Spoiler Discussion Thread

[CabotCove]

Quote

I really don't think they are trying to drop O/F for good and write a brand-new love story*. I think they are trying to put structures in place for a longer-term ship stall--like, a whole season (based on WM's ill-considered words) plus maybe part of next to actually get them back together?

So they insert this out-of-nowhere boyfriend whom no one could be reasonably expected to ever care about, given that we didn't see them get together and we didn't even know him prior to that. Even Ray and Felicity got a romantic storyline arc, no matter how shitty, and they never intended that relationship to last.

Why does the show has to be written from an Olicity POV all the time and forever?, they are not obligated to follow through the Olicity forever and ever. Its not above TV storytelling traditions. Its happens that a show can move from a  main ship to the other after a long time, it can happen. The new relationships can be written with a different or personal purpose that is not about stalling Olicity, not everything has to be filtered through Olicity. Its just really seems dismissive of these characters and relationships and thats before they even have a chance. Im not saying anything is definite one way or the other but anything can happen in TV Land. 

Change is what brought Olicity, change is also an equal opportunity thing. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by DCLeague

[looptab]

12 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

 

What irritated me more than anything was Wendy's comment about Oliver and Felicity's "lingering feelings," like they just dated for a while and things never quite worked out for them as opposed to being two people who were going to get married. Ugh.

Ha, I put a positive spin on that 'lingering feelings' as well. I interpreted that as them still having a connection throughout the various LIs. Truth be told, though, I read the interview very late last night - or early this morning? Don't even remember that, haha - so I surely wasn't fully awake to process it.  I'm not telling anyone to 'trust the writers', I swear :)

Edited October 11, 2016 by looptab

[Midnight Lullaby]

32 minutes ago, looptab said:

Don't take this the wrong way - I'm in no way criticizing or judging anyone for feeling what they feel - but how is this latest interview any different from the others? Why such a strong reaction and feeling of doom now? I thought most people had come to terms with the fact that they were stalling Olicity. Honest question, I feel like I'm missing something.

I'm having the same reaction I've had for a while. That if they say they aren't thinking about writing Olicity romantically that's what they are doing. Because why would they say the opposite of what they plan to do risking to lose viewers or the people that create buzz online?

I think though the more they repeat it the more people start thinking they might be serious. I don't know for sure but that's my guess.

[RussianRoulette]

1 hour ago, looptab said:

Don't take this the wrong way - I'm in no way criticizing or judging anyone for feeling what they feel - but how is this latest interview any different from the others? Why such a strong reaction and feeling of doom now? I thought most people had come to terms with the fact that they were stalling Olicity. Honest question, I feel like I'm missing something.

Personally, I have become detached from the Felicity/Oliver relationship, because for me 4B was an absolute disaster in terms of storytelling. Other than the fact that how they have written the relationship was poorly done, the post-hospital scene, the BMD storyline and the subsequent lie for drama purposes, which by the way defied earth logic, it was also  clearly character assassination, and bore no resemblance to what they showed us in 4A (adult, loving, mature relationship). 

All the gloom and doom is starting to wear me down. I like gritty stories as much as the next person but Arrow has never been just that. Olicity and OTA provided the much needed heart. Which I feel is starting to seriously lack. 

Aside from that the repeated mantra of going back basics is really starting to sound like a broken record, especially if it means for characters to regress, which makes the investment in the stories and the characters wortheless and a waste of 4 years. 

Further, I hate being continuously jerked around. "The death will stick y'all". Fine, fair enough. I don't care much for Laurel but they could have just limited KC screen time and further stuck her into the background. No need for a gasp! Dramatic death! Which was done purely for shock value. So having Tina come into play for, maybe, being the next black canary or fighter or whatever is kinda a new slap in the face. 

As a poster up thread commented, it was a nice twist to have the beautiful and accomplished though 'nerdy' character get the hero for once. 

But yeah. Comics. 

Finally, I think everything is being a bit blown out of proportions (because re: Doom and gloom) and WM's declaration was poorly worded. That combined with the lack of PR, the over reliance on olicity fans to promote the show (good luck with that SOTY award next year guys!), is a bit upsetting. 

I don't think that I will continue to watch the show live. While I enjoyed the premiere, I feel like the show is going into a direction that I am not exactly interested in. Heh. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by RussianRoulette

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, DCLeague said:

Why does the show has to be written from an Olicity POV all the time and forever?

You're on a board with a bunch of Olicity shippers. Is it really so difficult to figure out why people here are interested in this aspect of the story? 

