Spoiler Discussion Thread

[wonderwall]

Hey Marc! Hope you are feeling better! I'm confused; will Flash 1x18 be happening chronologically before arrow 3x18? I understand there was a problem with the network.

 

marcguggenheim answered:

Yeah, Flash 118 takes place prior to Arrow 318.

 

I'M PUTTING THE RAYLICITY BREAKUP IN EPISODE 18 BACK ON THE TABLE HALLELUJAH. It's sad how this is the best news I've gotten about the show so far

Edited March 31, 2015 by wonderwall

[Guest]

Chronologically, it's kind of strange to have Flash 118 before Arrow 318 considering how 317 ended with Ray about to be injured. They must have added that part later. 

 

I'M PUTTING THE RAYLICITY BREAKUP IN EPISODE 18 BACK ON THE TABLE HALLELUJAH. It's sad how this is the best news I've gotten about the show so far

 

I want this as much as you but what makes you say this? They only reaffirmed their 'true partnership' bleugh in 317. Breaking up the next episode seems strange to me. The sooner the better but would this happen when Ray's injured? I don't know...

Edited March 31, 2015 by Guest

[Password]

Weird. The Flash ep 17 happens tonight. Arrow ep 18 happens tonight...so Felicity and Ray go to CC and then return and then Ray gets injured...tonight. Man they messed up.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Password

[Guest]

When are Ray and Felicity headed to CC?

 

In Flash 118, which in-universe takes place before Arrow 318. But that doesn't really make sense after how 317 ended. Airing them out of order is all messed up.

[Password]

Why did The flash have an extra week off? Would've been easier to sink things yes?

[foreverevolving]

I think they should have had Arrow take this week off so they could catch up on the timelines.

[BkWurm1]

I think they should have had Arrow take this week off so they could catch up on the timelines.

Per MG they just don't have that kind of control over scheduling. 

[Hook75]

I'M PUTTING THE RAYLICITY BREAKUP IN EPISODE 18 BACK ON THE TABLE HALLELUJAH. It's sad how this is the best news I've gotten about the show so far

 

 

Sadly, I think R&F will end the season still together and he may even propose, leaving us with Felicity's answer as a cliffhanger.

[Morrigan2575]

I think they should have had Arrow take this week off so they could catch up on the timelines.

scheduling is on the CW, show runners have no control over that On any network. A network can schedule shows to run when they want them too and they can chose what episodes to air when. Networks are notorious for running episodes (eespecially on new shows) out of order.

[Velocity23]

 

Sadly, I think R&F will end the season still together and he may even propose, leaving us with Felicity's answer as a cliffhanger.

How will they do that with BR not even on the North American continent?

[Ariah]

How will they do that with BR not even on the North American continent?

A sat-phone proposal ;)

 

Just joking.

[Genki]

I feel like Ray could ask Felicity to come with him to Spin-off City for the finale, but I don't think it will go as far as a marriage proposal.

[apinknightmare]

I hate the idea that Oliver would deliberately out himself as the Arrow. 

 

I didn't think that he would out himself, I thought Quentin would out him once he found out he was the Arrow. 

[quarks]

It's very possible that the original plan was:

 

Arrow, 317, ending on Oliver and Diggle's talk in the Arrowcave (that entire scene played out as a nice coda to the episode, although I still think Oliver should have brought up Ray in that conversation.  

 

Flash, 118, realizing that if Oliver could take down Ray's suit with one quick throw, it's not really going to be that hard for others to take Ray out (you failed this superhero thing, Ray), Felicity and Ray head over to Central City.

 

Arrow 318, Supersuit fixed, Felicity and Ray return to Starling City: the episode starts with the attack on the mayor's office. Ray ends up in the hospital.

 

Instead, for reasons that will almost certainly not become clear later, the attack on the mayor's office was moved to the end of 317, which explains why portions of the wedding felt truncated (I'm pretty sure extended scenes for that are coming on the DVD).  A couple of people also noted that some lines seemed to have been cut from one of the Felicity/Ray scenes, which is possible. 

[Velocity23]

I am just gonna say that the Flash crossover happens between 3x16 & 3x17. And i am sticking with it. Aparently 2 weeks passed during those episodes. And they went to CC to fix the non working lasers.

