Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

I feel like all of the suspects fall into two categories: too easy or make no sense. 

 

In the end, I hope Sara was the intended target. That the killer took her out because she herself was a threat to whatever they are planing. I like that idea better then, they killed Sara to send a message to someone or just to set off a series of events. 

 

I agree.

 

And since the person who killed her said "Hello, Sara" I'm guessing she was the intended target.

Edited October 27, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Orion]

Sooo they gave Felicity's lines to Roy for this episode. 

 

Nyssa is wonderful I hope she doesn't disappear a la Walter with her partner being gone.

[apinknightmare]

From the speculation thread regarding Walter:

 

 

That's why I'm bitter about the fact that Arrow just threw his character in the dumpster. They just forgot about him and his importance. He has a wealth of resources, and he has a wonderful and almost paternal relationship with Thea... I would've liked to see the show use him more. Just because Moira is dead doesn't mean Walter and his connections to the characters/QC should be dead as well.

 

Didn't a spoiler come out last week that he was in an upcoming episode, or did I make that up?

[ban1o]

Sooo they gave Felicity's lines to Roy for this episode. 

 

Nyssa is wonderful I hope she doesn't disappear a la Walter with her partner being gone.

haha I can kinda see that.. A lot the things he said  I can imagine her saying. 

 

Didn't a spoiler come out last week that he was in an upcoming episode, or did I make that up?

Colin Salmon said that he is returning for a brief appearance, so you're right. :P 

Edited October 27, 2014 by ban1o

[wonderwall]

Is it just me, or does Roy not have a personality? So we basically just accept whatever he says on screen and not deem it OOC or in character? I too thought what he said was Felicity-like... I think Roy needs his own personality, his own nuances in order to be a solid character. Unfortunately I don't think this will happen

[Velocity23]

I think i might be the only one, but i dont want Talia on Arrow. I just want kick-ass Nyssa.

[ban1o]

Is it just me, or does Roy not have a personality? So we basically just accept whatever he says on screen and not deem it OOC or in character? I too thought what he said was Felicity-like... I think Roy needs his own personality, his own nuances in order to be a solid character. Unfortunately I don't think this will happen

They  definitely have to develop his character more. But I don't think anything he said was  OOC really. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by ban1o

[Chaser]

I'm perfectly happy with Nyssa. I associate Talia so much with Batman that I would just be waiting for her to call the Arrow "Beloved." 

 

Felicity to me is very quippy but I see Roy as more snarky. I want to see Roy snark more.

Edited October 27, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[wonderwall]

They  definitely have to develop his character more. But I don't think anything he said was  OOC really. 

No I know, I was just saying that if he were to say something ooc, I wouldn't really be able to tell because he has no personality :p I mean, last year I couldn't really tell because of the whole Mirakuru thing so I'll give them a pass. Hopefully they define his character a bit more this year. And I hope it's different from Felicity's personality or even Digg's and Oliver's. 

[ban1o]

No I know, I was just saying that if he were to say something ooc, I wouldn't really be able to tell because he has no personality :p I mean, last year I couldn't really tell because of the whole Mirakuru thing so I'll give them a pass. Hopefully they define his character a bit more this year. And I hope it's different from Felicity's personality or even Digg's and Oliver's. 

mm yeah tbh I don't know if the writers know what to do with Roy sometimes . I think they introduced him too early. His personality I guess is a snarky street kid/teenager who wants to help people and be a hero but is still kinda naive about the world? lol 

Edited October 27, 2014 by ban1o

[Danny Franks]

We have seen Sara's dead body and her funeral with Felicity and Oliver throwing dirt on the coffin but not of Tommy so he can always come back from dead like Malcom and Slade Wilson.

 

I've said it before, but it bears repeating (just in case the writers were considering this): I think it would send a pretty bad message if Tommy was resurrected. Because that would make him the third male to come back from the dead, on the show. Seems like death is more of a womanly affliction, huh?

