Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Chaser]

20 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

What's funny about this is given all the things that she's been able to do in the past, there really isn't any reason for him to suspect how she's getting said information. I was expecting more of what happened in 12 - her going off on her own and threatening people to get info, not just digging it up off of a hard drive. Like...there's just not anything suspicious about that, haha.

"Felicity, you can't trust hackers!"

"Oliver, I'm a hacker."

"Well their shady. You are too close."

"You're sexing Rita Skeeter."

But seriously, I think something big has to actually happen in order to get his attention. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of faith in this because SA said it will be an "adult" conversation. "Adult" conversation to me sounds like Oliver just asks her to be careful and that's it.

[Trisha]

46 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

What's funny about this is given all the things that she's been able to do in the past, there really isn't any reason for him to suspect how she's getting said information

Exactly. Like in the last episode when Oliver was so impressed that she was able to narrow down Prometheus' mother's location to a state. I know the writers were trying to make it clear that she was using Pandora but it didn't seem any more impressive than everything else we've watched her do for five years. If anything, I was surprised that's all she was able to narrow it down to after three months of digging. 

[LeighAn]

I'm assuming there is going to be something more overt coming up for Felicity considering this storyline is supposedly going as long as 5x20. 

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I'm assuming there is going to be something more overt coming up for Felicity considering this storyline is supposedly going as long as 5x20. 

Oh yeah - I was just commenting because it doesn't seem to me like it's some huge oversight on Oliver's part because she just doesn't seem to be doing anything out of the ordinary yet. He knows something's up but she's not acting weird or doing anything differently than she'd normally do. I'm guessing there are more lines for her to cross soon.

[thegirlsleuth]

Please don't take this as a criticism, because I find it delightful, but I can't help but laugh at how many Harry Potter analogies people have made as they try to make sense of upcoming spoilers.  I think in the last week we've referenced Mad Eye Moody, Rita Skeeter, Dolores Umbridge, and probably a few more I'm forgetting. 

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Oh yeah - I was just commenting because it doesn't seem to me like it's some huge oversight on Oliver's part because she just doesn't seem to be doing anything out of the ordinary yet. He knows something's up but she's not acting weird or doing anything differently than she'd normally do. I'm guessing there are more lines for her to cross soon.

I thinks it's probably cause Felicity is usually pretty open about her hacking where as she has been acting clammed up and weird about Pandora  so Oliver assumes there's something else going on. That's my best explanation. He's taking his cues from her.

[finnaire]

First, it makes no sense that she's even keeping it a secret. I mean, why? It didn't come with some fearsome warning label that using it will cause catastrophic events. She's a hacker, she's using hacker tools.  What's the sudden need for "secrecy".   It does not compute. And, does she always explain how/where she comes by her info other than it's been hacked?  Do they understand it when she tries to explain? Do they really want to know? Do they care?  How is this a big deal?  Every time she hacks info they chance getting caught. 

Second, if this is the big secret, will Oliver really feel betrayed in any way Felicity did during BMD?  These two things are nothing alike.

Edited February 21, 2017 by finnaire

[LeighAn]

Just now, finnaire said:

 

Second, if this is the big secret, will Oliver really feel betrayed in any way Felicity did during BMD?   These two things are nothing alike.

The point isn't for Oliver to feel betrayed because they aren't comparing it to the BMD because the BMD wasn't about secrets. The reason Felicity gave when she broke up with Oliver was that he would always be compelled to go it alone and make unilateral decisions which she felt wasn't sustainable for them as a married couple because she saw marriage as inclusive.

So Felicity storyline is putting her in a place where she is making unilateral moves and "going it alone" so she can understand that part of Oliver- NOT so she can understand or sympathise with his lies. 

How that then ties back to repairing Olicity as a couple I couldn't say but Im sure there will be some convuluted tie in.

