Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Soulfire]

Home and still working on a COH2 (City of Heroes con) recap, but here’s a transcription of Emily talking about Felicity’s guilt in the Sunday lounge session. This should perhaps have been put in the Social Media thread, but since it contains talk about events that haven't taken place yet, I'm posting it here --
 

Quote

Fan asks her what she thinks when she read that moment (nuking the town):

EBR: “Actually, that was one of my favorite moments ever written—for me, anyway, because I was just like yes, I get to DO something. Like, I get to—that’s something Felicity hasn’t felt, like, she hasn’t had that guilt, as a superhero, and all superheroes are guilty. [They all have some] massive guilt, but the thing is, you know, she saved millions and killed thousands.”

Q: “Do you think she will recover? Maybe with the help of Oliver?”

EBR: “Will she recover, with the help of Oliver?” [makes a joke about how she heard the question on delay.] “Yeah! I think, I think… it continues on, til the end of the season, you’ll see sort of like that theme, uhm… but I think in comparison to the writing, I mean, I’m going to have to remember as an actor that she has that guilt and I don’t think we’re going to touch on it in the writing as much.”

Edited May 18, 2016 by Soulfire

[dtissagirl]

8 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

it continues on, til the end of the season, you’ll see sort of like that theme, uhm… but I think in comparison to the writing, I mean, I’m going to have to remember as an actor that she has that guilt and I don’t think we’re going to touch on it in the writing as much.”

LOL, the entire story of Felicity's POV about most things. Such an accurate description

Thanks for transcribing, @Soulfire!

[bijoux]

59 minutes ago, looptab said:

Seems like Thea is brainwashed...YAY?

What makes you say that?

[looptab]

Malcolm threatening to do something he doesn't want to do to make her comply makes me think that he will actually give her those 'vitamins', rather than she'll just be pretending. Could be wrong and Malcolm makes another surprise turn, or Thea finds a way out of it, though.

Also, there goes my hope for the show dealing with Felicity nuking a city. It'll be just the plot for one Felicity centric episode next season, at best. :/

Edited May 18, 2016 by looptab

[bijoux]

Eh, I was just unimpressed by Malcolm. He was the parent threatening his kid with "or else" and en not having the else ready when the kid pushes back. Thea is fightig with the team in the finale. There is no time for her to be truly brain washed and have it dealt with in a day.

[wonderwall]

33 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

Home and still working on a COH2 (City of Heroes con) recap, but here’s a transcription of Emily talking about Felicity’s guilt in the Sunday lounge session. This should perhaps have been put in the Social Media thread, but since it contains talk about events that haven't taken place yet, I'm posting it here --
 

This is MASSIVELY disappointing. But I knew I should've expected it... smh

[bijoux]

Plus, Malcolm's gauntlet looks extra stupid. And limp.

[wonderwall]

Me right now:

[Guest]

Wow, so yet again it's likely that we'll have to guess how Felicity is feeling. God forbid we show Felicity's reaction to dropping a nuclear bomb, just incase we upset people that she's getting too much screen time! Oh the horror!

What a joke. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Guest

[thegirlsleuth]

Just now, Angel12d said:

Wow, so yet again it's likely that we'll have to guess how Felicity is feeling. God forbid we show Felicity's reaction to dropping a nuclear bomb, just incase we upset people that she's getting too much screen time! Oh the horror!

What a joke. 

Or Emily Bett Rickards will try to imbue some emotion into the scenes because there's nothing in text, and there will be wild interpretations on what she's thinking and Felicity will get accused of being overly emotional.  Awesome.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Or Emily Bett Rickards will try to imbue some emotion into the scenes because there's nothing in text, and there will be wild interpretations on what she's thinking and Felicity will get accused of being overly emotional.  Awesome.

I know. I cannot wait for that.

*looks into the camera like I'm on The Office*

[wonderwall]

I've calmed down. I get it. The next 2 episodes all happen in the same day and Felicity can't properly deal with the emotional ramifications until it's all over and Damien's plan is destroyed. I really get it. Felicity would definitely need to put aside her emotions until everyone's safe. 

