Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Midnight Lullaby]

5 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

If that's the case I sincerely apologise. I guess I was feeling a little defensive as it seems we are constantly stuck on the Tina/Oliver romance hysteria merry go round in this thread that I'm looking to get off of.

I was in the wrong sorry. 

No worries, I'm glad we understood each other :)

[LeighAn]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

It's only gonna get worse, haha. Especially since the spec here just isn't about speculating-it's also about keeping score for whatever reason. 

You're probably right. That's why I'm hoping there's nothing slightly taken as romantic in the next episode cause I liked after last ep when everyone was happy and hopefully about Arrow again because of all the HBIC Felicity.

[MaisyDaisy]

I am genuinely perplexed at why we are seemingly allowed to talk about any out there ideas/theories- just not Tina/Dinah? 

The context is there, personally I think it's ratings suicide, but surely discussing what seems increasingly plausible is ok?

[apinknightmare]

Just now, MaisyDaisy said:

I am genuinely perplexed at why we are seemingly allowed to talk about any out there ideas/theories- just not Tina/Dinah? 

The context is there, personally I think it's ratings suicide, but surely discussing what seems increasingly plausible is ok?

Personally, I don't mind the theorizing, but I think the conversation devolves to offputting levels whenever the possibility is brought up. I can understand why some posters would want to avoid it.

[Mellowyellow]

I think everyone is just high strung right now. Some people want to vent, some want to cry (this is me!!!), some are still positive (I want to be like you guys I really do).

I really don't think there is any score keeping. I see it as frustrated fans saying "I knew this sh@t would happen because these ffing sh#t writers are going to screw us all."

But most of us are probably bummed right now after that spoiler.

[bijoux]

Unrelated to this, SA mentioned a Suicide Squad member showing up. He means Cupid, not anyone else, right? I'm trying to think who's still alive. Captain Boomerang, the Bronze Tiger? Or have I forgotten about their deaths? Entirely possible.

[apinknightmare]

Just now, bijoux said:

Unrelated to this, SA mentioned a Suicide Squad member showing up. He means Cupid, not anyone else, right? I'm trying to think who's still alive. Captain Boomerang, the Bronze Tiger? Or have I forgotten about their deaths? Entirely possible.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's talking about Cupid.

[LeighAn]

2 minutes ago, MaisyDaisy said:

I am genuinely perplexed at why we are seemingly allowed to talk about any out there ideas/theories- just not Tina/Dinah? 

The context is there, personally I think it's ratings suicide, but surely discussing what seems increasingly plausible is ok?

I mean go for it. I haven't read the spoilers yet so I don't have the full context. It just seems like people jumped the gun the last time this guy spoiled an episode who's to say we aren't jumping the gun again? 

I'm mean we literally have a couple of hours before we will have confirmation one way or the other because given she's introduced half way through the season if they are hooking Oliver and Tina/Dinah up they will pretty much have to start right from the get go.

So if the scene is played romantically or an anvil to future romance we will have our answer. But there's nothing to say it won't go the other way.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I don't mind the theorizing about anything, what I mind personally is the tone that the conversation takes. That doesn't mean I feel I have a right to tell people what they can or can't talk about, just that I dislike when the conversation turns nasty for my tastes..

[Velocity23]

So did they run out of time ... 

[Guest]

So her contract basically amounted to three appearances? That's...well. Okay then.

[Sakura12]

She's got the same name, the same ability and she lost someone. 3 for 3 on the first try, get yourself a lottery ticket, Oliver or better yet go to a casino.

KC is not going to be in LoT? That's great news! 

[LeighAn]

What about Flash?

[Velocity23]

As far as i know Flash is filming 3x16 right now with Eddie and Ronnie making an appearance, 3x17 is the musical episode ... Not that many episodes left for a filler episode with BS. 

[apinknightmare]

I don't care enough to go back and find the interview, but didn't he mention Laurel's arc on LoT as something he was most excited about this season? He talked about it like it was a done deal. If not...yikes!

[Velocity23]

LOT should be on episode 2x16 as of today. So only 1 episode left. 

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't care enough to go back and find the interview, but didn't he mention Laurel's arc on LoT as something he was most excited about this season? He talked about it like it was a done deal. If not...yikes!

