tangerine95 July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Yeah this show isn't exactly subtle if they were setting them up to get back together we would know it right away. IMO they're not really distancing them from the toxic history.The only time their relationship has been brought up has been in a negative light. Link to comment
Chaser July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I don't think there is much point trying to figure out endgame on the romance. I personally am not seeing anything in-show to make me think they are going back to that direction. I'm not seeing anything out of show to hint at that either (i.e. press/MG on tumblr). That being said, anything could happen. I do think that Oliver and Laurel will be nicer to each other this season. Oliver will be in a better place. Laurel will be Black Canary. They will work together on the team. They probably won't be at odds as much (I still think there will be some fighting because their personalities clash). I am prepared for that, but I'm not going to try and read anything into it. I'm just going to fast forward. I agree with others. The show doesn't do subtle. If they were taking it back, you are going to see the piano drop. 8 Link to comment
AyChihuahua July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I am totally comfortable that they're not going back to L/O. If the show goes more than six seasons, and EBR wants off, they might do something to Felicity, but even then they wouldn't go back to L/O. They'd bring in a new actress at that point. (I really don't think they'll go more than six seasons, though, bc I think SA is going to want to try for movies.) I also speculate that everyone except SA was on a three-year contract, probably with three unilateral options for the studio. (I know Colin Donnell said he was on a six-year contract, but a lot of people would consider a three-year contract with three one-year options to be a six-year contract...yes I am a contracts attorney.) I am quite sure EBR is now locked in for the full six years of the planned run, but I think it's entirely possible, especially with the huge outcry and subsequent return on the spinoff when they killed Sara, that KC is just working on an option year. She has to be expensive, and if she doesn't bring in viewers/drives away viewers, the studio/network wouldn't want to keep paying for her. So it is POSSIBLE, although probably not likely, that she could still be off the show at some point. Overall I don't care a great deal either way. I am positive, personally, that they won't put them back together, and I don't actively hate Laurel like I do Ray the Cane Toad. 2 Link to comment
tangerine95 July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Laurel's worse then Ray for me because she's been awful for 3 years now.With Ray at least we know he'll be off the show by midseason. I think there might be a chance KC leaves.I mean how long can they keep paying her a second billed actress salary when there are two characters with more screentime then her and she misses at least 3 episodes a season?Now that she's BC they're out of excuses for why her character is not working. I still can enjoy the show even with her but its hard not to imagine what it could be like with that dead weight lifted and all that screentime freed up for more interesting characters. 4 Link to comment
Starfish35 July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Did she miss three episodes last season? I know she did in S2, but I thought in S3 she was only out of 307 (the Cupid episode). Link to comment
tv echo July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 They could still give Laurel a love interest who turns out to be one of the new villains. 1 Link to comment
dtissagirl July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 (edited) I guess I just can't worry about L/O creeping out again before I see hints in-text. And then there's also the hilarity that imo, KC will never ever stop playing Laurel AS a love interest, so there might actually be hints coming from her in-text... which means I'll have to be looking for hints from Stephen and Oliver and LOL NO. Edited July 31, 2015 by dancingnancy 8 Link to comment
Nagevs July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I know I'm in the minority, but I still don't think the EPs have given up on Oliver & Laurel yet. I’m with you in that minority, the EP’s are comic book fanboys at heart after all. I've always felt that killing Sara the way they did was a foretelling of Felicity’s eventual ‘fate’ on the show (although that may be off the table now given the reaction to Sara’s ‘death’). It’s one of the reasons that I quit watching the show after episode nine and only returned from episode 20 onwards after seeing spoilers. I do plan on watching the start of next season, but I'm not as invested as I was this time last year, and I'll never watch it live again, such is my disdain for these showrunners. So if it does look like it’s once again moving towards Oliver and Laurel I won't be witness to any end of episode ‘lunges’. For me the EP’s going back to Laurel and Oliver now would only be because of a ‘because comics’ reason as their romantic history on the show and the actors’ chemistry definitely does not support it. As a result of that I wouldn't be interested in any of their future tv projects. 1 Link to comment
tangerine95 July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Did she miss three episodes last season? I know she did in S2, but I thought in S3 she was only out of 307 (the Cupid episode). I also counted the ones she was in for like a minute like the crossover and the Fallen. Link to comment
