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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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I know that they are going to address the fact the Laurel puts her own life in danger by jumping into the fold, but they also need to point out that she is putting others lives in danger as well. They need to explain why they are going to trust a 'toddler' that is bravado and little training to cover their backs. 

 

I watched the video of SA reactions to the end of the next five episodes. He sighed at the end of 3.11. That made me laugh because that was general critics reaction to the start of BC.

Edited by 10Eleven12
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I just had the most horrible thought.  If the team returns to Lian Yu for some reason, what if Laurel tags along and gets left behind or "dies."  Then she is picked up by Nyssa and taken back to the LoA to train.  Oh my gosh, this would make me rage so hard.

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I think you're right about a non-romantic love... The only way they can spin it romantically is if someone says I want to be "the" woman you love not "a" woman. And I don't see F & O necessarily being in the right place for that convo in 312.  But who knows with these writers they seem to fluctuate from delicate subtlety to banging you over the head with the obvious.

 

If the line came in 3.13 I'd be sure it belonged to Laurel.

 

Oliver would say something to urge her to give up going out there and cap it with, "I just lost Sara, I can't lose another woman I've loved."  To which Laurel would say, "This isn't about you.  I don't want to be a woman that you love." 

 

But do we have any indication that Oliver interacts at all with Laurel in 3.12?

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they're been coming out late on Thursday

Last year they went on a 2-3 week break in between 313 and 314, and when they do that they usually don't release episode descriptions for however many weeks the hiatus is, so we probably won't get the next one for a couple of weeks, unless there isn't a break between 313 and 314.

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If the line came in 3.13 I'd be sure it belonged to Laurel.

 

Oliver would say something to urge her to give up going out there and cap it with, "I just lost Sara, I can't lose another woman I've loved."  To which Laurel would say, "This isn't about you.  I don't want to be a woman that you love." 

 

But do we have any indication that Oliver interacts at all with Laurel in 3.12?

 

I initially thought it was Laurel too. I suppose he could come back in 3x12 and let her know he doesn't want her on the team, and then 3x13 deals with the fallout of that. The only issue with it being Laurel is that I really think that because Oliver's confessed his love to Felicity this season that if Oliver used his feelings for Laurel as a reason for not wanting her out on the streets fighting, I think he'd tell her he cares about her instead of that he loves her. I think that he does love her, but...I just think there would definitely be a distinction there. So her rebuttal would be "I don't want to be a woman you care about." 

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Last year they went on a 2-3 week break in between 313 and 314, and when they do that they usually don't release episode descriptions for however many weeks the hiatus is, so we probably won't get the next one for a couple of weeks, unless there isn't a break between 313 and 314.

The break last year was because of the Olympics, iirc.

Edited by Princess Vanellope
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I am starting to think end of 3x13 will be on Lian Yu.

 

First post here. Been lurking for a little while reading the comments. Love the vibe. 

I think you are right about Lian Yu.  A few weeks ago, I saw a candid still shot of Willa Holland sitting on the rock wall inside Slade's prison cell around the time they were filming 3X13.  I wish I could find the link again, I'll keep looking.

 

I think Thea and Malcolm go to Lian Yu. Thea has reasons to want to confront Slade. Also, I think the DJ may be Slade's son. He has to have some role to play...    

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I initially thought it was Laurel too. I suppose he could come back in 3x12 and let her know he doesn't want her on the team, and then 3x13 deals with the fallout of that. The only issue with it being Laurel is that I really think that because Oliver's confessed his love to Felicity this season that if Oliver used his feelings for Laurel as a reason for not wanting her out on the streets fighting, I think he'd tell her he cares about her instead of that he loves her. I think that he does love her, but...I just think there would definitely be a distinction there. So her rebuttal would be "I don't want to be a woman you care about."

 

I agree, "care for" is the more likely phrase he'd use, but I tried to equate it to how he felt about Sara since didn't Felicity flat out say that Sara was a woman he loved? (Past tense)  I can't seem to find the exact quote though.  Wasn't there something more specific than "Your Sara"?

