Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

I thought this was it -- but instead of an alliance, it was Malcolm manipulating Oliver into defeating Ra's to protect Thea. They were on the same side of the issue, except Malcolm was calling the shots, and not, you know, Oliver and him joining forces on equal ground.

 

I guess maybe that could be it, but what's going to happen when Ra's still isn't dead and there's still evidence floating around that Thea killed Sara? 

[looptab]

I don't see that theory being possible because..been there, done that? I mean, as dancingnancy said, they could go there, but why? Isn't the fact that he is struggling to keep a grip on his humanity the premise of the whole show? What would be the point of going back to the start? Unless what Guggenheim said about "one step forward, two steps back" was actually in regard to Oliver?...-it could be. It kinda is already. But..c'mon. Enough already!

[tv echo]

I agree that the" three heroes" mentioned by DR mean costumed superheroes, unfortunately, because otherwise there will have been no change from before - Team Arrow has been fighting to save the city since season 1. 

 

But I thought MG had said that just putting on a costume doesn't automatically make you a superhero?  So after six months of boxing lessons in her spare time (assuming she's still working full-time in the DA's office), Laurel goes from inept fighter to BC-level superhero?  On the other hand, I hope the EPs don't try to speed up Laurel's transition to BC through some cheat device - like mirakuru or the Lazarus Pit.  Roy shouldn't be that good either, but at least he's been training longer and training with weapons and learning offensive techniques from Oliver.  If the third superhero is Ray Palmer as the ATOM, then his skills would have to come from tech (like Iron Man) unless he has secret fighting skills that we haven't seen yet.  If the third superhero is Ted Grant as Wildcat, then he's still just an expert boxer and should be no more capable in the field than Diggle, a military veteran.  Thea?  I'm not sure about her being the third superhero.  Oliver would be spending all his time in the field trying to protect her, and from her awkward fight scene with the Arrow in the last episode, she's not quite up to par yet anyway.  

 

Someone here once suggested that they should shorten Arrow's season to 13 episodes and spin off Black Canary and the Atom into their own shows, each 13-episodes long.  I agree.  Poor SA would get a break and could take on other acting projects during his hiatus.  Then I could watch 13 episodes of Arrow that focused on Oliver and Team Arrow, and then change the channel when the other two shows were on.

[SonofaBiscuit]

If Oliver has other superheroes helping him, that could give him some time off, but would Felicity really get a break?  She provides all sorts of technical support for the team, so she's pretty crucial to their missions.  I mean, with Laurel asking Felicity to "Google his phone" and Roy checking facebook on Felicity's computers (OK, that didn't happen), those two are doomed on their own.  They need Felicity.  Ray would have all of that covered though, as he's a genius.  But basically, I'm just thinking what's the point of Oliver having time off if he can't spend it with Felicity :)   

[statsgirl]

Not sure I trust this version of Ted Grant to be an effective vigilante. He's no comic book Wildcat.  Basically, the only ones who could give Oliver a break are Diggle, Lyla and Sara.  Everyone else is either still learning (Roy) or not there yet (Laurel, Ray, Thea) and none of them could believably come up to speed by the summer break.

 

And then there's that line from the EPs that some characters become their comic book counterparts and other don't.

 

I was listening to David Ramsey tell the audience how important they are because the EPs listen to their social media but it's hard to believe at this point.

Will the EPs have time to course correct if the Buckle Canary/No we mean Roy/look at all our superheroes arc tanks? I don't truly believe it will tank, but if the audience doesn't react favorably, what episodes will they be writing when 10 - 13 airs?

They're shooting 3x14 now and that should be wrapped up by Christmas.  At a guess, they'll be shooting 3x16 and 3x17 when 3x10 - 13 airs and the finale episodes will have been plotted out but they could change the scripts if they need to.  More likely, Oliver can leave the show in the combined hands of Roy, Laurel and Ray. The three together should be enough to let him have some Oliver Queen time, and then the EPs can work out over the summer who stays and who moves on, either to another show or another city.

[Morrigan2575]

They should come back mid-January (my guess is 1/12) to start filming 3.15 which is being written now (if we go by last season).  If that's the case they should start filming 316 when 3.10 premieres.

 

Quarks would know better about timing but I would guess by the time 310-312 air the only things left would be the final 3 episodes?  Maybe?