Chaser July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I am totally comfortable that they're not going back to L/O. If the show goes more than six seasons, and EBR wants off, they might do something to Felicity, but even then they wouldn't go back to L/O. They'd bring in a new actress at that point. (I really don't think they'll go more than six seasons, though, bc I think SA is going to want to try for movies.) I also speculate that everyone except SA was on a three-year contract, probably with three unilateral options for the studio. (I know Colin Donnell said he was on a six-year contract, but a lot of people would consider a three-year contract with three one-year options to be a six-year contract...yes I am a contracts attorney.) I am quite sure EBR is now locked in for the full six years of the planned run, but I think it's entirely possible, especially with the huge outcry and subsequent return on the spinoff when they killed Sara, that KC is just working on an option year. She has to be expensive, and if she doesn't bring in viewers/drives away viewers, the studio/network wouldn't want to keep paying for her. So it is POSSIBLE, although probably not likely, that she could still be off the show at some point. Overall I don't care a great deal either way. I am positive, personally, that they won't put them back together, and I don't actively hate Laurel like I do Ray the Cane Toad. Emily started as recurring in S1 before going regular. Do you know if that would be one contract to two? I'm so curious about the contracts. I would love to get my eyes on those. Link to comment
AyChihuahua July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Not watching live seems like a smart choice. I quit watching entirely after 3.9, watched the finale live, will probably watch the premier live, and then it's Hulu all the way. I want to know if something stupid/maddening happens ahead of time. Not iTunes or Amazon, bc I ain't payin' for this show probably ever again after the dreck that was S3. 1 Link to comment
tangerine95 July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I guess I just can't worry about L/O creeping out again before I see hints in-text. And then there's also the hilarity that imo, KC will never ever stop playing Laurel AS a love interest, so there might actually be hints coming from her in-text... which means I'll have to be looking for hints from Stephen and Oliver and LOL NO. Oh that will be happening,she's still playing Laurel as in love with Oliver hoping something comes of it.Stephen's the one we should be looking at.It would be kind of funny to see him try to sell Oliver in love with Laurel again.And even funnier to see him promote that. 2 Link to comment
Angel12d July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 It's really bad that the only reason why O/L might still be on the table is because of the comics. Nothing on the show remotely even hints at that, especially where those two characters are in their lives and everything that has happened between them. Not to mention the fact that Oliver is massively in love with Felicity. He is gone. IMO, it would be a huge moment of character regression if Oliver suddenly started having feelings for Laurel again. But this show has proven that sense and logic and well written characterization don't really go hand in hand so I guess we'll see. But yeah. The minute O/L start spending more time together and confiding in each other, I'd say they're setting things up. Until then, I think we're ok. 11 Link to comment
AyChihuahua July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 (edited) Damnit, this forum ate my post. Basically, re contracts, I am not an entertainment contracts attorney, BUT, there's a decent chance EBR wasn't working under a contract at all when she was only recurring. Once they decided to make her a regular, and ESPECIALLY once they decided to make Felicity Oliver's lobster, they would have locked her in for the planned run of the show. As an aside, contracts for a specific person are tricky, because involuntary servitude is illegal in the US. They're only really allowed for people with unique skills and performers. Plus, you can almost always buy your way out of a contract if you're willing to pay damages. So she's locked in, I'm sure SA is locked in, but if either of them (or anyone else on the show) became super famous and was willing to pay, they could leave at any time. Their contracts probably have liquidated damages clauses in the millions, but it's at least possible. Edited July 31, 2015 by AyChihuahua 2 Link to comment
catrox14 July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Do the contract laws they work under change since they film in Canada and many in the cast are Canadians. Like the "involuntary servitude" thing you mentioned? Link to comment
AyChihuahua July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I don't know Canadian law, but the contracts almost certainly have a choice of law clause that is not Canada. Just because it's filmed in Canada doesn't mean, at all, that the laws of Canada apply to the contracts. They most likely are to be interpreted under the laws of the state of California (where I'm admitted even though I practice in Indiana...I work for the feds so I don't have to be admitted where I physically practice). California has very well-developed entertainment laws, as you can imagine. This is getting into the weeds a bit, but most likely a court would not order specific performance, meaning ordering the contract to be performed as written rather than just ordering damages, for a long-term performer situation. If it was, say, Mariah Carey's contract for a one-time musical performance, probably, but it's unlikely that a performer would be ordered to continue on a show for three years, or even really one whole year. That's too much like slavery. Plus, they'd be idiots not to have a liquidated damages clause in the contract. 1 Link to comment