 

Edit:  Oh wait, it was Oliver to Barry in the crossover.  He mentioned a woman he loved being murdered in Starling.

Edited by BkWurm1
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I agree, "care for" is the more likely phrase he'd use, but I tried to equate it to how he felt about Sara since didn't Felicity flat out say that Sara was a woman he loved? (Past tense)  I can't seem to find the exact quote though.  Wasn't there something more specific than "Your Sara"?

 

Edit:  Oh wait, it was Oliver to Barry in the crossover.  He mentioned a woman he loved being murdered in Starling.

 

Yeah, but I feel like that was different because it was a) past tense and b) not said directly to her. I just don't feel like they'd have Oliver say, "I don't want you doing this because I love you" or "because you're a woman I love" (which just sounds stupid) to Laurel at this point in time (if ever).

I hope the DJ isn't Slade's son. i know it's a popular theory but i think it just seems kinda random. Like why would he be in Starling City? Slade is Australian. 

 

Unless Slade brought him in on some master plan to finish exacting revenge on Oliver through Thea. Of course, we'd have to wonder how Slade managed to do that from Lian Yu, unless...well, who knows.

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I initially thought it was Laurel too. I suppose he could come back in 3x12 and let her know he doesn't want her on the team, and then 3x13 deals with the fallout of that. The only issue with it being Laurel is that I really think that because Oliver's confessed his love to Felicity this season that if Oliver used his feelings for Laurel as a reason for not wanting her out on the streets fighting, I think he'd tell her he cares about her instead of that he loves her. I think that he does love her, but...I just think there would definitely be a distinction there. So her rebuttal would be "I don't want to be a woman you care about." 

 

Oliver and Laurel already had that conversation in the hospital scene in 306. I had forgotten about it, but reading your post now it felt familiar, so transcripts to the rescue. It went --

 

L: I know you're trying to protect me, Ollie, but I'm not helpless.

 

O: I've never seen you that way. But Laurel, I'm always going to watch out for you. It's not because I think you're helpless. It's because I care about you.

 

Would they repeat it? And this time Laurel just tells him "I don't want to be a woman you love, and I don't need your permission", or something like it?

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Malcolm and Thea on the the island would be a big surprise.

 

However if they are there to get Slade, Malcolm Merlyn (or Dj Douche) better have a lot more mind-control drugs, because I cannot see Thea helping break Slade (The man who abducted her twice and murdered her Mother) out from prison for any reason.

 

Maybe Malcolm takes her to Lian Yu to hide form Ra's or other reasons and then Slade appears. 

Maybe he is helping her understand Oliver's time on the island I don't know, but I just can't accept Thea willingly helping Slade.

Edited by Genki
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I really like the idea of The Return being to Lian Yu rather than Slade just magically showing up in Starling City.  But man, it must have been cold shooting on the island in December.

 

I would be disappointed in Slade as a Big Bad if he didn't still have contacts outside the prison. Or maybe Douche DJ learned about his father being there and deliberately went after Thea in a convoluted plan to get Malcolm to get him out.

 

So to ignore fingerless gloves because "they're cool" does seem like they're not trying or just don't care. If this truly was something KC fought them on and they gave her the fingerless gloves so she could show off her nail polish...it doesn't reflect well on any of them, it also makes me wonder if they care about substance or just flash/style

David Ramsey has said that the EPs are really good about letting the actors have input into their characters and the show.  At this point I think they're just so happy KC is finally taking an interest in her part that they're going to let her have it.  The buckles are silly but if they don't address the leaving behind of fingerprints I'm going to be very disappointed.

 

Billy Joel on Vienna

 

So the metaphor of Vienna has the meaning of a crossroad. It's a place of inter...course, of exchange - it's the place where cultures co-mingle. You get great beer in Vienna but you also get brandy from Armenia. It was a place where cultures co-mingled....

-

I thought 'This is a terrific idea - that old people are useful - and that means I don't have to worry so much about getting old because I can still have a use in this world in my old age. I thought "Vienna waits for you..."

