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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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calliope1975

calliope1975

Am I finally getting some concrete hope for Olicity??

I figure they'll eventually reunite, but I'm tired of the party line of - oh, they're adults about their relationship, they've moved on, they might not have chemistry anymore. (I'll never get over that last one, WM, I will remember. /glares)

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wonderwall

wonderwall

2 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Am I finally getting some concrete hope for Olicity??

I figure they'll eventually reunite, but I'm tired of the party line of - oh, they're adults about their relationship, they've moved on, they might not have chemistry anymore. (I'll never get over that last one, WM, I will remember. /glares)

The irony is, is that the person that isn't the most gung ho about Olicity is the person that's giving us the most hope :') God bless Emily and her wonderful timing.

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Password

Password

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

The irony is, is that the person that isn't the most gung ho about Olicity is the person that's giving us the most hope :') God bless Emily and her wonderful timing.

I agree. Emily gives the most hope about Olicity out of everyone. 

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HighHopes

HighHopes

I saw some of their tweets earlier, and I have a feeling they are trolling. They tweeted some stuff about SDCC and Amell's marriage that plays into the "it's over and Amell and one of his co-stars have a thing" thing. (Their tweets seemed to be similar to the "blind items" the dude who runs Crazy Days and Nights posts--- which even says on the site that they are fiction, rumours, and products of the author's imagination). 

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kismet

kismet

Veritas is in their name - so who knows? :)

The info seems like a lot of what we have discussed here, so not sure if reliable but seems like they are just piecing together logical speculation with known likelihoods. We know KC is on at least 1 episode per MG, would make sense that there might be another episode. And the image portion was mentioned almost in the same breath as the deal. It just rehashing what has already been discussed.

The only exciting new piece of info is that multiple versions of her last words were filmed. That would be good for me, since I hope we don't get her doing the "you can't do it alone" - that's a worn out record and frankly I don't need to hear it from KC's mouth.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

23 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

They seem to have made their account private right after you posted, so, who knows.

The gist of it was that KC's deal is on an as-needed basis and primarily so that the show would have rights to use her image. 

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bijoux

bijoux

10 minutes ago, kismet said:

The info seems like a lot of what we have discussed here, so not sure if reliable but seems like they are just piecing together logical speculation with known likelihoods. 

That's one of the reasons I wasn't sure if it was anything more than reaching a logical confusion. The person had a low number of followers and people that they follow. On the other hand, people were replying to them and retweeting these things, which is how I came across them in the first place.

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bijoux

bijoux

Why July? The tweets were posted on August 2 and 3? I will be shocked if he shows back up on Arrow. So if it was for filming, I imagine it was for something else. However, if they have a Lyla flashback or something where it would make sense for Deathshot to appear, I'm all for it.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
14 hours ago, wonderwall said:

I like how Emily ties in the state of the bunker to Felicity's relationship with Oliver

Here's the full context of that EBR quote (transcribed from video of Showbiz Junkies interview with EBR, posted on page 41 of Spoilers thread):
-- On what the Olicity relationship will start off like in S5, EBR: "I do believe their communication is getting better, um, and I think that has a lot to do with them being in a new type of relationship, you know, past the breakup and having to work together and having a common goal and, you know, trying to decide things and trying to improve, you know, the city, and not only that, but themselves and their relationship. So, it's interesting like how we left off with the Bunker being destroyed and then both just standing strong in a place where they had inevitably destroyed themselves and how their relationship had also kinda been destroyed and broken, and now they had to [unintelligible word] themselves, everyone's still standing strong, I think, was a really good example about where they're going to go, because they end up staying in it and they clean it up and they start, you know, moving around each other obviously in a different way. But, um, their dance will be a little different, but I think it's growing."

2 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

So apparently  Michael Rowe was spotted in Vancouver in July.

At Arc Con on June 25, 2016 (video posted on page 428 of Social Media thread), Michael Rowe said: "I think that, in the comic book, [Deadshot] is the hardest person to kill. So I would say, with confidence, that you have not seen the last of him." He then mentioned that Earth-2 Floyd also got killed. 

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Regarding what GG said in his IMDb interview, here's my guesses as to some of the permanent effects of Flashpoint...

-- Supergirl and Superman have always been in the Flarrowverse, so no one is surprised by their existence.
-- Barry did not grow up in the West household, so there's no "incestuous" vibe to his relationship with Iris.
-- Oliver & Felicity never lived together in Ivy Town and never got engaged.
-- Diggle & Lyla have twins, Sara and John Jr. ("Connor Hawke").

Edited by tv echo
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Belinea

Belinea

(edited)
1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Regarding what GG said in his IMDb interview, here's my guesses as to some of the permanent effects of Flashpoint...