If I see an interview with an EP saying that this won't be explored in season 5 for Felicity then I'm going to flip my shit. Just sayin'

Edited May 18, 2016 by wonderwall

[kismet]

20 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Eh, I was just unimpressed by Malcolm. He was the parent threatening his kid with "or else" and en not having the else ready when the kid pushes back. Thea is fightig with the team in the finale. There is no time for her to be truly brain washed and have it dealt with in a day.

That's why i think even if she is "BRAINWASHED", its going to be a redo of AlShaHim "brainwashing" from last season. We'll get an episode of TQ is eeevvviiilll, and then a Just Kidding transition back the next episode.

15 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Me right now:

It's basically why I've stopped watching the preview clips. I love reading everyones' take on it here. But I almost prefer my vision of the show to be shattered in one sitting, then getting advanced warning that it might suck. Expectations are really everything when it comes to how one is spoiled for Arrow.

Edited May 18, 2016 by kismet

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I've calmed down. I get it. The next 2 episodes all happen in the same day and Felicity can't properly deal with the emotional ramifications until it's all over and Damien's plan is destroyed. I really get it. Felicity would definitely need to put aside her emotions until everyone's safe. 

If I don't see an interview with an EP saying that this won't be explored in season 5 for Felicity then I'm going to flip my shit. Just sayin'

This. I can let it slide for now because there will be a lot going on in the episodes and there's little time but I hope we see something. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

16 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Or Emily Bett Rickards will try to imbue some emotion into the scenes because there's nothing in text, and there will be wild interpretations on what she's thinking and Felicity will get accused of being overly emotional.  Awesome.

Or she won't show sufficient emotion over the fallout, and she'll be accused of being a heartless, remorseless, murdering b*tch!

[looptab]

9 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

This. I can let it slide for now because there will be a lot going on in the episodes and there's little time but I hope we see something. 

I don't ask much,  but even just a scene of her acknowledging the part she had in it and react to it. For one scene. FFS.

[wonderwall]

8 minutes ago, looptab said:

I don't ask much,  but even just a scene of her acknowledging the part she had in it and react to it. For one scene. FFS.

I think Noah telling Felicity they need to focus on Rubicon is him telling her not to freak out about Havenrock. -_-

[NumberCruncher]

Remember when we were all excited that they were going to make Felicity the Palmer Tech CEO because we thought it might actually give her a real storyline outside of being Oliver's girlfriend?  Just remember how that turned out.  Or shorter version: what @wonderwall posted.

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, looptab said:

I don't ask much,  but even just a scene of her acknowledging the part she had in it and react to it. For one scene. FFS.

Same. But I agree with @wonderwall. I think the scene with Noah and Curtis is basically all we'll get. Oh well.

[Soulfire]

Here's another transcribed excerpt from Emily's lounge sessions at COH2, kinda relating to tonight's episode --

Quote

Q: “Has there ever been a scene, where it’s written on the page and you just go, Nope, not doing that, recoiling, that’s not Felicity…?”

EBR: “Yeah! I mean, there’s been—not a scene, like a SCENE, but uhm, certain types of environment I dealt with a couple scenes this year, that I—we’re in the Loft, and I didn’t think she’d be in the Loft. Environment, place, is such a big thing. I don’t think that Felicity should still live there.”

[Fans comment on how they were confused, because they thought Felicity moved out.]

EBR: “By the way, so was I!”

[Fans comment/mumble.]

EBR: “This was a HUGE debate.  [They said] well, we never said that she moved out -- I was like, she wouldn’t stay. It was like, I can’t… so this was the one I had a problem with. I was like, she wouldn’t be there. I think there’s no way. I would not stay. I would not personally stay in that apartment. Felicity is stronger than me, but I would not stay in that apartment. I just wouldn’t do it.”

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Soulfire

[wonderwall]

So many "what wonderwall said" posts!  :) I feel so special haha

[Mellowyellow]

Happy watching today guys and don't forget to post about Felicity related stuff that happens to cheer me up (really struggling with season 4).

