Spoiler Discussion Thread

[AyChihuahua]

I absolutely do not think Oliver is going to kill Laurel (or any other loved/good character), but if he did I would have to go on imdb/theapplefour's tumblr and laugh and laugh and laugh.

 

I think they're just playing this stupid crap up, just like they did when Oliver was "dead."  It really, really irritates me, because to me it comes across as thinking the audience is stupid.  But it is consistent with their behavior, including Stephen Amell who was doing that crap as much as anyone.

 

If DR or EBR were leaving the show, we'd know by know.  Plus again, Oliver "has reason to smile" in S4, which he would not have if he'd murdered one of his loved ones. 

[statsgirl]

 

Surviving cast members?!   Kill us now.

Diggle has a plot next season. Felicity better survive.  While the only character I want to see DEAD DEAD DEAD is Ra's,  I'm okay with losing someone else.  Not Quentin, please.

 

If Nyssa has as much role in the wedding as any member of Team Arrow, it still could be Roy and Thea.  He's left Team Arrow and she never was a real member.

 

I'm not giving up on my fantasy because the alternatives are just so very bad.

Edited April 29, 2015 by statsgirl

[catrox14]

Oh. No. If he kills anyone that he has ever loved.....that's just a bridge too far.  I don't want to quit this show..but that would sorely test my patience.

[Guest]

I'm starting to think the whole 'O/F driving off in the Porsche' thing from a few weeks ago was a joke or some kind of dream and we're all gonna be as depressed as hell at the end of this season. LOL bye!

 

Also can we stop with this endless back and forth of Oliver killing people and then not and then killing people. Ugh. It's so tired by now. 

 

Maybe we can just stop with people dying period? Because I really don't want to see yet another female character die this season. We all know women bite the bullet first on this show. 

[AyChihuahua]

Maybe he kills Malcolm.  That could provide some angst, as Malcolm's been more or less helpful lately and is Thea's father.  It wouldn't bother me one bit, because Malcolm's evil as hell and I think Oliver should have killed him months ago and FedExd his head to Ra's and avoided all this miserable crap.

[blixie]

 

No wonder SA tweeted out an apology for all that Evil!Oliver does tonight.

 

Well I know I need apology for what appeared to be some painful acting as "Al Sa Him", in that clip. God I found that worse than  his S1 flashback acting.

 

 

"Oliver's actions in the finale are very surprising," he continues ominously.  "Any surviving cast members and the audience are going to be stunned by what is going on with him."

 

Stop trying to stun me, and instead try to tell a good story I'll actually enjoy dumbass. I guess I need to rewatch some Smallvilee Justin Hartley GA to remember why I was ever into a GA show in the first place. That's how bad it is, I'm longing for SMALLVILLE. I'll take cheese and the gayest look of the episode of this shit any day.

[looptab]

Am I the only one who thought that Oliver's surprising actions would be him just being Oliver? I thought of Bkwrm's theory immediately.

[Velocity23]

So the virus is gonna reappear in Starling City?

[tarotx]

Is Oliver is going to play a role in makimg the Flashbacks and present day connect? The virus is going to get set on Starling and people will die? Perhaps Quinton with his bad heart? That on top of injuring Diggle?

[apinknightmare]

Am I the only one who thought that Oliver's surprising actions would be him just being Oliver? I thought of Bkwrm's theory immediately.

 

I think it might be that we find out he was just pretending to be brainwashed and/or he's had a plan in place this whole time.

[lemotomato]

"Is Oliver redeemable?" Seriously, MG? What the fuck have we been watching the last 3 seasons if they're just going turn Oliver into a brainwashed remorseless killer for 2-3 episodes? Are we going to have to watch two more seasons after this of Oliver beating himself up for what he's done, AGAIN, and trying to become a hero, AGAIN?

[kismet]

Surviving cast members? How about surviving fans?

 

Seriously, I need this identity crisis to be over. Oliver needs to finally get his shit together, at least about who he is. He is not a killer or assassin in the present. End of story. Which the title implies... which makes me think maybe MG is just succumbing to his hyperbole again. Honestly as long as he doesn't kill Felicity or Diggle, any major character death that happens, I will be upset for but not surprised. I don't want MM or TQ dead, but what I want is not important. Don't see Nyssa or LL dying. Ras well his days were numbered by his own admission. I wonder is a mercy kill is the last item OQ has to do to complete his ascent to HoD.