EmilyBettFan July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Yeah it never made sense that Oliver would lose his day job because of his evening activities and Laurel still has everything and is BC. How do they think we will take it that Laurel can somehow do everything but, Oliver loses things. It just doesn't make sense. 1 Link to comment
Velocity23 July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 ‘Arrow’ Taps ‘Falling Skies’ Alum as New Foe for Oliver Queen http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/arrow-season-4-ryan-robbins-conklin-shadowspire-1201554171/ 1 Link to comment
dtissagirl July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 The amounts of love I have for Ryan Robbins, you guys. This is actually gonna make me pay attention to the flashbacks! Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Oh, "Sanctuary" guy! I'm hoping they really do something interesting and worthwhile in the flashbacks. I'm liking the casting so far. Link to comment
catrox14 July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Oh it's the HEY IT'S THAT GUY, guy. The only other actor to be in everything Canadian non-Brian Markinson division. Link to comment
Tallis July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Oh, "Sanctuary" guy! I'm hoping they really do something interesting and worthwhile in the flashbacks. I'm liking the casting so far. *That's* where I recognise him from! Thank you, couldn't figure it out. Link to comment
Morrigan2575 July 31, 2015 Author Share July 31, 2015 ‘Arrow’ Taps ‘Falling Skies’ Alum as New Foe for Oliver Queen http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/arrow-season-4-ryan-robbins-conklin-shadowspire-1201554171/ Tector! I liked him (back when i actually watched that PoS show). 1 Link to comment
kismet July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I guess I just can't worry about L/O creeping out again before I see hints in-text. And then there's also the hilarity that imo, KC will never ever stop playing Laurel AS a love interest, so there might actually be hints coming from her in-text... which means I'll have to be looking for hints from Stephen and Oliver and LOL NO. Its part of the narcissistic charm that KC brings to LL. Despite all odds and evidence to the contrary, she will always see herself a certain way and damn those that think otherwise. To me, KC plays LL like the Queen B popular girl in cliche high school movies, she will always be seen as the best, the LI, the one - even if nobody else sees it, talks about it or wants it anymore. She will never give up her quest to be the best. Honestly, I don't think the writers have a romantic endgame, they have some ideas & possible hopes/wishes/plans. But ultimately, I just don't believe in endgames, life is too fragile, things change both little & big, good & bad. I will only believe an endgame exists when all the final scripts are written. I think every option is on the table if they want to change it up it later seasons. Storytelling is evolutionary in nature. The plan you might have set out with gets changed as characters and stories develop. Its the nature of the beast. However, right now they seem contented and happy with the O/F pairing (as am I), so I am just gonna ride this journey to whatever destination may be. Hopefully it will be an enjoyable ride. We did leave in a Porsche afterall. 6 Link to comment
tangerine95 July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Lol that's exactly how KC plays her.I mean she must see how the show around her has changed but she still won't let go of the version of Laurel and Lauriver she was told about when she was cast. About endgames I think they have decided.Maybe not exactly how it will all play out,but they know its Felicity.You don't go as all in with a couple as they did with Olicity in season 3 if they're not endgame.I could see it change if the show goes on for longer then 6 or 7 seasons and EBR leaves but I think they have her locked in as long as SA.I'm more worried about bad writing ruining them so much I won't care about endgame. 1 Link to comment
Chaser July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I'm kind of bummed we don't have more right now. Everything seems to be about guest stars and LOT. And all the BTS seems to be Lance and KC selfies. 3 Link to comment
wonderwall July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Maybe it's because everyone else is busy working while KC is on the sidelines with PB? Wishful thinking? 3 Link to comment
SmallScreenDiva July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 (edited) I'm kind of bummed we don't have more right now. Everything seems to be about guest stars and LOT. And all the BTS seems to be Lance and KC selfies. Think of it this way. Maybe Stephen and Emily (and hopefully David, although he keeps popping up in the background of KC's selfies) are too busy to shoot BTS photos these days because they're filming a lot :D At least, that's what I'm trying to tell myself. I'm really starting to feel the loss of Colton Haynes. I think we got more EBR because of him. Edited to add: LOL! wonderwall, glad I'm not the only one thinking/wishing that Edited July 31, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva 4 Link to comment
kismet July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I have mixed feelings... because on one hand I want to be teased & spoiled a little bit. On the other hand, if the stories are as good as they are hinting, then I sorta want to be surprised and not have it ruined by a selfie. Its a weird push & pull I have with Arrow right now. I sorta don't mind them playing things a little closer to their chest right now. That being said, the casting seems to be pretty amazing so far, so it already looks more promising for a good season esp with NM coming to play so early in the season. 3 Link to comment
