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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Belinea

Belinea

24 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

She's so super important that she's going to be in ever episode of every show and the entire Flarrowverse storyline this year wille revolve around Laurel's legacy and how that turns Black Siren into a heroine and leads to Oliver falling in love with his true soul mate

I never thought I'd meet someone who is just as excited about this as me ;-)  

Also I wonder if leather, black lipstick and of course buckles should be a standard clothing choice for everyone on the show because of the big legacy she left behind. I mean the achievements are so big that you'd have to start your honors in a small way before you can follow in someone's footsteps ;-)

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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11 minutes ago, Belinea said:

I never thought I'd meet someone who is just as excited about this as me ;-)  

Also I wonder if leather, black lipstick and of course buckles should be a standard clothing choice for everyone on the show because of the big legacy she left behind. I mean the achievements are so big that you'd have to start your honors in a small way before you can follow in someone's footsteps ;-)

Diggle is going to star wearing fishnet gloves when he goes out as Spartan. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)
6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Diggle is going to star wearing fishnet gloves when he goes out as Spartan. 

Oh shoot! I was kind of hoping he'd wear black lipstick with matching nail polish D: 

He'd also honor Laurel by giving his daughter the middle name "Laurel" :)

Edited by wonderwall
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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

Seeing Berlanti's comments and making some leaps of logic, if Felicity and Barry are dating, and if Oliver and Felicity were never engaged, is there a chance that Oliver and Felicity never dated in the Flashpoint universe?  I see the talking point being about how they have a really fulfilling friendship--no, really!--but was wondering if they even got together.  At first I started to think about how Barry and Felicity might have been dating from 208/209, but then I remembered that wouldn't have happened because Barry would not have been on the hunt for his mother's killer.

I feel like Arrow is using Flashpoint to do a slight course adjustment with Diggle, Connor, and Oliver/Felicity, and was wondering if they were going to use Flashpoint to undo the bungling of Oliver/Felicity's relationship in season 3/4.  Not that I didn't enjoy them when they were together, but I wouldn't be opposed to them wiping the one date/season of pining of seasons three followed by the 4a committed couple/4b garbage fire off the screen if it meant they could build them again. 

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tangerine95

tangerine95

I really don't think they would permanently erase Oliver and Felicity's relationship. I could see it being erased during flashpoint for a few eps but I think it would be one of the things that would be brought back to how it was after Barry fixes his mess. As great as baby mama drama never happening would be I still wouldn't want their relationship from season 3 and 4 erased or changed because of flashpoint .I would prefer they rebuild it with everything that happened staying the same. 

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quarks

quarks

(edited)

In the comics, Flashpoint changed everything. On the show, however, Oliver and Felicity had already met and were falling for each other before Barry came over, so although quite a bit should have changed on Arrow with Barry not around (LIKE EVERYONE EXCEPT FOR OLIVER, THEA AND QUENTIN SHOULD BE DEAD unless Rip Hunter and Team Legends flew in, WHICH THEY DIDN'T DO YET also Captain Boomerang should have blown most of Starling City up also unless Wally West as Kid Flash changed things Vandal Savage should have wiped out all of Central City AUUGH MY BRAIN HURTS), I think Oliver and Felicity should still have ended up together at some point, though the timing might have changed.

Edited by quarks
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

This is where I get majorly confused though because if Barry saved his mom he basically never has a reason to go to Starling City (when he was first introduced in Arrow in s2) and so would never meet OTA. Therefore, he would never save Oliver's life and Oliver should be dead...? At least, I'm assuming. IDK.

And if we go by the logic that Barry came to Starling City for another reason that didn't involve searching for incidents similar to his mother's murder, would he seriously have that much of an affect on everyone on Arrow? 

I don't really want them to erase O/F's relationship (and I really don't think they will, this is just speculating) but I have to admit I prefer the idea that Oliver kept quiet about loving Felicity and stayed her friend rather than asked her out and then pushed her away like he did in s3. It means he's probably been quietly pining for her for 2 years, what a dummy. Plus it makes sense Felicity would date someone else rather than wait around for Oliver to make a move. Why do I like this theory more now? LOL. Because even though I really loved their date in 301, I always thought it happened a season too soon. 

