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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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kismet

kismet

Along the lines of angry v. satisfied audiences, I think it also becomes a matter of whether the anger is caused by a sentinel event, a twist you might not like, or a pattern of behavior. 

For me personally, it has become a pattern of behavior from the writers room. This is not just about them killing off a character a like or keeping apart a couple. It's about consistently finding the worse way to tell the story they want to tell. Its a building up of choices since s3, that have made it harder to just brush under the rug and move forward. It's about them taking great ideas, ruining them beyond repair and then telling me that it's my fault I don't like what they do.

If it was just about Olicity being broken, then it would be easier to say oh they are just teasing me and playing the long game with the audience. However, they are gradually revealing the type of show they want to produce and it is moving further away from the show I want it to be. I was angry when they killed Tommy & Moira, but I saw the journey they were taking the characters on. I processed my anger and moved forward with the show. This systemic behavior of questionable character choices, poorly written/executed story arcs and repetitive storytelling of the stupidest parts is problematic.

It's more than just making the audience angry, it's making them feel like maybe they need to turn somewhere else for better stories. Or sit around hoping they won't screw us over this time. In a wait & see mode, until they stomp all over my heart & intelligence again. Perhaps, its premature at this point - but I blame that on the writers for in the last 2 seasons giving me more to question than to savor. I don't need to be satisfied with every minute of TV I watch. But I don't like to be played the fool either. In some ways, I think they want the audience to be like LL continually returning to OQ despite his disrespectful behavior. After all that was there One True Love and Destiny. The idealized relationship they based the whole show on. Well I can say one thing with certainty, I am no LL. And spoiler alert she died in the end, maybe the audience might as well if they are not careful. So I'll just sit here lower my expectations to increase my anger threshold.

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Chaser

Chaser

I know SA propped a hockey stick against the piano and put a Felicity Funko Pop on top. Did he get the Pop from the audience or did he have it on him? I'm amused at the thought he carries one with him.

As for SA just telling an Olicity fan what they wanted to hear, he made a point of addressing it at his panel. He could have just let it be.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)
2 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

[Edited by Mod: Fandom discussion.]

But I want Arrow to be a gritty action show too. I just also want to watch O/F makeout and go at it on Felicity's desk a few times. Or against the wall. The wall would be good too.

I DON'T ASK FOR MUCH, OKAY?!

Edited by MuuMuuChainsmoker
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wonderwall

wonderwall

Hot/rough sex scenes against the wall can be gritty... I'm just sayin' ;)

5 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

But I want Arrow to be a gritty action show too. I just also want to watch O/F makeout and go at it on Felicity's desk a few times. Or against the wall. The wall would be good too.

I DON'T ASK FOR MUCH, OKAY?!

YOU READ MY MIND

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lemotomato

lemotomato

6 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

But I want Arrow to be a gritty action show too. I just also want to watch O/F makeout and go at it on Felicity's desk a few times. Or against the wall. The wall would be good too.

I DON'T ASK FOR MUCH, OKAY?!

The funny thing is that gritty action show with intermittent making out was exactly what we got in season 2B... with Sara. I don't see why we can't have that with Felicity. I won't believe that she hasn't jumped Oliver after a shirtless salmon ladder session at some point. 

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tangerine95

tangerine95

I don't think Stephen is avoiding it. What he said to the fan about promoting a movie and having to move away from show questions imo explains why he didn't get into olicity as much as we usually does. And i do think he just promotes what's happening on the show and not much in advance. Like he used to talk like Felicity and Ray were a serious obstacle even tho everyone who ever watched TV knew they weren't. Now it's olicity are friends and don't have to be romantic to have a meaningful relationship because that's what's happening in the beginning of the season even tho it's pretty obvious they'll get back together. 

I don't have a problem with what he said. My problem is the writers being unaware of the fact that its hard to buy two people who were about to get married being okay being just friends. That kind of thing is okay if this was season 2 or 3 but not after what they did with them in season 4 imo. Now i think its a regression and its them realising they went too far and have at least two more seasons to get through and want to stall olicity purely for plot reasons. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

16 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

But I want Arrow to be a gritty action show too. I just also want to watch O/F makeout and go at it on Felicity's desk a few times. Or against the wall. The wall would be good too.

I DON'T ASK FOR MUCH, OKAY?!

I want the action scenes TO BE the makeout scenes, but this show doesn't understand me.

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Guest

Guest

Just now, lemotomato said:

The funny thing is that gritty action show with intermittent making out was exactly what we got in season 2B... with Sara. I don't see why we can't have that with Felicity. I won't believe that she hasn't jumped Oliver after a shirtless salmon ladder session at some point. 

Exactly. I mean, yes I'm a big Olicity fan but I don't need to see their romance on screen all the time. I don't need the big proposals or engagement parties or any of that. I'm pretty happy with O/F just being happy and together and yeah, making out and having sex against the wall a few times. 

DON'T LOOK AT ME LIKE THAT OKAY, THEY'RE SO HOT TOGETHER.