Edited December 15, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[ban1o]

Do we even know for sure if they plan to have Oliver hang up the hood at the end of the season? This is all speculation, right? 

[apinknightmare]

Do we even know for sure if they plan to have Oliver hang up the hood at the end of the season? This is all speculation, right? 

 

No, not sure why anyone thinks that. SA said, "The fact that there are so many superheroes populating Starling City and Central City is going to be an important theme." He added that all of these people will also play into Oliver's journey to the end of the season.

 

I took that to mean that more heroes would allow Oliver to have a private life and not be so consumed by his mission, not that he'd hang it all up.

[Sunshine]

Oliver hanging up the hood is pure speculation.

 

My speculation on Sin's pivotal role in Sara's murder in 3.12...

 

Sin reacts badly to seeing the Canary who isn't Sara. I don't know exactly what that means but I wonder if it to leads to Quentin FINALLY finding out  about her death! This could lead to 3.13 Canaries which could be a comparison of the two sisters.  Seems like the only 3 who might be able to do the comparison of the two would be Quentin, Oliver, or Sin.  I hope Oliver's first day back on the job isn't about keeping Insta!Canary in check. 

 

At this point the only pivotal role I can see is informing Thea or Quentin.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Sunshine

[ban1o]

No, not sure why anyone thinks that. SA said, "The fact that there are so many superheroes populating Starling City and Central City is going to be an important theme." He added that all of these people will also play into Oliver's journey to the end of the season.

 

I took that to mean that more heroes would allow Oliver to have a private life and not be so consumed by his mission, not that he'd hang it all up.

Yeah i don't get all the "Oliver hanging up the hood" speculation from that quote. The whole theme of the season is Oliver finding balance not him choosing one life over the other. 

 

 

My speculation on Sin's pivotal role in Sara's murder in 3.12...

 

Sin reacts badly to seeing the Canary who isn't Sara. I don't know exactly what that means but I wonder if it to leads to Quentin FINALLY finding out  about her death! This could lead to 3.13 Canaries which could be a comparison of the two sisters.  Seems like the only 3 who might be able to do the comparison of the two would be Quentin, Oliver, or Sin.  I hope Oliver's first day back on the job isn't about keeping Insta!Canary in check. 

 

At this point the only pivotal role I can see is informing Thea or Quentin.

Yeah I definitely agree. I think the pivotal role she plays will be informing Thea about what she did. Maybe Quentin about Sara's death but Sin was closer to Thea. 

Edited December 15, 2014 by ban1o

[Sunshine]

Yeah i don't get all the "Oliver hanging up the hood" speculation from that quote. The whole theme of the season is Oliver finding balance not him choosing one life over the other. 

 

Yeah I definitely agree. I think the pivotal role she plays will be informing Thea about what she did. Maybe Quentin about Sara's death but Sin was closer to Thea. 

Thea seems logical but all Sin could do is tell her she's dead.  Thea knows that already which is why I wonder if somehow it doesn't lead to Quentin finding out.  I guess I just really want someone to tell Quentin already!  I wonder when/how Thea finds out she is the killer?  I am sure it will be in the worst possible way.

[dtissagirl]

They should come back mid-January (my guess is 1/12) to start filming 3.15 which is being written now (if we go by last season).  If that's the case they should start filming 316 when 3.10 premieres.

 

Oh, I read about this on Twitter. One of the Vancouver paps posted Arrow's filming hiatus is December 20 - January 5, so yeah, they'll be midway through filming 316 when 310 airs.

 

ETA: link to the pap site: http://yvrshoots.com/2014/12/holiday-hiatus-arrow-bates-motel-the-flash-motive-once-upon-a-time-supernatural.html#.VI844nsYF2A

Edited December 15, 2014 by dancingnancy

[statsgirl]

The end of season episodes normally get plotted out in December or January for TV shows so they will be in the hands of the assigned writers by the time the BC arc airs. It takes a couple of months to write an episode and then one or two weeks after the white draft is done for the director to do his stuff before they start shooting (SA's explanation for why he won't be directing an Arrow episode). Is the end of April when they stop shooting?

 

If there are any changes as a result of 310 -  312 ratings, it's going to take some pretty skilled tap dancing by the EPs unless Berlanti already has a Plan B. Most likely the season will end with Aresenal, BC and the Atom helping Oliver fight the Big Bad and changes come later.

