Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

Okay, so Oliver in the LoA uniform was shown in the sizzle reel at the end of this episode's Flash. More than once. 

 

How odd that they'd spoil that. 

[AyChihuahua]

The Flash promo just had a bunch of Oliver in it.  I don't think it's AU Oliver, and he's in LOA costume helping Barry v. RF and the Rogues.  I've been boycotting all Arrow promos (plus actual episodes, of course) so it took me by surprise and made me really miss Oliver.

 

 

Okay, so Oliver in the LoA uniform was shown in the sizzle reel at the end of this episode's Flash. More than once.

Yeah, there was more Oliver than half the Flash cast.  Also, apparently Ray has to mess up the pavement when he lands.  Rude.  Stonemasons are not cheap.

Edited April 1, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

I just don't understand Flash LoA Oliver. 

 

Ra's just lets him go so he can help his lil friend Barry with his villain problem? Does Barry go snatch him from somewhere? Is he in CC on League business? It truly does not compute. 

[AyChihuahua]

I said that a couple days ago and everyone dismissed it.  He's going to go from his penultimate episode (presumably v. Ra's) to go help Barry.  And it's not like his Ra's business is just concluded and they're pulling a Buffy S4 (penultimate epi destroys Big Bad, then final epi is aftermath), or it doesn't seem that he'd still be in LOA garb.

 

I guess he could still just be AU Oliver, but seriously, Occam's razor.  

[apinknightmare]

I said that a couple days ago and everyone dismissed it.  He's going to go from his penultimate episode (presumably v. Ra's) to go help Barry.  And it's not like his Ra's business is just concluded and they're pulling a Buffy S4 (penultimate epi destroys Big Bad, then final epi is aftermath), or it doesn't seem that he'd still be in LOA garb.

 

I guess he could still just be AU Oliver, but seriously, Occam's razor.  

 

 

I'm not confused about the timeline so much as what exactly his role is going to be in the League of Assassins if that's what he's off doing. Does he have to, like...go through some weird initiation/training? Is he going to be off on missions like any old rando League member? I mean, the timeline is a little weird, but I'm mostly just wondering WTF he's doing in CC as a member of the LoA.

 

Also, they showed Laurel in that Flash reel again in what looks like the SCPD/DA's office, so wtf.

Edited April 1, 2015 by apinknightmare

[AyChihuahua]

I understand the timeline, but I find and have found it odd that the last two episodes include an intermission in the middle to help Barry.

 

Oh, and re The Flash (spoilers for tonight's episode of The Flash, using tag as it's not an Arrow spoiler) 

RIP Harrison Wells.

Edited April 1, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Guest]

Okay, so Oliver in the LoA uniform was shown in the sizzle reel at the end of this episode's Flash. More than once. 

 

How odd that they'd spoil that. 

 

They don't really care about Arrow anymore though, at least that's my impression. But yeah, totally weird they'd spoil it.

[AyChihuahua]

They care about THE Arrow, though, if not Arrow the tv show, because he was much more heavily featured than I would have thought possible.

[Chaser]

I'm honestly confused. Who is going where? Is Lance going to CC or West going to SC? And Cisco is going SC too? And why is Laurel in the Flash preview again? And why is there Ray but no Felicity? And why is LOA Oliver popping in to SC? And why isn't Team Arrow there too?

 

I can't keep any of this straight.

[wonderwall]

So..... basically all I got from episode 18 is that there will be a lot of running... That sounds ridiculously boring. 

[Sunshine]

So..... basically all I got from episode 18 is that there will be a lot of running... That sounds ridiculously boring. 

You forgot the hanging in the hospital watching Ray scenes! Hope MamaSmoak livens that up!

[Chaser]

Does anyone know if the shows are going to sync back up again? There are too many crossovers going on right now. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm honestly confused. Who is going where? Is Lance going to CC or West going to SC? And Cisco is going SC too? And why is Laurel in the Flash preview again? And why is there Ray but no Felicity? And why is LOA Oliver popping in to SC? And why isn't Team Arrow there too?