[Chaser]

I was pretty convinced the break up would happen in 3x18 after the visit to CC. I thought the 'what constitutes an Olicity scene' could mean the Ray and Felicity break up scene. Since the CC trip is after 3x18, I'm wondering if that was apart of the script tweaking. They pushed the break up to 3x19.  Or they were never meant to end in 3x18 and the scene is just Mama Smoak making Felicity think. Or they are still breaking up..

 

Either way, I think the crossover is going to be totally off. I'm going to watch it for Felicity interacting with Bug-Eyes (her nemesis, not you know who) and her interactions with the Flash crew. But I think I'm going to watch it as a standalone episode and try not to think to hard.

Edited March 31, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Velocity23]

The trip to CC is before 3x18 though. Though the episode will air after the 3x18 episode.

[Chaser]

The trip to CC is before 3x18 though. Though the episode will air after the 3x18 episode.

This is why I don't think too hard. I get confused.

[tv echo]

For how long, though?  At what point is this just how they are now?  I see zero reason to think S4 will be any better, when the whole writing staff will be the same.  

If anything, season 4 could be worse since the EPs' attention will be even more divided among Arrow, Flash, the spin-off, and even Supergirl.

[Morrigan2575]

This is why I don't think too hard. I get confused.

That is really confusing.  CW really screwed up with their schedule change and hell, they even had time to fix it...just have Flash air next week instead of taking a break then 118/318 would line up again.  However, for some reason they want Flash and SPN finales to air a week after Arrow.  I have no idea what's going on with Originals and Vampire Diaries schedules.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

If they break up in 3.18 no one will ever be able to convince me it's not partially because of network pressure.  That is a VERY short relationship.  Much shorter than O/S.

[Chaser]

I'm in the Done by 3x20 At Least Camp. For the very scientific reason that SA had a smug smile when asked about the Ray and Felicity relationship. Dude looked like he got the girl. 

 

A short relationship would support the EPs claims that its not a love triangle between Oliver/Felicity/Ray, it's between Oliver/Felicity/Arrow. It does however highlight that all the attention on Palmer wasn't for Felicity, but for his own spin-off.

[Morrigan2575]

James Bamford @JamesBamford  ·  9h 9 hours ago

Oh no she didn't??!!???! If you just saw what I just saw!

 

TV Echo Said: We know that they've had at least a concept meeting for 3x23 - so what could this mean?

 

I wonder if this is tied to something with Katrina Law/Nyssa?  I saw a tweet from her husband on another board.

 

@keithandreen: I just got a photo from a certain girl on a particular set that made my jaw hit the floor. Possibly the coolest set photo EVER.

@keithandreen: The fans of this particular show had better hold onto their effin' hats for the end of this season. Err mah gurd.

These tweets were about 11 hours ago, so it could be connected.  KL might have set him a pic of the set they were getting ready to film on and then BamBam posted something while/after they filmed the stunt?

Edited March 31, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

Cool, maybe Oliver and Nyssa really do team up to take down Ra's. I love Nyssa and KL is fantastic.

[nksarmi]

If they wanted to keep the pacing of Felicity and Ray going to CC in between 3.17 and 3.18 - they should not have added that bit at the mayor's office to the end of the episode.  Now it will appear as if they go over after this coming episode because that is how it will air.  So they can't break up in 3.18 (not that I thought they would) because that would make zero sense to most fans and they have to accommodate viewers who don't look at websites and such. 

 

However, I'm not entirely sure that Felicity and Ray will break up at all this season.  I think rather or not this happens depends entirely on rather or not Oliver is still part of the LoA at the end of the season.  If Oliver is not a wanted man in SC at the end of the season AND he has escaped Ras and they haven't killed a character like Roy that would make him more morose - then maybe Felicity and Ray will break up, Ray will move, Oliver will get his company back, and Olicity will begin again in the summer comics.

 

BUT I don't believe that is where they are going to leave the season.  I suspect the season will end with Oliver part of the LoA and possibly a wanted man in SC (Though I just don't see how this works in the long run, because for goodness sakes, mayors don't give pardons!  And you can't unring the bell if Oliver is exposed, he would have to be arrested and found not guilty at least.  When Tony Stark did the whole I am Iron Man thing - he had billions to back him up and he hadn't killed anyone.  Oliver Queen is a different story right now.) So anyway, if they end the season with Oliver part of the LoA, I believe Felicity will be with Ray. 

