Guest July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, smoaksmichaelas said: Can somebody help me out. The big bad is the Tobias Church guy right? Or is it the ADA guy? It's supposedly Tobias Church but I think they're gonna do a swerve and have it be someone else - the 'dark mirror' to Oliver. Or what @apinknightmare said. Sorry, didn't see the updated page! Edited July 20, 2016 by Guest Link to comment
quarks July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 36 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said: Regarding the "ambiguous" comment, I was worried the ambiguity was going to keep going into season five. IF Arrow follows its usual pattern - and that's a huge huge IF - I'm expecting the ambiguity to last at least four episodes (November sweeps) or nine episodes (winter finale). And honestly, if I were writing this, with the crossovers coming up, that's exactly what I'd do - keep things ambiguous, with one or two longing glances here and there, or even better, just returning them to friendly banter, get fans thinking oh no, it's never going to happen - and then in episode 508 I'd drop a hopeful flirtatious note in there to get what will presumably be the highest number of viewers all season to tune in the following week just to see what happens with this crazy couple. Cue grand romantic gesture for the Xmas episode, and both of them wondering if they should - if they could - try things again. Maybe in May? 8 Link to comment
calliope1975 July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 I can't remember - did KC know what Laurel said to Oliver? Not that it matters much, but if her last few words were about Oliver being the love of her life, propping Olicity, and giving the Black Canary mantle back to Sara? Damn, what a way to treat that character. That's way harsh, Tai. On one hand, I'm glad we're finishing up this nonsense in the premiere. On the other hand, it'll probably be something like, "Don't you think I deserve a statue, Ollie?" 6 Link to comment
TrueMyth July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 1 hour ago, kismet said: The only reason I would be upset if LL's last words were tell SL she can be the BC is because she didn't know it was going to be her last words. Also SL is off traveling in time, so why would LL tell OQ to tell SL? It makes no sense, but little about LL did, so I guess its par for the course. Yes, she didn't know she was dying, but she did know that her identity had been blown when she came into the E.R. as BC. So maybe? Nah, it really doesn't make much sense. Maybe it was the brush with death that gave her a sense of her mortality, so, even though she thought she'd live, she said something like, "This has made me think. Oliver, if I do die in the future, say jumping off a building assuming that you'll catch me or through a window assuming that there is a helicopter with a ladder conveniently nearby... Please tell the world that I loved puppies, and let Sara have her jacket back." I hope someone asks TPTB at ComiCon, "Will Laurel's last words make sense in the context that she didn't know she was going to die?" 10 Link to comment
kismet July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 "Don't Worry Ollie - in case of my death, I have left instructions on my Facebook for how to honor my legacy.... and I already put a deposit on a statue of my likeness at Statues 'R Us... it's OK Ollie, I'm never going to die - I match my lipstick and nail polish! Also a little pretty birdie told me 'Because Comics', but I have no idea what that means..." I wonder if the team will get matching buckles to add to their costumes out of legacy/honor... 9 Link to comment
dtissagirl July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 5 minutes ago, TrueMyth said: I hope someone asks TPTB at ComiCon, "Will Laurel's last words make sense in the context that she didn't know she was going to die?" I'm scared of that answer from one of the EPs being "what are you talking about? SHE WAS ON HER DEATHBED SAYING DEATHBED THINGS THAT MADE TOTAL SENSE BECAUSE SHE DIED RIGHT AFTER." Caps included. 3 Link to comment
looptab July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 I don't know and don't care that much right now about potential new BC, but..Wendy, the only thing that would make people vehemently against her death 'understand' would be bringing her back to life..and not even that, because what would be the point then? Haha. 1 Link to comment
TimetravellingBW July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 2 hours ago, Chaser said: For me it's like.... What was the point? It would really make me believe the past two seasons were about fulfilling KCs contract. It would also make me think that they want Sara Lance to be remembered as the Flarrowverse Black Canary. I'd love for Sara to take up the BC mantle - she's already ended up taking on the BC role anyway what with being a world class martial arts fighter, bisexual, battle couple with Oliver, mentoring Sin and going off with a different team rather than being Spare Muscle #4 as Laurel was to Team Arrow. And yeah making Sara the BC would basically confirm they only made LL the BC because of contract reasons and preferred Sara all along. (Which would explain so much about Sara's abrupt death and LL's terrible, rushed arc. I do wonder if there were serious efforts and discussions at the end of S2/break before S3 to get rid of LL but they failed because of contracts/money and so killed Sara instead. Maybe Laurel would have been the shock death/murder mystery at the start of S3 if they'd had a choice). I also expect to be endlessly amused at KC's reaction and if she'll become aware that the writers clearly haven't wanted LL around for years. 8 Link to comment