Edited December 15, 2014 by statsgirl

[DrSpaceman10]

According to the new spoilers about Thea filming a flashback scene and Tommy coming back, I think 3x14 will be a mostly flashback episode (like 1x14 and 2x15). Maybe Waller gives Oliver a mission or something in Starling City and he sees his family/friends? This probably also means that there won't be much Diggle/Felicity in this episode.

[apinknightmare]

According to the new spoilers about Thea filming a flashback scene and Tommy coming back, I think 3x14 will be a mostly flashback episode (like 1x14 and 2x15). Maybe Waller gives Oliver a mission or something in Starling City and he sees his family/friends? This probably also means that there won't be much Diggle/Felicity in this episode.

 

Yeah, I was wondering if Oliver was in Starling in a flashback considering the awful hair (thankfully he had a shower?) and the SC Rockets hat.

[ban1o]

LOL I seriously sideeye the fact that Oliver has seen his family and friends so many times. I wonder if Moira will be back? How old would Thea have been at the time ,15?

[Morrigan2575]

Isn't 314 the episode with Slade?

[Velocity23]

Were we ever told exactly when Slade came to Starling?

[apinknightmare]

Isn't 314 the episode with Slade?

Yep.

[statsgirl]

I don't think he was in Starling City before he showed up last season. but this is when he comes back to the show although "The Return" doesn't refer to him. So maybe it is about Oliver returning to Starling City and not having time to go to a barber.

 

If there is little Diggle and Felicity in 3x14 because of all the flashbacks, I will be disappointed as we've just come off of the Canary/Arsenal quartet.  Does that mean I don't get the show back till 3x15?  It feels like 2B all over again.

Edited December 16, 2014 by statsgirl

[DrSpaceman10]

If there is little Diggle and Felicity in 3x14 because of all the flashbacks, I will be disappointed as we've just come off of the Canary/Arsenal quartet.  Does that mean I don't get the show back till 3x15?  It feels like 2B all over again.

 

All I want are meaningful Oliver/Diggle/Felicity scenes, which we most likely won't be getting from 3x10-3x14. I thought we'd be getting back to semi-normal (ie: Oliver/Diggle/Felicity in the foundry) in 3x14, but it looks like it'll be at least 3x15 at this point.

[ban1o]

All I want are meaningful Oliver/Diggle/Felicity scenes, which we most likely won't be getting from 3x10-3x14. I thought we'd be getting back to semi-normal (ie: Oliver/Diggle/Felicity in the foundry) in 3x14, but it looks like it'll be at least 3x15 at this point.

 

Considering Oliver is back in 3x12 most likely than we will probably get a lot of that in 3x13.  

 

and lol since when is it the Canary/Arsenal quartet? they said it would be Team Arrow heavy (minus oliver I guess so Team Arrow-less heavy)

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[Velocity23]

No Oliver no Team Arrow.

[DrSpaceman10]

Considering Oliver is back in 3x12 most likely than we will probably get a lot of that in 3x13.  

 

I'm still not sure if Oliver is back in 3x12, because David Ramsey said something about Oliver being gone for four or five episodes, right? What if the paparazzi photos of Oliver/Arrow from 3x13 are actually hallucinations?

 

3x13 is called Canaries which means its main focus won't be on Team Arrow. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by drspaceman10

[ban1o]

No Oliver no Team Arrow.

but still Diggle + Felicity

I'm still not sure if Oliver is back in 3x12, because David Ramsey said something about Oliver being gone for four or five episodes, right? What if the paparazzi photos of SA from 3x13 are actually hallucinations?

 

3x13 is called Canaries which means its main focus won't be on Team Arrow. 

I don't think they're hallucinations. Roy was with him and apparently there was an unnamed actor playing the villain on a rooftop scene. Is also saw a video filmed by someone and they were like chasing after each other and stuff.  David Ramsey said at fan fest he was back  already and they were shooting episode 14. He could have just made a mistake by saying 4 or 5. I think he'll be back at the end of 3x12.

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[Velocity23]

yeah and Laurel yippeee.

[DrSpaceman10]

but still Diggle + Felicity

 

I love Diggle/Felicity scenes, but Oliver/Diggle and Oliver/Felicity are 2/3 of the reason I watch.

 

I had accepted that Oliver would be gone and we wouldn't be getting any Team Arrow scenes for four episodes, but now that it looks like it's at least five episodes with no significant Team Arrow, my patience is wearing thin.