 

I mentioned it earlier in the threads. But I think we are at the breaking point of OQ being not good in the flashbacks. Something is going to break him & make him the dark person that we saw in the pilot. I wonder if this is what MG was referring to. Perhaps TA will begin to uncover more of just who OQ was when he was not on the island. I think whatever happens in HK & w/ Akio will be the turning point to Bad Oliver in the flashbacks to contrast with the Good Oliver in the present. I feel like the fact that they haven't told us about Alpha/Omega reprecussions yet and they promise to introduce the S4 big bad means that they are setting the audience up for OQ's descent into darkness in the flashbacks. Its pure speculation (& desire) but I think we will be having HIVE somehow linked to the OQ's Bratva days. And I know I am in the minority but I still feel like OQ will have something bad to do with Andy. So the world as we know it with Oliver Queen being a force of good will contrast starkly with whatever Oliver Queen did in the past, hence everything will be different. We will have the main character as both Hero & Anti-Hero. Hopefully, the writers can pull it off if that is their plan.

[Sunshine]

Am I the only one who thought that Oliver's surprising actions would be him just being Oliver? I thought of Bkwrm's theory immediately.

I am thinking the same. 

[Belinea]

"Is Oliver redeemable?" Seriously, MG? What the fuck have we been watching the last 3 seasons if they're just going turn Oliver into a brainwashed remorseless killer for 2-3 episodes? Are we going to have to watch two more seasons after this of Oliver beating himself up for what he's done, AGAIN, and trying to become a hero, AGAIN?

 

Probably...Because being creative is not their strongest suit. 

 

If Oliver were to kill Malcolm I would believe that his relationship with Thea would survive it. But if he were to kill Quentin, I doubt Laurel would be so forgiving. 

 

Does it specifically say that Oliver kills people in the present or does it also include the flashbacks?

Edited April 29, 2015 by Belinea

[Sunshine]

Serious amount of blood on his hands & is Oliver redeemable...flashbacks maybe?

 

He lost the vial of the alpha omega virus in HK.  If it is as powerful as they say people are going to die (blood on hands). 

 

He has been trying to atone for his transgressions since the pilot. (redeemable)

[catrox14]

Well I know I need apology for what appeared to be some painful acting as "Al Sa Him", in that clip.

 

Maybe that is an intentional thing. If Oliver is trying to pull a ruse, then he's acting himself. That might be SA acting as Oliver would be acting as someone he's not.

[blixie]

 

I think it might be that we find out he was just pretending to be brainwashed and/or he's had a plan in place this whole time.

 

LOOP HOLE. LOOP HOLE. LOOP HOLE. LOOP HOLE. LOOP HOLE.

 

 

Maybe that is an intentional thing.

 

I really don't care if it is, it's laughably bad to watch.

Edited April 29, 2015 by blixie

[looptab]

I think it might be that we find out he was just pretending to be brainwashed and/or he's had a plan in place this whole time.

I could go with this. But really, it sounds to me like Guggenheim is trying to have everyone freaking out thinking about what terrible thing Oliver could do, instead the brainwashing will be over, they somehow defeats Ra's, but he decides heroing is not for him anymore. 

[AyChihuahua]

You know, he really wasn't all that bad in the pilot.  I never had a problem with him killing bad guys, which is who he killed in the pilot.  It isn't like he killed Tommy because there was some chance Tommy saw him kill those bad dudes. 

 

If the season ends with him deciding to give up heroing entirely, what would the comics be about?  I mean, seeing him go to therapy and get his company back and tour some sweet real estate would be pretty boring.

Edited April 29, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

I could go with this. But really, it sounds to me like Guggenheim is trying to have everyone freaking out thinking about what terrible thing Oliver could do, instead the brainwashing will be over, they somehow defeats Ra's, but he decides heroing is not for him anymore. 