Starfish35 July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 Sara (possibly) getting to be BC is the first news that's seriously cheered me up about any of the four shows. I've been pretty much in a state of total apathy since the season ended, with a couple of moments of outright dismay (the Artemis news and Malcolm as Flarrowverse regular news). Sara becoming BC actually for real finally.....that would make up for a lot where I'm concerned. So I hope I'm not misreading this. 3 Link to comment
kismet July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 So have we seriously considered the possibility of FS as the new BC if only for a few episodes? She was the last one to hold the baton of power... It would be ostentatious enough that I could see the writers doing it just because. What better way for FS to honor her bestie's legacy than to pick up her mask? And if she does not excel then that could explain why they bring in the newbies and FS refocuses behind the computers. I know MG promised that FS would never become a masked hero, but this would be a special exception and be cleared under the Legacy Loophole. Honor LL - check. Have onscreen GA/BC romantic relationship with actual chemistry - check. Have valid reason to keep BC out of the field - check. The writers might be feeling a little ballsy in their 5th season. It would be enrage so many different factions of the audience. And the writers are always trying to enrage no sorry engage their audience. But in the end, it would service their story and cause some major buzz. Especially if it shows FS choosing to be the brains and not the brawn. I think its a possibility. Link to comment
TimetravellingBW July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 (edited) Oh god please don't let Felicity become the BC. Not only would it enrage the fanbase and anti-Felicity feeling even more, but I actually really like that a clear weakness/limitation of Felicity is she's not a fighter and not strong physically. Her being able to wack things with whatever object is close by in self-defence is feasible. Her becoming BC is not. It wasn't believable when Laurel suited up and would be even less so with Felicity. Felicity has a lot of strengths and skills: She's a tech genius, she's a world class hacker, she's the heart of the team and emotional compass, she's figuring out being a CEO. She doesn't need fighting skills or a mask to be strong. Hopefully the passing the baton thing was just symbolic of Felicity taking Laurel's place as lead female and Oliver's true love. Edited July 20, 2016 by TimetravellingBW 4 Link to comment
Guest July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 Haha. Sorry but there's just no way Felicity will become BC. Come on. Link to comment
bijoux July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 Frankly, the only last words that would make sense for Laurel would be, Holy crap, I can't believe I just said that. Just pull the plug, Oliver, I'm too embarassed to look anybody in the eyes. But hey, at least he and Felicity now have a matching pair of unwanted awkward declarations of love from loopy hospital bed ridden people. 21 Link to comment
looptab July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 Oliver was going to get her some jello when she started convulsing, haha. 11 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 July 20, 2016 Author Share July 20, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, calliope1975 said: I can't remember - did KC know what Laurel said to Oliver? Not that it matters much, but if her last few words were about Oliver being the love of her life, propping Olicity, and giving the Black Canary mantle back to Sara? Damn, what a way to treat that character. That's way harsh, Tai. On one hand, I'm glad we're finishing up this nonsense in the premiere. On the other hand, it'll probably be something like, "Don't you think I deserve a statue, Ollie?" SA said he didn't know. I'm guessing it was never written or filmed. Wow, must have been tired last night because the whole BC implication went right over my head. I know CL was dropping hints at a Con pre-S4 finale that she hoped Sarah would get a new/darker color uniform. It's possible that Sara is BC again (but she has to have her original outfit...it was perfect, IMO). Also, i would prefer it, if they make Sara going back to BC a season (mostly season) long journey. I think that would be a good character arc for her, might even tune in for that. Edited July 20, 2016 by Morrigan2575 1 Link to comment
bijoux July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 Didn't he say he DID know, but the audience would have to wait until season 5 to find out? Link to comment
looptab July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 I seem to remember he said he knew but couldn't tell, while KC said fans she didn't know, while EBR and WH said it was filmed but never shown. I believe this was at the con in Paris. Link to comment