 

As for the Malcolm stuff, I think that was when I first realised that these showrunners are just as full of shit as any. I'm pretty sure I remember them saying, quite unequivocally, that Malcolm was dead, during the summer after the first season. But they brought him back because Barrowman is popular, and they honestly didn't seem to have any idea what he was there for, until they figured out they could stick Thea with him (after giving any storylines she might have been due to other characters).

 

Sadly, the only stuff they've been honest about seems to be stuff I never wanted to see in the first place.

[wonderwall]

mm yeah tbh I don't know if the writers know what to do with Roy sometimes . I think they introduced him too early. His personality I guess is a street kid/teenager who wants to help people and be a hero but is still kinda naive about the world? lol 

Lmao, I don't think that is a personality. Just what he went through? IDK. Naive could be one I suppose. 

 

I agree. They don't really know what to do with Roy, and I'm pretty sure he's a character that's least important to the writers. I think they only see him as an apprentice and nothing else. He brings nothing new to the show other than drama with Thea, he's just dead weight right now (although he does provide some awesome parkour moves). 

[ban1o]

@Danny Franks. In an interview with Barrowman (I don't have the link) Barrowman said he was never dead and when he read the script  for the finale he asked the writers if he was actually dead and they said no, so I don't think they even intended for him to be dead. In the comics he is Green Arrow's main villain. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by ban1o

[Starfish35]

I don't remember reading them saying that Malcolm was absolutely dead. In fact that was my first clue that he wasn't going to be, because they were so definite about Tommy being dead, and then when it came to Malcolm they were all "well, he looked dead, didn't he?" and I'm like "yeah he's not dead".

[Chaser]

John Barrowman has a long history of not dying

[Velocity23]

http://tvline.com/2014/10/27/the-flash-season-1-spoilers-emily-bett-rickards-felicity-barry-romance/

 

Flash stars talk about Felicity in Flash.

[insubordination]

Katrina Law/Nyssa is just so charismatic, so tough and so pretty.  I fear for her life.

Edited October 28, 2014 by insubordination

[Orion]

Thinking about that promo for the Magician. Why wouldn't Sara tell Oliver about what she found out. She told him she was in town to see Laurel and only showed up to help out because she heard Felicity's radio chatter. Then she imparted her psychic wisdom about needing people without masks and left.  She knew about the earthquake because that's what brought her back to the city during season 2. Why wouldn't she tell Oliver about Malcolm the first chance she got?  I'm guessing she was tracking MM for the LOA but Oliver really needed to know about the guy that tried to destroy his city even if she didn't know that Malcolm was a threat to Oliver personally.  Hoping for an explanation for that.

[statsgirl]

I couldn't hear the clip properly but didn't Oliver already know from Sara two weeks earlier (love how that was just cued up) that Malcolm was alive.  But where?  Was he dropping in to Starling City occasionally?  Wouldn't someone recognize him?  He was on the news media a lot even before the notoriety of the earthquake.

 

Felcity's dialogue sounds better coming from Felicity.

 

And speaking of male to female ratios (on the Felicity thread), the Arrow cave there now has three men and one visiting woman.  I have a tipping point at which I'm no longer interested in a show, and that scene reached it.

 I don't think that whoever killed Sara was targeting Sara directly, but instead wanted the effects her death would cause. 

Poor Sara, it was never about her, always about Oliver or Laurel, or Slade or Ivo or even Nyssa.

 

Btw, no one thought of Lyla Michaels as a suspected killer of Sara, granted that she had just given birth but considering that she is an ARGUS agent and former special forces, that could be a possibility, esp. if they want to shift Oliver's manpain to Diggle in later season.

I don't think Lyla could have done it.  Wasn't Diggle with her when Sara was killed?

Edited October 28, 2014 by statsgirl

[ban1o]

Lyla legit had just given birth. No way she did it. 

[apinknightmare]

Lyla legit had just given birth. No way she did it. 