 

He's definitely trying to rile people up, and I'm sure Oliver will overcome all this terrible crap in the last 10-ish minutes of the episode, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the "surprising" thing Oliver does is supposed to be a "gotcha" of sorts.

[Sunshine]

He's definitely trying to rile people up, and I'm sure Oliver will overcome all this terrible crap in the last 10-ish minutes of the episode, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the "surprising" thing Oliver does is supposed to be a "gotcha" of sorts.

Which might explain the Diggle scene discussing hurt feelings and betrayal mentioned by MG

[Soulfire]

I think it might be that we find out he was just pretending to be brainwashed and/or he's had a plan in place this whole time.

 

*coughs Alias season 3 *coughs*

[statsgirl]

I thought Evil Oliver would be wrapped up this episode but now I'm wondering if it will continue into 322 to justify everyone taking another day trip to Nanda Parbat.

 

Re typing the flashbacks to the present -- I'm still hoping that it's the Maseo/Tatsu/Akio story rather than the Omega virus just because it's so weird for Ra's to be attacking via such scientific means.

 

Also can we stop with this endless back and forth of Oliver killing people and then not and then killing people. Ugh. It's so tired by now. 

 

I'm wondering if the creative well is dry.  This season has seemed like such a repeat of a combination of the first two.

[looptab]

You know, he really wasn't all that bad in the pilot. I never had a problem with him killing bad guys, which is who he killed in the pilot. It isn't like he killed Tommy because there was some chance Tommy saw him kill those bad dudes.

If the season ends with him deciding to give up heroing entirely, what would the comics be about? I mean, seeing him go to therapy and get his company back and tour some sweet real estate would be pretty boring.

Appeasing people demands, it will be about Laurel. She isn't giving up her buckles, of course;)

[Morrigan2575]

So Oliver pretends to be brainwashed but kills a lot of people in order to keep the ruse up? Then why would SA talk about a loophole and trying to figure out if they could walk the character back from his actions?

In TV, when dealing with a loophole it usually means they weren't in control. They flipped their humanity switch, possessed, mind controlled, Red K, soullessness, etc

ETA: Crack Magic Willow, Hexenbeist Juliette...I'm probably forgetting a few.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[chaos is welcome]

It's too much to hope for that it's that simple.

Either way, I've gone from cautiously optimistic to downright disheartened in one fell swoop of Guggie.

[kismet]

*coughs Alias season 3 *coughs*

Seriously, may be that will explain the secret Jet scene as well... we'll get O/N/Ras in the big reveal.

 

Good thing I like Alias, hopefully they start to take some of the other good stuff from that show as well. Like kickass but relatable females & well-written multi-season villain arcs.

Edited April 29, 2015 by kismet

[blixie]

Ah, I guess in Guggenheim land, tis better to lower expectations to NIL so that anything better than NIL seems like it was amazing television.

[catrox14]

So Oliver pretends to be brainwashed but kills a lot of people in order to keep the ruse up? Then why would SA talk about a loophole and trying to figure out if they could walk the character back from his actions?

In TV, when dealing with a loophole it usually means they weren't in control. They flipped their humanity switch, possessed, mind controlled, Red K, soullessness, etc

 

I think if it's show that Oliver is doing it to save other lives, that's a "loophole".   I don't give a shit if he kills 100 assassins.  But if he slaughters innocent people that's a different story.  I could see there being a situation where the Omega virus thing becomes something he gives up to save someone so that might be the "blood on his hands". 

[lemotomato]

But in the MG quote where he says Oliver has blood on his hands and may or may not be redeemable, he links it to Olver's descent into darkness with the LoA, which implies Oliver's actions in present day, not flashbacks, and that he's bad because of what he's done for the LoA.

After today's round of interviews and spoilers for the last 3 episodes, I'm very glad that I'll be out of the country from right before 3x22 until after 3x23. I can't imagine how bad the trolling/speculation is going to be the next two weeks.

Edited April 29, 2015 by lemotomato

[Morrigan2575]

But in the MG quote where he says Oliver has blood on his hands and may or may not be redeemable, he links it to Olver's descent into darkness with the LoA, which implies Oliver's actions in present day, not flashbacks, and that he's bad because of what he's done for the LoA.