 

What I think is likely to happen is Ray will tell Felicity to go figure out what Oliver is to her (ie give her an out) and then let him know if she wants him or not.  Felicity will go with Oliver on whatever his mission is that wraps up the season and Oliver will leave her.  Once he does, she will go all in with Ray and I could see a proposal in that as well.

 

I would say we could get a time jump between seasons, but that would make the show not line up with Flash (unless they did one as well) AND we know they are already casting for a character that will be introduced this season and be a villain next year.  Still, I could see them doing one if they really wanted to remake the basis of the show.

[quarks]

If they break up in 3.18 no one will ever be able to convince me it's not partially because of network pressure.  That is a VERY short relationship.  Much shorter than O/S.

 

Actually, my guess is that the Ray/Felicity relationship, not the coming breakup, happened because of network pressure, as part of establishing that Ray could be a romantic lead for the spinoff, because of the CW's love triangle brand, and to establish Felicity as the official main love interest, somewhat equalizing her on screen relationships.

 

Also, as I noted back in this thread, if you count the Ray/Felicity relationship as starting in episode 307 - their kiss - this relationship has already lasted for ten episodes, longer than all of the other romantic block/temporary relationships on Arrow, including Oliver/Sara (which ran from episode 213 to 220 - seven episodes), and considerably longer than Oliver/McKenna, Oliver/Helena, Thea/that DJ, Laurel/Sebastian Blood, Laurel/the ADA. The only exceptions are Shado/Oliver in the flashbacks (120 to 209, most of which was spent rushing around the island trying not to die), Diggle/Carly (which ran from 111 to 123, 12 episodes, with Carly not appearing in most of these episodes) and Laurel/Tommy (who broke up in 120).  

[dtissagirl]

They seem to be testing Palmer in every possible situation. I wonder how much money they invested in both Routh and the suit, really, because it feels like they're bending over backwards to do prep-work for Palmer and the spinoff.

 

Flash 118 is gonna test if he works well as a team player. Arrow 319 will most likely show how does he work with someone reluctant to work with him [Oliver]. That's basically the two things I can surmise from the spin-off roster: a team of people that might not be all that willing to work together.

Edited March 31, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Sunshine]

Since you do NOT have to watch a crossover episode to understand what is going on in either show the only people likely to be confused by the timeline are those watching both shows.  I don't think the suit comes into play again until 3.19 so Arrow only viewers probably won't even wonder how the suit was repaired.  They'll just assume it happened off screen unless told differently.  The whole purpose of the trip to CC is to introduce Flash viewers to Ray/ATOM. Felicity is the bridge between the two shows. 

 

I just really want to know when do Thea and Felicity start sharing scenes?!

 

@dancingnancy - I think the must have invested quite a bit in the suit.  What I wonder is were they always going to attempt a spinoff or did they decide to go there after Routh auditioned for the part?

[SonofaBiscuit]

I see no way in which the season ends with Ray and Felicity together.  Ray is leaving for the spin-off, and I can't imagine that lots of Olicity fans would pay money to watch Roadblock Ray continue to get in the way of Oliver and Felicity in the 3.5 comics.    

[dtissagirl]

@dancingnancy - I think the must have invested quite a bit in the suit.  What I wonder is were they always going to attempt a spinoff or did they decide to go there after Routh auditioned for the part?

 

Not sure, but there has been media buzz for a spinoff ever since Routh was cast. As late as the TCA Winter tour in January, Pedowitz was vaguely talking about a spinoff "around the ATOM character", not a superhero team-up.

 

It's now become clear that they were testing the viability of a team-up with the people they took to that messy TCA panel, but I've always figured Routh is headlining it because I have no doubt they paid him some substantial dough. And perhaps promised him something else? Maybe his Arrow contract included some sort of guarantee on the spinoff, I don't know. But they're bending backwards to make Palmer happen, that's for sure.

Edited March 31, 2015 by dancingnancy

[foreverevolving]

I keep on wondering if I should skip Flash this week and just watch it in sync with next weeks arrow (it's supposed to be 1x18-3x18 that's the crossover and post episode right? so it's this week flash and next week arrow?, or the other way around?

I'm sure someone asked the ep's about this, but I don't have the time to look for it now or while at work. is there even a point, I wish I knew how much they changed once learning about the schedule thing so I'll know if I should even hold on a week before watching flash.