 

I can't keep any of this straight.

 

Lance is going to CC AND West and Cisco are going to SC (which is where that Laurel clip is from - I don't know why they keep showing it with the Flash stuff, unless part of their SC visit is spliced into a Flash episode). I think we all know why there's Ray! 

 

No clue why Oliver's all alone in his LoA outfit, although I guess it could be either A) some kind of weird AU or b) they called Oliver because he's a lone wolf LoA member now (who apparently doesn't have to get time off from the boss, unless we're to believe that Ra's wants to take down the rogues of CC).

[AyChihuahua]

They are not, apparently, going to sync up as of now.  So LOA Oliver will be in The Flash 22 and then back to his own finale the next (real time) day.  Maybe the LOA has a generous personal day policy.

 

It's all very confusing, but I guess Guggie would just say "Keep watching."

[looptab]

They are evil, evil people because I had dropped The Flash after the midseason finale and was planning to watch just the crossover with Felicity, but now they are dragging me back in. What is Oliver doing there??? What's happening??? Gah!

[Morrigan2575]

here's a thought what if 122 is the Flashpoin Paradox? That's not our Oliver it's an AU version. That would easily mean that the events on 122 have no baring or interpretation on 322-323.

This would also explain why Ronnie/Robbie Amell isn't in the spinoff (for now). Ronnie makes ultimate sacrifice and gets trapped in AU or lost in Multiverse.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm nowhere near as invested in The Flash as I used to be in Arrow, but I'm definitely watching that episode.  No Ray or OOC Felicity.  (Plus I love Joe and Barry and Cisco, and Cavanaugh is killing it.)  Really want to see what happens with RF.  Looks like they find Harrison Wells' body.

 

here's a thought what if 122 is the Flashpoin Paradox? That's not our Oliver it's an AU version. That would easily mean that the events on 122 have no baring or interpretation on 322-323.

Lots of people have raised that possibility, including me and, I think, you.  However, if he were some always-LOA version, why would he help or even know Barry?  He definitely seemed to be on his side and yelled his name.  It's not like it's surprising to see Oliver in LOA garb at this point.

[Morrigan2575]

Lots of people have raised that possibility, including me and, I think, you. However, if he were some always-LOA version, why would he help or even know Barry? He definitely seemed to be on his side and yelled his name. It's not like it's surprising to see Oliver in LOA garb at this point.

he doesn't have to be always LoA. Could be an Oliver that won in 309 and became Ra's then. Or could be a Sara/Oliver swap, Nyssa saved Oliver from the Amazo.

The down side is that it would be a really rushed explanation as to why he's different but it really wouldn't take take much. Habe Barry mess up the time stream in 121, have all the exposition there and then bring AU Oliver in for 122 have epic battle and then Barry resets time back to "real" universe at end of 122.

Odds are it's not AU and this is real universe just screwed up because of scheduling. However, it's an interesting possibility, especially since the theme of that promo was all time travel and focused on Barry saving his mom.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Guest]

Man, time travel is really hard to write about.

 

And I just realized not many people will get that reference haha.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

he doesn't have to be always LoA. Could be an Oliver that won in 309 and became Ra's then. Or could be a Sara/Oliver swap, Nyssa saved Oliver from the Amazo.

The down side is that it would be a really rushed explanation as to why he's different but it really wouldn't take take much. Habe Barry mess up the time stream in 121, have all the exposition there and then bring AU Oliver in for 122 have epic battle and then Barry resets time back to "real" universe at end of 122.

Odds are it's not AU and this is real universe just screwed up because of scheduling. However, it's an interesting possibility, especially since the theme of that promo was all time travel and focused on Barry saving his mom.

 

Well, it seems like Barry's not done futzing with time, so it could be some kind of Flashpoint variant, but yeah. He'd definitely need to make things right. 