AyChihuahua July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I have mixed feelings... because on one hand I want to be teased & spoiled a little bit. On the other hand, if the stories are as good as they are hinting, then I sorta want to be surprised and not have it ruined by a selfie. Its a weird push & pull I have with Arrow right now. I sorta don't mind them playing things a little closer to their chest right now. That being said, the casting seems to be pretty amazing so far, so it already looks more promising for a good season esp with NM coming to play so early in the season. The casting is 1000x better than last season. I've never cared for Brandon Routh (except for this weird supernatural zombie comedy thing he did a few years back), didn't care about the new Vertigo, and the guy playing RAG was pretty much just a "huh?" I liked the guy playing Brick, but I'd signed off the show at that point. 3 Link to comment
statsgirl July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I'm strangely okay with not getting a lot of direct spoilers this year. I know that there are two different sets of villains, one in the past and one in the present, I like the casting for the most part (not sure about NMcD yet), and I'm happy for the most part with the direction of the show that came out at SDCC (Felicity is the one who is bored, not Oliver; Diggle will even slowly get back his relationship with Oliver). Don't like the new Arrow costume though and still no interest in Laurel's story. Oh it's the HEY IT'S THAT GUY, guy. The only other actor to be in everything Canadian non-Brian Markinson division. You forgot Tahmoh Penikett (Paul on Dollhouse) and Roger Cross (Quentin's partner Lucas). Re who Oliver ends up with: considering Olicity just won the MTV award and is generally causing a ton of publicity for the show including being shipped by some of the young male demo, not to mention being very liked by the guy who basically makes the Arrow show (SA), they would have to have a very good reason for going back to Lauriver unless they want to join the infamous St. Elsewhere/HIMYM club. 4 Link to comment
wonderwall July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 This is a really interesting theory! Damien Darhk…is he running the Starling City police force? Going off of that assumption, could this mean that the entire police force, along with other branches of the government, has been infiltrated by his HIVE of followers? 3 Link to comment
Genki July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 This is a really interesting theory! Damien Darhk…is he running the Starling City police force? I been thinking this for a while now too, it would be smart move. Brings QL back on Team Arrow's side, he can be a Double Agent and not be tied to Laurel so much. PB deserves to have some different screen partners, It would also make sense if they start trying to tie Oliver to the Mayor's office (Hopefully as deputy Mayor). It's something that makes more sense to me. I was willing to hand-wave Moira's elections into office after the trial since I thought it opened up interesting storyline potential, (alas I was naive about the show) so not against this type of set-up at all. It also ties in with what I think was said about making the city more of a character in S4 during SDCC. 2 Link to comment
statsgirl July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I agree DD could be running the police force (for the same reason she noted, that the police were going to shoot to kill right away and Oliver would be collateral damage) but I disagree that he would be Chief of Police in Starling City. It's more likely that he would have bought or blackmailed the Chief and was working from outside. Link to comment
apinknightmare July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I will laugh forever if Damien Darhk is the police chief, because that means he would've worked his way up through the ranks. Since the SCPD has shown (with Ray) that they can be bought and influenced by people in power, I think it's more likely that DD has influence in SC and uses that influence on the SCPD. I think they just had the Chief mention that Oliver and Ra's were responsible for the attack because they needed Oliver to get shot for the whole Felicity in Ray's suit scene, and they needed someone of authority to have ordered it so that Quentin could a) warn Felicity, and b) stop looking so awful and ridiculous. 3 Link to comment
catrox14 July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I will laugh forever if Damien Darhk is the police chief, because that means he would've worked his way up through the ranks. Since the SCPD has shown (with Ray) that they can be bought and influenced by people in power, I think it's more likely that DD has influence in SC and uses that influence on the SCPD. I think they just had the Chief mention that Oliver and Ra's were responsible for the attack because they needed Oliver to get shot for the whole Felicity in Ray's suit scene, and they needed someone of authority to have ordered it so that Quentin could a) warn Felicity, and b) stop looking so awful and ridiculous. Not necessarily. Police chiefs can be outside hires . Link to comment
Chaser July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 I'm not a fan of DD as Police Chief. Too me its the same as Ra's playing the Arrow; he shouldn't be doing his own dirty work. They said that he would be the employer Anakary is trying to impress right? I would if DD is going to come in as a rival tech company to Palmer. Link to comment
