Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Orion]

Could "Sara" be an anagram play on Ra's al Ghul ? For the people into comics is he ever called just Rasa?

Edited July 28, 2014 by Orion

[apinknightmare]

Yes!! I just read this too! WTH does that even mean? The others make sense. Maybe a better way to phrase that is "Who is Laurel?"

 

I mean, why would she be questioning if she's her sister? They're nothing alike. I'd say this would be a clue for her already suiting up as some kind of crime fighter in the first ep, but the EPs have already said that's not happening. So yeah, I don't get it. Unless they're killing Sara off sooner than anticipated and she's going to try to take her place before the end of the season, and that will be her issue.

 

Or maybe they're not killing Sara off and Laurel suits up and can't decide if that's the kind of life for her?

 

Crack theory: Laurel gets disenchanted with the legal system in Starling, Ra's recruits Laurel to the LoA to help dispense his own brand of justice, haha

Edited July 28, 2014 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

I can imagine the four of them talking about it (Stephen and the 3 EPs) and deciding that it's time to make a statement and Stephen's going to take the hit for it because he's the one who can recover most easily.

 

He also happened to make such definitive statements to journalists of smaller sites/blogs [instead of saying it at the panels, or to a bigger media venue like TV Guide or Ent Weekly]. So while he knew it would spread super quickly, it's definitely contained to fandom. It looked like a very deliberate message *to fandom* to me. Which makes sense because "Oliver Queen is mooning over his IT girl but because MANPAIN he'll be celibate for the whole season" is not really interesting news to report about a super hero show.

Edited July 28, 2014 by dancingnancy

[apinknightmare]

well maybe the equipment team Arrow will borrow from ARGUS will be named S.A.R.A.

 

I'm not sure what for yet, but my vote is it's an acronym of some sort.

[Velocity23]

Interview with the cast

 

http://www.tvfanatic.com/2014/07/arrow-spoilers-amell-on-ollicitys-hot-date-diggle-slash-ollie-fe/

[HighwayFlower]

If I'm trying to be optimistic, maybe Laurel is realizing she is NOT the canary, her sister, but Manhunter, a DA instead? I can dream right?

[Password]

*giggle* These writers. How would Laurel even come to that conclusion? Who voluntarily wants to put their life in danger without proper training? Or even with training. Motivations writers. Give me motivations. Not character transplants.

[catrox14]

Well, Laurel does have the nasty habit of running headlong into things when she's told not to do it, so her thinking she could do it without proper training doesn't really surprise me.

[Velocity23]

"I think they're in love with each other" - Marc Guggenheim  on Oliver and Felicity 

[Password]

"I think they're in love with each other" - Marc Guggenheim on Oliver and Felicity

Thick. As. Butter. Someone explain this to me, please.

Does anyone feel cheated of story telling here? Like wth.

Edited July 28, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[catrox14]

Welp there it is ! We all know it, they know it. They would be fools to not explore what we all think is there.

[Starfish35]

Laurel: Am I Laurel or am I my sister?

What a strange thing to say. What does that even mean? I thought it was a joke at first until I read the rest of the questions and realized they were all serious questions.

[statsgirl]

1. Season 3 is all about identity. - Apparently, a number of characters will be questioning their identity. Guggenheim broke it down with each of the main characters and their identity questions:

Oliver - Can I be both Oliver and Arrow?

Laurel - Am I Laurel, or Am I my sister?

Thea Queen - Am I Thea Queen or Am I Thea Merlyn? Am I Malcolm Merlyn’s daughter or am I Moira Queen’s daughter.

Diggle - Am I a sidekick or am I my own man? Am I a crime fighter or am I a father?

Felicity - Am I Oliver’s crush object or do I have my own identity outside of that. Do I exist outside the lair?I

1.  Oliver:  this is what they've been teasing for next season.

 

2.  Laurel:  Optimistically, I'm thinking that this could be a way to make her Manhunter or some other character.  "Am I my sister (i.e. the Black Canary), or am I Laurel?"  If she chooses Laurel Lance the lawyer, she's not the B.C.

 

3. I'm really looking forward to seeing Thea figure out if she's Moira's daughter or Malcolm's.

 

4.  Good stuff for Diggle, not big fireworks but he's not a fireworks kind of guy. It's consistent with him being the mature, thinking one in the cave.  I wonder if they'll also tie it back to Oliver losing his own father and what that means for him.

 

I'm also interested in how he balances Lyla being the head of A.R.G.U.S., and the Andy Diggle story.