[apinknightmare]

I love Diggle/Felicity scenes, but Oliver/Diggle and Oliver/Felicity are 2/3 of the reason I watch.

 

I had accepted that Oliver would be gone and we wouldn't be getting any Team Arrow scenes for four episodes, but now that it looks like it's at least five episodes with no significant Team Arrow, my patience is wearing thin.

 

There will be significant Team Arrow in 3x13, most likely, even if the episode is called Canaries. No way does he come back from the dead and not have significant moments with Diggle and Felicity (and probably Roy). 

[BkWurm1]

No, not sure why anyone thinks that. SA said, "The fact that there are so many superheroes populating Starling City and Central City is going to be an important theme." He added that all of these people will also play into Oliver's journey to the end of the season.

 

He ended it with "And I've said too much."  

 

That was what made me conclude that having these full on and capable heroes would be what makes Oliver over correct his journey about identity and go from all Arrow back to all Oliver Queen.  It's actually kind of brilliant if you overlook the part where we go into the season with no Arrow, but they are already pushing that idea with the upcoming 3-4 episodes.  If they tank with the audience, they could still do the dramatic Oliver hangs up his quiver at the end of the season but make something happen in the first episode that requires him to pick it back up but I think more likely, we will get Oliver going after his company, attempting to be a good CEO, setting up some kind of charity, trying to steer Thea away from the crime fighting life, being whatever he thinks translates as a good normal boyfriend (hijinks may insue) probably also trying to convince Felicity to hang up her hacking (yeah, as if).  There could be some great stories to mine and they'd have the added benefit of being SOOOOO much lighter than this season, still infused with Arrow grit (if Felicity is going to the Lair, Oliver is going to follow and get involved somehow in the drama) 

 

Yeah, I think I could really enjoy seeing that. 

 

The thing about finding balance, I think right now Oliver feels he needs to be Arrow, that he can only be good or worthy as Arrow and yet at the same time he loses so much as just Arrow.  So if he thinks he is allowed to be worthy and good as Oliver, he might take that chance only to discover that he actually LIKES being the Arrow and that would lead to learning to bring balance to his life. 

 

Is there really enough time for Oliver to find real balance with the episodes that we have left?  It seems he really only has time for an epiphany, not enough time to form new habits. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by BkWurm1

[apinknightmare]

He ended it with "And I've said too much."  

 

That was what made me conclude that having these full on and capable heroes would be what makes Oliver over correct his journey about identity and go from all Arrow back to all Oliver Queen.  It's actually kind of brilliant if you overlook the part where we go into the season with no Arrow, but they are already pushing that idea with the upcoming 3-4 episodes.  If they tank with the audience, they could still do the dramatic Oliver hangs up his quiver at the end of the season but make something happen in the first episode that requires him to pick it back up but I think more likely, we will get Oliver going after his company, attempting to be a good CEO, setting up some kind of charity, trying to steer Thea away from the crime fighting life, being whatever he thinks translates as a good normal boyfriend (hijinks may insue) probably also trying to convince Felicity to hang up her hacking (yeah, as if).  There could be some great stories to mine and they'd have the added benefit of being SOOOOO much lighter than this season, still infused with Arrow grit (if Felicity is going to the Lair, Oliver is going to follow and get involved somehow in the drama) 

 

Yeah, I think I could really enjoy seeing that. 

 

I think that would be really interesting too, although I think he said that he said too much because a) he hinted at there being more heroes, and b) because he's basically giving away the answer to Oliver's Arrow vs. Queen dilemma (although we already know the answer is that he can be both). I think it would be fun to watch him have a normal life, but I'm just not sure if the show will take him from deciding he can only be Arrow to kind of half-assedly being both, to being only Oliver Queen. But I guess we'll see - they still have 14 episodes to go...

[ban1o]

There will be significant Team Arrow in 3x13, most likely, even if the episode is called Canaries. No way does he come back from the dead and not have significant moments with Diggle and Felicity (and probably Roy). 

This. I'm like 90% sure that he 'll back in episode 13 (end of episode 12 most likely) and obviously he'll have scenes with team arrow if he is back.

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[statsgirl]

Maybe the 2 3/4 episodes felt like 4 or 5 to David Ramsey.  I suspect it will to me.