After today's round of interviews and spoilers for the last 3 episodes, I'm very glad that I'll be out of the country from right before 3x22 until after 3x23. I can't imagine how bad the trolling/speculation is going to be the next two weeks.

i agree with you, unless MG is being his normal hyperbolic self..

However, add that to SAs, DRs and even GBs comments, and I'm going with this being the case.

[wonderwall]

I just watched that clip between Nyssa and Laurel... that was such a weird scene and really badly acted by KC... The scene seemed wooden and detached. Even Nyssa couldn't save the scene for me. Yikes!

Edited April 29, 2015 by wonderwall

[catrox14]

I'm saying there might be a present day event with the Omega virus

[tarotx]

Killing people with a Virus is what Ra's did in the Contagion/Legacy Comics

...Re typing the flashbacks to the present -- I'm still hoping that it's the Maseo/Tatsu/Akio story rather than the Omega virus just because it's so weird for Ra's to be attacking via such scientific means.

....

[apinknightmare]

Maybe Ra's wants to obliterate SC from the face of the earth and lured everyone away so there would be no one to stop him. Although that seems a) against League "code" and b) stupid.

ETA: although I guess the very last thing Ra's could take away from Oliver is the city he loves. And that could open up a door for an interesting battle between Nyssa and her father, if she thinks that's wrong. Although where Ray and Laurel would be in all this is beyond me. In NP? Neutralized so they can't help? IDK.

Edited April 29, 2015 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

"Maybe Ra's wants to obliterate SC from the face of the earth and lured everyone away so there would be no one to stop him. Although that seems a) against League "code" and b) stupid."

 

Re (a) they can pull a prophecy out of their asses, re (b) you have met this Ra's, yes?

 

Just joking, but seriously, he's dumb as a box of rocks.

[Morrigan2575]

Maybe Ra's wants to obliterate SC from the face of the earth and lured everyone away so there would be no one to stop him. Although that seems a) against League "code" and b) stupid.

ETA: although I guess the very last thing Ra's could take away from Oliver is the city he loves. And that could open up a door for an interesting battle between Nyssa and her father, if she thinks that's wrong. Although where Ray and Laurel would be in all this is beyond me. In NP? Neutralized so they can't help? IDK.

you expect them to remember something they wrote in S2? you silly, silly person ;-)

[Sunshine]

But in the MG quote where he says Oliver has blood on his hands and may or may not be redeemable, he links it to Olver's descent into darkness with the LoA, which implies Oliver's actions in present day, not flashbacks, and that he's bad because of what he's done for the LoA.

After today's round of interviews and spoilers for the last 3 episodes, I'm very glad that I'll be out of the country from right before 3x22 until after 3x23. I can't imagine how bad the trolling/speculation is going to be the next two weeks.

I went back and reread the comment and I agree it is present day.  That said, there is some twist or loophole in here unless they decided they don't want to tell the Green Arrow origin story anymore. 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2015 by Sunshine

[kismet]

Well if they link the Alpha/Omega from the fb to the present LoA actions then that will be the bridge they need for moving the flashbacks into a darker place in s4. I don't discount that they will have EvilOliver do bad things in the present. I just wonder if this whole redeemable or not will be more of a long-term theme. Rewatched the pilot and he spent a lot of time on purgatory (most likely willingly) by the look of his hair/beard. So whatever Oliver Queen did between HK & his return to SC must have been pretty horrible that he is still punishing himself years later. I'm just thinking that it might be the show rebooting itself in the finale for s4, which makes me think whatever blood on his hand comes from both his past & perhaps his present actions in LoA.

[apinknightmare]

I thought they said they wouldn't destroy the city 3 years in a row. Another reversal or doesn't wiping out a city's population qualify as destruction?

Well, if he doesn't succeed...

[AyChihuahua]

Honestly, how much evil can he really do in three weeks...less, actually, because presumably it takes more than 15 minutes to brainwash him.  They're not going to have him kill Diggle, Felicity, Thea, Lyla, Sara, or Laurel.  If he kills Maseo or Malcolm, I really don't care.  Roy is far away in his remaining episode.  Maybe a random as his first kill, but most likely whoever is chosen wouldn't be all that innocent.  I don't care if he kills every single LOA assassin, seriously. 