 

5.  Finally they're going to make Felicity more than a crush on Oliver.  Thank you for listening, EPs.

 

12. Caity Lotz will be around in a recurring role. - “We’ve made a recurring deal for three episodes,” Marc Guggenheim explained, referring to Lotz’s Season 3 presence on the show. “But we’ve got ideas and sort of a need certainly beyond three.”

 

14. They want to do a flashback story that reveals how Sarah met Nyssa al Ghul and became a member of the League of assassins. From what Marc Guggenheim said, the idea would be to take Sarah from the shores of Lian Yu after the Amazo went down to when she becomes a member of the League of Assassins. “All of that is something we are absolutely determined to do, we just don’t know what episode it’s going to go in yet,” Guggenheim said.

15. Big Felicity flashback coming in Episode 5! - Greg Berlanti says we’ll be getting to know Felicity better in Season 3. And there’s another character we’ll be getting to know better as well this season.

16. More Thea and more Felicity - From what Stephen Amell says, it sounds like both women will be featured a bit more prominently this season, possibly each with their own centric episode at some point.

 

24. Ray Palmer is interested in understanding how Felicity went from an I.T. person to Oliver’s assistant at Queen Industries. - “He’s particularly interested in her rise, and has some questions for her,” Greg Berlanti told us, adding that Brandon Routh’s character has a lot of chemistry with Felicity.

25. Brandon Routh will be the Cary Grant to Stephen Amell’s John Wayne. - Greg Berlanti used that analogy when talking about how tall and strapping Brandon Routh is, and how Ray Palmer can go toe to toe with Oliver.

It sounds like they've got plans for CL beyond her three episodes. It's looking good for Sara longterm.

 

Yay for more Thea and Felicity.  Again, it sounds like they're listening to the fans.

I'm also glad to know that Thea/Roy seems longterm even if they get alternate love interests this season.

 

I'm getting more excited about Brandon Routh being on the show because it sounds like the EPs want to play around with his character as more than just a stumbling block for Oliver.  The only John Wayne movie I really like was The Quiet Man (okay, maybe Stagecoach) so I'm hoping they don't adhere too closely to his screen persona.

Edited July 28, 2014 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

For anyone who wants to watch the video where MG says this: 

 

http://www.tvfanatic.com/videos/marc-guggenheim-comic-con-q-and-a/?PageSpeed=noscript

[Starfish35]

Thea Queen - Am I Thea Queen or Am I Thea Merlyn? Am I Malcolm Merlyn’s daughter or am I Moira Queen’s daughter.

I hope this means we'll be seeing more of Moira in flashback.

[Velocity23]

Jesus i never would have thought MG would say things like this:

 

 

They’ve been dancing around each other since episode 3 so basically for 43 episodes they have had this connection"

Seems Stephen really did have a sit down with the EPs

[statsgirl]

MG also said that they're in love with each other, he tells her some secrets and "that emotional intimacy deepens their connection".

So, is it canon yet?

 

He says that they pick pressure points that will bring out emotional reactions in the characters and the villains are the pressure points.  So I guess Time of Death really was supposed to be about Felicity.

Edited July 28, 2014 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

 

Felicity - Am I Oliver’s crush object or do I have my own identity outside of that. Do I exist outside the lair?

 

So, I've been wondering exactly what kind of conversation Oliver and Felicity have with each other that would lead to them "making declarations" to each other (or however SA phrased it) and then NOT being together. I know Oliver's probably going to tell her he can't be with her while he's the Arrow or some other version of that, but ever since whichever EP said that they'd both have their reasons for not moving forward and they'd both be sympathetic, I've been wondering what Felicity's would be. Unless I've been reading it WAY wrong, she obviously loves him.

 

Since she's wondering if she's just his crush, I wonder if her reason is because she's not sure he's serious about her or with his track record she doesn't want to get hurt? Especially since he told her he couldn't be with someone he could really care about and then turned around and dated Sara? Maybe she thinks he's trying to back out gracefully by feeding her another line about how he can't be with her because reasons? That could be another reason why he's a one-woman man this year - to prove something to her?

 

I'm really excited about the news that Ray Palmer's going to be interested in her career trajectory. Even though I understand why Oliver did what he did with regards to making her his EA (yeah, he's a selfish a-hole, but), I'm guessing Mr. Palmer is going to see her talent and want to nurture and develop that, and provide her with a sense of worth that she doesn't get from working with Oliver? I wonder if this will make Oliver see her as Felicity, the woman instead of just Felicity, my partner?

 

Then there's this:

 

 

“Now there’s a real legitimate threat, or at least a real legitimate choice for Felicity to make. Oliver’s reaction to it and the decisions it forces him to make are the emotional crux of the episodes.”