So for him, the two points are 1.  it's a place of exchange and 2.  don't worry so much about the future because it will come out right in the end.

 

 

And after all the talk of Vienna, I really, really want to go there now ....Sacher Torte, kave mit schlag, beautiful rooms, and so much music.

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Laurel has had 3 months of being trained in boxing, and she's already put a mask on. All the talk in earlier seasons about how you can't just wake up and become a hero, and that's essentially what they did.

This is why I've stopped watching.  Insta-Canary pisses me off more than anything in the show.  It has been so much fun watching Oliver, Slade, Malcolm, Shado, Sara, Tatsu, etc., be badasses.  I am a huge action movie fan and love those kinds of characters...the scar-off in Lethal Weapon 3 is one of my favorite scenes ever ("If blood wasn't gushing and no bones were broken, nobody cared.")  But apparently, in this universe all it takes is a few boxing lessons for a 30-year-old female attorney (full-time+ job) to become a badass...which makes Oliver appear really quite slow.    

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Oliver and Laurel already had that conversation in the hospital scene in 306. I had forgotten about it, but reading your post now it felt familiar, so transcripts to the rescue. It went --

 

L: I know you're trying to protect me, Ollie, but I'm not helpless.

 

O: I've never seen you that way. But Laurel, I'm always going to watch out for you. It's not because I think you're helpless. It's because I care about you.

 

Would they repeat it? And this time Laurel just tells him "I don't want to be a woman you love, and I don't need your permission", or something like it?

Thanks for the research! It reminded me of that as well, doubt they would repeat it & infuse it with the word Love. Unless of course, Oliver all the sudden bursts out "Good, cuz I love Felcity" That would be funny but not gonna happen. I personally think that love comment will not be said to O by any female characters. I think Oliver will be accepting to L fighting on the team after the great canary fight. Plus similar to Roy, he will figure out that he can keep her safer if he keeps an eye on her as part of the team as opposed to separate & reckless.

I hope the DJ isn't Slade's son. i know it's a popular theory but i think it just seems kinda random. Like why would he be in Starling City? Slade is Australian. 

Sin was randomly in SC (what were those odds?). So I don't think the writers will find it that far of a stretch to connect him to Slade, if they want to.

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i don't know I just feel it's more likely that he's connected to Malcolm, if there is something "special" or nefarious about him. I guess I'll wait and see but i don't the point of him having a connection to Slade when Slade is only in one episode this season. And wouldn't he have an Australian accent haha? Unless he's hiding it lol.  

Edited by ban1o
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I really like the idea of The Return being to Lian Yu rather than Slade just magically showing up in Starling City.  But man, it must have been cold shooting on the island in December.

 

I would be disappointed in Slade as a Big Bad if he didn't still have contacts outside the prison. Or maybe Douche DJ learned about his father being there and deliberately went after Thea in a convoluted plan to get Malcolm to get him out.

The EPs did hint that the return was not referencing Slade or Oliver returning to SC. So maybe it is the return of the Island. If Slade can't leave then bring the party to Slade. Hope as well that its not a Thea willingly breaking out Slade, but would hate to see her mind-controlled again :( But her rescue from MM's grasp may be something they save for the finale episodes. So we might have to see mc-bad Thea for a bit, but it might be worth it for a good story.

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i don't know I just feel it's more likely that he's connected to Malcolm, if there is something "special" or nefarious about him. I guess I'll wait and see but i don't the point of him having a connection to Slade when Slade is only in one episode this season. And wouldn't he have an Australian accent haha? Unless he's hiding it lol.  

 

Maybe DJ Douche is also Malcolm's son, I mean, it's been a long time since these writers got their incestuous vibe on. They gotta be missing it.

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Maybe DJ Douche is also Malcolm's son, I mean, it's been a long time since these writers got their incestuous vibe on. They gotta be missing it.

Dont see that if they plan on using the DJ to move their plot. Unless of course, he doesnt know his Malcolm's son. But they've been there done the sis kissing bro, sis swapping, unknown paternity. I think he will not be biologically related to Malcolm, but he could be part of the Malcolm's plans.