 

Do we know if Tatsu is in 23?

 

"So whatever Oliver Queen did between HK & his return to SC must have been pretty horrible that he is still punishing himself years later."

 

Oliver Queen punishes the crap out of himself for accidentally leaving the toilet seat up.  Dude's got self-esteem issues, is what I'm saying.

Edited April 29, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Carrie Ann]

Okay, all this stuff is making me pretty depressed, so I'm going to focus on a few things:

1) That this is supposed to feel like the culmination of three seasons of a story.

2) That Oliver could smile more in Season 4.

 

I don't think these writers are trying to write a story with defeat as the outcome. For all the grimdarkness of the show, they're pretty cheesy at heart. I just really don't think we're ending the season in a depressing place, and for that to be true, either Oliver needs to come around with a quickness in the finale (or in the closing minutes of 322), or he's faking this brainwashing thing to a certain extent. The latter is more satisfying and a better story to tell, but I would also accept him coming back to himself because his humanity couldn't be extinguished. It doesn't mean that Oliver won't do some horrible things because he's backed into a corner, but it means that the growth he's achieved over the past seasons isn't so easily undone.

[apinknightmare]

Honestly, how much evil can he really do in three weeks...less, actually, because presumably it takes more than 15 minutes to brainwash him. 

 

Not even that. Seems like we're going to get our first look at his evildoing this ep, but aren't the next two supposed to take place over a couple of days? 

[calliope1975]

I still give Dean Winchester the edge in self hate but Oliver's almost at the same level. When are the spoilers going to get me interested again? I'm guessing whatever they'll spin for S4.

[AyChihuahua]

Exactly.  So from the time TA leaves him in NP through the finale, it's like 3.5 weeks.  There's just so much evil he can do in some portion of that time.

 

I forgot Lance in my list, but I don't like Lance anymore and wouldn't care if Oliver killed him, either.  The few I'd care about him killing are safe.

 

"I still give Dean Winchester the edge in self hate but Oliver's almost at the same level."

 

Yeah, Dean's self-hate, plus some really ridiculous post-S5 plotting are the main things that got me totally off Supernatural.  It doesn't even make me angry anymore, just bores me and whenever I try to tune in I am overwhelmed by ennui.  A state I am hoping to reach with Arrow soon.

Edited April 29, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

I still give Dean Winchester the edge in self hate but Oliver's almost at the same level. When are the spoilers going to get me interested again? I'm guessing whatever they'll spin for S4.

 

Oh man. I was just thinking that Dean could at least take Oliver to a nudie bar or something LOL.  Sam and Diggle can stay behind to take care things.  Of course now that the magic waters of Lazarus Pit have been introduced I might get my crossover.

[nksarmi]

So 3x22 is going to end in "the most insane cliffhanger" they've ever done, while Oliver is going to have "a serious amount of blood on his hands" by 3x23?  

 

I'm feeling more dread than anticipation for the remaining three episodes.

See?  I said earlier today I needed to stop reading spoilers and THIS is why!!!!!!

[AyChihuahua]

I wonder how tonight's episode will do in the ratings.  It seems that the well-publicized Olicity sex gave last episode a ratings bump, but it's not just commenters here who are bored and underwhelmed by this season, and not looking for more misery.  Tonight's episode is going to be very, very miserable.

[apinknightmare]

I think tonight's ep will do well in the ratings, if for nothing else to see the follow-up on Evil!Oliver.

 

Or I suppose that could make a lot of people peace out. I think it'll be the former though.

Edited April 29, 2015 by apinknightmare

[nksarmi]

You know since the interview where MG said they were "blowing up the show" this year, I have been concerned that Arrow might become I show I don't want to watch.  The hints at season four sound ok, but I'm not convinced.  I don't get it - take a show that's working and ruin it?  Why?

 

Colton might have gotten out just in time and Caity and Ray might end up being glad they are over on the spinoff.  I wonder if KC might start reading all the suggestions that she go to Flash and start petitioning that Laurel get a new job in Central City?  Because Arrow is starting to sound like its not going to get better.