 

What kind of decisions would this FORCE him to make? I wonder if at some point this season he's going to want her to and/or ask her to leave the team so that she can have a 'normal' life and be happy? I think he'll want to do the same thing for Diggle and push them both away so that they can get on with their lives now that he's decided he can't have one.

 

I feel like this situation has such great potential to help Oliver grow as a person in terms of how he treats/sees the people he loves (like Felicity, Diggle, Thea) and I just want it so badly.

Edited July 28, 2014 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

I mean, it's kind of obvious that SA did have a sit down with the EPs or else the EPs would be doing a bit of damage control right now :p 

 

Regardless, is it bad that I'm happy they're going into this head on? I've never watched a show that actually did this which is one of the most refreshing things. :)

[Password]

"Look, I think they’re in love with each other, and when you’re in love with someone, it’s very hard for the person you love to tell you something that’s going to make you fall out of love with them instantaneously, but that emotionally intimacy deepens their relationship. Deepens their connection." MG.

Is it me or did things just get interesting between these two?

[apinknightmare]

"Look, I think they’re in love with each other, and when you’re in love with someone, it’s very hard for the person you love to tell you something that’s going to make you fall out of love with them instantaneously, but that emotionally intimacy deepens their relationship. Deepens their connection." MG.

Is it me or did things just get interesting between these two?

 

YES, THEY DID. And after I wrote my long analytical thing too, ugh. I'm guessing maybe Felicity might realize she doesn't know Oliver as well as she thinks she does. I'm glad that he says it deepens their relationship and their connection.

[dtissagirl]

1. Season 3 is all about identity. - Apparently, a number of characters will be questioning their identity. Guggenheim broke it down with each of the main characters and their identity questions:

Oliver - Can I be both Oliver and Arrow?

Diggle - Am I a sidekick or am I my own man? Am I a crime fighter or am I a father?

Felicity - Am I Oliver’s crush object or do I have my own identity outside of that. Do I exist outside the lair?

 

I kinda love how the questions for the Trio are set up. No, Oliver, you cannot be both, choose one STFU about the other. No, Diggle, you're just a sidekick forever and ever go sit in the corner. No, Felicity, you do no exist outside the lair stop crying about it. I mean. I know it's the journey that's important, but it's still funny to me.

 

Maybe she thinks he's trying to back out gracefully by feeding her another line about how he can't be with her because reasons? That could be another reason why he's a one-woman man this year - to prove something to her?

I love this idea? Oliver's had very little impulse control about his sex life up to this point, and one interesting thing about becoming a responsible adult could be him deciding to NOT do that anymore. And it's okay if it starts as a way to prove himself to Felicity, but it brings him character development as well if it's a choice he makes that ends up being emotionally healthier for him. One of my friends told me a few months ago she wished S3 would be the Year of Celibacy for Oliver, and now it looks like she might have had a point.

Edited July 28, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Password]

This interview is giving me things to think about. Felicity said yes to the date, so it's after the date that they have the intense conversation? I wonder what SA meant when he said he comes face to face literally with a version of himself that he doesn't like. For the first time the Olicity arc looks like something to look forward to beyond the shippery heart in me.

Seems like they're going all in which is...surprising.

[wonderwall]

I kind of hope the whole "I can't be with you" spiel ends with Felicity saying something along the lines of "I won't wait for you". I feel like this would hit the nail on the head in regards to Felicity being reduced to a puppy dog when it comes to Oliver. This also goes along the lines of what EBR has said in past interviews about Felicity knowing that there are other men out there. It would be a great introduction to Felicity's solo-journey throughout the season (fingers crossed we actually see Felicity have an arc all to herself :))

[apinknightmare]

This interview is giving me things to think about. Felicity said yes to the date, so it's after the date that they have the intense conversation? I wonder what SA meant when he said he comes face to face literally with a version of himself that he doesn't like. For the first time the Olicity arc looks like something to look forward to beyond the shippery heart in me.

Seems like they're going all in which is...surprising.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say they have this conversation after Felicity wakes up on that table. MG said in that interview that they chose Vertigo for this particular episode for a reason, and I'm guessing maybe Oliver comes close to killing him, and it parallels what happened in State vs. Queen? My mind's a blank when it comes to anything else that would scare the shit out of him.

 

They do seem to be going all in, I'm having trouble comprehending it.

[statsgirl]

From the promo reel, I think it's during the date that he tells her about Hong Kong and maybe some other things about the years he wasn't on the island.   And then things blow up before they get their food, Count Vertigo tell hims something about the Arrow, a flashback to Hong Kong where his mentor tells him he can't be two people, he has to be just one, and he picks The Arrow rather than Oliver Queen, with the big emotional conversation with Felicity.  Then the rest of the season is trying to figure out if he can get Oliver Queen back again after he's had those few moments of being him.