[Carrie Ann]

4 minutes ago, DCLeague said:

Why does the show has to be written from an Olicity POV all the time and forever?, they are not obligated to follow through the Olicity forever and ever. Its not above TV storytelling tradition. Its happens that a show can move from a  main ship to the other after a long time. The new relationships can be written with a different purpose that is not about stalling Olicity, not everything has to be filtered through Olicity. Its just really seems dismissive of these characters and relationships and thats before they even had a chance. Im not saying anything is definite one way or the other but anything can happen in TV Land. 

I didn't say anywhere in my post that the *show* needs to be written from an Olicity POV, nor did I say anything about the writers being obligated to do anything, or...basically any of the other things you're suggesting I said? I do think that the show could move from the main ship--they did it, from O/L to O/F and as @dtissagirl pointed out, that was a long and drawn-out process. My *opinion* is that I don't believe that is what they are trying to do here, at this stage of the show, with Oliver + Unknown Quantity as the new central romance.

[Angel12d]

Not to mention that Oliver's journey as a hero is kind of powered by the love of a woman and that woman has been Felicity since s2, in a big way. 

Actually, in most comics the hero has one big love interest. They might be with other people from time to time but they usually go back to the main one.

[dtissagirl]

11 minutes ago, DCLeague said:

Why does the show has to be written from an Olicity POV all the time and forever?

[CabotCove]

Quote

As a poster up thread commented, it was a nice twist to have the beautiful and accomplished though 'nerdy' character get the hero for once.

 Disagree its not a new "twist", I could find a couple of ships like that in TV and in comics, or any storytelling platform.  I dont see why its even a bid deal that it happens to begin with. 

Quote

You're on a board with a bunch of Olicity shippers. Is it really so difficult to figure out why people here are interested in this aspect of the story? 

I am an on Arrow board not an Olicity one. im disagreeing that the show should be written through because thats the implication I get, that has zero to do with 

Edited October 11, 2016 by DCLeague

[looptab]

Uh, where did @apinknightmare say it was an Olicity board? 

[tv echo]

I may be jumping ship this season.  I first became enthused about Arrow because of Oliver's journey, OTA and Olicity. Now Oliver has regressed, there is no OTA, and it sounds like there will be no more Olicity.

Edited October 11, 2016 by tv echo

[Cleanqueen]

I think they found Tina. David Rapaport followed her and it seems like she's following the arrow writers and some of the actors. Even liked an arrow tweet. This casting confirms she's definitely for Wild Dog. 

 

https://twitter.com/candywashington

[Chaser]

How does her casting confirm she is a love interest for Wild Dog?

[dtissagirl]

HOW does it confirm she's Wild Dog's LI?

[wonderwall]

I wouldn't say it confirm's she's Wild Dog's LI, but I do think it sort of (I guess) confirms she's not Oliver's because she's not well known enough... 

[CabotCove]

Quote

Uh, where did @APINKNIGHTMARE say it was an Olicity board? 

Omgoodness lets not get into this, lets talk about the show not user talk. So dont expect an answer from me on that front, Im here to talk about the show.

[looptab]

I'm just cackling that Wild Dog gets an LI after 11 episodes and we had to wait two seasons to get one for Felicity.

[Cleanqueen]

Based on the script some did think that they were trying to get someone for Wild Dog. Based on her physique shes pretty petite and Rick is pretty short as well. I do think they are expanding his story this season.

[wonderwall]

Just now, DCLeague said:

Omgoodness lets not get into this, lets talk about the show not user talk. So dont expect an answer from me on that front, Im here to talk about the show.

I mean... all of this could've been avoided if you didn't wonder why the USERS on this board want to see Olicity... but ok...

[Angel12d]

I don't think that confirms anything tbh. That guy casts for all DC TV shows so she might not even be for Arrow.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Angel12d

[Cleanqueen]

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

That guy casts for all DC TV shows so she might not even be for Arrow.

She follows marc, arrow writers, stephen and david..she also followed candice and grant but hasnt followed any other flash accounts so I do believe she's gonna be on Arrow.

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

I don't think that confirms anything tbh. That guy casts for all DC TV shows so she might not even be for Arrow.

I believe she only follows MG/ArrowWriters/CW_Arrow and none of the other shows. So it's most likely for Arrow :p

[Angel12d]

1 minute ago, Cleanqueen said:

She follows marc, arrow writers, stephen and david..she also followed candice and grant but hasnt followed any other flash accounts so I do believe she's gonna be on Arrow.