I don't remember arc, I remember story and yeah he talked about how it was something he was very excited for.

ETA, did I miss something in the twitter picture? Did it say KC not showing up on LoT?

Edited February 1, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Sakura12]

I think they did say they had an exciting idea for Laurel on LoT. I never took that that as a done deal. I also never took her "contract" has anything other than an as needed guest appearence contract. And she wasn't needed as they wrote their season. 

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't care enough to go back and find the interview, but didn't he mention Laurel's arc on LoT as something he was most excited about this season? He talked about it like it was a done deal. If not...yikes!

Some one tweeted it to Marc. He said they had a story in mind but it was too early to spoil but it was going to be really awesome 

[apinknightmare]

Someone linked to the interview in an @ to MG's comment: 

Quote

On "Legends of Tomorrow" Wentworth and John will be members of the Legion of Doom. Katie is a far more interesting question because we actually have a story for Katie on “Legends of Tomorrow” that I am super excited about. It could be the thing I’m most excited about. But it’s early, and we’re not ready to spoil what that’s going to be. I think it could be really, really awesome.

[MaisyDaisy]

I took a quick look at the dark side, because I was curious about the #noLaurelnoArrow crowd, and I noticed that in their manifestos they state that there can be no GA without BC, many of them clarify BC as needing to be Laurel Lance or Dinah Drake. So in theory MG has basically muzzled them, I think? Because both those arguments no longer hold weight because there will be a BC and she will be called Dinah Drake. 

It will be interesting to see how it goes.

[LeighAn]

Yeah well Dinah Drake also wasn't who Oliver romanced in the comics someone informed me on Twitter. So maybe it really is a way to appease the comic fans without the romantic baggage *shrug* 

[Mellowyellow]

11 minutes ago, MaisyDaisy said:

I took a quick look at the dark side, because I was curious about the #noLaurelnoArrow crowd, and I noticed that in their manifestos they state that there can be no GA without BC, many of them clarify BC as needing to be Laurel Lance or Dinah Drake. So in theory MG has basically muzzled them, I think? Because both those arguments no longer hold weight because there will be a BC and she will be called Dinah Drake. 

It will be interesting to see how it goes.

Why aren't they appeasing Olicity fans? Why are we left in the cold? *wails*

[Velocity23]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

Why aren't they appeasing Olicity fans? Why are we left in the cold? *wails*

Because its all building up towards the moment. The BC backstory will be done in 1 episode. 

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Yeah well Dinah Drake also wasn't who Oliver romanced in the comics someone informed me on Twitter. So maybe it really is a way to appease the comic fans without the romantic baggage *shrug* 

See my previous post, depends on which comics you're reading. 

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

Because its all building up towards the moment. The BC backstory will be done in 1 episode. 

I'm trusting you!!!!!! The moment you give up I'm quitting this ship!!!! So please do come in and announce it clearly if you do give up!

*wails*

I can't take this stress! Real life is stressfull!!!! I just want pretty fictional people to have fictional babies!!!!!!!

[MaisyDaisy]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

Why aren't they appeasing Olicity fans? Why are we left in the cold? *wails*

Oh I don't think they are appeasing them- not the #NoLaurelNoArrow crowd, because ultimately they seemed to want KC, they just legitimized that by adding comic canon to their justification of the massive tantrum they threw online. But wily ex lawyer MG, put them in checkmate by giving them exactly what they asked for delivered in a way they actually didn't want. Really it's just a continuation of the big fuck you to them that he has been subtlety writing for a while.

Its just unfortunate that other characters/relationships/ friendships are perhaps going to get caught in the mess.

[ComicFan777]

I think one of the comic origins (?in the 70's) for BC is that Dinah Drake was married to Lance, he died, and she went on to meet/date GA when she was moving on.  This also seems to be to get Tina's back story to align with comic Dinah Drake's - Vince is basically comic Lance (assuming Vince is someone she dated or married).