 

Seriously, I think if there's one person we can eliminate from the suspect pool, it's her. Although it would be the ultimate troll move to name your daughter after the woman you just murdered, haha.

[Starfish35]

Agreed. It wasn't Lyla.

I will be a little surprised if it's someone that's already appeared on the show. Other than Waller (and I don't think she'd do it herself - she'd order it done), I can't imagine what motivation anyone we already know might have to do that. Malcolm might, but since they're focusing on him as the guilty party in this week's episode, I think that's probably a sure sign he didn't.

I think it will most likely be someone we've not seen on the show before.

[writersblock51]

Thinking about that promo for the Magician. Why wouldn't Sara tell Oliver about what she found out. She told him she was in town to see Laurel and only showed up to help out because she heard Felicity's radio chatter. Then she imparted her psychic wisdom about needing people without masks and left.  She knew about the earthquake because that's what brought her back to the city during season 2. Why wouldn't she tell Oliver about Malcolm the first chance she got?  I'm guessing she was tracking MM for the LOA but Oliver really needed to know about the guy that tried to destroy his city even if she didn't know that Malcolm was a threat to Oliver personally.  Hoping for an explanation for that.

 

This.  And I don't know if the show is just putting shit together as they go but it's just 4 episodes in and this is a massive gaping hole to me. 

If Malcolm shot & killed Sara AND she'd figured out he was alive, then her reaction makes complete sense.  So that's fine.

 

But what isn't fine is that she told NO ONE that he was still alive.

 

And I hope we find out in the episode just how Oliver got those photos from her and found the 'blank' piece of paper.

 

Roy's been snarky before - his comments seemed in character to me.

 

I wanted Felicity in the lair (not necessarily in this scene) just so that she and Nyssa could see each other again. Heh. 

 

Nyssa even stands like a bad-ass.  I love her.

[statsgirl]

It looks like Sara told the LoA and Oliver that Malcolm was still alive.

 

Should she have told Quentin?  But what could he have done?  Although I guess at least the police could have opened a file on him.

Edited October 28, 2014 by statsgirl

[Velocity23]

Ok i might be remembering it all wrong. But didnt they say Canary ties to the Suicide Squad. Could it possibly have any ties to her killer?

 

Will we be seeing some Sara in Season 2.5?

Yes, actually you will. She actually plays a very big role in Season 2.5 and you’ll see her in two ways: you’ll see her in the Arrow story that we’re telling, but you’ll also see her in the Suicide Squad storyline that Keto Shimizu is writing. That, I think, Sara fans will really enjoy because you’ll get to see her in a different kind of light and in a different way than you’ve seen her in the past on Arrow.

[writersblock51]

Ugh. I miss Sara enough as it is - having her in 2.5 and then in upcoming flashbacks on the show only adds to my bitterness.

 

Wrong thread. Sorry.

[ban1o]

This.  And I don't know if the show is just putting shit together as they go but it's just 4 episodes in and this is a massive gaping hole to me. 

They probably do put shit together as they go along to be honest lol. 

[writersblock51]

They probably do put shit together as they go along to be honest lol. 

I really think they do for many of the arcs.  I think they have a beginning, a shocking twist and an ending and then have to scurry around to fill in the details.  Which often means that the story is filled with holes.

[TanyaKay]

Sooo they gave Felicity's lines to Roy for this episode. 

 

Nyssa is wonderful I hope she doesn't disappear a la Walter with her partner being gone.

 

I so agree with it. I mean Roy's delivery was nice but if it had been Felicity telling Oliver that his mom was a shady character, it would've been pure gold.

[apinknightmare]

And I hope we find out in the episode just how Oliver got those photos from her and found the 'blank' piece of paper.

 

The piece of paper was in her boot. I'm guessing they found the pictures on a flash drive or SD card that she had on her when she died.

[Morrigan2575]

Well these are the same writers that pulled the BS Mirakuru cure out of their butts late in 2B.