Edited by Guest
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

This is why I'm gonna think we're *not* gonna see alt.Arrow until we know otherwise. Flash is in alt.mode in 301, Barry "fixes" it, Arrow is Arrow, same ordinary timeline, with only some very specific pointed things different so that the "Flahspoint event" is fulfilled.

The trailer they showed at SDCC supports this, and there hasn't been any spoilers that explicitly said alt.Arrow is happening. Only slightly.different.Arrow.

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kismet

kismet

10 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Nah I truly doubt it. If they knew she'd be back they would've announced it sooner to hype it up. Instead they announced at SDCC with very little fanfare. Looking at past precedent, the shows hyped the hell out of JB/WM's new contracts and announced it pretty early on... They didn't do the same with KCs new contract whatsoever. So yeah that kind of makes me more inclined to believe that it was a last minute deal. 

They were worried about us not being able to handle the excitement. Or maybe they just got tired of all our speculation here about how/why KC was staying in Vancouver. They needed to give some confirmation - their browsing of the site had reached its capacity of fun.

 

8 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Not a regular contract. This contract was made for her to be available to them but will barely be used. Without her consent/this contract they couldnt have used a single pic of her on the show. Let alone her death scene or flashbacks. Its called being smart. None of the EPs labeled this contract as a regular. If the media just ran with it, without checking, then that is on them doing a shitty job.  Also why not put a press release like they did with other contracts across all shows.

Yeah because Willa knows what is happening on the Flash.

I wonder if this means we will be seeing less of Tommy, since CD's contract probably will expire soon. Didn't they only contract him for 5 seasons? I believe there was rumors that KC had renegotiated or maybe they just need her for more consecutive seasons or didn't want to pay out her fee every time - especially since QL & SL are still alive in the Flarrowverses. It's also probably why we never heard of his new shiny contract because they just used whatever contract was in existence. It's easier to keep TM's image out of episodes, especially since MM has basically forgot he existed and OQ has enough dead people to keep him on the right path they can rotate images if need be.

8 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Oh come on! Don't you know KC is a series regular on all 3 shows now?! She's so super important that she's going to be in ever episode of every show and the entire Flarrowverse storyline this year wille revolve around Laurel's legacy and how that turns Black Siren into a heroine and leads to Oliver falling in love with his true soul mate! ???

You have solved the FP mystery! Bonus points for using emojis :)

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kismet

kismet

9 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Oh shoot! I was kind of hoping he'd wear black lipstick with matching nail polish D: 

He'd also honor Laurel by giving his daughter the middle name "Laurel" :)

I think he's going to name his potential new FP baby "Laurel" boy or girl - don't matter.

 

19 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

This isnt Ghost Whisperer. She is dead.

I'm still hoping for some Sixth Sense inspired episode since we are having enough dead people to fill the guest spots.

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kismet

kismet

Based on DR's interview and FP affecting Dig's family permanently/needing his wife. I wonder if Dig will find out that he has a secret kid as well that he left behind in his previous tours. Or perhaps Andy had a secret kid that Dig finds out about overseas and he adopts him - which is how we get John Connor Diggle. It could also explain why Connor had some Daddy issues when we met him last season on LoT.

If FP doesn't turn Sara into a boy or a twin, I fully expect the show to go Secret Kid on Dig either his or his brothers - which present day Dig then adopts/brings into his family.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

(edited)

Do you guys remember when hiatus began and both Stephen and David were all about getting "back to basics" and David said something along the lines of the show being the best when it's just Oliver and Digg doing their thing out on the streets with Felicity being their eyes and ears? Here's a quote from David's latest interview (link is posted in Spoilers Only thread). 

Quote

Ramsey thinks the show is strongest as a "street-level crime fighting phenomenon," with Oliver, Diggle and a couple others' brawn and Felicity's brain. He's wanted the show to get back to that and it is.

So Brian Ford Sullivan can get spicy on Twitter all he wants but the narrative about the extra masks is building because of quotes like this and because the only stuff I've seen on Twitter has been praises for the newbies (gotta give it to Baby Canary, she's very good with self-promotion; she should give DR and EBR lessons). 