Edited February 1, 2017 by ComicFan777

[dtissagirl]

The evil side of me actually wants to see these hacks to go full garbage fire here. Because the potential for FUNNY is stratospheric. I can imagine them trying to rationalize in the writing of the show what does it mean if Oliver inserts his dick into a second Dinah who has Laurel's name and Laurel's codename and the improved version of Laurel's canary cry. I mean, seriously, I legit want to read a Guggenheim interview about that.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Just now, dtissagirl said:

The evil side of me actually wants to see these hacks to go full garbage fire here. Because the potential for FUNNY is stratospheric. I can imagine them trying to rationalize in the writing of the show what does it mean if Oliver inserts his dick into a second Dinah who has Laurel's name and Laurel's codename and the improved version of Laurel's canary cry. I mean, seriously, I legit want to read a Guggenheim interview about that.

"It was organic. We had to write that game changing moment."

There. LOL

[MaisyDaisy]

One of the things that's kinda bothering me is as much as I didn't like Laurel (or KCs portrayal), the way she was essentially lifted out and another character slotted into her place makes me uneasy. I just don't think female characters should be so interchangeable, it's like they lifted up a six tile blue Lego and replaced it with a six tile red one. 

I am just side eyeing the writing a little.

[LeighAn]

Marc's already on the defensive about Tina with the reiterating the sides were fake even when not specifically asked.

[apinknightmare]

Look, I can deal with metahumans and magic herbs and alien invasions and whatnot, but I am having such difficulty with Dinah Laurel Lance with the canary cry collar's replacement being Dinah Drake with the real canary cry who lost her guy in the same way Laurel died and does she have a sister named SaraH? And they just randomly found this chick? LOL

Oliver knows THREE Dinahs now. THREE. You are asking me to suspend my disbelief to the MAX, show. THE MAX.

Edited February 1, 2017 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

2 minutes ago, MaisyDaisy said:

One of the things that's kinda bothering me is as much as I didn't like Laurel (or KCs portrayal), the way she was essentially lifted out and another character slotted into her place makes me uneasy. I just don't think female characters should be so interchangeable, it's like they lifted up a six tile blue Lego and replaced it with a six tile red one.

Oh yeah, that's super gross. And they had already slotted Laurel into Sara's place in S3 in a very single white female way. And now they're replacing Laurel with Tina via name and codename and meta canary cry that ~just so~ happens to be the improvement of the tech canary cry that Laurel stole from Sara. It's pretty awful.
 

[AyChihuahua]

3 hours ago, sara1121 said:

Yes we certainly will. It's a win/win scenario for me - either I was right, in that case, yay for my deductive reasoning, or alternatively, Olicity get back together, and that would be even better.

I don't know that we'll even see then, really. I think GA/BC will mostly be an S6 thing, so unless O/F pretty much end the season happily married (possible, with this show), nothing's really done in 523. I'm pretty much expecting an S6 triangle.

Also, LOL x10000000.

[smoaksmichaelas]

5 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Ok random sleep-deprived crazy wild speculation.  

There was some rumblings about a new spinoff, right? Geoff Johns mentioned that they would be announcing another show, although he didn't say spin-off.

What if (all disclaimers about crazy speculation apply) instead of being a setup for a new GA/BC partnership, this is all setup for a new spinoff, with Black Canary headlining, or at least playing a significant role? They couldn't do it with KC's BC because she was too unpopular polarizing.  (And Sara is anchoring a different show).  But a new Canary with all the proper comic book creds....well.  That might be a different story.  Especially if Barbara Gordon is back on the table since Titans is no longer a thing.  

I don't know.  What do you think?  Too crazy of a theory? 

This has crossed my mind several times actually. I would love it.

[ComicFan777]

Even if the comic fans support nuBC as Tina/Dinah Drake, is that really enough to carry the show?  Laurel fans are long gone.  I'm sure at least some of the olicity fans will be gone instead of sticking around to see whether a GA/BC romance happens or a dreaded love triangle - it sounds like a train wreck.

Who's left?  Are they really that confident that basically a portion of comic fans and action lovers will be enough viewership?   
Unless they are planning to finish in S6, the direction of the story is really baffling me.

[AyChihuahua]

7 minutes ago, smoaksmichaelas said:

This has crossed my mind several times actually. I would love it.

Yeah, I said a couple months ago that that would make everything this season make much more sense. With overall ratings falling though, would they do that?