[kismet]

I know this is not the butterness thread, but can I just vent a little how exhausted I am that Ray, ATOM, and Raylicity is sucking up so much time & space on the show?? Its just become all about making him work and its just not working for me. I mean there is so much more going on, but it seems like Ray is just sucking up all the oxygen in the room. Its a testament to how poorly they've established Ras as the big bad. and how much the crossovers are just causing more chaos. I mean the timelines are all other the place that everytime I read a new post or spoiler, it just gets more convoluted. If the CW is going to use crossovers to cross-market for audience growth, they should at least try to respect the timeline. I mean what is up with the CW this year their airing of shows have been wonky all season?

 

If they reveal OQ as the Arrow, the writers will be causing more problems for themselves down the road. Half the fun of watching a superhero show is watching them try to keep the world from knowing who they are. Especially when you have SA who can do subtle acting. The big reveal in IronMan only worked because it was a movie and RDJ is just that big of a character that it works. OQ ego is big, but its not flashy not since he returned from the island. As for Raylicity, if there is a R/F proposal it will just be ridiculous with the spin-off coming down the pike. There is no suspense in if the marriage will occur. The show needs to focus back on what they do best angsty romantic dramas are not their thing. They seem to be failing royally at this whole IDENTITY issue themselves. At least OQ had 5 yrs of torture for his excuse, whats the writers'? They're slowly sucking the lifeblood out of the show. It was mentioned that the focus on Olicity this season has been toxic to the characters and I have to agree. The actual Olicity relationship is not toxic, but the influence on the writers have been toxic. The characters have all become melodramatic versions of themselves.

[apinknightmare]

I keep on wondering if I should skip Flash this week and just watch it in sync with next weeks arrow (it's supposed to be 1x18-3x18 that's the crossover and post episode right? so it's this week flash and next week arrow?, or the other way around?

I'm sure someone asked the ep's about this, but I don't have the time to look for it now or while at work. is there even a point, I wish I knew how much they changed once learning about the schedule thing so I'll know if I should even hold on a week before watching flash.

1x18 airs after 3x18, even though 1x18 happens before 3x18 time-wise. Not sure how much sense it'll make because it seems like 3x18 picks up where 3x17 left off, so it's not like they had time for a trip to CC in there.

[quarks]

It seems possible that Berlanti or someone at DC may have been thinking about a third spinoff as far back as April/May 2014, or at least by June 2014, which is why Routh was hired for the part of Ray Palmer, instead of an established but generally unknown actor like Colin Donnell or Kevin Alejandro. However, that's pure speculation on my part.

 

@foreverevolving, my inner seven year old says that tonight's episode of The Flash is going to be the coolest most awesome episode ever because Mark Hamill.  I think many (ok, most) people would disagree, but MARK HAMILL! I also recognize that this is a classic YMMV :)

[BkWurm1]

That is really confusing. CW really screwed up with their schedule change and hell, they even had time to fix it...just have Flash air next week instead of taking a break then 118/318 would line up again. However, for some reason they want Flash and SPN finales to air a week after Arrow. I have no idea what's going on with Originals and Vampire Diaries schedules.

I think March Madness and not wanting to compete against the basket ball games probably prompted the episode shift for the most part.

I keep on wondering if I should skip Flash this week and just watch it in sync with next weeks arrow (it's supposed to be 1x18-3x18 that's the crossover and post episode right? so it's this week flash and next week arrow?, or the other way around?

I'm sure someone asked the ep's about this, but I don't have the time to look for it now or while at work. is there even a point, I wish I knew how much they changed once learning about the schedule thing so I'll know if I should even hold on a week before watching flash.

I've read that there isn't anything in 1.17 that could be confusing since there isn't any kind of crossover between the shows in that episode but 1.18 and beyond I worry about. Is everything on Flash just something that happened the week before on Arrow or do they ever alone the shows before the season is done.

You'd have to not watch this week's Arrow until after 1.18 to synch it at least initially, not the other way around.

Oh and Mark Hamill is totally cool. He did the most delicious Joker on the Batman Animated series. Can't wait to see him tap into some of that crazy for this new villain (which I understand is a reprise of a character he played on the first Flash series. )

Edited March 31, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Morrigan2575]

I think March Madness and not wanting to compete against the basket ball games probably prompted the episode shift for the most part.