-- Supergirl and Superman have always been in the Flarrowverse, so no one is surprised by their existence.
-- Barry did not grow up in the West household, so there's no "incestuous" vibe to his relationship with Iris.
-- Oliver & Felicity never lived together in Ivy Town and never got engaged.
-- Diggle & Lyla have twins, Sara and John Jr. ("Connor Hawke").

So, based on that, the interpersonal relationships that have been established and used as an emotional storyline are just being erased without much explanation. Wonderful... So the last 1-2 seasons you wouldn't have needed to watch most of it then. And at what point will that effect be seen. It would have to be as soon as beginning of season 3. So Felicity shouldn't have been with Ray either? Now that is great storytelling. So, just for the record because I don't watch the Flash. Is Barry then still supposed to be in love with Iris? If he is indeed (as some speculated) Felicity's boyfriend, will we be blessed with crossover love triangle? 

Also, does it mean that once the timeline goes back (because I believe that ultimately that is the point right; For him to see that the grass isn't always greener on the other side) all the stories the other shows got (mainly Arrow) will have been for nothing?

Edited by Belinea
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I want to emphasize that those are just guesses on my part. It could be that the permanent effects are only on Flash. Really, I can't see anything good about having Flashpoint affect Arrow in any permanent way.

Edited by tv echo
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Belinea

Belinea

1 minute ago, tv echo said:

I want to emphasize that those are just guesses on my part.

The fact that your guesses could be plausible though is the most annoying part of the whole speculation. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I'm still hoping they only ADD new stuff, and do not erase parts of past narrative. Adding stuff = moves the story forward. So imo it's fine if Supergirl and Superman have always existed, because that doesn't change story backwards. Same with giving Sara an instant twin brother [exchanging Sara for Connor would be problematic as fuck, however].

But if they erase parts of O/F's relationship -- if they erase parts of ANY relationship on Arrow, really -- they then have to WRITE that into the show. There's need for dialogue and character moments, and maybe even alternate flashbacks to this alternate past, that indicate exactly what changed to the audience. Which, let's be honest, it would 100% make the show messy as hell.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

One might also wonder how Barry going back in time to save his mother could possibly lead to Supergirl/Superman being in the same universe as Green Arrow, Flash and the Legends. Maybe such a significant change in history created a temporal paradox or time crash or other timey-wimey stuff that shifted or combined the two earths/universes?

And if they were always in the same universe, then the question has to be asked: when Star City and the rest of the world were facing the threat of nuke strikes, why didn't Team Arrow or ARGUS contact Superman and Supergirl?

However, if the 4-show crossover event is only a visit by Supergirl to the Flarrowverse, then next year, they would have to come up with another excuse/device for the multi-universe, cross-universe visit. And there would be no mini-crossovers with Supergirl.

Edited by tv echo
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kismet

kismet

Considering the dynamics of these writers rooms and TPTB the only permanent ramifications will be on every other show in the flarrowverse except Flash which will get to live the perfect life of a golden child.

I don't believe the Flash will bother to give BA any personal consequences or permanent ramifications for his actions. Except for people to acknowledge how cool & brave he was to change the universe and save his Mom. It will all be good for BA and variable degress of good/bad for the  rest of the universe.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

From what I read it looks like the only permanent effects of Flashpoint are on Arrow. I haven't heard anything about it affecting Supergirl. Besides maybe bringing that Earth into the Flarrowverse but it doesn't appear to be changing any storylines on that show.  And they've said it won't really effect LoT (until the crossover with Arrow). Flash will probably mostly correct itself so Barry can be celebrated as the greatest hero that ever lived (that spends all his time cleaning up the problems he created). Arrow is the only show they are talking about changes being made. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

I find it really interesting that none of the cast/crew ever tweeted anything after Laurel's death with regards to Katie... 

I find it even more interesting that none of the cast/crew ever tweeted anything with regards to Katie coming back.

So either the crew really doesn't like her, or she's not going to be in any of the shows very much.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Just now, looptab said:

Or they knew she'd be back - in what capacity is besides the point - and that's why they didn't say a word on it? Could be anything :D

Nah I truly doubt it. If they knew she'd be back they would've announced it sooner to hype it up. Instead they announced at SDCC with very little fanfare. Looking at past precedent, the shows hyped the hell out of JB/WM's new contracts and announced it pretty early on... They didn't do the same with KCs new contract whatsoever. So yeah that kind of makes me more inclined to believe that it was a last minute deal. 

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looptab

looptab

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Nah I truly doubt it. If they knew she'd be back they would've announced it sooner to hype it up. Instead they announced at SDCC with very little fanfare. Looking at past precedent, the shows hyped the hell out of JB/WM's new contracts and announced it pretty early on... They didn't do the same with KCs new contract whatsoever. So yeah that kind of makes me more inclined to believe that it was a last minute deal. 