[LadyChaos]

13 minutes ago, finnaire said:

 

Second, if this is the big secret, will Oliver really feel betrayed in any way Felicity did during BMD?  These two things are nothing alike.

It depends on how its played..... TBH one might argue, the fact that FS took a stance of moral high ground against Oliver, called off not just their wedding but also their relationship because he lied by omission to protect his son, rather makes her decision to lie by omission worse because of how she reacted over his lie by omission especially since her lie affects not just him but all of the Arrow team.  

Edited February 21, 2017 by LadyChaos

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

How that then ties back to repairing Olicity as a couple I couldn't say but Im sure there will be some convuluted tie in.

If I had to make a wild guess, if real Oliver isn't locked in a trunk somewhere and he's legit supposed to be serious about Shady Susie and the Great Billy Malone Murder Investigation, then I suppose there could be a parallel to him trusting her and being betrayed because their whole "relationship" is based on a throne of lies. It's not on the same level as planning to marry someone while keeping a secret kid from them, but...few things are I suppose.

[way2interested]

Just now, finnaire said:

First, it makes no sense that she's even keeping it a secret. I mean, why? It didn't come with some fearsome warning label that using it will cause catastrophic events. She's a hacker, she's using hacker tools.  What's the sudden need for "secrecy".   It does not compute. And, does she always explain how/where she comes by her info other than it's been hacked?  Do they understand it when she tries to explain? Do they really want to know? Do they care?  How is this a big deal?  Every time she hacks info they chance getting caught. 

Second, if this is the big secret, will Oliver really feel betrayed in any way Felicity did during BMD?  These two things are nothing alike.

She did use the info to then blackmail a man and implicitly threaten his family and didn't tell anyone she did that (not even Rory, who just figured she crossed a line and didn't know what she actually said), so I don't think it's so much of her using Pandora as much as using it to do sketchy stuff. We never got a resolution on how Felicity felt after Oliver's words to them, only Diggle's later agreement (in fact, since Felicity was pretty readily willing to throw herself onto the nuke or send it to a less populated area again, there was already more evidence for her still going down the path she's on despite Oliver's words), so I would guess there would come up more situations in which she does sketchy things secretly using the info from Helix, which is what I'm thinking they're going to care more about and what the big deal is going to be. And then the betrayal would be more about doing less-than moral things alone rather than just simply keeping secrets.

[LeighAn]

Whose to say Oliver is going to feel betrayed or act judgemental. So far his attitude in regards to Felicity is to be worried and concerned, and frustrated at himself and the situation that he doesn't know what's going on. 

So I hope if Felicity is putting herself in harms way with this path he will continue to be worried and concerned for her and try and pull her back because that's what Felicity did with Oliver and hopefully that where the parrallel Stephen spoke about comes in.  

[LadyChaos]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

Whose to say Oliver is going to feel betrayed or act judgemental. So far his attitude in regards to Felicity is to be worried and concerned, and frustrated at himself and the situation that he doesn't know what's going on. 

So I hope if Felicity is putting herself in harms way with this path he will continue to be worried and concerned for her and try and pull her back because that's what Felicity did with Oliver and hopefully that where the parrallel Stephen spoke about comes in.  

I would love to see this being the was it goes..... However they said the DMB would be handled with maturity too.....so I don't trust that this will be handled much better.

[way2interested]

I don't think they said that the BMD would be handled with maturity (or did they? I honestly don't remember anything like that said right before it happened, only stuff that was trying to defend Oliver's side), I only remember that they said that about Oliver and Felicity afterwards (post 417) would be mature about it, which in turn actually meant barely acknowledging the break-up and acting as if they were never engaged. 

[LadyChaos]

3 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I don't think they said that the BMD would be handled with maturity (or did they? I honestly don't remember anything like that said right before it happened, only stuff that was trying to defend Oliver's side), I only remember that they said that about Oliver and Felicity afterwards (post 417) would be mature about it, which in turn actually meant barely acknowledging the break-up and acting as if they were never engaged. 