 

The NCAA Championship game ends on Monday 4/6, so that wasn't a factor.

[nksarmi]

I see no way in which the season ends with Ray and Felicity together.  Ray is leaving for the spin-off, and I can't imagine that lots of Olicity fans would pay money to watch Roadblock Ray continue to get in the way of Oliver and Felicity in the 3.5 comics.    

But what will the comics be if Oliver is in the LoA or a hunted man in SC?  Ray and Felicity together doesn't mean there won't be olicity scenes in the comics - heck, they could even do the break up IN the comics.  I just think Oliver going to the League could easily mean Felicity staying with Ray.  Plus, the spin-off is currently being talked about as a mid-season show to air when Arrow/Flash break so I think they have time in early season four to break Ray and Felicity up if they need them separated before the spin-off begins.  That would let them do the cliff hanger of Oliver in the LoA and Team Arrow separated, bring them all back together somehow early in season four, and still have Felicity and Ray broken up before the spin-off airs.

[TanyaKay]

 

arrowlogy asked:You said there´d be another wedding this season. Im guessing bouquet and fern?

MG: It will not be an inter-plant wedding.

 

Sometimes I weep for humanity!

I mean why do people ask these questions!

Edited March 31, 2015 by TanyaKay

[Sunshine]

@nksarmi - Hasn't Ray as love interest served his purpose on Arrow already?  Isn't that purpose to make Oliver reconsider his stance?  What is the point of keeping Ray & Felicity together into S4?  They could do it.  I'm just not sure what the narrative purpose would be.  If Oliver is with LOA and the rest of the team is in SC wouldn't they be working more on solidifying the team and fighting crime than a romantic storyline?  If he's on the run, I would think most of them would be involved in helping him in some capacity.   It just seems to me that Ray doesn't have much screen time beyond 3.19 even if he's in every episode between now and 3.23.  He may work with Team Arrow.  (I am under the impression from what little I know that Ray Palmer is more a reluctant hero than a gung ho one.) Felicity may continue working at PT although they've never really showed that.  Most of those scenes were about her admiring Ray or Oliver walking in on something to advance his man pain.  Heck, unless the wedding is Oliver & Nyssa, Ray could be the celebrant so maybe 3.17 isn't completely ridiculous..  The only couple he can't marry is himself and someone else.

 

MG said they aren't setting up the spin-off in 3.23.  He also said earlier that 3.23 would set-up S4.

 

I wish I had an idea of where 3.20-3.23 were going!  I know bits and pieces but not enough to put anything together.

[TanyaKay]

It's very possible that the original plan was:

 

Arrow, 317, ending on Oliver and Diggle's talk in the Arrowcave (that entire scene played out as a nice coda to the episode, although I still think Oliver should have brought up Ray in that conversation.  

 

Flash, 118, realizing that if Oliver could take down Ray's suit with one quick throw, it's not really going to be that hard for others to take Ray out (you failed this superhero thing, Ray), Felicity and Ray head over to Central City.

 

Arrow 318, Supersuit fixed, Felicity and Ray return to Starling City: the episode starts with the attack on the mayor's office. Ray ends up in the hospital.

 

Instead, for reasons that will almost certainly not become clear later, the attack on the mayor's office was moved to the end of 317, which explains why portions of the wedding felt truncated (I'm pretty sure extended scenes for that are coming on the DVD).  A couple of people also noted that some lines seemed to have been cut from one of the Felicity/Ray scenes, which is possible. 

 

Not sure about Ray/Felicity scene but yes, the whole wedding sequence looked incredibly choppy to me. I mean they had Thea all decked up in a nice dress and they did not even give her a single dialogue? They had to pay her for the episode appearance right?

The second one was Ray and Oliver Queen scene where in the middle of the argument, Oliver tells Palmer that he has no idea what the city is up against and then leaves. I thought a couple of lines were missing.

[Morrigan2575]

Not sure about Ray/Felicity scene but yes, the whole wedding sequence looked incredibly choppy to me. I mean they had Thea all decked up in a nice dress and they did not even give her a single dialogue? They had to pay her for the episode appearance right?

The second one was Ray and Oliver Queen scene where in the middle of the argument, Oliver tells Palmer that he has no idea what the city is up against and then leaves. I thought a couple of lines were missing.