He has to be something, cuz why introduce him at all? And why bring Slade back? I just think the writers have a master plan for him Slade or Not. They cast a relatively known name if he has no real connection to the masterplot. Doubt they would put that much effort for a LI of Thea, since they barely ever write for her in recent scripts. Slade's son makes sense, as for the accent @ban10 that can be dropped, plus he might have a sad orphan story of foster homes/adoption like Isabel that made him lose his accent.

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Is Austin Butler a known name haha? 

 

Edit: Nevermind I checked and yeah since he had a lead role on another CW tv show there is probably more to him than just being a love interest for Thea, a character who gets like 4 minutes of screen time each episode. 

Edited by ban1o
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Speculating on 3.12 off the spoilers and episode descriptions:

"I don't want to be A woman you love." is said (Tatsu saying this to Maseo in present day is my second choice but...)   

Oliver returns at the end of the episode 

Felicity is Mad. As. Hell.

Also, a 3rd party, not Palmer, comes between Oliver and Felicity.

 

I think it's Thea that Oliver and Felicity fight over. If I were Felicity and I believed Oliver was dead, then I would consider it my responsibility to protect Thea. Especially since Oliver died trying to do just that.  Wouldn't the idea that Thea is still in the dark, in danger, and at the mercy of her lying, drug-murder inducing dad weigh on Felicity?

If Felicity does reveal to Thea even part of Oliver's secrets or that Oliver died (again) that will be a big issue for Oliver when he returns. Since 3.12 is described as Team Arrow arguing about whether or not they should work with Merlyn, it's possible that Felicity might take it upon herself to talk to Thea. She is dead set against Merlyn breathing, let alone working with him. Thea is very much at risk and keeping her in the dark at this point is dangerous. Felicity would know that. Also, Thea deserves to know the truth about things.

 

However, when Felicity explains her reasoning to Oliver, he will probably not like hearing that Felicity told Thea anything. Oliver is so protective of Thea and wants to keep her pure/kind. Felicity may have reached her limit on Oliver making decisions for everyone and controlling what everyone gets to know, including Thea. Throw in his opinion on Laurel's new activities. (I love Oliver but things need to be his way.)  Felicity will tell him "If that's how you treat the women you love, then I don't want to be a woman you love."   Felicity revealing to Thea things Oliver doesn't want Thea to know would be a big conflict. I can't see either of them giving in on it.   

 

Depending on how much Felicity does tell Thea, Thea could ignore her or not believe her. Thea ignored/disregarded Oliver on the subject of Merlyn too.

 

Roy will take over warning Thea about Merlyn in episode 13.  Felicity would back off now due to their fight and because Oliver is alive so Thea is his responsibility again.      

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Guggenheim said Thea and Felicity won't be sharing scenes for a while though. Like he was talking about them initially but then they were "pushed back." 

Edited by ban1o
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Speculating on 3.12 off the spoilers and episode descriptions:

"I don't want to be A woman you love." is said (Tatsu saying this to Maseo in present day is my second choice but...)

Oliver returns at the end of the episode

Felicity is Mad. As. Hell.

Also, a 3rd party, not Palmer, comes between Oliver and Felicity.

I think it's Thea that Oliver and Felicity fight over. If I were Felicity and I believed Oliver was dead, then I would consider it my responsibility to protect Thea. Especially since Oliver died trying to do just that. Wouldn't the idea that Thea is still in the dark, in danger, and at the mercy of her lying, drug-murder inducing dad weigh on Felicity?

If Felicity does reveal to Thea even part of Oliver's secrets or that Oliver died (again) that will be a big issue for Oliver when he returns. Since 3.12 is described as Team Arrow arguing about whether or not they should work with Merlyn, it's possible that Felicity might take it upon herself to talk to Thea. She is dead set against Merlyn breathing, let alone working with him. Thea is very much at risk and keeping her in the dark at this point is dangerous. Felicity would know that. Also, Thea deserves to know the truth about things.