 

It's hard to verbalize what exactly it is that makes me want to watch this show.  I like all of Oliver, Diggle and Felicity independently, but it's when they all get together on a mission that the show lights up for me.  And while I enjoy some of them in other relationships (Diggle/Lyla, Oliver/Thea), I need enough time spent on O/D/F as a group to really like an episode.  Felicity/Barry only worked for me in terms of what it did for Oliver's story, although I really like Felicity on the Flash, and the Ray/Felicity scenes this year are like sandpaper.  I thought Suicide Squad was good but not great because there was only one scene with Felicity and I was so fed up with Oliver whining about Slade. It wasn't till 2x20 that the show got back to what I watch for.

 

In 3x10, we'll see Felicity and Diggle react to Oliver being gone but 11 and 12 are big episodes for Arsenal and the new Black Canary.  Oliver may be back in 3x13 and there will be a hug with Diggle and a handshake with Roy (just to mix things up) and maybe a Felicity reaction to being abandoned but an episode called "Canaries" is not going to be Team Oliver heavy, and no way will there be enough time to deal with what Felicity might be feeling.  By this time, I won't want some scenes, I'll want a substantial storyline for O/D/F because it will have been so long..My guess is that Oliver will object to Laurel fighting, we'll get lots of parallels with Sara, Laurel will prove her worth in the field and then Oliver will finally accept her fighting with them.  (I'm bored already.)  And then he still has to find out what Ray's been up to.

 

3x14, like 1x14 and 2x15, seems to be heavy on the flashbacks.  The Odyssey worked for me because in contrast to Oliver on the island, the present day was a bottle episode with lots of Diggle and Felicity.  I didn't make it through watching The Promise because it was Oliver/Slade/Sara past and present.  We'll see what 3x14 turns out to be but with Tommy and Thea in the past and Slade showing up in the present plus a very crowded Arrowcave, how much time is there going to be for Diggle and Felicity to have meaningful interactions with Oliver?  "Watch your back, Oliver" or "I pinged his phone; he's at Main and Fifth" doesn't do it for me.  I want Oliver and Diggle to sit down and have a meaningful conversation; I want some fall-out with Felicity from Oliver leaving before 3x22.

 

So it looks like 3x15 is the earliest I'll get back the Team Arrow I watch the show for and by then it will be almost March, a long 2 1/2 months since The Climb.  That's why it's starting to feel like 2B, because the thing I watch for, Original Team Arrow, will practically be homeopathic by then.  (See, there are Diggle and Felicity in the Arrow cave standing by the mannequin where Oliver's suit stands.  There must be a few molecules of it left there while he's out with Roy and Laurel, it's a Team Arrow moment..)

Edited December 16, 2014 by statsgirl

[SonofaBiscuit]

If there is little Diggle and Felicity in 3x14 because of all the flashbacks, I will be disappointed as we've just come off of the Canary/Arsenal quartet.  Does that mean I don't get the show back till 3x15?  It feels like 2B all over again.

 

Ugh, I totally forgot about our yearly flashback episode.  I'm screaming obscenities in my head right now.  Is this my reward for tolerating four Laurel/Roy episodes in a row?  Why do you hate me Guggenheim?

[apinknightmare]

I didn't mind The Odyssey so much, but I hated The Promise, apart from Oliver getting slammed against the side of the Amazo and then thrown back on the deck, which to this day is my favorite stunt on the show. Still makes me laugh.

 

Not really looking forward to another flashback ep, but if it's in Starling City, that might be compelling. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

As annoying as guggenheim can be at least we haven't been Goffman'd like Sleepy Hollow has been.(no I'm not bitter....)

I do think MG still likes Oliver but I wonder if the arrow PTB are under a ton of network and DC pressure to expand the universe so the are using Arrow to do it. I can tolerate itm this one time but this better be a one time thing.

[BkWurm1]

I think he said that he said too much because a) he hinted at there being more heroes,

 

We already knew about Flash and Roy was suiting up and Ray Palmer had his destiny spelled out to anyone willing to read a wiki page.  At the time I never considered Laurel being part of the mix even if they had killed Sara for her so when he was talking about there being a number of heroes around, that part seemed to me the non spoilery part, but that their existence and how it related to his journey, that seemed to me the part where he said too much.  