[lemotomato]

40 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

EBR: “This was a HUGE debate.  [They said] well, we never said that she moved out -- I was like, she wouldn’t stay. It was like, I can’t… so this was the one I had a problem with. I was like, she wouldn’t be there. I think there’s no way. I would not stay. I would not personally stay in that apartment. Felicity is stronger than me, but I would not stay in that apartment. I just wouldn’t do it.”

This is why when MG answers questions so flippantly, it's really frustrating. When someone asked him about the loft situation, he hashtagged his answer with something like #theGuyAlwaysMovesOut. Details like that aren't a big deal to him, but they matter to the actor and the fans who care about the motivation and mindset of the character. It reminds me of his tweet justifying why Oliver would lie to Felicity about William "Well, of course Oliver would lie, because parents would do anything to see their kids."

Thanks for transcribing, @Soulfire

[wonderwall]

In the end it's simple

#Arrowdoesn'thavethemoneyforanotherset

And that's why Felicity didn't move out.

[Guest]

I bet the apartment situation came down to it being a set issue. They didn't want to pay out on a new set for Felicity's apartment and they probably knew they wanted future scenes to take place there, hence letting Felicity keep the loft. 

Edit. Or what @wonderwall said. LOL. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Guest

[wonderwall]

Just now, Angel12d said:

Edit. Or what @wonderwall said. LOL. 

Heeeee :)

Refer back to my penultimate post :D

[dtissagirl]

My annoyance with shit like this is -- you know you only have this one set, and you want Felicity to be the one living there post-breakup? Then don't fucking give her an ambiguous scene of labeling boxes that makes it 100% unclear who's moving out. Spell it out in text that she's staying, and figure out a narrative reason to. 

[lemotomato]

He could have also just answered the question without adding the hashtag to it. I dunno... it bugged me.

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

My annoyance with shit like this is -- you know you only have this one set, and you want Felicity to be the one living there post-breakup? Then don't fucking give her an ambiguous scene of labeling boxes that makes it 100% unclear who's moving out. Spell it out in text that she's staying, and figure out a narrative reason to. 

I'm betting they didn't even think that far enough ahead. they wanted an angsty/awkward breakup scene...have Felicity packing up boxes and Oliver act awkward. 

6-7 episodes later...uh oh we need a set for this Donna/Lance and Smoak Family scenes.  We cant put them in the Arrow cave, can't use PT oh yeah, let's use the Loft set!

[dtissagirl]

Oh, I know it's lack of planning ahead, but it's not like the issue of not having enough sets wasn't known when they prepped 416. This is the kind of red flag a good script supervisor raises in the ambiguous boxes scene.

[wonderwall]

Everything about the breakup and the conflict was half hearted... So why wouldn't the aftermath? I'm beginning to think that the writers REALLY didn't want this to happen which is why they didn't put any thought into all of htis whatsoever.

[TimetravellingBW]

5 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Thea turning evil and possibly being the next Big Bad would have been an interesting twist if a) she weren't Oliver's last living relative so we already know she's not going to stay evil/die and b) we haven't had to watch Oliver spend the last 2 seasons "saving" her from one thing or another. 

Ugh, they had a good set up for Thea going bad and acting as Malcolm's henchmen during Season 3. She didn't know Oliver was the Arrow, she'd lost her mother, felt like Roy betrayed her and went to Malcolm to become strong. I could have bought MM brainwashing her over the break through League of Assassins training, and the two of them going against the Arrow without her knowing it was Oliver. I was actually really excited to see if they'd go down that path. (And super inspired by fan art like this http://fmirza95.deviantart.com/art/Arrow-Season-3-Promo-Join-the-Fight-473169511)

Instead they brought her back to Starling so MM and Oliver could become best buds, while she was forced to care for her abuser and her brother gave her no agency.

Now she's been part of Team Arrow all season, become Speedy and fought her blood lust, it feels like the chance for Thea to go dark had passed. It's irritating because they've had chances to send characters dark: Thea during S3, Laurel basically since S2, but instead have loaded up Team Arrow with too many members. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[kismet]

I still think they should have just had O/F buy an identical loft to TQ's when they returned to SC. That way once the break-up occurred OQ could spend time in one loft and FS in the other loft when necessary for conversations. FS could have kept the loft because it was hers, since she was the only one with money to buy it in the premiere, and not TQs. No real set changes needed, maybe a new set of throw pillows. No weird showrunner snark and no actors trying to find consistent narrative in weird character choices because of budget limitations. We would have had to sacrifice the carpet joke, but it really wasn't that good of a joke anyway.