 

When Arrow is good, it's very, very good.  Going from what Guggenheim said in the interview, maybe it's because their first priority is the emotional beats for the characters rather than "shoot 'em up, blow 'em up" villains on other shows. 

 

 

I kind of hope the whole "I can't be with you" spiel ends with Felicity saying something along the lines of "I won't wait for you". I

I hope it's more along the lines of "Do what you have to do" rather than "I won't wait for you" because MG did say she's in love with him.  And then when Ray comes along, pushes her career-wise in a way that Oliver doesn't, she starts to think that maybe Oliver won't be ready any time in the foreseeable future and meanwhile there is this other guy who seems to really care for her.

Edited July 28, 2014 by statsgirl

[wingster55]

Quite interesting...I'm definitely on board with them if it pans out like that.

 

As for Thea..I would think the dilemma is Robert or Malcolm. Nurture vs Nature.

[quarks]

Hmm.

1. Oliver decides to tell Felicity the truth about his past.

2. Guggenheim tells us that it's very difficult to tell someone you love something that might make that person fall out of love with you.

3. Felicity already knows about the serial killing and the sister swapping.

4. I am suddenly a LOT more interested in Hong Kong.

[TanyaKay]

They could use a bit of makeup, a little gray around the temples, and make a few veiled references to the Lazarus Pit. It just never occurred to me to have PP as Ra's until I read it here; and now, it's going to sit in my brain and take root and grow until they announce who they actually cast, and then I'll be crushed with disappointment like when they cast Brandon Routh instead of Luke Mitchell.

God I too was insanely hung up on Luke Mitchell to be Felicity's love interest. Still not happy about him not being in the show.

[Velocity23]

 

 

Any new info on Arrow’s Ray Palmer would be appreciated! –Rida

Hmm, I do like to be appreciated. Playing the Arrow newcomer, onetime Superman Brandon Routh is (like onetime Lois Lane Teri Hatcher) “spectacular,” EP Marc Guggenheim tells TVLine. “He has exceeded everyone’s wildest expectations. And what’s fun about the way Brandon interacts with everyone is we wanted someone who would offer a bit of what Grant Gustin did — someone who’s a little more on Felicity’s end of the spectrum in terms of color, and at the same time is very different from Grant. And Brandon, he’s just this change agent that shakes up everybody.” That said, a guy’s gotta have his secrets. “You’re going to see that there’s a lot going on with him,” Guggenheim hints. “He’s not what he initially appears to be.”

http://tvline.com/2014/07/28/ncis-season-12-ducky-origin-story-spoilers/

[Morrigan2575]

If I had to guess, I'd say they have this conversation after Felicity wakes up on that table. MG said in that interview that they chose Vertigo for this particular episode for a reason, and I'm guessing maybe Oliver comes close to killing him, and it parallels what happened in State vs. Queen? My mind's a blank when it comes to anything else that would scare the shit out of him.

 

They do seem to be going all in, I'm having trouble comprehending it.

Oh that is interesting...so can he have everything he wants, life, love family and be The Arrow since his protective instinct and training might lead him back down the path to killing? Kind of like how he said in 201, he doesn't know if he can wear the hood and not be a killer. He's now learned that he can be The Arrow and a hero, not a killer but will the selfish/playboy Oliver side be the same?

[HighwayFlower]

It's seems too soon to be about the kid, but it would make sense. He has to tell Felicity, who was abandoned by her father that he abandoned a kid, and see how he now looks in her eyes...

But that would only work if at some point he had learned kid existed.

[Password]

For some reason I'm leaning towards the killer thing because Felicity has always cheered him on not to. He did kill The Count last time because he wanted to hurt/kill Felicity. Aaaaah someone leak that damn premiere. It's giving me a headache. I need to know.

 

I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if they introduced knowledge of the child so early on. It would certainly play on Felicity's emotions in particular because she was abandoned.

 

He also said Felicity's reaction to the secrets revealed will be interesting. As interesting as Laurel finding out Oliver is the Arrow and being all you're my hero when I expected and wanted her to throw exploding glasses at him again? Hopefully not. Though I'm sure Felicity can rock an exploding high heel.

Edited July 28, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[dtissagirl]

Oh that is interesting...so can he have everything he wants, life, love family and be The Arrow since his protective instinct and training might lead him back down the path to killing? Kind of like how he said in 201, he doesn't know if he can wear the hood and not be a killer. He's now learned that he can be The Arrow and a hero, not a killer but will the selfish/playboy Oliver side be the same?