*I'm more bitter than my coffee this morning*

Edited by SmallScreenDiva
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kismet

kismet

(edited)

On the surface the Newbies all seem great and so much fun until the reality sets in that the show is not moving back to basics it's just pulling a bait & switch on the audience... We will be getting back to basics, it just likely won't be what we or the originals imagine. I also feel like the audience will turn on these newbies when they realize how much time & story they are sucking up. I think people are just in happy LaLa land that TPTB will give them everything they want this season. They are looking at spoilers with rose colored glasses. Or being optimistic that TPTB & writers got it together this off-season & didn't fall into their usual flawed writing/storytelling choices.

And the Newbies are all better at self-promotion & social media r/t Arrow than the main/original cast. So of course Social Media would be receptive to them. As much as I hate the newbies and don't want them on the show, I'm glad the Fandom & the cast/crew has been welcoming to them. I may hate their existence as characters, but they are still human beings and I do appreciate when people are nice & welcoming bunch to Newbies. It's not personal that I hate their characters, it's just the business of their characters drive me insane when TPTB have so many stories they could tell about the existing characters or that they never told before they killed/shipped off other beloved characters. Honestly though Arrow likes to kill so many people, that at least there is fresh blood this season so I don't have to worry about characters I actually like being eliminated like what happened in s1-3. I've got a good 2 season cushion hopefully.

Edited by kismet
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bijoux

bijoux

8 minutes ago, kismet said:

Honestly though Arrow likes to kill so many people, that at least there is fresh blood this season so I don't have to worry about characters I actually like being eliminated like what happened in s1-3. I've got a good 2 season cushion hopefully.

Yeah, I think of them as cannon fodder as well.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

The Bertinelli family coming into play in a season where they're dealing with the Bratva makes sense. Not sure if Helena returning is a lock, though. 

ETA:

Quote

Season 4 ended with the death of Damien Darhk, the destruction of the Arrow Cave, and the induction of Oliver as Mayor of Star City. According to Mericle, Season 5 picks up four and half months later. "The city is not in a great state. Oliver will still be the Mayor when we open... He will be fighting on two fronts: There is a new criminal element in town, the mob, which we haven't really explored on the show before. We dealt a little bit with the Bertinellis in Season 1, and they are going to be a huge element this season."

Are we sure the "they" she's talking about is the Bertinellis and not just a general mob-type body? 

Edited by apinknightmare
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lemotomato

lemotomato

11 minutes ago, smoaksmichaelas said:

There was an interview where WM said the Bertinelli's would be a huge element this season. So I'm assuming Helena comes back. She was in the prison that everybody & they mama escaped from right?

If you are referring to this interview, the "they" WM references is ambiguous. Could be the mob in general, could be the Bertinellis.

Quote

According to Mericle, Season 5 picks up four and half months later. "The city is not in a great state. Oliver will still be the Mayor when we open... He will be fighting on two fronts: There is a new criminal element in town, the mob, which we haven't really explored on the show before. We dealt a little bit with the Bertinellis in Season 1, and they are going to be a huge element this season."

Given that Jessica De Gouw's show Underground is filming its second season, I'm guessing her availability might be limited

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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45 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

The Bertinelli family coming into play in a season where they're dealing with the Bratva makes sense. Not sure if Helena returning is a lock, though. 

ETA:

Are we sure the "they" she's talking about is the Bertinellis and not just a general mob-type body? 

Good question.  Reading the quote it could go either way.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I've noticed that media sites sometimes edit people's quotes.  Here's my transcription of what WM actually said from listening to her SDCC press roundtable interview...

Quote

-- WM: "We're doing a regular four-month time jump, or I guess it's five... We're going to pick up right there and uh, you know, four months after Damien Darhk's been killed and the city is not in a great state. Star City is getting better under - Oliver will be the Mayor. He'll still be the Mayor when we open in 501. And he'll be kinda fighting on two fronts, so he'll do kinda the criminal element in town - the mob. We haven't really explored the mafia on the show before, and we've done a little with the Bertinellis in season 1. They're going to be a huge element when we come into this season. And also he's going to be bringing in a lot of new vigilantes who've been inspired by the Green Arrow that have been popping up all over the city, both helping and not helping." (SDCC, Jul. 23, 2016: Video of Seat42F interview with WM, page 40 of Spoilers thread)

Edited by tv echo
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Thundercatmary

Thundercatmary

(edited)

Sigh idk at this point the show is quickly losing me, i'm still just so bitter I think because I really enjoyed 4a and feel the writers really messed that up.