Edited December 16, 2014 by BkWurm1

[ban1o]

I honestly think they are doing the killing/disappearance of Oliver thing for story telling purposes. It happens in comics ALL THE TIME. It happened on Smallville too. It's a common storytelling trope.  I don't think they have anything against Stephen Amell or Oliver or they were forced to do it.  

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

We already knew about Flash and Roy was suiting up and Ray Palmer had his destiny spelled out to anyone willing to read a wiki page.  At the time I never considered Laurel being part of the mix even if they had killed Sara for her so when he was talking about their being a number of heroes around, that part seemed to me the non spoilery part, but that their existence and how it related to his journey, that seemed to me the part where he said too much.  

 

Well, yeah, but I don't think that necessarily hints at Oliver hanging it up at the end of the season. I mean, he could, but I think that just means that he doesn't have to be the Arrow full time.

[Velocity23]

And we get Laurel & Tommy FB scenes lol.

[ban1o]

So that confirms no Zombie Tommy lol. So the only thing to wonder is if these are flashbacks of season 1 or during Oliver's time on the island. (probably during his time on the island) And I really, really hope Moira (and maybe Walter) show up.

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

So that confirms no Zombie Tommy lol.

 

Unless he's Zombie-ing it up in the present!

 

Although I guess I'm resigning myself to the fact that "The Return" = Past Oliver to Starling, boooooooo

Edited December 16, 2014 by apinknightmare

[ban1o]

Unless he's Zombie-ing it up in the present!

LOL maybe :P

 

 

 

 

Although I guess I'm resigning myself to the fact that "The Return" = Past Oliver to Starling, boooooooo

haha yeah probably I find that kinda dumb and sorta retconish but  I'll wait and see how it pans out. I wonder if Oliver finds out about Laurel and Tommy hooking up lol.

[Morrigan2575]

Unless he's Zombie-ing it up in the present!

Although I guess I'm resigning myself to the fact that "The Return" = Past Oliver to Starling, boooooooo

Didn't MG say it didn't refer to Oliver or Slade? Would he really he really play semantics like that?

[quarks]

Pure guess on my part, but I would imagine that a Roy focus is going to continue until April given that he's in an upcoming New Line picture scheduled for release then, and New Line and the WB are under the same parent company.  Not to be cynical about Hollywood or anything like that.

 

On a related note, yes, the producers are under a lot of pressure to promote DC properties through Arrow. And often it works: look what happened last year. The producers ran around telling everyone and everybody that WOW, SUICIDE SQUAD IS AWESOME and it so should be a spinoff and there's all this fan interest and wow Suicide Squad, and then this year, we get press releases about an upcoming Suicide Squad movie the same week that "The Brave and The Bold" just happens to mention the Suicide Squad and showcase how it can work with superpowered/non superpowered characters.  I mean, sure, this could be a coincidence, or this could be Hollywood.

 

Regarding course corrections: yes, absolutely, the show can make course corrections as late as March/April and even May. They made a final change to "Unthinkable" well after the episode was shot. When Barry Allen turned out to be more popular than expected, they scratched their original plans for season 2, episode 19/20, and worked around that - with five more episodes still to go.  So if there's a negative response to any aspect of the upcoming January/February episodes, they can correct for this before filming in March/early April for May episodes.  There are some production issues - Arrow usually has to block/plan location shots well before filming - but the show can also work around that if needed.  And they can also always leave the fates of certain characters up in the air - for example, Quentin's heart attack from last year.

 

The question is not can they, but will they. And that's a trickier question.  For the past two seasons, Arrow has generally regrouped right around episodes 8 and 9 and made some major decisions about the rest of the season (while writing episodes 13/14) and then again around episodes 14/15 (while filming the finale.)  In the first season, the show course corrected by having Felicity enter the Arrow Cave before Laurel. In the second season, from episode 13 on, the writers, by their own admission, were doing setups for the finale: thus that extended art history scene in episode 15 which turned out to be just a setup for episode 23.  Episode 15 was scripted in November/December - just after the show had feedback on episodes 6/7, major Oliver/Felicity episodes.

 

If the writers are planning on pulling a similar trick, and "Unthinkable" was successful enough that they might, then they may not make any major course corrections post episode 14, just because by then, they will already be doing the setup for the finale.

[ban1o]

wow you know a lot of stuff quarks :P Do you work for tv or something ?