Morrigan2575 July 20, 2016 Author Share July 20, 2016 Ah, OK. Interesting i though it was never filmed and held until S5. Link to comment
bijoux July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 so there is some SWAT action in the first two episodes. Makes sense to introduce a new cop character. Two things of note. One, PB was driving to the set with WH yesterday and she was wearing that same top. I assume Lance can't stay away even if he isn't on the force at the moment. Two, I don't know whether that's a skirt or shorts on WH, but regardless it seems really, really short for the mayor's office. You know for whom it would be a totally appropriate business outfit? A night club manager. Stupid other shows taking over sets. :/ Link to comment
Sakura12 July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 (edited) I think it makes sense for Sara to take her name back, they can spin it as it now means hope or something because of LL. I also think on LoT they have been grooming Sara for leadership. She was Rip's second in command and took charge when he wasn't there. Plus she can pilot the Waverider. I can see her becoming a founding member of the Justice Society of America. If that's what happens, I wonder what KC will think of that since she's supposedly living with CL. Edited July 20, 2016 by Sakura12 2 Link to comment
bijoux July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 Wasn't it The Flash and their coffee shop? In which Iris doesn't even work anymore, so please give it back. Thank you. 3 Link to comment
looptab July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 I thought that was the Big Belly Burger set, but I don't know for sure. The expert on the matter is @quarks :) Link to comment
quarks July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 Now, now, let's not be too harsh on Flash. Or rather, let's be harsh on Flash, but not regarding the Jitters set - that was a brand new set with two trick moving walls and one trick window wall, similar to the QC/PT set. I would like it quite a lot if it would stop making occasional appearances on Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow, but I am perhaps being too picky. The Jitters set didn't take over the Verdant set - those two sets were standing sets throughout most of Arrow season three and Flash season one. I'm not entirely sure what happened to the Verdant set although the props have been popping up into multiple scenes, which is nice and efficient. Given its comparatively large size, my guess is that it was written out to allow the shows to fit two smaller standing or temporary sets into that soundstage area. Or somebody was sad that the Verdant set didn't have any trick windows for vigilantes to leap through. Possibly the Star City window repair lobbying group, wanting to make sure that they can keep the city's one successful business going. 2 Link to comment
Chaser July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 In DRs Twitter spree, he mentioned watching his kid. So is he still in LA? I'm wondering if he actually will be missing the first couple episodes. The idea of Oliver going out looking for a new Team is weird to me. I'm interested in how they sell that. Granted it will probably be related to Laurels last words which will lead to an epic eye roll. 3 Link to comment
AyChihuahua July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 9 hours ago, dtissagirl said: I'm scared of that answer from one of the EPs being "what are you talking about? SHE WAS ON HER DEATHBED SAYING DEATHBED THINGS THAT MADE TOTAL SENSE BECAUSE SHE DIED RIGHT AFTER." Caps included. I've mostly blocked those (absolutely terrible) episodes from my mind, but hadn't she decided to quit being Black Canary? So it could make sense in the context that she'd chosen to give it up. Link to comment
Starfish35 July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 She'd decided to quit earlier, but then in that scene where they're all gathered around her bed telling her how much they love her, she tells them she'd decided not to quit after all. 1 Link to comment
Chaser July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 She went out "one last time" but then decided in the hospital that she loved it too much. Link to comment
AyChihuahua July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 That's what I get for blocking episodes from my mind. So with the several Oliver/Thea pics we've seen, I'm revising my prediction of S5 being the Oliver + newbies hour. I now think it will be the Oliver + hisonetrueloveThea + newbies hour. Which I would hate even more. The only Thea I ever liked was early S4 Speedy Thea, and early S2 Hypercompetent-Club-Manager Thea. My least-favorite Thea, even over Wishy-Washy-Daughter-of-a-Mass-Murderer-Who-Thinks-It's-a-Great-Idea-to-Swan-Off-with-Said-Mass-Murderer-Bc-Of-a-Hissy-Fit Thea, is My-Older-Brother-is-Obsessed-with-Me-Also-I'm-Dumb-as-a-Doorknob Thea. It makes me very uncomfortable and I need it to stop. Let her get a job/have a life outside of him. 2 Link to comment
Chaser July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 I'm curious about a Thea without Malcolm. That's the biggest positive going into S5 Thea for me. It would have been nice to see Thea do her own things, but I'm warming up to seeing the Queen Teamup. It sets up a Queen legacy that Moira started when she ran for Mayor. Everything right now is just making me more and more curious about what Felicity and Diggle are doing and how they get involved again. The implication from the finale was that Felicity and Oliver were staying in SC together so I figured they are working together in some way but we have no hint as to what way. 5 Link to comment