AyChihuahua July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Overall it could be good for him to be corrupting SCPD, and would make the idea of the cops wanting to shoot Oliver or RAG over Quentin's objections a tiny bit more sensible, except that there was no reason, at all, for them to wait for a victor. Cops don't operate that way. Either both the fighters were perpetrating the bioweapon attack and had to be shot, or it was just a fight and the cops needed to end it, but without any bystanders in danger they couldn't shoot one/both of them with sniper rifles without announcing themselves to end the fight, and they REALLY can't wait for a victor and then shoot him. But whatevs, this show's crazy, and that whole thing was pretty funny in its total nuttiness. Link to comment
apinknightmare July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Not necessarily. Police chiefs can be outside hires . I don't think that's true. I think a person can become commissioner without being an officer, but I'm pretty sure you have to have experience as a law enforcement officer to become a chief. He wouldn't have had to be a cop with the SCPD, but he would've had to have been a cop somewhere else. Not that real world rules apply to TV, I guess. Link to comment
BkWurm1 July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 This is a really interesting theory! Damien Darhk…is he running the Starling City police force? I've had my suspicions since the finale myself, not that he was the Chief of Police but that he was controlling him somehow. He could I suppose be a Police Commissioner, that's a political appointment, right? Maybe that's the real reason the Mayor was killed last season. Maybe she was an important minion of DD. BUT we hear that QL makes a deal or does something that would make us think "man, what is he thinking" right? (I think I'm paraphrasing right) If he was just legitimately working with his superior, then why would we be shaking our head at his actions? 2 Link to comment
statsgirl July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 (edited) Even an outside hire would have to have worked his way up and got policing credentials. It's the same as the argument against him being Felicity's father -- why would someone so evil and so rich have spent that much time living in Las Vegas or being a cop working his way up? This show already has two mobs (Bratva and Triad) and a shadowy government organization (ARGUS). I can easily believe that DD is pulling the strings of SCPD, but I'm betting he's doing it through HIVE or some other outside way. Edited July 31, 2015 by statsgirl 2 Link to comment
kismet August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 I don't necessarily see DD as either police chief or Commissioner, because both of those jobs are more hands on day to day grinding jobs - which I just don't see him doing. Just like I can't see him settling down in Vegas for 6-7yrs to play house with DS. Having a fling yes, but actually sticking around at all to raise his child & teach her computers, I just don't see it. Never mind, I don't want any of the parental figures to be pure evil like they are describing DD, that's just too depressing/sad for me to process. But I certainly can see him using his wealth & power, as well as his position at HIVE to infiltrate city govt and the police force. He might not be the actual chief or commissioner but he controls them just the same. It would be a way to get QL back on TA as well as explain why the police force has been so abysmal for years with no one making any true effort to improve them. If evil corrupt people are running the show, having a competent police force would not be high on the agenda. 2 Link to comment
Velocity23 August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 The fact that Echo said he has scene with Oliver has got me excited! Burned badly by Tin Man last season. 4 Link to comment
Chaser August 1, 2015 Share August 1, 2015 Echo has been so good and patient with the fans. 3 Link to comment
calliope1975 August 2, 2015 Share August 2, 2015 I hope Thea's love interest is a better drawn character than DJ Douchebag. She deserves a decent guy. 7 Link to comment
dtissagirl August 2, 2015 Share August 2, 2015 The "political consultant" part of Thea's new love interest made me curious. He shows up in episode five, so now I'm wondering if the Mayoral election plot will go for awhile. 3 Link to comment
Chaser August 2, 2015 Share August 2, 2015 I was wondering if Jeri Ryan's character is going to be around for more than one episode (I believe it said guest star not recurring). Eps 5 seems early to have Oliver start a political push. I would think he would start as a backer for JRs character. 2 Link to comment
Angel12d August 2, 2015 Share August 2, 2015 Hmm. Political consultant. I don't know why but I always thought the guy who plays Anarky might be Thea's love interest. They're a similar sort of age. Maybe he's Alex? Do we know anything else about his character? I actually think they could have left Thea single for a season and given Laurel a love interest but who knows what they're doing with her. Link to comment
apinknightmare August 2, 2015 Share August 2, 2015 Since Anarky has already been cast, and "Alex" isn't appearing until ep 5, isn't it likely that they are two separate people? Link to comment
Angel12d August 2, 2015 Share August 2, 2015 (edited) Since Anarky has already been cast, and "Alex" isn't appearing until ep 5, isn't it likely that they are two separate people? Probably. I'm just throwing thoughts around. I guess it's also plausible that they are the same person though, and Thea might not meet Alex until 405, even if the audience meets him earlier. I don't know. I just have a feeling Thea might be a bit darker this year, which is why I thought a link to Anarky for some reason. Edited August 2, 2015 by Angel12d 1 Link to comment
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