They did, and I was at the con where SA grudgingly repeated what TPTB  had said about that it would be handled with maturity.....you could tell he hated the way it was handled.

Edited February 21, 2017 by LadyChaos

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, LadyChaos said:

They did, and I was at the con where SA grudgingly repeated TPTB that it would be handled with maturity.....you could tell he hated the way it was handled.

Ah, I get you. I got SA confused with the EPs. I remember SA saying that but I didn't remember anything immediately like that from the EPs for it(and they did say things like "professional," and "mature" to describe Oliver and Felicity's relationship at times where I didn't agree or like it). I get being concerned since SA's also the one saying "maturity" around this time then too, but idk I guess I'm still in the leeway spot where I have no idea where this is going (whereas for 415 we all kind of knew where it was going) and his is the only real comment about how Oliver will react to any of this.

Edited February 22, 2017 by way2interested

[LeighAn]

I thought they said the break up would be handled maturely too. And I guess you could say that was accurate because Oliver and Felicity did keep things adult and above board and not petty.

[LadyChaos]

Just now, way2interested said:

Ah, I get you. I got SA confused with the EPs. I remember SA saying that but I didn't remember anything like that from the EPs for it(and they did say things like "professional," and "mature" to describe Oliver and Felicity's relationship at times where I didn't agree or like it). I get being concerned since SA's also the one saying "maturity" around this time then too, but idk I guess I'm still in the leeway spot where I have no idea where this is going (whereas for 415 we all kind of knew where it was going) and his is the only real comment about how Oliver will react to any of this.

My problem comes with the fact that clearly for a group of 40+ married men they don't understand mature relationships or the word mature at all.

[thegirlsleuth]

They seem to think mature means nonconfrontational instead of honest.

[LadyChaos]

Just now, LeighAn said:

I thought they said the break up would be handled maturely too. And I guess you could say that was accurate because Oliver and Felicity did keep things adult and above board and not petty.

Well...that depends on what you consider mature......

Felicity knew who she was dating and got engaged to...he didn't magically change just because he wanted to get married.  She walked away at the first reminder that this was the man she was with, like she didn't't know before.  She didn't give him a chance to explain, she didn't give him a chance to try to make it right, and she just up and walked away from him and the team(temporarily) because she had a reminder of who he is.

Which really really made her a hypocrite for forgiving her mother for choosing to lie to her for 20 years in a way that led to a lot of emotional and relationship issues for her for years.

[ComicFan777]

From what I recall, Oliver spent most of 4.15 explaining himself to Felicity so I do think she did give him a chance to explain himself.  I don't know how he can make it right when he had been lying to her about his secret son and his visits to Central City.  He had enough time to apologize to Diggle for his secret, but didn't apologize to Felicity.  What else is Felicity supposed to do when he had been lying the whole time, kept her out of the loop even after Malcolm found out, sent his son away without talking to her, but had time to discuss it with Diggle and Vixen.

Edited February 22, 2017 by ComicFan777

[LeighAn]

I guess I look at it as taking stock as what she could handle as his team partner and what she could handle in her imminent marriage. 

[AyChihuahua]

1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

It depends on how its played..... TBH one might argue, the fact that FS took a stance of moral high ground against Oliver, called off not just their wedding but also their relationship because he lied by omission to protect his son, rather makes her decision to lie by omission worse because of how she reacted over his lie by omission especially since her lie affects not just him but all of the Arrow team.  

Factually speaking it was not a lie of omission. It was TWO lies of commission. "It doesn't matter" is a lie bc he knew it mattered, so much so that he expected her to dump him for it, and "it's over" when he already told the kid he'd be back and in fact he did return.

And how, specifically, did lying to Felicity protect the kid? Is she a child killer? If yes, why would Oliver want to marry her at all?