Series regular's get paid for the episodes they're contracted for whether they appear or not.  So, no they didn't have to pay Willa to appear in this episode, she was getting paid for it whether she was in the episode or not.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

 

 

Actually, my guess is that the Ray/Felicity relationship, not the coming breakup, happened because of network pressure, as part of establishing that Ray could be a romantic lead for the spinoff, because of the CW's love triangle brand, and to establish Felicity as the official main love interest, somewhat equalizing her on screen relationships.

Also, as I noted back in this thread, if you count the Ray/Felicity relationship as starting in episode 307 - their kiss -

NO ONE can convince me!

 

Seriously, though, there's no way their actual romantic relationship started in 307.  One kiss does not a relationship make.  If it did, I've had like 1000 relationships in my life.  The tail end of 315-318 is extremely short.

[statsgirl]

Sadly, I think R&F will end the season still together and he may even propose, leaving us with Felicity's answer as a cliffhanger.

I think even if this were the plan, the audience reaction to Raylicity would have made them change it.  There would still be time, they're shooting 3x22 now, and there's 3x23 in production.

 

The latest TV line spoilers column had about 100 comments on the problems with Arrow this season, and as far as I can see, not one person liked Raylicity. The show has really taken a hit on that relationship.  Leaving it as a  cliff-hanger would lose not only those who like Olicity, but those who like Ray/Atom.

[AyChihuahua]

 

The show has really taken a hit on that relationship.

All over Tumblr and elsewhere he's called "Rag Pampers," "Roadblock Ray," "Tin Can Iron Man," "Mayonnaise in a Can," and "Fuckboy Palmer."  It's astounding how hated he is, and I honestly think it's not all bc of the stupid triangle.

 

Mods, please note that I am reporting, not bashing. 

[nksarmi]

Sunshine - well I prefer not to look at characters quite like the EPs seem to lately so I don't think a character has "served their purpose" until their story is told.  To me, they have a lot to do to transition Ray's story.  I don't think Felicity will break up with Ray in the hospital and have Ray be the hero in episode 19.  So that to me says the earliest the break up will happen is 20.

 

By episode 19, I expect we will have all we need for Ray to be the hero ATOM.  I'm sure if they make him shrink, they will save that for the spin-off.  But there are still things that need to be resolved with Ray - even if they are done off screen.

 

First, Oliver has learned nothing from Ray and Felicity - he insists they will split up in the future and Felicity will get hurt. So the only way they can counteract Oliver's opinion is by showing Ray and Felicity working and that has not happened yet and will not be served by a breakup.  If their relationship continues to next season, but they just break up because of distance (MG teased long-distance relationship but we don't know where this new show will be based as of yet.  I hope not in SC, but who knows if Arrow will be in SC next season!?!?) or some other reason - then Oliver has reason to question his doom and gloom beliefs.

 

Second, Oliver needs to get his company back and become Oliver Queen again.  At least, I need him to do this before I will ever believe he and Felicity can be together.  Oliver MUST learn to be both or I don't know how much longer I can enjoy this show lol.  Plus for continuity to make me happy, I need Oliver or Thea owning Queen Consolidated so that the newspaper clipping from Flash of the Queen/Wayne merger can make sense.  Of course, if they out Oliver as the Arrow - I don't know how he can ever be BOTH again so I am hoping so much that is not where we are going with this plot.  I don't mind Quentin knowing since I'm 99% sure he will die with that knowledge sooner rather than later, but I don't want Oliver a hunted man even if the Arrow is.  I could see them having Ray just give the company back no matter how much that defies logic because that's just something Ray would do - but I don't think it would happen until after Oliver comes back from being part of the LoA.

 

Third, I have not yet seen any reason on screen for Felicity to break up with Ray.  I would count him electrocuting Roy as a reason, but since the EPs have said they screwed up by not addressing that - I think Roy was just suppose to pop up a-ok.  Everyone (actors) is talking about how Felicity is starting to love Ray and someone (fan) pointed out they probably couldn't resist a scene with him flying her around ala Superman and that's probably true.  As Oliver pulls away and joins the LoA, I fully expect Ray and Felicity to grow closer.  That makes sense narratively speaking even if it doesn't work logistically for the show.

