

According to this article, Constantine is bringing back Sara. 

 

EP Wendy Mericle said at the Television Critics Association press tour that Constatine’s guest appearance on Arrow “was born more out of the storyline for Sara Lance. We needed someone to come in and help bring her back. He felt like the most exciting possibility, and we’re just thrilled to get him. He brings such a different element to the show.”

 

http://www.hypable.com/arrow-season-4-constantine-sara-lance/

Edited August 13, 2015 by Sakura12

[Starfish35]

Even for this show, resurrecting Sara and "fixing" her in the same episode sounds like a little much. I think it's more likely that Pedowitz got things mixed up. dtissagirl's timeline sounds more logical to me, especially if CL is in Vancouver right now.

I also think a real horrible consequence for Sara's resurrection would be is if now she can't die. She'll have to live with her pain and suffering for eternity, while also having to know that everyone else will eventually die and she'll keep on living.

I don't know if that's where they're going with this, but that would fit with what CL said about her character being crazy and reckless because she doesn't fear death anymore.

[Chaser]

Could she be there for some stunt training or something?

I hope he interacts with more than the Lances and Queens. I would love Diggle's reaction and I want everyone to interact with Felicity.

[apinknightmare]

I could see Thea having a headSara following her around, that would make her crazy seeing the woman she murdered. 

 

According to this article, Constantine is bringing back Sara. 

 

http://www.hypable.com/arrow-season-4-constantine-sara-lance/

 

 

Yeah, they're directly quoting WM here, and MP said that there would be a resurrection in this ep, so I think it's safe to bet that she's coming back in 4x05, regardless of what she's there for now. 

[Starfish35]

That's confusing. Because what WM said sounds like Constantine is helping to bring her back, but what MG said sounds like he's dealing with the consequences of bringing her back. Two different scenarios.

[Chaser]

She could mean bring her back in a general way. As in apart of the arc, not the actual act of bringing her back.

[apinknightmare]

That's confusing. Because what WM said sounds like Constantine is helping to bring her back, but what MG said sounds like he's dealing with the consequences of bringing her back. Two different scenarios.

 

It depends on what "help bring her back" means. Bring her back to life? Bring her back to herself? I don't know. If it's bringing her back to life, then there's that quote from WM and MP mentioning a resurrection in this ep compared to MG talking about him dealing with the consequences of it.

Edited August 13, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Starfish35]

I don't know. Maybe it's just because I guess I thought that Sara's resurrection and the related fallout would be a multi-episode arc, not just a one-off. *shrug* Oh well. One less reason for me to be excited about this upcoming season. :(

Edited August 13, 2015 by Starfish35

[tarotx]

Yeah maybe Sara's body is resurrected in an early episode but she's not really Sara Lance. Just the trained assassin. Maybe out for Thea's blood.In a way she'll kind of be like a BTVS Vampire version of herself. Looks like Sara but doesn't have her soul. Perhaps she will need to be taken out of Heaven or rekilled. Of course Sara will get her soul back or whatever needs to happen to Truely bring Sara back. Constantine will probably be truly pissed at Laurel. Will probably bring up maybe she wanted Sara back to suffer. Perhaps they will go into the Lance sister dynamic that way.

And I wonder if Maybe Constantine will be in both the present and Flashbacks.

[Sakura12]

I'm still laughing that once again they are making Sara an important part of the narrative. They are bringing in a special guest star to either bring her back from the dead or bring her back to herself. If someone had no knowledge of comics watching this would make it seem like Sara's the more important one. 

[calliope1975]

As others have stated, it would be really weird if Constantine helped bring Sara back. He knows how shitty it is to deal with dark forces, and I can't see him agreeing to bring Sara back just because Laurel/Nyssa/whomever wants her back. I can see him dealing with the aftereffects, though. I'm very curious how he arrives in town - i.e. who knows him and about what he does. 

[Chaser]

I'm more curious about the scene with Felicity and JR's character now that we know Felicity isn't being damseled yet.

Maybe Sars gets resurrected in 4x03 but she is comatose or way out of it for an episode. Then they bring in Constatine in 4x05. She may even be kept hidden from everyone but Laurel. I'm guessing that based off of MG pointing to 4x05 for Oliver and Laurel interaction.

[wonderwall]

Unless Laurel does what she does best and blackmails Constantine somehow??? O_O