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

If I had to make a wild guess, if real Oliver isn't locked in a trunk somewhere and he's legit supposed to be serious about Shady Susie and the Great Billy Malone Murder Investigation, then I suppose there could be a parallel to him trusting her and being betrayed because their whole "relationship" is based on a throne of lies. It's not on the same level as planning to marry someone while keeping a secret kid from them, but...few things are I suppose.

Wait, is he Felicity in this situation?

THAT I could live with. 

Edited February 22, 2017 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Wait, is he Felicity in this situation?

THAT I could live with. 

I was thinking so, yeah.

[AyChihuahua]

26 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

Well...that depends on what you consider mature......

Felicity knew who she was dating and got engaged to...he didn't magically change just because he wanted to get married.  She walked away at the first reminder that this was the man she was with, like she didn't't know before.  She didn't give him a chance to explain, she didn't give him a chance to try to make it right, and she just up and walked away from him and the team(temporarily) because she had a reminder of who he is.

Which really really made her a hypocrite for forgiving her mother for choosing to lie to her for 20 years in a way that led to a lot of emotional and relationship issues for her for years.

She stuck by him through everything in S1, everything in S2, everything in S3, forgave him for fake-killing her, saved his life, left town with him at his request, giving up EVERYTHING to do so, and stuck by him through two batcrap crazy exes and a batcrap crazy sister, until finally, FINALLY, she was tired of him lying to her face. That was not the first time he'd lied to her, or the second time, or the twelfth time. It was about the 57th. How is that "at the first reminder"? 

And he had ample time to explain. Instead he ignored her, LITERALLY IGNORED HIS FIANCEE, while choosing to speak with and get advice from Digg, his good friend, and Vixen, A WOMAN HE HAD MET ONCE BEFORE IN HIS WHOLE LIFE. Instead of chatting with this rando, he could have chosen to speak with the woman he was trying to make into a stepmother without her knowledge or consent. Nope. Ignored her and chatted up randos.

And how exactly did he try to make it right? When he was ignoring her, exposing her identity to a known liar, choosing to speak with everyone except her, admitting half the country knew before her, or choosing to send the dumb kid away (which is a pretty good signal to her that he probably won't want kids WITH HER), without so much as CHATTING with her? 

Her mother actually WAS lying to protect her from a known actual criminal, Noah. Not to mention Felicity was kind of in the middle of trying to save the whole world and probably didn't want to have a big fight with her. No one, EVER, has explained to me how Felicity knowing would in any way, literally any way, endanger that moronic kid. If you want to equate Noah and Felicity, I'm going to need you to help me understand how exactly she endangered the kid (and if she did, why in the world he'd want to marry her).

[finnaire]

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

She did use the info to then blackmail a man and implicitly threaten his family and didn't tell anyone she did that (not even Rory, who just figured she crossed a line and didn't know what she actually said), so I don't think it's so much of her using Pandora as much as using it to do sketchy stuff. We never got a resolution on how Felicity felt after Oliver's words to them, only Diggle's later agreement (in fact, since Felicity was pretty readily willing to throw herself onto the nuke or send it to a less populated area again, there was already more evidence for her still going down the path she's on despite Oliver's words), so I would guess there would come up more situations in which she does sketchy things secretly using the info from Helix, which is what I'm thinking they're going to care more about and what the big deal is going to be. And then the betrayal would be more about doing less-than moral things alone rather than just simply keeping secrets.

Bitch with Wifi and Diggle used info to blackmail someone before.  And that time she actually followed through and zeroed out that guy's accounts. This time she only threatened and never followed through.  And, if he hadn't cracked, presumably she wouldn't have followed through since it was actual life/death situation if she did.  It's just hard for me to equate BMD to hacker secret keeping.  For her to "learn a lessson" means there has to be some fallout for Oliver to react to so that she sees the error of her ways.  The only way I can see this happening is if she winds up in physical danger and/or gets harmed.

[Velocity23]

 

 

http://ew.com/tv/2017/02/21/arrow-stephen-amell-spoilers/

[AyChihuahua]

36 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

Well...that depends on what you consider mature......