 

Just now, wonderwall said:

I believe she only follows MG/ArrowWriters/CW_Arrow and none of the other shows. So it's most likely for Arrow :p

Fair enough. 

[looptab]

nevermind 

Edited October 11, 2016 by looptab
Not worth it

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, DCLeague said:

I am an on Arrow board not an Olicity one. Or are you saying I shouldnt be here?

Uh...no? I wrote that this was a board with Olicity shippers. Not an Olicity shipper board. 

But your comment indicated that people here were talking like Arrow has to keep writing to Olicity, when I don't recall anyone saying such a thing? I feel like you've been around long enough to know that you're on a board with people who want them to keep writing to Olicity. Hence the POV and commentary to that end. 

[CabotCove]

Quote

 mean... all of this could've been avoided if you didn't wonder why the USERS on this board want to see Olicity... but ok...

I never said that.  I dont wonder about that. I dont care about that. Im talking about Olicity POV in the context of the show writing/writers. I hope thats clear.

 

Quote

https://twitter.com/candywashington

I see no where that says she been cast, link pliz?

Edited October 11, 2016 by DCLeague

[Carrie Ann]

Sucks to feel like people are putting words in your mouth, right?

Anyway, I don't know about Wild Dog, but I will say that if this girl is "Tina," then I doubt she is intended to be a major character, given her relative lack of experience.

[Cleanqueen]

11 minutes ago, DCLeague said:

 

I see no where that says she been cast, link?

It won't be announced until closer to the episode she stars in. That script was for 5X11.

[Chaser]

I think her casting as "Tina" is a pretty good guess what with the timing and follows.

I don't know if she was casted as a love interest for Oliver but if she was I wonder if she still is. Last night was quite the response.

[CabotCove]

Quote

It won't be announced until closer to the episode she stars in. That script was for 5X11.

OK. I found this

So you might be onto something there.

[Cleanqueen]

5 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I think her casting as "Tina" is a pretty good guess what with the timing and follows.

I don't know if she was casted as a love interest for Oliver but if she was I wonder if she still is. Last night was quite the response.

Shallow as it may seem I think she's too short for Stephen. If she was much taller, maybe someone could still speculate that she was for Oliver but right now I am leaning more towards Wild Dog. I think Wild Dog is the only new recruit that everyone seems too interested in so they might give him more air time than the others.

[calliope1975]

1 hour ago, DCLeague said:

Why does the show has to be written from an Olicity POV all the time and forever?, they are not obligated to follow through the Olicity forever and ever. Its not above TV storytelling traditions. Its happens that a show can move from a  main ship to the other after a long time, it can happen. The new relationships can be written with a different or personal purpose that is not about stalling Olicity, not everything has to be filtered through Olicity. Its just really seems dismissive of these characters and relationships and thats before they even have a chance. Im not saying anything is definite one way or the other but anything can happen in TV Land. 

Change is what brought Olicity, change is also an equal opportunity thing. 

For me, the rest of the show isn't that good, so I cling to the parts that I like. The stunts look to be getting better, but it was two years of crap stunt work. The flashbacks haven't been interesting to me since S2. Oliver's journey to being a hero takes 47 steps back for every one step forward. The show has repeatedly doubled down on terribad storytelling tropes and written away from the natural chemistry of the cast. So, yeah, I enjoy Olicity. After S3's awfulness, it kept me hanging in there. S4 started off well, then went off the rails. I need something to root for, and it looks like that might be taken away. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

23 minutes ago, DCLeague said:

I never said that.  I dont wonder about that. I dont care about that. Im talking about Olicity POV in the context of the show writing/writers. I hope thats clear.

 

I see no where that says she been cast, link pliz?

I think it's because they presented Olicity as the show's main couple. They had her be Oliver's last thought before he died, the only woman he has ever told "I love you" to, the one couple with a long love scene, an engagement, a fake wedding, a "you are my always"..

I agree with you that this doesn't mean the writers can't decide to start over and give Oliver a new LI that is supposed to replace Olicity and not stall them but when in a show you present a couple as the main one, you give them a more significant journey than the others, it's normal people think it was for a reason and that sooner or later they are going back there and so the new LIs are temporary.

[apinknightmare]

I looked, but I'm having trouble finding it - anyone have the casting info for "Tina"? 