The point is just because I'm a shipper and I am invested in their relationship doesn't mean I don't want or appreciate great stunts and action and adventure. I want all of that. I just so happen to want O/F together too. It's not a one or the other situation. The trouble is, they've kind of done away with the great stunts and action and good writing and basically everything I enjoyed about the show so the romance is the last remaining thing that's keeping me here.

Sort it out, MG/WM! (Haha, they won't. I know it. I think we all do tbh.)

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Chaser

Chaser

I was curious and googled it. All I found was they got in a very public fight 10 years ago. He yelled at her and called her the c word. He was also apart of some CW web series were he said Rory Sucks. That was after they broke up and just weird. 

I hope he has grown up since then. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

For me, calling her the c word in public is enough. But he was generally weirdly controlling of her. He's a decent bit older than she is, and he had a habit, both before and after blecchRory, of dating younger actresses and being pretty controlling with them (the cheerleader from Heroes was next).

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wonderwall

wonderwall

1 minute ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

Please don't discuss fandoms and what Hollywood does or doesn't think of them.  

Just because I'm not posting, doesn't mean I'm not watching you:

29e2f870-767c-0132-db3c-0a4c098339d7.gif

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

6 minutes ago, MuuMuuChainsmoker said:

Please don't discuss fandoms and what Hollywood does or doesn't think of them.  

Just because I'm not posting, doesn't mean I'm not watching you:

DSCN0254.JPG

So the U.S. Ambassador to South Africa has a cat named Beatrix Kiddo. I think I'm in love? With the ambassador, the cat, or just the name for the cat, I'm not sure.

I'm weirdly comfortable that while Beatrix Kiddo is the perfect name for a cat, it would be a terrible name for a dog.

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kismet

kismet

2 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Hot/rough sex scenes against the wall can be gritty... I'm just sayin' ;)

YOU READ MY MIND

Yes it can! I have watched an abundance of them now on cable shows. The Americans & Animal Kingdom, they make True Blood & GoT look tame sometimes.

It really is a shame that Arrow is not on cable :(

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Exactly. I mean, yes I'm a big Olicity fan but I don't need to see their romance on screen all the time. I don't need the big proposals or engagement parties or any of that. I'm pretty happy with O/F just being happy and together and yeah, making out and having sex against the wall a few times. 

DON'T LOOK AT ME LIKE THAT OKAY, THEY'RE SO HOT TOGETHER.

The point is just because I'm a shipper and I am invested in their relationship doesn't mean I don't want or appreciate great stunts and action and adventure. I want all of that. I just so happen to want O/F together too. It's not a one or the other situation. The trouble is, they've kind of done away with the great stunts and action and good writing and basically everything I enjoyed about the show so the romance is the last remaining thing that's keeping me here.

Sort it out, MG/WM! (Haha, they won't. I know it. I think we all do tbh.)

Truth :( Although the writing was barely passing on romance so its looking bleak. Thank the heavens for SA &EBR.

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looptab

looptab

4 hours ago, Chaser said:

As for SA just telling an Olicity fan what they wanted to hear, he made a point of addressing it at his panel. He could have just let it be.

What did he say at the panel? Was it posted here? I just read the tweets from @fanmommer.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

No, I don't. I Nope-ed out of Twitter when the fallout from the con reports started to get messy. Maybe someone will post a vid of the panel in the next couple days? 

Edited by lemotomato
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looptab

looptab

15 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

No, I don't. I Nope-ed out of Twitter when the fallout from the con reports started to get messy. Maybe someone will post a vid of the panel in the next couple days? 

Haha okay, thanks again :)

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kismet

kismet

It is affect, I remember as a child I learned the hint that the "a" causes an action. To affect is to have an effect on; make a difference to.

An effect is a change that is a result or consequence of an action or other cause - therefore the "e" stands for an event.

So he might have been talking about effects during the panels, but the tweet is using affect properly.

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Thundercatmary

Thundercatmary

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

It definitely is "affect" lmfao I love it when people try to correct other people's grammar in a very condescending way but are completely wrong lmao

Me to! Mostly cause I dislike people who love to correct spelling/grammer all the time. Lol

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

FanMomMer's tumblr summaries on her conversation with SA about Olicity at HVFF-NY and what she thinks it means (make of them what you will)...
http://fanmommer.tumblr.com/post/146864950544/the-hvff-olicity-reflection-post

Quote

I heard the possible bf spoiler. I did. I am of the mind that one of two things is happening here: either Stephen is fully trolling and lied, OR this is the manifestation of that “they try to move on” piece we’ve heard. Maybe we see or hear about a boyfriend, Felicity tried to move on, but I’m confident it’s not a major story and is over quickly because the point of this is to show that she CANT. They ARE building back to Olicity. Just maybe more slowly than we would like.