Like i'm sure this actress Carly is a nice person but I just want her to go away tbh lol.

Edited by Thundercatmary
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

That tweet literally means nothing other than Carly is showing her excitement for the show. 

Could it mean she's a love interest? Sure. But it could also mean that it's just a good episode.

I'm still going to wait and see. 

Edited by wonderwall
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Sunshine

Sunshine

Well, I got the impression that the reporter wasn't supposed to be a fan of Oliver's once SA said he was a garbage mayor.  "Unabashedly overnight" becomes a fanboy and since it's the first episode of sweeps my 1st thought was hook-up.  I have read too much about temporary love interests as stalls I guess.  I blame this board. LOL!

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Not sure how to phrase this without sounding offensive, but I think it's kind of gross to assume that Carly Pope's fanboy comment is related to a romantic storyline. I mean, obviously I don't know whether the reporter is a love interest or not, but...yeah. Just not comfortable assuming that being a love interest is what gets her excited about the show (although it totally could be).

I'm not really sure what to make of 5x05. I tend to think it won't be good for Oliver and Felicity, but WM saying that Olicity was left "ambiguous" and that we'll get answers in this ep - seems pretty obvious to me that their romantic relationship is over for the time being (especially if it turns out her boyfriend isn't Flashpoint related). Guess they could further clarify that by having Oliver get himself a girlfriend, but that's something I'd expect from a single guy, so...yeah. 

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way2interested

way2interested

I'm still wondering where 505 would take them considering the possibility that it would end with Oliver hooking-up/dating the reporter. Ignoring the Felicity's bf thing since I have no idea who it is or where that's even going, it could be a reverse 307, it could be that Oliver tries once more to get back together with Felicity before moving on himself, it could be that they mutually wish each other the best, or could even be Oliver agreeing to date the reporter before deciding that he can't be with anyone other than Felicity. Heck, long-shot, but it could just be him having a scene with the reporter that makes him think about something concerning Felicity/the main plot/505's plot/legacy/etc. 

I don't know, but I would feel weird as well if her comment is just referring to a temporary romantic thing for her character unless it was presented in a very well and not-cliched way like 307 was.

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Thundercatmary

Thundercatmary

I mean I'm not sure what 5x5 could really be about, Olicity is already broken up, unless the writers just want to twist the knife a bit with the Olicity angst. I mean at a certain point it won't be fun to watch anymore, at least for me.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I wouldn't be surprised if 5x05 is some kind of reaffirmation that they're broken up (and a rehash about why) or something. It would make the weird comment about writing to their chemistry (or whatever WM said about letting the characters tell them where to go wishy washy will they/won't they commentary) make a little more sense - preparing people for a "they won't" for the time being. I just think it's weird to sell an episode as one where we'll get answers to a question we already have an answer for: they aren't a couple anymore. 

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way2interested

way2interested

Just now, apinknightmare said:

 I just think it's weird to sell an episode as one where we'll get answers to a question we already have an answer for: they aren't a couple anymore. 

Same. And, if this is indeed the case, why it's good enough to tweet about fanboying about it. Execution possibly might be good in this case, but that's a lot to ask for for Arrow.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

I've decided that since OliCity is clearly the new OTP of the show, then Oliver/Carly Pope can't be a relationship thing.  They might have a random hook up ala Oliver/Isabel but, it's going to be OliCity in 5A and Olicity in 5B.

As for why Carly Pope is fangirling (why would she use fanboy anyway?) Over 505, I'm guessing some big action scene or dramatic confrontation

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

As for Carly Pop in fangirling (why would ahe use fanboy anyway?) Over 505, I'm guessing some big action scene or dramatic confrontationbi

I was going to guess the same. Maybe there's a cool stunt in a scene she's involved in or something. I just kinda doubt that a working actress would be all that excited about any kind of date/flirty scene when she's probably done many of those in her career. (Not that that means that kind of scene won't happen in that ep or another; I just doubt that Carly Pope would care that much.)

However, I also don't think 505 is going to be a "good" O/F episode. I feel like if we get any kind of "answer" about them, then maybe it'll be learning something about Felicity's feelings, but something will still prevent them from getting together at that point. 

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