I thought she was supposed to be more of a fighter - and not saying that this person can't pull that off, I was just looking at her Twitter and website, and I can't find anything indicating she's done any kind of physical roles before. I was expecting someone more like a Caity - who had a little more physical background with the dancing and parkour and whatnot. 

Maybe she's playing someone else?

Edited October 11, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Cleanqueen]

[Edited by mod: Fan talk.]

There is literally nothing to be excited about. If we find out Antonio is directing 5x09, will this make anyone hopeful anymore. I do still have hope for 5x09 but that hope is dwindling by the second. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[Ann Mack]

I  thought 5x05 was going to be a very "Olicity focused episode" upstream in one of his comments he states it as a very "Olicity-ish scene". I'm curious if that's just verbiage he's using to try to attract their fans but not give them any more focus that usual (unless I misinterpreted Marc really needs to recall what he previously said before saying something different). I'm not watching this season until I hear something that interests me (that does not just relate to Olicity. I'm just currently not that enthused) and right now Marc words do not sound that encouraging for them (Olicity) in the front half and possibly the back half of this season. Although I'm not watching I still browse the site and specifically the reviews you post to stay informed. I'm not quitting just deferring my viewing until I read something I want to watch.

 

BTW  I am trying to delete my post from the spoiler thread. Posted to fast and in the wrong one. I apologize I haven't been on for a while. Thanks for understanding.

[NumberCruncher]

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

*I'm going to get smashed for this comment but as much as I love Olicity, I feel like it is becoming the Lauriver of S1 because of how badly they ffed it up in season 4 and made no attempts to redeem it. Had they gone without the proposal/engagement and "you are my always" business I would still think that they are just stalling and it will be ok in the end. But they went the WHOLE HOG and then took it all back which makes me think the only thing left for them to do is to burn it to the ground in season 5. It's like they have written the whole Olicity story and its over. Not sure if this makes sense! 

No smashing from me.  I said something to that same effect last week.  I refuse to actively root for them anymore if all we're going to get is a rehashing of Oliver and Laurel with him constantly lying to Felicity and having her cruelly respond...rinse and repeat.  No thanks.  I'd rather enjoy their UST in an unconsummated way as colleagues so I don't have to constantly wonder what TPTB are going to do to screw them up even more because man--these writers suck at writing relationships.

[CabotCove]

Quote

I agree with you that this doesn't mean the writers can't decide to start over and give Oliver a new LI that is supposed to replace Olicity and not stall them but when in a show you present a couple as the main one, you give them a more significant journey than the others, 

 Cool explanation? I kinda get that way of looking at things. 

I guess time will tell what these writers will do....

Edited October 11, 2016 by DCLeague

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, NumberCruncher said:

because man--these writers suck at writing relationships.

I think they're fine at writing functioning relationships for the most part - what they really suck at is writing obstacles/angst/anything that isn't the pair being happy. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

9 hours ago, Chaser said:

EBR, SA both tweeted and posted photos. DR posted a pic. Everyone is liking everyone's photos. MG jumps on tumblr for the first time in over a year. All this happened in what, an hour? It sounds to me like people got some phone calls. I would not want to be the EPs right now. WM has been doing must of the promos. I'm curious if MG is going to take over. I find all this a little bit hilarious.

Oh, OK. I just thought the posts would be more Arrow related and it just seems like they're just random pics, so I guess it's the timing more than anything? I mean, I don't exactly see those photos and tweets as good ways to distract the fans. Not when they are seething like this. Could have posted an Olicity or OTA pic (although I guess that would have been more obvious, but probably more effective). The MG Tumblr thing, though, yeah, that's telling. Dude's been avoiding that since the BMD fallout. 

[NumberCruncher]

41 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think they're fine at writing functioning relationships for the most part - what they really suck at is writing obstacles/angst/anything that isn't the pair being happy. 

Well I agree with that but to me, being able to write relationships well means being able to write both the good and the bad.  So yes, they're okay (and sometimes even great) with the happy stuff but the second the relationship calls for contention then things go off the rails in a major way.  That's why they suck at writing relationships in general...they only know how to write half of them.

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, NumberCruncher said:

Well I agree with that but to me, being able to write relationships well means being able to write both the good and the bad.  So yes, they're okay (and sometimes even great) with the happy stuff but the second the relationship calls for contention then things go off the rails in a major way.  That's why they suck at writing relationships in general...they only know how to write half of them.

I think half of the non-romantic conflict they write is kind of stupid, so to me their problem is mainly conflict, not necessarily conflict in romantic relationships, haha. But I definitely get your point. 