However, when Felicity explains her reasoning to Oliver, he will probably not like hearing that Felicity told Thea anything. Oliver is so protective of Thea and wants to keep her pure/kind. Felicity may have reached her limit on Oliver making decisions for everyone and controlling what everyone gets to know, including Thea. Throw in his opinion on Laurel's new activities. (I love Oliver but things need to be his way.) Felicity will tell him "If that's how you treat the women you love, then I don't want to be a woman you love." Felicity revealing to Thea things Oliver doesn't want Thea to know would be a big conflict. I can't see either of them giving in on it.

Depending on how much Felicity does tell Thea, Thea could ignore her or not believe her. Thea ignored/disregarded Oliver on the subject of Merlyn too.

Roy will take over warning Thea about Merlyn in episode 13. Felicity would back off now due to their fight and because Oliver is alive so Thea is his responsibility again.

You have good points but MG has said Felicity/Thea scenes aren't happening Just yet. And he feels Oliciters will be furious with him. I think it's more likely She tells him she loves him and he says that he does too but he has to be Arrow to defeat Ra's or Malcolm possibly teaming up with one of them against the other. Felicity gets mad cause she can't stand to watch him team up with someone who killed him Edited by jay741982
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Speculating on 3.12 off the spoilers and episode descriptions:

"I don't want to be A woman you love." is said (Tatsu saying this to Maseo in present day is my second choice but...)   

Oliver returns at the end of the episode 

Felicity is Mad. As. Hell.

Also, a 3rd party, not Palmer, comes between Oliver and Felicity.

 

I think it's Thea that Oliver and Felicity fight over. If I were Felicity and I believed Oliver was dead, then I would consider it my responsibility to protect Thea. Especially since Oliver died trying to do just that.  Wouldn't the idea that Thea is still in the dark, in danger, and at the mercy of her lying, drug-murder inducing dad weigh on Felicity?

If Felicity does reveal to Thea even part of Oliver's secrets or that Oliver died (again) that will be a big issue for Oliver when he returns. Since 3.12 is described as Team Arrow arguing about whether or not they should work with Merlyn, it's possible that Felicity might take it upon herself to talk to Thea. She is dead set against Merlyn breathing, let alone working with him. Thea is very much at risk and keeping her in the dark at this point is dangerous. Felicity would know that. Also, Thea deserves to know the truth about things.

 

However, when Felicity explains her reasoning to Oliver, he will probably not like hearing that Felicity told Thea anything. Oliver is so protective of Thea and wants to keep her pure/kind. Felicity may have reached her limit on Oliver making decisions for everyone and controlling what everyone gets to know, including Thea. Throw in his opinion on Laurel's new activities. (I love Oliver but things need to be his way.)  Felicity will tell him "If that's how you treat the women you love, then I don't want to be a woman you love."   Felicity revealing to Thea things Oliver doesn't want Thea to know would be a big conflict. I can't see either of them giving in on it.   

 

Depending on how much Felicity does tell Thea, Thea could ignore her or not believe her. Thea ignored/disregarded Oliver on the subject of Merlyn too.

 

Roy will take over warning Thea about Merlyn in episode 13.  Felicity would back off now due to their fight and because Oliver is alive so Thea is his responsibility again.      

Thea may come between them, but not at this point since MG said the scenes were being pushed. But if Thea is still linked w/ MM then it might cause some friction. But I don't see it being the major tipping point.

 

I also find it OOC for Felicity to reveal secrets. She's really only done it twice. 1. When she gave Moira the opportunity to reveal it first, & Moira said Hell NO. 2. When she asked Barry to say Oliver's life. Both times the secret would compromise her relationship w/ Oliver and run the risk of losing him. His secret identity and when he tells Thea is not her secret to tell. She tends to not meddle in other people's choices/decisions. If Oliver wants to tell Thea, I think she'll let that be on his terms. I see where his choice on how to handle Thea may impede their relationship - but that likely has more to do with Merlyn. I think she knows how much Oliver loves his sister, and I think she'll respect their relationship. It's not her secret to tell and I don't see how it could realistically work. I mean does Thea really even know who Felicity is? If anyone is gonna say anything it would have been Roy. Or you could make a case for Laurel.