I love @apinknightmare's spec that Oliver might feel like he can't control himself if Felicity's life is on the line. Guggenheim implied the new Count Vertigo is about old Count Vertigo -- the last time Oliver killed someone, *for* Felicity. So if he comes close to killing for her again, then yes, they probably shouldn't be in a relationship right now for actual serious reasons other than "because of the life that I lead". And Felicity wouldn't want to be the cause of Oliver's regression.

And then they can spend the rest of the season season making it so Oliver learns some impulse control by not sleeping with everything that moves and by not killing people who threaten Felicity.

[poetgirl925]

I keep thinking about the promo where we see the new Count Vertigo say "You won't stay dead" - looks like he's saying it to the Arrow. Could he be referencing the restaurant explosion? Could Vertigo have been targeting Oliver Queen? Does he perhaps know Oliver is the Arrow, specifically targets him for that reason and Oliver feels guilty? Either way it's looking like we won't get the same "because of the life that I lead" speech again. If Oliver is struggling with opening up and with emotional intimacy and Felicity is struggling with knowing Oliver and all his dirty laundry from those 5 years, it seems bigger than that.

But with all these sudden confirmations about "Olicity" I'm also a little afraid I'm going to start the season wondering what was going on between these two during the time gap. I always felt like Oliver's time away between S1 and S2 gave Oliver and Laurel some clarity on their chances at romance. They both put it to rest, or that's how I read everything that was going on. Now we have another time gap and Oliver has had another epiphany. I just hope they reference some of the bread crumbs that have led to them being in love with each other because that is big. I honestly didn't think Oliver was that self aware - at best I thought he might have realized it in the finale, but it was still ambiguous. I really need a scene that fills the gaps a little. They did say they would reference their first meeting in the premiere, so maybe we'll get something?

[statsgirl]

 

It's seems too soon to be about the kid, but it would make sense. He has to tell Felicity, who was abandoned by her father that he abandoned a kid, and see how he now looks in her eyes...

Technically he didn't abandon the kid since he thinks it's stillborn or miscarried.  If he/she had been born, Oliver might have been a part of it's life.  It was Moira who abandoned the kid, except she didn't really because she gave Sandra $2 million for its care.

 

For some reason I'm leaning towards the killer thing because Felicity has always cheered him on not to. He did kill The Count last time because he wanted to hurt/kill Felicity. Aaaaah someone leak that damn premiere. It's giving me a headache. I need to know.

The killer thing makes sense since Felicity's always been about not killing since she joined the Team in s1.  Maybe he tells her that A.R.G.U.S. turned him into a killer/assassin, and she understands?  Guggenheim seems to think that women freak out when they learn things about their men.

 

But if Oliver could defeat Slade and his mirakuru army without killing, what would be bad enough to turn him into a killer now?  I tend to think it's more about not being able to save the city if he's Oliver Queen and happy rather than ever-vigilant.

 

 

And then they can spend the rest of the season season making it so Oliver learns some impulse control by not sleeping with everything that moves and by not killing people who threaten Felicity.

LOL about the impulse control. He needs it.

I like this scenario.

Edited July 28, 2014 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

It's seems too soon to be about the kid, but it would make sense. He has to tell Felicity, who was abandoned by her father that he abandoned a kid, and see how he now looks in her eyes...

But that would only work if at some point he had learned kid existed.

 

This would make sense to me (I DO think he knows about the kid - I think his reaction to learning Felicity had been abandoned meant something. I wonder if Waller used it to threaten him?). Because what could he tell her that would make her not love him? She knows he's killed. She wouldn't blame him for doing what he had to do to survive - she's met Waller.

 

I don't think she'd be all that surprised to find out that he had a kid, and she knows he cheated on Laurel, so that wouldn't surprise her either. (I have to stop, because this woman loves him in spite of everything he hates about himself and it gives me feelings).

 

MG's statement that her reaction to whatever he tells her suggests to me that whatever it is she already knows. Would she have hacked ARGUS to look at his file in the months since she found out he had one (didn't Waller show it to her in City of Blood?)? She could've found out anything from that.

[poetgirl925]

I love @apinknightmare's spec that Oliver might feel like he can't control himself if Felicity's life is on the line. Guggenheim implied the new Count Vertigo is about old Count Vertigo -- the last time Oliver killed someone, *for* Felicity. So if he comes close to killing for her again, then yes, they probably shouldn't be in a relationship right now for actual serious reasons other than "because of the life that I lead". And Felicity wouldn't want to be the cause of Oliver's regression.And then they can spend the rest of the season season making it so Oliver learns some impulse control by not sleeping with everything that moves and by not killing people who threaten Felicity.