I also think that Stephen talking about them having a great friendship and working relationship is NOT backtracking or friend zoning. I think it’s BUILDING. I also think there is something big happening for Olicity later on - maybe tied to another storyline - that can’t be spoiled now. I don’t know what. But I think the romance is being downplayed for two reasons. 1. To allow the show to refocus on the fighting and the gritty and the action, and 2. To cover for something big coming.

http://fanmommer.tumblr.com/post/146872619494/hvff-nynj-20-round-up-post

Quote

We finally got to talk to him. I recounted most of it on Twitter. It was a long, in depth convo (sorry to the people behind us.) He was very receptive and thoughtful, listened to us and engaged with us. Now, I have heard about the Felicity bf thing and I addressed it in my Olicity thoughts post. My sense from SA was all very positive, but also that Olicity isn’t going to be a/the focus early on in the season - but it will come later. I also think there’s something bigger in the works that they don’t even want to tease yet. That’s my thought.
*  *  *
So that’s the Stephen piece. Anything else has been tweeted or addressed in my Olicity thoughts post. I have a ton of anons and really, all my thoughts have been said now. I don’t think this boyfriend thing is going to be a big deal - if it even happens at all. He could have been trolling, 100%. He said it to someone during a one on one conversation, so things can be misinterpreted or misunderstood for sure. I didn’t hear it, but based on what I do know and what he has said to me, that is my thought. I also think when SA said Oliver is still thinking marriage he means Oliver still and always will love Felicity. I don’t think a triangle is in the works. I just think ANY romance is being toned down for 5a. Why? I don’t know. We’ll see how it plays out. 

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

My guess? "The Bachelor Mayor." (yes, that's sarcasm)

Honestly, I've been trying to stay positive about S5, but it's really difficult.  I do not want to watch a season of Oliver & Felicity moving on - or Felicity being stuck on another Palmer Island - or the show forgetting or ignoring the three-year buildup of the Olicity relationship.  Just... no.

IIRC, S1 and S3 had the highest ratings. So I feel like they're combining those two seasons with tons of vigilante action and love triangles.

Edited by tv echo
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bijoux

bijoux

Going through the tweets @tv echo posted in Spoilers Only, a few things caught my attention.

I've seen 'the season will start differently' a few times over the weekend, and while I'm not especially attached to it, I almost can't imagine them not opening with Oliver running. Maybe they'll open with him running after or from someone in the flashbacks and not in the present day? Or it's simply him running away from someone/something? He's been running after or towards something all four seasons so far. I don't even know why I'm giving this so much thought. It's probably because I don't want this to correlate to him bringing up flash forwards. I hope that one is just him speculating, not something really happening.

i think this is the first time I saw Anarky coming backthis season being mentioned. He'd definitely make a better arch nemesis for Thea than Malcolm. He's never really been hers anyhow. With Dig losing Deadshot in that role, this could be a fun play on that dynamics.

What with SA bringing up his marriage to Nyssa and then marriage being on his mind, I wonder if this will finally be dealt with. And maybe Oliver apologizes for screwing her over.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Wasn't the Nyssa thing a total joke about him running home and then Nyssa's there making eggs?

I kinda want the season to start with Mayor Queen running like crazy towards a really terribly boring budget meeting.

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bijoux

bijoux

Or away from reporters or groupies.

I saw something about him deflecting an Olicity question by bringing up that Oliver is still married to Nyssa. On its own, I didn't pay it much attention, but since brought up marriga on Oliver's mind, it made me wonder if that's somehow connected.

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

Yeah, he is usually running through foliage and stuff, and maybe now he will be running into a meeting. So the difference could just be the absence of green ::)

Edited by looptab
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looptab

looptab

BTW, now that I've actually read the spoiler tweets, I think maybe he was just referring to the "My name is Oliver Queen.." thing. Maybe there will be a prayer to Saint Laurel in there. :p

Oh, and, @tv echo, I don't think the Russian bathouse thing is an actual spoiler :)

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tv echo

tv echo

Yeah, that's why I prefer to watch actual videos of the panels.  With tweets - even assuming they're accurate - you don't get the vocal connotations or the context.

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tv echo

tv echo

Here's why SA's 'friend-zoning' comments about Olicity make me uncomfortable... IIRC, similar comments were made about Oliver's relationship with Laurel in advance of S4 and we know what happened there.  It's like the first step in distancing Felicity from Oliver's journey and then off the show.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

(edited)

To what purpose, though? Remove romance entirely from "Arrow"? Who'd be the Woman He Loves then? Because I don't think Arrow is straying away from its template of the hero changing and finding the light because of the girl. We have a pretty good idea why Laurel had been friend-zoned for seasons. Because she's not The Girl. C'mon, fans got to be a bit sensible here. I understand there seems to be some kind of panic going on in the fandom but maybe take a deep breath or two. Or a hundred. As had been pointed out in previous posts in various threads, even when Olicity was "backburned" toward the end of last season, there was a scene in almost every episode that inched them forward (I think @quarks had a lengthy post on that). Unless Emily Bett Rickards is trying to get out of Arrow, I don't think Felicity or Olicity is going away. And yeah, I'm a bit more worried about EBR not sticking around after her contract ends than I am with SA.

Edited by SmallScreenDiva
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