[AyChihuahua]

If Nyssa saved Oliver instead of Sara, then Oliver would have no reason to know or help Barry.  And I don't see (although who knows) how there's much Barry could change that would make Oliver win the fight.  Also, does Ra's wear regular LOA clothes?  Maybe.  I'm going 80/20 non-AU Oliver at this point.  Occam's razor.  Non-AU Oliver is nearly certainly in the LOA at that point, and would help Barry.  

 

Kreisberg is overall more logical than Guggie, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that it will make sense.   

[Hook75]

Too much Ray in The Flash promo. Why must he ruin not one, but two of my shows?

[looptab]

Back to Arrow 3x18, how's Laurel fighting against LoA and not dying? Please...

Glad we had confirmation that Felicity shares at least a scene with non-Ray characters. I'm not really looking forward to this episode, blah.

[lexicon]

Too much Ray in The Flash promo. Why must he ruin not one, but two of my shows?

 

Hey we've had to suffer over at Arrow allllll season long, it's your turn at the Flash ;)

[kismet]

All I can say is I was more excited during the Flash sizzle promo, than any of the other stuff Arrow has put out for promos in a long while. Im actually interested to see what they do while I wait for Arrow to get its shit together. It actually seemed fun and entertaining to watch. The plot though is messing with my head and the time jumping is getting hard to keep track of. Team Flash does not seem that eager for ATOM, but what can you do?

 

I hope though that Barry does not reset the entire time spectrum and that is how we get the new spinoff. Because if he does that and no one remembers what they learned over the last 9 months and I have to sit through Oliver's identity crisis again and Raylicity I will lose it. One season is more than enough of OQ Id crisis, since he can resolve the major issues in 2-3 episodes, he will always have to deal with the emotional side effects of it, but thats just life and he just needs to learn to deal.

[quarks]

I'm guessing a lot of the awkwardness at the Flash dinner in two weeks will be based on the problem that Felicity, Eddie and Barry definitely know Barry's secret; Ray might know Barry's secret; and Iris still won't know Barry's secret because Flash hates me. And in the reverse, Felicity definitely knows Ray's secret; Barry probably knows Ray's secret; and if Eddie does know Ray's secret, he's going to be royally pissed, and if Iris is lucky she'll find out the secret to how that restaurant cooks such perfect creme brulee.

[statsgirl]

I'd like that recipe.But only if I also knew all the secrets.

 

That dinner is starting to sound like one of the old IQ tests we used to have to take.

[Password]

No! I have to wait two weeks for Arrow?! I just want this season to be over.

[Morrigan2575]

If Nyssa saved Oliver instead of Sara, then Oliver would have no reason to know or help Barry.  And I don't see (although who knows) how there's much Barry could change that would make Oliver win the fight.  Also, does Ra's wear regular LOA clothes?  Maybe.  I'm going 80/20 non-AU Oliver at this point.  Occam's razor.  Non-AU Oliver is nearly certainly in the LOA at that point, and would help Barry.  

 

Kreisberg is overall more logical than Guggie, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that it will make sense.   

Not true at all.  Sara left the LoA after The Undertaking to check on her family, she stayed to protect them and because she couldn't deal with the killing.  She hated who she had become and pretty much hated herself, living in shadows.  

 

Nyssa saves Oliver, Oliver doesn't go on to become The Hood, doesn't try to stop the Undertaking.  Undertaking happens, Oliver hears about it and rushes home to check on his family and stays to watch over them becoming the mystery hero in black (just like Sara was in 201-204).  The Mirakuru plot would still happen which would bring Barry to town and Barry/Oliver work together forming a friendship/partnership that comes into play later when Barry needs help to stop Reverse Flash in 122.

 

It's extremely plausible and easily set up for time travel within the show.  Certainly more so than Martha Wayne becoming the Joker.