looptab July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Chaser said: She went out "one last time" but then decided in the hospital that she loved it too much. That sounds like the perfect moment for a love declaration. "Hey, I never ever want to leave, so let's make things awkward for everybody from now on!" I can't imagine Oliver looking for new members. Consider how this will hurt poor Roy's feelings. He only got in after the Mirakuru, while everybody else got free access. :( Edited July 20, 2016 by looptab 2 Link to comment
Chaser July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 This conversation is just reminding me how dumb 4x18 was. 7 Link to comment
Starfish35 July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 17 minutes ago, Chaser said: This conversation is just reminding me how dumb 4x18 was. It was extremely dumb. And then 4x19 came along, and it got worse. :( 8 Link to comment
Guest July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 (edited) I hope we get some good spoilers about Felicity and Diggle soon because right now it's like they don't exist. Thank god for DR yesterday. Praise! Haha. :) Edited July 20, 2016 by Guest Link to comment
AyChihuahua July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 23 minutes ago, Angel12d said: I hope we get some good spoilers about Felicity and Diggle soon because right now it's like they don't exist. Who? 3 Link to comment
tv echo July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 (edited) I bought TV Guide's Comic-Con Special issue and scanned the Arrow and LoT pages. I posted my Arrow scans in the Spoilers thread and Starling City Times thread, and my LoT scans in the Mind Your Surroundings thread (note that MG ambiguously denies that Laurel/BC will appear in LoT as a JSA member). If anyone cannot read any significant portions of the spoilers contained in those scans, just let me know and I'll post a transcription. Edited July 20, 2016 by tv echo 4 Link to comment
tv echo July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 (edited) ^^^ In response to the question of whether KC could show up as Black Canary on LOT (since Black Canary is a JSA member in the comics), MG said with a laugh: "No, that conflicts with other plans we have...he said, intentionally misleading and hopefully teasing." Although I read MG's quote to mean that Laurel/BC is dead-dead, some media articles (example) are interpreting his response to mean that there are plans to bring her back on Arrow - which is why she won't show up on LoT as BC. Edited July 20, 2016 by tv echo Link to comment
Starfish35 July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 Interesting. I interpreted it as meaning, in the light of WM's evasive answer about another person becoming Black Canary, that they have plans to make someone else (meaning Sara) Black Canary. Besides, bringing Laurel back in Arrow wouldn't keep her from popping up on LoT if they wanted her too. I'm wondering, if Sara really is becoming Black Canary, if they'll announce that this weekend, or if they'll save it for the season premiere. Announcing it this weekend would allow them to run promotional stuff for LoT with her in the new costume. 2 Link to comment
tv echo July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 One writer's response to WM's ambiguous comments to TV Guide about Olicity (they "were the only two people left in the bunker, which we felt was symbolic... We deliberately left it ambiguous.")... Oliver & Felicity's Relationship On 'Arrow' Might Be Uncertain, But That Could Be A Good Thing CAITLYN CALLEGARI July 20, 2016http://www.bustle.com/articles/173802-oliver-felicitys-relationship-on-arrow-might-be-uncertain-but-that-could-be-a-good-thing 2 Link to comment
AyChihuahua July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 (edited) 45 minutes ago, tv echo said: One writer's response to WM's ambiguous comments to TV Guide about Olicity (they "were the only two people left in the bunker, which we felt was symbolic... We deliberately left it ambiguous.")... Oliver & Felicity's Relationship On 'Arrow' Might Be Uncertain, But That Could Be A Good Thing CAITLYN CALLEGARI July 20, 2016http://www.bustle.com/articles/173802-oliver-felicitys-relationship-on-arrow-might-be-uncertain-but-that-could-be-a-good-thing The actual article is far less "that could be a good thing" about Olicity ambiguity than the title indicates. So if DR just arrived in Vancouver (see the tweet), and they've already cut the sizzle reel (other tweet re the sizzle being just super great, i.e., already made), does that mean no Digg in the sizzle, or at least only old footage? Edited July 20, 2016 by AyChihuahua Link to comment