Edited by kismet
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On reddit someone who went to the con said they got to talk to Stephen Amell and he revealed some small spoilers about future episode. he seemed pretty legitimate and even had picture of himself with SA and CL at the con and an autographed Arrow poster. 

 

This is what he said Stephen Amell told him. 

 

He confirmed that the lazarus pit was going to be in the show and used. Also that in a future episode in the near future it would get it's own back story created for the show. He also said that episode 15 would blow your mind! I think that is going to be the episode with the lazarus pit, just my guess though.

 

Edited by ban1o
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My mind is forever asking what Thea thinks of felicity, who sometimes hangs out and drinks with Roy (in the brave and the bold), and she knows Roy works with the arrow. I hate they make me fanwank this. I really like the theory of letting Thea know he's not dead (bc maybe Oliver does tnot even want to BE Oliver anymore, or can't be, and only wants to be the arrow). I do think that line is somehow going to be spurned from Oliver's misplaced instincts to protect the people he care about.

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On reddit someone who went to the con said they got to talk to Stephen Amell and he revealed some small spoilers about future episode. he seemed pretty legitimate and even had picture of himself with SA and CL at the con and an autographed Arrow poster.

This is what he said Stephen Amell told him.

ZOMBIE!TOMMY

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Hmm. Either 312 with the Malcolm flashbacks, or 315 being named Nanda Parbat, would fit with the Lazarus Pit backstory.

But it's funny [sad] the Lazarus pit gets an origin story faster than human beings on this show.

ZOMBIE!TOMMY

OH MY GOD. "Wait, what?" IT FITS. Edited by dancingnancy
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ZOMBIE!TOMMY

lol. I must admit I did think of it initially. 

 

SA did say that the audience reaction to 3x15 will be "wait...what?" 

Edited by ban1o
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Hmm. Either 312 with the Malcolm flashbacks, or 315 being named Nanda Parbat, would fit with the Lazarus Pit backstory.

But it's funny [sad] the Lazarus pit gets an origin story faster than human beings on this show.

OH MY GOD. "Wait, what?" IT FITS.

 

Another thought: any chance Laurel bites it doing something stupid, they Lazarus Pit her and she gets her Canary Cry?

Edited by apinknightmare
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Hmm. Either 312 with the Malcolm flashbacks, or 315 being named Nanda Parbat, would fit with the Lazarus Pit backstory.

But it's funny [sad] the Lazarus pit gets an origin story faster than human beings on this show.

 

Yeah I was thinking one of the two for the lazarus pit backstory. and haha so true about the backstory. 

Edited by ban1o
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I'll just admit it now, I was so bummed that it wasnt Tommy that saved Oliver. I mean Maseo makes the most sense... but how I wish Tommy would come back. Only problem is unless they change the properties of the pit, I dont want a crazy Tommy back...

 

The pit will most likely be for Ras &/or MM

Edited by kismet
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Does Malcolm know Oliver put Slade on the island? Because if he doesn't I could see him going there as a place to hide and being surprised to find Deathstroke. Then in trying to kill Slade, as I imagine ninja-Thea might do, he escapes.

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Someone on tumblr said they saw the Asia promo for the next episode and that Chase is talking to Maseo about Merlyn. So I guess Chase is in the LOA.

 

In person? That must be why Maseo says what he says about Oliver needing to be worried about what was going on in his city in his absence. Did Maseo go to SC to do some recon? Maybe he lets the team know Oliver's alive?

Edited by apinknightmare
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I really don't like the sound of bringing the lazarus pits into the show. When they alluded to Ra's al Ghul's age being more than he looked, we could all guess that the LP's exist but do we really need them? I just think it's opening up a whole lot of stuff the show doesn't really need. I mean, everyone will be calling for all their favorites to be bought back from the dead. Plus we all know they'll only use it on the men. Women stay dead on this show. 

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