This makes a lot of sense and wouldn't seem like a silly stalling tactic. I also like what SA had to say about Oliver's feelings towards Ray and how Ray isn't the villain. I just really want all of this to be handled in a mature way for the charscters and in such a way that it allows personal growth.

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

"Look, I think they’re in love with each other, and when you’re in love with someone, it’s very hard for the person you love to tell you something that’s going to make you fall out of love with them instantaneously, but that emotionally intimacy deepens their relationship. Deepens their connection." MG.

Is it me or did things just get interesting between these two?

This is why I feared they would have the balls to write Olicity. I hope they don't screw it up. While Oliver might open up to Felicity and give her time to digest the news he got off the island and what he did while off the island, I don't know how they can make her fall out of love with him instantly. Unless Oliver was an assassin and killed her father and while I can see them doing this, I would hate it with the burning passion of a thousand suns.

 

I am cool with them not jumping in without all the facts. Have Oliver explain to Felicity he wasn't stranded on an island. Explain what he did in Hong Kong. Heck he might have even been back in Starling City. Maybe he did something horrible and Waller dropped him back on the island because his usefulness to her ran out. Just for it to be so catastrophic Felicity all the sudden doesn't love Oliver anymore.... It has to be huge. Monumental huge. Like he was a child molester in Hong Kong. She's already dealt with him as a murderer. 

 

If Oliver said to her something along the lines of "I want to be with you, but I'm not there yet." She wouldn't fall out of love with him. If he pushes her out of Team Arrow for her safety I can see her being angry, but I think Felicity has more patience than a saint. For it to be so huge she "falls out of love with him" it must be emmy-worthy.  *snort*

[statsgirl]

AnalyzeAndCritique, I think that Guggenheim was saying that she doesn't fall out of love with him even after what he tells her but it deepens their connection.  (I remember Susanna Thompson said in an interview that Felicity telling Oliver about Thea's parentage strengthened their connection but I didn't see it on screen.)  Personally, I don't think Felicity will fall out of love with him at all (at least not this season), she'll just give up waiting for him to get his act together, if she does date Ray at all. (Remember, she never actually dated Barry for all the chemistry! promoting the EPs did.)  Berlanti is saying in his interview that they have to do what's best for the characters and that Oliver's love life will hopefully be a multi-year arc.

 

SA has been talking about the team visiting Central City and learning about something there that came out first in s2.  I think that's Oliver's child, so I think that we won't meet the child, or maybe even hear about him till ep 8.  In spite of ARGUS' power, I still have my doubts that Amanda Waller is going to tell Oliver about the kid.  Threaten Tommy's life unless Oliver does what she wants, yes, that's probable.

Edited July 28, 2014 by statsgirl

[dtissagirl]

I don't think she is gonna fall out of love with him on spot, though? More like Oliver is afraid to tell her whatever it is because he thinks she's gonna hate him for it.

 

Add me to the list of folks now SUPER CURIOUS about the Hong Kong flashbacks. And I kinda hate flashbacks on principle. DAMMIT, SHOW.

Edited July 28, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Password]

I'd say I'm equal parts afraid and delighted about the conversation and arc that will take place in s3 for both of them. With the way spoilers are coming out we may have an even better grasp by next week just what Oliver has to say/hide. For even the possibility of Felicity falling out of love he'd have to have done something heinous that either affects her directly or affects her emotionally.

 

But Felicity is one of those good women who stand by their men (not in the way Laurel did, Felicity has self respect). It makes me even more curious about this Ray fellow. I'm really glad he'll pick up on her talents because she is the bomb dot com when it comes to technology and computers.

 

 

I don't think she is gonna fall out of love with him on spot, though? More like Oliver is afraid to tell her whatever it is because he thinks she's gonna hate him for it.

 

Add me to the list of folks now SUPER CURIOUS about the Hong Kong flashbacks. And I kinda hate flashbacks on principle. DAMMIT, SHOW.

 

I'm also really interested in the Hong Kong flashbacks because I really think they will give us a good idea of what the hell Oliver was up to during his 5 years marooned. I just know this will be en emotionally taxing season.

Edited July 28, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[Tangerine]

I love this idea? Oliver's had very little impulse control about his sex life up to this point, and one interesting thing about becoming a responsible adult could be him deciding to NOT do that anymore. And it's okay if it starts as a way to prove himself to Felicity, but it brings him character development as well if it's a choice he makes that ends up being emotionally healthier for him. One of my friends told me a few months ago she wished S3 would be the Year of Celibacy for Oliver, and now it looks like she might have had a point.