[apinknightmare]

The piece of paper was in her boot. I'm guessing they found the pictures on a flash drive or SD card that she had on her when she died.

 

Although...why it would've taken them weeks to look at either of these things is beyond me. So maybe she didn't have it on her when she died. But then...how did they get them? You know what? I'm stopping.

[statsgirl]

Oooh, they're so clever.... they will tell us Sara slipped him the pictures when they met on the rooftop out of sight of the camera.

[TanyaKay]

I really think they do for many of the arcs.  I think they have a beginning, a shocking twist and an ending and then have to scurry around to fill in the details.  Which often means that the story is filled with holes.

 

I agree. They just spin shit as they go along.

I bet they have no idea what to do with Ray Palmer either. Yes, he was a hero in comics so let's make him stalkerish and shady because that would be oh so shocking and now they have no idea what to do with him.

Stephen Amell is the main person of the show, if it is not connected to him, the story is probably not important and according to SA, Brandon and him have not worked together after the premiere and he was already filming episode 10 when he said that so he is another in a long list of characters who were added because DC was so kind to grant them another comic super hero.

[Velocity23]

 

People are fast lol

[apinknightmare]

Oooh, they're so clever.... they will tell us Sara slipped him the pictures when they met on the rooftop out of sight of the camera.

 

And he's only just getting around to looking at them three weeks later? He is a terrible investigator - even the SCPD would do better and that's saying something. IF ONLY QUENTIN KNEW

 

I really, REALLY hope it's something they just came across recently.

[Morrigan2575]

Laurel was probably looking for the perfect pair of boots to go with the magic jacket and came across the paper/drive.

[calliope1975]

Who is this quote from?

 

Will we be seeing some Sara in Season 2.5?

Yes, actually you will. She actually plays a very big role in Season 2.5 and you’ll see her in two ways: you’ll see her in the Arrow story that we’re telling, but you’ll also see her in the Suicide Squad storyline that Keto Shimizu is writing. That, I think, Sara fans will really enjoy because you’ll get to see her in a different kind of light and in a different way than you’ve seen her in the past on Arrow.

 

If it's an EP, then what a bunch of annoying fuckheads. Don't pat yourselves on the back like you've reinvented storytelling because you're going to tell some awesome Sara stories after you've brutally killed her off. Gah, it makes me so mad how they're handling this whole thing. Yeah, Sara fans will really appreciate seeing how amazing she was. Too bad you won't be able to see her journey continue, cuz we've got a hard on for a mediocre character/actress. 

 

Erm, that got really bitter, really fast. I apologize.

[Tangerine]

I'm curious as to the lead up to that sneak peek clip because I find it a bit weird how totally calm Nyssa is.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Tangerine

[statsgirl]

Nyssa's badass, she can take dripping wax any time.  Dripping hot oil too, I bet.

 

 

And he's only just getting around to looking at them three weeks later? He is a terrible investigator - even the SCPD would do better and that's saying something. IF ONLY QUENTIN KNEW

 

I really, REALLY hope it's something they just came across recently.

Oliver said Sara brought it to them two weeks ago -- which would be before he went looking for Thea. So why wouldn't he have told Thea that her batshit crazy bio dad is still alive?

[ban1o]

Nyssa's badass, she can take dripping wax any time.  Dripping hot oil too, I bet.

 

 

Oliver said Sara brought it to them two weeks ago -- which would be before he went looking for Thea. So why wouldn't he have told Thea that her batshit crazy bio dad is still alive?

lol so many plot holes. I just don't get the idea of Ollie knowing Malcolm was alive this whole time. It doesn't follow up with what has happened on the show. Why would he not suspect him right away? It doesn't make sense. 

[looptab]

What I got from the clip actually is that Oliver just found out (I think Nyssa told him) that Malcolm is still alive and that's why Sara was in town. As for the pictures, he says Sara took them two weeks ago, not that she gave them to him, so maybe they find the flashdrive in some sort of security box or something, again with Nyssa's help.