Felicity knew who she was dating and got engaged to...he didn't magically change just because he wanted to get married.  She walked away at the first reminder that this was the man she was with, like she didn't't know before.  She didn't give him a chance to explain, she didn't give him a chance to try to make it right, and she just up and walked away from him and the team(temporarily) because she had a reminder of who he is.

Which really really made her a hypocrite for forgiving her mother for choosing to lie to her for 20 years in a way that led to a lot of emotional and relationship issues for her for years.

See above, but seriously, how in the world was his 57th lie "the first reminder"?

Edited February 22, 2017 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/02/21/arrow-stephen-amell-spoilers/

LMAO, she just could not help herself:

Quote

Arrow airs Wednesdays at 8 p.m. ET on The CW. Stay tuned for more scoop from Amell, including his take on a potential Dinah Drake-Oliver Queen romance.

[AyChihuahua]

29 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

From what I recall, Oliver spent most of 4.15 explaining himself to Felicity so I do think she did give him a chance to explain himself.

He really didn't. He mostly ignored her and chatted up randos.

[finnaire]

13 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Factually speaking it was not a lie of omission. It was TWO lies of commission. "It doesn't matter" is a lie bc he knew it mattered, so much so that he expected her to dump him for it, and "it's over" when he already told the kid he'd be back and in fact he did return.

And how, specifically, did lying to Felicity protect the kid? Is she a child killer? If yes, why would Oliver want to marry her at all?

Wait, is he Felicity in this situation?

THAT I could live with. 

Yeah, now that I could see and potentially like a lot.

[Mellowyellow]

Agree with everything you said @AyChihuahua plus I would have hacked his stuff with scissors and possibly burnt down the loft. But that's just how I roll! 

I am hopeful that this silly story about Felicity now keeping things from him is their clumsy attempt to get them back together! Please let it be so! I will accept all of your feral writing just put them back together!!!!!!!!

[AyChihuahua]

Just now, Mellowyellow said:

Agree with everything you said @AyChihuahua plus I would have hacked his stuff with scissors and possibly burnt down the loft. But that's just how I roll! 

I am hopeful that this silly story about Felicity now keeping things from him is their clumsy attempt to get them back together! Please let it be so! I will accept all of your feral writing just put them back together!!!!!!!!

Seriously. Saying she gave up at the first problem is ignoring 3.5 years of show canon.

[LeighAn]

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

 

 

http://ew.com/tv/2017/02/21/arrow-stephen-amell-spoilers/

I was just coming to post this. If people were waiting for the positive hopeful articles re Olicity looks like it's slowly starting. 

And I like that Stephen spells out that it's Felicitys reactions to things that have him worried and not her hacking perse. I also thought he played the torture scene in 5x12 as being freaked by Felicitys chill reaction.

Its not hearts and kisses but I'm feeling pretty good about where Olicity stands.

[Morrigan2575]

7 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

 

 

http://ew.com/tv/2017/02/21/arrow-stephen-amell-spoilers/

why does that first quote make me think we're getting a flashback to the summer between S4 and S5?

Edited February 22, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/02/21/arrow-stephen-amell-spoilers/

Even after reading that entire interview, I still can't bring myself to care about Oliver right now. I don't care what's going to happen to him as GA or mayor. 

I did like that SA brought up the Russia episode - he was there to see her just ask if Diggle got any information - but it also just reminds me that there's so much about Russia that no one else knows now that Rory's gone: the blackmailing (Curtis was apparently just ... there ... for that and he zoned out I guess?), her wanting to fly the nuke out of there, wear the rags, etc. I doubt those things will be brought up in a future episode, unless Felicity says something. 

[LeighAn]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

LMAO, she just could not help herself:

Bleh. This should be interesting. I can tells she's going to make a whole article out of what will be probably a nothing quote. But fandom-mainly Twitter- will freak the eff out over it anyway as proof that it must mean the comic canon apocalypse because they don't love themselves. 