[AyChihuahua]

 

Not true at all.  Sara left the LoA after The Undertaking to check on her family, she stayed to protect them and because she couldn't deal with the killing.  She hated who she had become and pretty much hated herself, living in shadows.

Then why would he be fighting the Rogues, in Central City, in LOA garb?

[dtissagirl]

This is way more spec than anything, but I wanna play:

 

Barry doesn't have to affect the timeline for alternate realities to exist. The alternate realities are there already -- quantum theory says for every possible universe there's an infinite number of alternate realities, each diverging at every choice every person ever makes, like infinite forks in the road.

 

So maybe there's this alternate reality where Nyssa saved Oliver instead of Sara, and he's LoA. Or maybe it's a reality wherein Oliver accepted Ra's offer a few weeks ago, in that scene with Maseo.

 

In the Flashpoint comics, Barry accidentally breaches the time-space continuum, and shows up in this alt reality where Batman was Thomas Wayne instead of Bruce. He convinces Thomas he's from a different reality [Thomas is taken by Barry's friendship with Bruce], and they work together to help Barry go back to his original reality. Except it doesn't work like that and instead, Barry ends up in a third reality altogether.

 

If this is an alt!Oliver, then I'm guessing they'll put him in the Thomas Wayne role from the comics. And then I hope Barry manages to come back to his own reality, because I don't think these writers are anywhere competent enough to deal with him landing in a different one.

Edited April 1, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Morrigan2575]

Then why would he be fighting the Rogues, in Central City, in LOA garb?

Either option is easily plausible in AU theory, Oliver killed Ra's in 309 and became head of the LoA, he's still the Oliver we knew from 101-309 so he changed outfits but is still the same person.

Or Oliver/Nyssa scenario at the end of 223 Flashbacks, Oliver joins the LoA but runs away (just like Sara). Oliver stays in SC after Undertaking and becomes the city's protector. Last I looked, both Sara and Malcolm kept their LoA costumes even though they left the LoA. Also, the BTS photos from 320/321 show Nyssa still wearing her LoA garb and she left the LoA in 316.

However I think the most likely explanation is that 122 was supposed to preceed 322. How does that factor in with Oliver accepting Ra's offer in 321? I don't know, maybe Oliver doesn't accept, maybe Oliver/Nyssa stage a coup and they're in power by the end of 322 allowing Oliver to go to CC in 122 and help Barry out.

Yes, the scheduling screwed up the continuity but it's possible.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

Anything is possible, but some things are more likely than others.

[nksarmi]

What if it's real Oliver sent there by Ras to kill Reverse Flash/Harrison Wells?  Ras talked about replacing evil with death in one of his speeches and we know that Merlyn was marked for death because the Undertaking violated the league's code of honor. So what if, the events of Flash over the next few episodes leads to Ras deciding the league should take action and he sends Oliver as his assassin.

 

One interview I read said that they would explore what it meant to be an assassin this season.  And that Ras is not a typical villain.  And I think its clear that Ras does not consider his organization or himself evil - but a force for good (or at least order).  I think Oliver being there at behest of Ras is a possibility - him aligning with Barry and Firestorm while he is there is convenient.

[Chaser]

Is 3.18 the episode where Felicity stands up to someone unexpected? I'm guessing Lance or Maeso (Spell?). I'm hoping Maeso (Yeah. Pretty sure I'm not spelling that right).

 

I'm not even going to attempt to figure out the whole timeline. It's a Timey-Wimey thing. Thats all I need to know.

[Velocity23]

Oh you LOA soldiers! Trained so long and still cant handle an untrained LL.

[blixie]

Seriously, and where is Dig? At Starbucks grabbing a latte? Ugh. 

 

I guess now I know why they cast such a shitty shitty shitty Ras, so we'd all root for Oliver to replace him, by virtue of antipathy. I'd give anything not to see or more importantly hear Matt Nable as Ra's again.

[looptab]

Can I quote myself? I'll quote myself.

 how's Laurel fighting against LoA and not dying? Please...