 

I would like to see the Year of Celibacy for Oliver, and I think that's the only thing that makes sense since we're FINALLY going to see Oliver accept the fact that he's in love with this brilliant and remarkable woman. I agree with SA that the parade of women for Oliver needs to stop, but that being said, I'm not totally opposed to seeing Oliver in a meaningful relationship with someone else temporarily (someone else we haven't seen, that isn't a Lance, please and thank you,) If only at least to help him evolve from being so emotionally stunted and get to a point where he can accept the fact that despite whatever terrible things he might have done, he deserves happiness. There's also a chance that it might undermine Oliver's feelings for Felicity, so I guess I'm rather torn about it. I suppose part of me is just really protective of Felicity and doesn't want her to go through the emotional roller coaster that will be a relationship with Oliver right now, but want them to get there eventually, which means A LOT of growth on Oliver's part. 

 

I feel somewhat cheated that the show will start so many months after the beach conversation though. Can you imagine how long Oliver must have been thinking/stewing on this whole thing before FINALLY asking her out? I want to see that!

Edited July 28, 2014 by Tangerine

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

AnalyzeAndCritique, I think that Guggenheim was saying that she doesn't fall out of love with him even after what he tells her but it deepens their connection.  (I remember Susanna Thompson said in an interview that Felicity telling Oliver about Thea's parentage strengthened their connection but I didn't see it on screen.)  Personally, I don't think Felicity will fall out of love with him at all (at least not this season), she'll just give up waiting for him to get his act together, if she does date Ray at all. (Remember, she never actually dated Barry for all the chemistry! promoting the EPs did.)  Berlanti is saying in his interview that they have to do what's best for the characters and that Oliver's love life will hopefully be a multi-year arc.

 

SA has been talking about the team visiting Central City and learning about something there that came out first in s2.  I think that's Oliver's child, so I think that we won't meet the child, or maybe even hear about him till ep 8.  In spite of ARGUS' power, I still have my doubts that Amanda Waller is going to tell Oliver about the kid.  Threaten Tommy's life unless Oliver does what she wants, yes, that's probable.

"Look, I think they’re in love with each other, and when you’re in love with someone, it’s very hard for the person you love (Oliver) to tell you something that’s going to make you (Felicity) fall out of love with them instantaneously, but that emotionally intimacy deepens their relationship. Deepens their connection." 

 

I see what you're saying. I guess I'd have asked for clarification from MG. I can see where Oliver is scared to tell Felicity every aspect of his past. Even his past before the island isn't something you want to admit to someone you love. I took his statement in the context whatever Oliver tells Felicity is what stalls the Olicity train. It doesn't completely derail despite the "fall out of love with them instantaneously" portion of his statement. However, I don't think the EPs are stupid enough to do another "because of the life I lead" so I was expecting Oliver to attempt to shock Felicity so he wouldn't have to give her that speech again.

 

Waiting sucks!

[apinknightmare]

I don't think she is gonna fall out of love with him on spot, though? More like Oliver is afraid to tell her whatever it is because he thinks she's gonna hate him for it.

 

Add me to the list of folks now SUPER CURIOUS about the Hong Kong flashbacks. And I kinda hate flashbacks on principle. DAMMIT, SHOW.

 

Yeah, I think MG was saying that it's difficult for him to be honest with her because he thinks whatever it is he tells her will make her fall out of love with him, but he's going to tell her whatever it is because he doesn't want to risk losing her over it later. I just want to go on record that I hope it's not anything like 's scenario. Please, PLEASE don't let whatever it is he's worried about be something awful that pertains to Felicity. That would be terrible in so many ways.

 

I think that while Oliver may believe in the fact that he's a hero, he's not quite made peace with all of the things he did while he was away for those five years. He's the king of self-loathing, and I mean, Felicity already knows that he's killed. Is anything that he could've done while working for Waller under the threat of his life or the lives of people he loves any worse? I think (okay, hope) that he's not ready to believe that he's worthy of being loved the way a person like Felicity would love him. And I'm just going to cling to MG's comments that her reaction is interesting. Whatever he tells her, she knows, she knows, oh please let her know already.

[Password]

The derailment of Olicity this year seems more like romantic derailment than their emotional connection. Which is wonderful because I think Oliver and Felicity are so much more than "I love you buu". They have a serious Oliver and Felicity storyline to help their growth. I'm finally getting excited for Oliver's emotional journey after the disaster of season 2 part 2.

 

That said I agree with @Tangerine because I also feel cheated out of Oliver's manpaining over his feelings for Felicity. I maintain I think the ILY scene was like a life check for Oliver because he ignored his feelings for her for a long time.