[AyChihuahua]

I feel like people think "lie of omission" means "little white lie." That is just not correct. Lie of omission has an actual definition, and it's NOT what Oliver did. I've said this before, but a lie of omission would have been "I saw an old girlfriend while we were in Central City who I hadn't treated well, and it brought up a lot of feelings." [End statement.] Everything he said is true, but he left out a hugely relevant fact...that said old girlfriend had birthed his moronic demon spawn and was now blackmailing him. THAT would have been a lie of omission.

[insomniadreams88]

I still want to know where that second check went. Didn't Moira offer Samantha two checks? Sadly, I doubt the fact that Moira paid her off will ever be brought up again. 

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

why does that first quote make me think we're getting a flashback to the summer between S4 and S5?

Relapse sex!! A girl can dream.

[AyChihuahua]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I still want to know where that second check went. Didn't Moira offer Samantha two checks? Sadly, I doubt the fact that Moira paid her off will ever be brought up again. 

Yes, Moira gave her one check then and there and said she'd send another after BM took her trashy self to CC. 

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

Relapse sex!! A girl can dream.

All joking aside, I did go back to SAs quote from SDCC where he talked about tequila

[LeighAn]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

All joking aside, I did go back to SAs quote from SDCC where he talked about tequila

Well we did think he was joking about shooting Billy with four arrows....

[Balaclava]

12 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

why does that first quote make me think we're getting a flashback to the summer between S4 and S5?

you might not be wrong :)

Edited February 22, 2017 by Balaclava

[Mellowyellow]

4 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Relapse sex!! A girl can dream.

It might actually be a really good way to appease fandom while still stalling them! hehe It's not impossible!

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Bleh. This should be interesting. I can tells she's going to make a whole article out of what will be probably a nothing quote. But fandom-mainly Twitter- will freak the eff out over it anyway as proof that it must mean the comic canon apocalypse because they don't love themselves. 

She will - she posts her articles directly over on reddit, so she's definitely gonna give them something to chew on if she can.

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, Balaclava said:

why might not be wrong :)

Relapse sex! Relapse sex! Relapse sex! (Picture me as a football fan chanting)

All jokes aside my serious spec is that we see a scene where either Oliver or Felicity make an attempt to reunite but star crossed lovers  and all that jazz something intervenes or gets in there way. 

Either that or we see them have the where do we stand discussion that the summer hiatus meant we skipped over.

I think any flashback or reference to the past would have to apply somehow with where Olicity stand in the present. 

Just now, apinknightmare said:

She will - she posts her articles directly over on reddit, so she's definitely gonna give them something to chew on if she can.

Really? So she's full comic canon troll?

[JJ928]

I forgot about SA's tequila joke at SDCC. I also forgot about arrowing her boyfriend. Who knows, @Morrigan2575 you may be right about the flashbacks, I hope you are.

[LeighAn]

I'm guessing Stephens quote will go something like this:

"Juliana's  a great girl we love having her on the show. Black Canary is so important to the Green Arrow legacy and I know there's a lot of comic fans eager to see that relationship so we will have to see what happens in the future.

Right now Olivers really focused on his relationship with Susan, they have a connection....."

Isn't that usually the standard answer he'd give when asked about Laurel?

Edited February 22, 2017 by LeighAn

[Guest]

Quote

Stay tuned for more scoop from Amell, including his take on a potential Dinah Drake-Oliver Queen romance.

Is it weird that I'm actually curious about what he says? I think if that is on the cards, we'll get a hint of it in the interview. Or maybe it'll be "Anything can happen!" LOL. 

Sometimes I wish they'd just tell us outright even though I know they'll never do that. But at this point I just want to know so I can let go for good. Haha.

It's weird though, I always thought Abrams was pretty loyal to Laurel. Guess she's just loyal to any old BC!