 

What the hell have I just watched?!? :/

[nksarmi]

Oh you LOA soldiers! Trained so long and still cant handle an untrained LL.

Maybe a week with Nyssa is like a year with any other trainer. :)

 

Seriously though - I think we can give the Laurel training stuff a rest now that she is training with Nyssa.  It's easy enough to buy that a woman who had self-defense training from a cop, boxed with WildCat for an indeterminate amount of time (I would say a couple of months), has at least some field experience with Roy, and trained even a marginal amount of time with Nyssa could at least stay alive against a low-level LoA member.  For that matter, Nyssa might have specifically spent the last couple of weeks training her in how to fight LoA.

 

If Laurel spends a summer with Nyssa - I'm willing to lay off all the Laurel needs training crap altogether and allow the writers to just make her badass BC already.  Of course, this is a YMMV thing, but all I've ever wanted was to know Laurel was being trained by someone with some skills offscreen to buy into what I'm seeing onscreen from her.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2015 by nksarmi

[Velocity23]

But doesnt 3x18 continue where 3x17 left off?

Edited April 1, 2015 by Velocity23

[lexicon]

Oh you LOA soldiers! Trained so long and still cant handle an untrained LL.

 

That LL she just gets knocked down and keeps getting right back up (barf). I swear the amount of times I've seen that cited to describe her rise to becoming BC, it's ridiculous. Surely it takes more than that to become a hero. I can't believe that any BC fans are happy with this portrayal of her.

 

Right now, she's simply a liability in the field that's allowed to suit up because she has a costume and she really really wants to, yet she somehow inexplicably will be taking on the LOA. What kind of legendary assassins are they of they can't take someone with her current level of skill out? Oh right, they're the kind that will disavow killing if Ra's Ollie Ghul requires it. No wonder we can't take them seriously.

[nksarmi]

But doesnt 3x18 continue where 3x17 left off?

I was thinking the period of time that passed between 16 and the wedding in 17, which could have been a week or more.  I also think there was supposed to be a week in between 17 and 18 for the Felicity/Ray cross-over but they have done away with that (I can only assume the cross over now follows 318 in continuity or I can't make this stuff make sense in my head lol).

[wonderwall]

Never has a fight sequence been so god damn boring. 

 

And once again Diggle is sidelined for Laurel who apparently after a week of training can take on the LoA! Her fighting a member of the LoA just makes the LoA look god damn incompetent that I can't even take them seriously. 

 

Ridiculous.

[steeledwithakiss]

I usually just read the comments but what's happening is getting so ridiculous I need to vent. I feel like if I want to still enjoy the show I'll have to ffw all the fight scenes from now on, because I'm supposed to accept LL is competent and Diggle should stay at the lair watering the fern because he doesn't have a mask and a stupid code name, so he can't fight with the grown ups.

 

As for the crossover I think Flash 1x18 is supposed to be between Arrow 3x17 and 3x18, otherwise it would look very bad : Felicity introducing Ray and his supersuit to Team Flash and not telling her own team, as well as Felicity wasn't aware in 3x17 that the supersuit was ready. It just doesn't flow with what's going on on Arrow, because they ended 3x17 on a cliffhanger. Still it has to be before 3x18 because I'm guessing it ends with Oliver or in jail or a fugitive and Felicity wouldn't pop up in Central City with her new boyfriend all happy if it is so.

[SonofaBiscuit]

"Clearly I chose well selecting you as my heir."  Didn't they just tell us about this prophecy that says that the man who doesn't perish at the blade of Ra's al Ghul becomes Ra's al Ghul?  Ra's didn't choose Oliver...Oliver is next in line only because he survived, right?  They do this all of the time, it seriously bugs!