Are they really "promoting" new DC properties though? I mean like Roy has been on the show since season 1 and he's already Arsenal and yeah LaurelCanary is coming but she was always going to be coming anyway. (and Sara basically already played BC last season, which was probably more  pressure from the studio to rush Black Canary) The only heroes they might try to "promote" is the ATOM but according to David Ramsey they haven't even done anything with him yet and they are already shooting episode 14/

Edited December 16, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

Didn't MG say it didn't refer to Oliver or Slade? Would he really he really play semantics like that?

 

True, he did say it didn't refer to Oliver. As for whether he'd play semantics like that, I don't know. 

Edited December 16, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

True, he did say it didn't refer to Oliver. As for weather he'd play semantics like that, I don't know.

me neither, just wondering

[BkWurm1]

Well, yeah, but I don't think that necessarily hints at Oliver hanging it up at the end of the season. I mean, he could, but I think that just means that he doesn't have to be the Arrow full time.

Well that 's a reasonable reaction but do we think Oliver or the show runners/writers are playing reasonable?

[Carrie Ann]

While I don't doubt that 314 could be a flashback-focused episode in the vein of The Odyssey and The Promise (maybe the title follows that pattern intentionally?), is it possible that they scheduled the filming of the flashback scenes together?

 

As far as how Oliver's actual return to the present tense will go...I'm starting to wonder whether the audience will see him at the very end of 312 but no one on the show will (aside from anyone taking care of him, if applicable), and then he will appear in Starling toward the end of 313 (I know he's in the suit for that episode, but he could sort of show up in the middle of the action and shock everyone), and then 314 will cover his previous "return" to Starling, and then yeah, we get the bulk of the team fallout in 315 and beyond. Ugh, if so.

[statsgirl]

I understand that they may want to try out  Arsenal and Black Canary in January when it's not sweeps time, and I can understand putting in a flashback episode.  But I think that they would have done better to either make 3x13 a heavy O/D/F Team Arrow episode rather than one about Canaries, or make the flashback episode 3x15 and have  3x14 the O/D/F Team Arrow,.  A lot of people watch for the original Team Arrow, to take that off the show from 3x09 to 3x15 and replace it with Laurel, Roy and flashbacks, including during February sweeps, doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

I do think MG still likes Oliver but I wonder if the arrow PTB are under a ton of network and DC pressure to expand the universe so the are using Arrow to do it. I can tolerate it this one time but this better be a one time thing.

If they were under pressure to expand the Arrow universe, killing Sara was the worst thing they could have done.  Sara, Helena, Nyssa and /or Sin could have made a Birds of Prey show, I don't think Laurel will even be able to make up for Diggle if a Suicide Squad spin-off should lure him away.

 

 

The question is not can they, but will they. And that's a trickier question.  For the past two seasons, Arrow has generally regrouped right around episodes 8 and 9 and made some major decisions about the rest of the season (while writing episodes 13/14) and then again around episodes 14/15 (while filming the finale.)  In the first season, the show course corrected by having Felicity enter the Arrow Cave before Laurel. In the second season, from episode 13 on, the writers, by their own admission, were doing setups for the finale: thus that extended art history scene in episode 15 which turned out to be just a setup for episode 23.  Episode 15 was scripted in November/December - just after the show had feedback on episodes 6/7, major Oliver/Felicity episodes.

 

If the writers are planning on pulling a similar trick, and "Unthinkable" was successful enough that they might, then they may not make any major course corrections post episode 14, just because by then, they will already be doing the setup for the finale.

But wasn't the art history lesson a relatively minor change in terms of the overall episode?  It still remained Oliver/Slade/Sara heavy in both past and present, Diggle and Roy had little to do and Felicity was reduced to two lines, one of them excruciating (Please save Oliver).  I don't know what the original plan was but it seems like there was little change to it other than the tour of Queen Manor.

 

It's possible to make some minor changes to the overall season given feedback to 10 - 13 although not a lot since they will be already writing the finale, which is what I've been saying.  I have no doubt Roy will remain Arsenal and it will probably be too late to change the course of Laurel (even if her Black Canary is a fail she's still going to be in the finale saving the city because they'll need her) but it's possible to tinker with Ray, especially as DR said that they don't really know yet what they're going to do with him.  I think Brandon Routh's career plans will play into it more than viewer feedback, so as far as I can see, any changes they make to final episodes based on the Arsenal/Canary quartet will be minor. What you see is what you'll continue to get.

Edited December 16, 2014 by statsgirl