[Velocity23]

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/526967412927639552

MG teases that 3x05 will have some Olicity moments.

[Password]

I assumed as much because the synopsis says so. I imagine they'll reach an understanding.

Seriously with the paper and flash drive and NOT SHOWING US THEY FIND IT! OK we'll find out what happens. The plot craters are getting to me now.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Limbo

[Genki]

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/526967412927639552

MG teases that 3x05 will have some Olicity moments.

 

IMO he really has to start the damage control now (seriously Season 2b all over again) Oliver/Felicity moments will have been missing 3 episodes after S3.04, which considering they used this all hiatus long to tease and advertise. It's a major non-pay off, I don't care how much good stuff was in 3.01, the EPs negated any good will by killing Sara for Fakecanary.

 

Also I suspect it will be Laurel heavy again, so they are (IMO) starting to lower expectations, and of course building them up for sweeps.

[SleepDeprived]

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/526967412927639552

MG teases that 3x05 will have some Olicity moments.

 

There's a pay-off of Oliver/Felicity with interest... Really now? Yeah, no. I'll believe it when I see it, Guggenheim. Even as I have little doubt this episode will be Felicity-heavy (and I will be majorly pissed if the episode billed as her origins is hijacked to further someone else's storyline/journey more than hers), SA did film only 3/4 days out of the 7/8-day shooting schedule. Since Oliver also has the Thea B/C plot here aside from handling the crisis-of-the-week with Felicity, whatever moments those two lovelorn idiots might have, I'm afraid, might possibly be less about the quality moments than something that serves more as perfunctory to the A plot.

 

Maybe Felicity and Oliver come to an understanding about their "new" normal in 3x05 and share a moment that might ease the tension between them. Maybe they don't. But I just don't trust much of anything that the lying liars who lie tease the audience with, anymore. I'm approaching each episode with a healthy dose of apprehension and wariness so that I can, at least, be pleasantly surprised if or when cool/awesome/great/actual character development stuff happen.

[ostentatious]

I am so pleased to read in EBR's IGN interview that Felicity has a loving mom. I can just see this kind, hard-working single mom with a daughter she loves so much but cannot understand, who had a big brain and bigger ideas, and mom always felt like she deserved more than she could give her. If they go with that angle, I also expect some sort of Oliver moment with mom where he thinks about how he thinks Felicity deserves more than him, too.

[Chaser]

I think the 'Olicity' moment is between the mom and Oliver. I don't remember the exact wording of the conversation but someone on twitter asked CR if Felicity's mom saw the spark between Felicity and Oliver and CR answered in the affirmative. Since the show loves their parallels, I was thinking it would be similar to when Felicity spoke to Moira. "I see the way you look at him" and such. I would gather they get back on friendlier footing in this episode, but haven't had another heart-to-heart (per EBR's interview about Felicity's confusion). The conversation between Oliver and Mama Smoak would just be for Oliver and the viewers.

[ostentatious]

I think the 'Olicity' moment is between the mom and Oliver. I don't remember the exact wording of the conversation but someone on twitter asked CR if Felicity's mom saw the spark between Felicity and Oliver and CR answered in the affirmative. Since the show loves their parallels, I was thinking it would be similar to when Felicity spoke to Moira. "I see the way you look at him" and such. I would gather they get back on friendlier footing in this episode, but haven't had another heart-to-heart (per EBR's interview about Felicity's confusion). The conversation between Oliver and Mama Smoak would just be for Oliver and the viewers.

 

I was literally just starting a ficlet with that line.

 

I think you're right. My spec is that mom will discuss in a very pointed way how Felicity got into MIT and she had to let her go because she's special and was meant for big things.

[NumberCruncher]

That's been my thought for awhile now too. There is just too much juicy potential not to have Mama Smoak say something to Oliver about how he and her daughter act around each other. If it doesn't happen, the writers have dropped the ball.

Edited October 28, 2014 by NumberCruncher