Belinea July 20, 2016 Share July 20, 2016 Well, I am happy that Diggle will have scruff but unhappy that his relationship with Lyla will probably be messed with. Does everyone have to have relationship problems? I have to say I am dreading what we will get this weekend. I fear it will be more "new team", "LL legacy", "BBC", "Felicity moved on", "Oliver/Felicity are just awesome BFFs now"... and so on and so forth. I'd be surprised if there is anything positive coming our way. At the moment, I feel like it won't happen. The only thing I am mildly excited about is Russia. 1 hour ago, AyChihuahua said: So if DR just arrived in Vancouver (see the tweet), and they've already cut the sizzle reel (other tweet re the sizzle being just super great, i.e., already made), does that mean no Digg in the sizzle, or at least only old footage? If he is in it, it will probably be very little. But don't worry, you'll get shiny new toys you don't care for. 5 Link to comment
statsgirl July 21, 2016 Share July 21, 2016 (edited) I think Diggle should have relationship problems with Lyla because he just walked out on her and Sara, just as Felicity should have fallout from Havenrock. I could even like Diggle/Lyla if they write them as mature adults, which is possible since this is Diggle and Lyla. I wonder if Oliver is taking a break from vigilante-ing and so the baby vigilantes want to step in and save the city, and he returns to keep them from becoming the Keystone Kops. Or maybe Curtis brings them to Oliver's attention now that he's been part of the Team. As much as these writers like to rile people up, I'm not sure making Sara the Black Canary is a wise move. Comic book purists and Dinah Laurel Lance fans are already hating on the show for killing Laurel. Wiping her place in the show except for a statue isn't going to win them any friends. I'm all for Olicity being ambiguous for dramatic effect. But either one of them being in a dating relationship with someone else does not say "ambiguous" to me, it says "over". Edited July 21, 2016 by statsgirl 5 Link to comment
TimetravellingBW July 21, 2016 Share July 21, 2016 (edited) 26 minutes ago, statsgirl said: I think Diggle should have relationship problems with Lyla because he just walked out on her and Sara, just as Felicity should have fallout from Havenrock. I could even like Diggle/Lyla if they write them as mature adults, which is possible since this is Diggle and Lyla. I'd really love it if they paralleled Diggle/Felicity struggling with the dark choices they made at the end of S4 (killing Andy, Havenrock) and getting support from Lyla/Oliver who have more experience dealing with the "darkness" inside of them and making ruthless decisions for the greater good. I adored the scene in S3 with Oliver and Lyla bonding over being willing to cross lines that Felicity and Diggle wouldn't. If they could mine that dynamic and have some Diggle/Felicity bonding over their shared guilt. Diggle and Felicity have always been the moral compasses of the show, it would be great to flip that around and have the darker Lyla and Oliver help them through things. That way both couples could have relationship stuff in a mature fashion. Edited July 21, 2016 by TimetravellingBW 23 Link to comment
statsgirl July 21, 2016 Share July 21, 2016 That's a great idea, TimetravellingBW. I could take those endless fight scenes in the dark where I can't distinguish anyone if they give me good moral compass-gone-astray scenes like that. 3 Link to comment
Chaser July 21, 2016 Share July 21, 2016 SA was asked on Twitter about an OTA picture and he said they haven't worked together since April. Looks like no Diggle in the first 2 episodes. :-( 27 minutes ago, statsgirl said: I think Diggle should have relationship problems with Lyla because he just walked out on her and Sara, just as Felicity should have fallout from Havenrock. I could even like Diggle/Lyla if they write them as mature adults, which is possible since this is Diggle and Lyla. I wonder if Oliver is taking a break from vigilante-ing and so the baby vigilantes want to step in and save the city, and he returns to keep them from becoming the Keystone Kops. Or maybe Curtis brings them to Oliver's attention now that he's been part of the Team. As much as these writers like to rile people up, I'm not sure making Sara the Black Canary is a wise move. Comic book purists and Dinah Laurel Lance fans are already hating on the show for killing Laurel. Wiping her place in the show except for a statue isn't going to win them any friends. I'm all for Olicity being ambiguous for dramatic effect. But either one of them being in a dating relationship with someone else does not say "ambiguous" to me, it says "over". I'm going to walk a line here regarding BC. It's been the name that's mattered. I honestly think if they make it Sara 'Dinah' Lance, a lot of *comic people who discovered this new found love for KC/LL may change their minds. 1 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 July 21, 2016 Author Share July 21, 2016 Quote SA was asked on Twitter about an OTA picture and he said they haven't worked together since April. Looks like no Diggle in the first 2 episodes. :-( Filming for 502 doesn't end until next week (7/27). Additionally, since they're doing crossboards, Diggle can appear in 501 even if they film his 501 and 502 scenes between now (he's in Vancouver) and next Wednesday 10 Link to comment
Chaser July 21, 2016 Share July 21, 2016 9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said: Filming for 502 doesn't end until next week (7/27). Additionally, since they're doing crossboards, Diggle can appear in 501 even if they film his 501 and 502 scenes between now (he's in Vancouver) and next Wednesday You write pretty words. 1 Link to comment
Recommended Posts