True, I hadn't considered that. Then either of your options is more likely. :)

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spartan

spartan

I sincerely believe that if they wanted more katie, they could not have this new contract, so why be reguilère within three shows ?? they would just have said that she will be in two or three episodes,
I think willa said in an interview that   katie wil be much in the  flash in the next year and they will still be.

may be in the second part of arrow or flash, katie would be   present, a lot

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Velocity23

Velocity23

Quote

I sincerely believe that if they wanted more katie, they could not have this new contract, so why be reguilère within three shows ?? they would just have said that she will be in two or three episodes,
I think willa said in an interview that   katie wil be much in the  flash in the next year and they will still be.

may be in the second part of arrow or flash, katie would be   present, a lot

Not a regular contract. This contract was made for her to be available to them but will barely be used. Without her consent/this contract they couldnt have used a single pic of her on the show. Let alone her death scene or flashbacks. Its called being smart. None of the EPs labeled this contract as a regular. If the media just ran with it, without checking, then that is on them doing a shitty job.  Also why not put a press release like they did with other contracts across all shows.

Yeah because Willa knows what is happening on the Flash.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)
40 minutes ago, spartan said:

I sincerely believe that if they wanted more katie, they could not have this new contract, so why be reguilère within three shows ?? they would just have said that she will be in two or three episodes,
I think willa said in an interview that   katie wil be much in the  flash in the next year and they will still be.

may be in the second part of arrow or flash, katie would be   present, a lot

I think you need to understand what 'regular' means first. An example, John Barrowman was a regular for Arrow in season 4, but he only had about 1 hour of screentime. That's 1/16th of the total season. 

Being a regular means that the actors have to be available for the shows they're regulars in whenever the shows need them. As Donna Meagle would say, it's a way for the network to "Use them, abuse them, lose them". Bringing Katie back helps the network in the sense that it's a cheaper option for them to have this contract than to pay her each time she guest stars. 

The reason why we don't have a set number of episodes for Katie is because they have nothing planned for her, which should really be the first indicator that she won't be around that much. 

Edited by wonderwall
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Belinea

Belinea

2 hours ago, wonderwall said:

They didn't do the same with KCs new contract whatsoever

It was a low-key announcement in my opinion and it seemed almost like an afterthought. If they wanted to announce that in a bigger way,  I believe that they would have brought her out at SDCC. JB was there and front and center. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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1 minute ago, Belinea said:

It was a low-key announcement in my opinion and it seemed almost like an afterthought. If they wanted to announce that in a bigger way,  I believe that they would have brought her out at SDCC. JB was there and front and center. 

Oh come on! Don't you know KC is a series regular on all 3 shows now?! She's so super important that she's going to be in ever episode of every show and the entire Flarrowverse storyline this year wille revolve around Laurel's legacy and how that turns Black Siren into a heroine and leads to Oliver falling in love with his true soul mate! ???

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Velocity23

Velocity23

Wasnt Barrowman also at the LOT panel? The people announced seem to have a specific role they will play throughout the 3 shows. Nothing like that was announced for KC. It was only FB, BC on Flash and different timeline on LOT. Those sound like glorified guest appearances

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wonderwall

wonderwall

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

Wasnt Barrowman also at the LOT panel? The people announced seem to have a specific role they will play throughout the 3 shows. Nothing like that was announced for KC. It was only FB, BC on Flash and different timeline on LOT. Those sound like glorified guest appearances

BS on Flash*

...which sounds pretty apt :p

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)
Quote

Wasnt Barrowman also at the LOT panel? The people announced seem to have a specific role they will play throughout the 3 shows. Nothing like that was announced for KC. It was only FB, BC on Flash and different timeline on LOT. Those sound like glorified guest appearances

Yes, JB was brought out as a surprise guest for the LoT panel.

JB and WMs contracts were both issued Press Releases by The CW and SDCC made a big announcement of how Cold, Merlyn, Darhk and Reverse Flash will be the Legion of Doom across all 3 shows....hmm what's missing??

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Guest

Guest

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 and how that turns Black Siren into a heroine and leads to Oliver falling in love with his true soul mate! ???

I just threw up in my mouth.

Also, that can't possibly happen. The because comics won't let it because that doesn't happen in the comics! It has to be comic canon. It HAS to!

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

I just threw up in my mouth.

Also, that can't possibly happen. The because comics won't let it because that doesn't happen in the comics! It has to be comic canon. It HAS to!

BUT her name is Dinah Laurel Lance!! That's all that matter!! and she's wearing black!!!

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