That being said, my head canon was that they both had moved out of the loft for all intent purposes, but still had the lease/own it so when Donna needed a place to stay they just let her move in. Who kept/lived in the apt post break-up never bothered me, but I definitely did not like MG's snarky handling of the question. It was never clear in the actual - no need to be flippant when people ask for clarification.

[AyChihuahua]

So I guess DD doesn't need the chamber anymore to harvest souls or whatever bullshit?

She's not causing these deaths and shouldn't get the juju. Guggie has zero story consistency.

[calliope1975]

I'm going to need Anarchy to survive all this. I admire his moxie. 

Can no one text Thea? She's in her early twenties; her phone would be glued to her hand.

[catrox14]

NOOO. Don't you namedrop Moira, Malcolm ..grrrrrr  MY QUEEN

[apinknightmare]

Just now, calliope1975 said:

I'm going to need Anarchy to survive all this. I admire his moxie. 

Can no one text Thea? She's in her early twenties; her phone would be glued to her hand.

If I were kidnapping someone to take them to an underground dome, I'd for sure take their phone away, haha. 

[calliope1975]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

If I were kidnapping someone to take them to an underground dome, I'd for sure take their phone away, haha. 

Exactly! Which would raise red flags when she didn't respond. :D

Like when Oliver knew Felicity was in trouble because she wasn't answering his calls. 

Speaking of - do you think they have wifi down there? TV? If I was forcibly taken to an underground corn kingdom and couldn't stream Netflix, I'd be pissed. See? That's why you don't nuke the planet and live underground. Netflix.

[catrox14]

I hope Thea will be running a long con on Malcolm and fighting Oliver is part of that.

[Thundercatmary]

I feel like a lot of these inconsistencies could be easily fixed. Either don't show  that menorah in the box or have felicity make a joke that he owns a menorah, he could say he bought it got the mayors office because her faith etc, then felicity comments how she feels strange staying there and Oliver says it's no biggie he'll stay at the lair.

Something like that would make more sense IMO and I could see it happening that way, and still lots of potential for awkward moments lol.

Head cannon accepted ;)

Edited May 19, 2016 by Thundercatmary

[catrox14]

I love that Oliver has his brain working again.

[AyChihuahua]

I really don't think it's wise for Oliver et al. to take this detour when the END OF THE WORLD is about to happen. Prioritize, dude. She's not even in any immediate danger, FFS!

[catrox14]

OH SHUT YOUR FACE, Donna. Just because you didn't know about it doesn't mean your daughter is like Noah.

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Exactly! Which would raise red flags when she didn't respond. :D

Like when Oliver knew Felicity was in trouble because she wasn't answering his calls. 

They should've gotten suspicious when they couldn't get hold of her last ep, considering they know her boyfriend is (was, RIP Tim Tebow) working for Ruve Darhk. BUT PLOT

Edited May 19, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

Not sure what it is but this episode isn't working for me

[catrox14]

I'm sorry but Malcolm's hand really makes me laugh.

[calliope1975]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Not sure what it is but this episode isn't working for me

I agree. Pacing maybe? The team's separated? Something is a bit off for me as well. 

[dtissagirl]

This entire Oliver-Diggle thing feels like WHEEEE LAUREL IS DEAD, REAL STUNTS IN DAYLIGHT HERE WE GOOOO.

[AyChihuahua]

For me it's Thea and her goddamn neverending bullshit daddy issues, and Oliver's willingness to drop everything, including stopping the goddamn END OF THE WORLD, for her sorry incompetent ass. 

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, dtissagirl said:

This entire Oliver-Diggle thing feels like WHEEEE LAUREL IS DEAD, REAL STUNTS IN DAYLIGHT HERE WE GOOOO.

oh absolutely.  that was fun