 

Fourth, Ray has to be part of this "Oliver sees that there are plenty of heroes to protect the city and that plays into his decision to become RAs" plot.  If Oliver joins the LoA and basically rubberstamps Ray as one of the heroes of the city - then why would Felicity break up with him?  Do we really think that Felicity will go and live in NP? Neither Oliver nor Ras would let that happen.  Felicity will stay in SC - the only question remains when will Oliver return, at the end of the season or beginning of season four?

 

Basically what I am saying is - I would not expect Felicity and Ray to breakup with Oliver leaving.  Narratively speaking, she would turn to Ray to deal with the loss of Oliver is nothing else.  I don't believe the break up will happen until Oliver returns and if that stretches into season four - they have time in the spin-off to wait since I don't believe it will begin concurrently to Arrow season four.

Edited March 31, 2015 by nksarmi

[lexicon]

All over Tumblr and elsewhere he's called "Rag Pampers," "Roadblock Ray," "Tin Can Iron Man," "Mayonnaise in a Can," and "Fuckboy Palmer."  It's astounding how hated he is, and I honestly think it's not all bc of the stupid triangle.

 

Mods, please note that I am reporting, not bashing. 

 

Pitstop Palmer, Crazy Eyes, Creepy Mc Creeperson...are some of the others I've seen

[apinknightmare]

If there isn't a breakup in 3x18 that makes it strange for Felicity to be referring as Ray as her boyfriend in 1x18, then I wonder what exactly is wonky about the timeline that might confuse people about what's going on because of the order in which they're airing? Because MG said the timeline would be wonky. 3x17 seems to lead directly into 3x18 with Maseo shooting at Felicity, so it's not like they took the trip to CC during the week between the Arrow airings. If there's a big time jump and Felicity and Ray go to CC in the middle of the episode, that still wouldn't make it weird. Is it because 3x18 ends in a place where it would be weird for Ray and Felicity to go to CC? Because it would've seemed weird to me for them to go there even with the fake Arrows running around. 

[wonderwall]

If there isn't a breakup in 3x18 that makes it strange for Felicity to be referring as Ray as her boyfriend in 1x18, then I wonder what exactly is wonky about the timeline that might confuse people about what's going on because of the order in which they're airing? Because MG said the timeline would be wonky. 3x17 seems to lead directly into 3x18 with Maseo shooting at Felicity, so it's not like they took the trip to CC during the week between the Arrow airings. If there's a big time jump and Felicity and Ray go to CC in the middle of the episode, that still wouldn't make it weird. Is it because 3x18 ends in a place where it would be weird for Ray and Felicity to go to CC? Because it would've seemed weird to me for them to go there even with the fake Arrows running around. 

 

I'm going to stick with them going to CC right before the wedding and they made it just in time for the wedding and will overlook that Felicity had no knowledge that the suit was working before episode 17. 

[statsgirl]

nksarmi, you make some good points about not having seen from Ray/Felicity what we need to see from them to get Oliver back on track. The problem is that they've had time to do a large part of that but they haven't.  In fact, Ray is even less of a partner to Felicity now than he was two episodes ago, and Oliver is even more adament that you can't be in a relationship and save the city.  (That line was a huge step back in terms of Oliver becoming Oliver  Queen again, unless BkWurm is right and he will end the season entirely Oliver and not the Arrow.

 

The on-screen reason for the break-up could be that she sees he's not a real partner, or he sees that she cares for Oliver. The behind-the-scenes reason is that Raylicity is turning off more people than it is making them tune in to the show.

 

 

I'm going to stick with them going to CC right before the wedding and they made it just in time for the wedding and will overlook that Felicity had no knowledge that the suit was working before episode 17.

But doesn't Ray fly into CC in the suit?

 

The only thing that makes sense to me is that they go after Felicity and Ray  make up at the end of 317 but before his meeting with the mayor.  But the problem with that is that she's wearing the same coat in both scenes, and they wouldn't go to CC before he tells the mayor he was wrong about the real Arrow.

 

It seems strange that Felicity would go to CC while the fake Arrows are running around but maybe they think it's more important to get Ray's suit working safely, and she's not needed to go and fight.

Edited March 31, 2015 by statsgirl

[strikera0]

How will they do that with BR not even on the North American continent?

 

Not that I think it (Ray proposing to Felicity) will happen, but they could easily fly in Brandon Routh for a couple of days while they are filming the season finale.