[Morrigan2575]

26 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Look, I can deal with metahumans and magic herbs and alien invasions and whatnot, but I am having such difficulty with Dinah Laurel Lance with the canary cry collar's replacement being Dinah Drake with the real canary cry who lost her guy in the same way Laurel died and does she have a sister named SaraH? And they just randomly found this chick? LOL

Oliver knows THREE Dinahs now. THREE. You are asking me to suspend my disbelief to the MAX, show. THE MAX.

Isn't it funny that something that simple can break your willing suspension of disbelief. It's always the real life based things that send me over the edge.

[AyChihuahua]

5 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

Even if the comic fans support nuBC as Tina/Dinah Drake, is that really enough to carry the show?  Laurel fans are long gone.  I'm sure at least some of the olicity fans will be gone instead of sticking around to see whether a GA/BC romance happens or a dreaded love triangle - it sounds like a train wreck.

Who's left?  Are they really that confident that basically a portion of comic fans and action lovers will be enough viewership?   
Unless they are planning to finish in S6, the direction of the story is really baffling me.

General audience? I don't think they mostly care that much about specific issues.

[ComicFan777]

Yeah, but if we go by ratings as indicating the general audience - it's slipping, so not so great either.
If social media is mostly diehard fans and if it's important to the network, that might dwindle too.

Edited February 1, 2017 by ComicFan777

[AyChihuahua]

1 minute ago, ComicFan777 said:

Yeah, but if we go by ratings as indicating the general audience - it's slipping, so not so great either.

I think that's maybe all they're going to be left with soon. 

[apinknightmare]

12 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Isn't it funny that something that simple can break your willing suspension of disbelief. It's always the real life based things that send me over the edge.

Seriously. I can look the other way at ridiculous hacking and other feats that are impossible, but I refuse to believe that Dinah's replacement is also Dinah who has the real version of the collar the other Dinah used and that she lost someone in the same way Oliver did and that Curtis just randomly found her on the street. It's too much. Even one of those things is too much, but it's anvil on top of anvil on top of anvil until you're Wile E. Coyote smushed in the street.

 

I'm also really bothered by her telling Oliver that she and this Vincent person were "lovers," like this is the Thorn Birds FFS.

Edited February 1, 2017 by apinknightmare

[insomniadreams88]

43 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Oliver knows THREE Dinahs now. THREE. You are asking me to suspend my disbelief to the MAX, show. THE MAX.

And it's not like Dinah is that common of a name. Tina is more common than Dinah. Joanna (hey, remember her?) is more common than Dinah. Rory is a more common name and we don't have more than one on the same show. This is ridiculous.

But having her take on the Black Canary name should be easy. "Well, since my friend's name was also Dinah, though we never called her that, you can also be the Black Canary. Easy, right? Great!" 

Although I did have a thought - if they pair Dinah and Rene, their shipper name can be Dine. 

[EmilyBettFan]

You know the writing sucks when people can find the "gotchas" before episodes air.

[dtissagirl]

8 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Although I did have a thought - if they pair Dinah and Rene, their shipper name can be Dine. 

If they pair up Chase and Dinah, it can be Chinah.

Sorry I'll see myself out now.

[LeighAn]

I saw someone suggest on Twitter DingDong for Dinah/Wild Dog haha.

[Morrigan2575]

At least people can find the humor. Always mock the absurd shit shows do.

[insomniadreams88]

I feel like this is a lot to put on a recurring character - the name Dinah Drake, a "second chance" - especially since they have no idea how she'll be received. But we'll probably get some tweets about "amazing dailies" and maybe even interviews about "great chemistry between her and SA." 

Or they just won't care about the audience reception of her and will announce as soon as tomorrow that she's a series regular for S6.

[tarotx]

LOL. I knew the slides felt very cartoon Dinah/Oliver. And now they giving her the Dinah name? I thought that would be a possibility.  This is the second time Sara is getting everything taken from her. And what they are doing to KC is pretty nasty even if they hate the women. It's interesting because it seems they really do hate her. And so far Dinah seems more Wild Dog than Sara so it's everything I don't want for the character. Dinah is hard but there is a sweetness underneath that is missing from the previews. But I don't know. I'm barely even watching the show. I haven't watched either of the last two episodes yet. I've only watched 4 Flash episodes all season. I guess I'm only watching Legends at this point but I feel Sara is going to get short-changed there soon. Right now I just feel like I'm wasting my time caring about the characters I care about-OTA, Sara and Thea.