[RussianRoulette]

3 minutes ago, NumberCruncher said:

Well I agree with that but to me, being able to write relationships well means being able to write both the good and the bad.  So yes, they're okay (and sometimes even great) with the happy stuff but the second the relationship calls for contention then things go off the rails in a major way.  That's why they suck at writing relationships in general...they only know how to write half of them.

Yep, I very much agree with that. I also feel like they inject obstacles/road blocks/BS for the sake of it because it's the ~CW. And they are incapable of writing obstacles in an ~organic~ way (quoting MG word because Lol), for the sake of drama. They also forget that viewers are also, for the most part,  experienced consumers of TV shows and tropes so yeah their oh!gotcha! stuff is blowing back in their face. 

[dtissagirl]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

I looked, but I'm having trouble finding it - anyone have the casting info for "Tina"? 

I thought she was supposed to be more of a fighter - and not saying that this person can't pull that off, I was just looking at her Twitter and website, and I can't find anything indicating she's done any kind of physical roles before. I was expecting someone more like a Caity - who had a little more physical background with the dancing and parkour and whatnot. 

Maybe she's playing someone else?

I don't remember if the description mentioned the role being physical, but the casting sides definitely showed Tina to be the best fighter ever.

If we're going just by actors David Raparport recently followed on Twitter who followed him back, there's also this actress:

https://twitter.com/EllenHollman/

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1712005/reference

She's friends with Katrina Law, she recurred on Spartacus, and she knows kung fu. Well, jiu-jitsu, but still.
 

[Thundercatmary]

Interesting.

Well as far as other LI for both Felicity and Oliver go I can say already that I would never accept anyone else for either of them regardless of who is cast.  Knowing it's only temporary (though i'm not really sure) would only make it mildly more tolerable for me.  Honestly it just makes me feel like i'm being jerked around and just waiting for the next big "gotcha."

[way2interested]

Who even knows how that will go at this point, given the need for damage control last night. They're about to film 509 with drafts of 510- 511/512 in tow, which gives them opportunities to change things, a la 414's defenses for Oliver or Poppy's decreased importance or love interest role. Maybe Tina was a new love interest (which would make me wonder where the reporter role was supposed to go then) to be introduced 510/511 whatever, but now they would backtrack a bit until they get more dallies/reviews or ratings for the next episodes that could defend going there. For all we know, they could still do it regardless, but seeing last night from mere reactions from the Olicity fandom, I'm thinking something has got to be up with how they might proceed from here.

I'm still on the boat of thinking she's a LI for Wild Dog, because the Oliver in the sides sounded more like the characterizations for Wild Dog to me, but eh that second actress does look more for SA. 

[Starfish35]

27 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I don't remember if the description mentioned the role being physical, but the casting sides definitely showed Tina to be the best fighter ever.

If we're going just by actors David Raparport recently followed on Twitter who followed him back, there's also this actress:

https://twitter.com/EllenHollman/

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1712005/reference

She's friends with Katrina Law, she recurred on Spartacus, and she knows kung fu. Well, jiu-jitsu, but still.
 

That would be more my bet if this person really is going to be the new Black Canary.   I would think they'd learned their lesson about casting someone without the physical skills for the role.  

(Forever grumpy about it not being Sara *grumble grumble*)

Edited October 11, 2016 by Starfish35

[Cleanqueen]

43 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I don't remember if the description mentioned the role being physical, but the casting sides definitely showed Tina to be the best fighter ever.

If we're going just by actors David Raparport recently followed on Twitter who followed him back, there's also this actress:

https://twitter.com/EllenHollman/

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1712005/reference

She's friends with Katrina Law, she recurred on Spartacus, and she knows kung fu. Well, jiu-jitsu, but still.
 

Fits the bill for a new black canary, but do we really think they are casting for a new black canary. Also shes 33, I think that might be too old for the role of a new BC.

[apinknightmare]

I don't think there will ever be another Black Canary on this show. I do think it's possible there will be a puce, chartreuse or aubergine Canary though, provided Laurel LITERALLY didn't want to be the last Canary, and wasn't just telling Oliver to train a bunch of random n00bs. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Thundercatmary]

It's hard to say, any new BC for me is going to go over very bad because for me Sara is still the BC.  Her age wouldn't particularly matter to me, and since I don't think the new BC will be a new LI for Oliver I don't see her age being an issue. If they did cast a new BC and throw her at Oliver as a new LI I would find that so gross tbh, as if he has to bang every BC.