 

Did anyone see that Felicity says something along the lines of "There aren't any cameras around now."? Gotta love Miss Sass. Onwards, and I hope upwards.

Edited July 28, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[dtissagirl]

All of these Oliver/Felicity 4eva spoilers are making me want to to buy the Arrow: Season 2.5 digital comics that start coming out in September. MAYBE this is their evil plot! Here DC Comics, I keep trying to quit you, but lemme give you my moneys again.

[apinknightmare]

So, I was just watching Unthinkable again, and I always thought it was so weird that Oliver was just standing there goading Slade while he was holding a sword to Felicity's throat, and I was thinking about the interviews I've read over the past couple of days and found it interesting when Oliver said this about Shado:

 

"I remember her being beautiful, young, kind. And she would be horrified by what you've done in her name."

 

I wonder if Oliver goes batshit when Felicity gets hurt, like...full-on Slade-esque revenge mode. He killed Vertigo for her once, and I'm guessing he almost kills the new Vertigo for her again, and that probably "scares the shit out of him," like SA said.

 

 

They have a serious Oliver and Felicity storyline to help their growth. I'm finally getting excited for Oliver's emotional journey after the disaster of season 2 part 2.

 

I agree. The writers seem to put a LOT of care into this relationship, and Oliver and Felicity's journeys have the potential to be very powerful if done correctly.

 

 

That said I agree with Tangerine because I also feel cheated out of Oliver's manpaining over his feelings for Felicity. I maintain I think the ILY scene was like a life check for Oliver because he ignored his feelings for her for a long time.

 

I bet some of this is going to be incorporated into those Season 2.5 digital comics they're releasing. It'd surely be a way to get all the shippers they've just whipped into a frenzy to go out and buy them.

Edited July 29, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Password]

I bet some of this is going to be incorporated into those Season 2.5 digital comics they're releasing. It'd surely be a way to get all the shippers they've just whipped into a frenzy to go out and buy them.

 

It spells problems for me because I am invested in their relationship and will inevitably buy the comic.

[statsgirl]

I see what you're saying. I guess I'd have asked for clarification from MG. I can see where Oliver is scared to tell Felicity every aspect of his past. Even his past before the island isn't something you want to admit to someone you love. I took his statement in the context whatever Oliver tells Felicity is what stalls the Olicity train. It doesn't completely derail despite the "fall out of love with them instantaneously" portion of his statement. However, I don't think the EPs are stupid enough to do another "because of the life I lead" so I was expecting Oliver to attempt to shock Felicity so he wouldn't have to give her that speech again.

 

LOL, we're so demanding.  We get a statement from SA that Felicity is the only woman in Oliver's life this season, and 24 hours later, we want even more proof from MG.

 

This show has always done everything through Oliver's prism. I think what stalls the Olicity train is not Felicity (although Oliver is afraid she might), but whatever happens with the attack by Count Vertigo and Oliver's decision that comes from that.

Yeah, I think MG was saying that it's difficult for him to be honest with her because he thinks whatever it is he tells her will make her fall out of love with him, but he's going to tell her whatever it is because he doesn't want to risk losing her over it later. I just want to go on record that I hope it's not anything like 's scenario. Please, PLEASE don't let whatever it is he's worried about be something awful that pertains to Felicity. That would be terrible in so many ways.

 

I think that while Oliver may believe in the fact that he's a hero, he's not quite made peace with all of the things he did while he was away for those five years. He's the king of self-loathing, and I mean, Felicity already knows that he's killed. Is anything that he could've done while working for Waller under the threat of his life or the lives of people he loves any worse? I think (okay, hope) that he's not ready to believe that he's worthy of being loved the way a person like Felicity would love him. And I'm just going to cling to MG's comments that her reaction is interesting. Whatever he tells her, she knows, she knows, oh please let her know already.

Just like Felicity was afraid in Heir to the Demon that telling Oliver the truth would cause him to back away from her, I think here Oliver is afraid that what he is going to tell her is going to cause her to back away.  (Oliver/Felicity parallel!)  I can't see her doing it though, she's already seen the island and the scars and Slade and she'll always believed in the chance for redemption, even for Slade.

 

I can see him spending the last five months worrying if and what he should tell her,and in the end it's his self-loathing and self-flagellation (maybe almost killing again, as pinknighmare said) that causes him to back away from her. It would be consistent with his character, and consistent with how he goes after anyone (the Count, Helena) who hurts Felicity.  If he can't trust himself and he doesn't want Diggle there because he needs to keep Diggle safe, he can't let himself be involved with Felicity.

Edited July 29, 2014 by statsgirl