[Carrie Ann]

As for the crossover I think Flash 1x18 is supposed to be between Arrow 3x17 and 3x18, otherwise it would look very bad : Felicity introducing Ray and his supersuit to Team Flash and not telling her own team, as well as Felicity wasn't aware in 3x17 that the supersuit was ready. It just doesn't flow with what's going on on Arrow, because they ended 3x17 on a cliffhanger. Still it has to be before 3x18 because I'm guessing it ends with Oliver or in jail or a fugitive and Felicity wouldn't pop up in Central City with her new boyfriend all happy if it is so.

 

I honestly think MG mis-typed when he responded to that question earlier this week to say that F118 comes before A318. They obviously had to adjust their storylines to make things fit, and yes, it seems like 318 is going to pick up immediately following 317's assassination of the Mayor. I suspect that originally, Ray was going to be injured in CC, or on their return instead. That's why the mayor's office thing seemed so tacked on to 317. Or if the mayor thing was going to happen, then obviously Ray wasn't going to be injured in it, but would have to have been seriously injured by 318.

 

So, technically, I think the 317-318-118-319 episodes will flow from each other, but character-wise, I think it might feel off. Like, I think Felicity will develop doubts in 318 regarding her feelings for Ray vs Oliver but I don't expect to see any of that in F118. (Or not much, beyond a little comment from Barry or something.) And while it might seem off for her to leave town and have a fun time in CC while Oliver is in jail or exile or whatever, well, he'll probably tell her to go to stay under the radar for a few days or something. And then we'll come back to the right order for 319 and "different approaches" and all that.

[AyChihuahua]

"Ra's didn't choose Oliver...Oliver is next in line only because he survived, right? They do this all of the time, it seriously bugs!"

Forget what happened anywhere from five minutes to a couple episodes prior, you mean? That is part of the reason I had to quit watching.

"And while it might seem off for her to leave town and have a fun time in CC while Oliver is in jail or exile or whatever, well, he'll probably tell her to go to stay under the radar for a few days or something."

If Oliver is in jail and she goes la-di-daing to CC with her boyfriend and has actual fun, isn't nervous and anxious, they will have destroyed her for anyone who watches both shows and hasn't been following all these network shenanigans. Hopefully if he is in jail they somehow make it clear that the episodes aren't in the right order. (Flash: "One week ago...")

Edited April 1, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[tarotx]

Well Ra gave Oliver a chance by pushing him off the cliff and not burning his body or whatnot :p

Edited April 1, 2015 by tarotx

[Starfish35]

I'm supposed to accept LL is competent and Diggle should stay at the lair watering the fern because he doesn't have a mask and a stupid code name, so he can't fight with the grown ups.

Yes this is so infuriatingly stupid. They've got to fix this somehow.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Starfish35

[steeledwithakiss]

I honestly think MG mis-typed when he responded to that question earlier this week to say that F118 comes before A318. They obviously had to adjust their storylines to make things fit, and yes, it seems like 318 is going to pick up immediately following 317's assassination of the Mayor. I suspect that originally, Ray was going to be injured in CC, or on their return instead. That's why the mayor's office thing seemed so tacked on to 317. Or if the mayor thing was going to happen, then obviously Ray wasn't going to be injured in it, but would have to have been seriously injured by 318.

 

So, technically, I think the 317-318-118-319 episodes will flow from each other, but character-wise, I think it might feel off. Like, I think Felicity will develop doubts in 318 regarding her feelings for Ray vs Oliver but I don't expect to see any of that in F118. (Or not much, beyond a little comment from Barry or something.) And while it might seem off for her to leave town and have a fun time in CC while Oliver is in jail or exile or whatever, well, he'll probably tell her to go to stay under the radar for a few days or something. And then we'll come back to the right order for 319 and "different approaches" and all that.

I could get behind her trying to get away from what's happening in SC but Barry, well and everyone on TF, would ask her about Oliver, I mean it's on the news. So I'll be waiting for 1x18, but if no one makes a comment about Oliver being in jail or running from the law, I'll assume it was supposed to be before Public enemy. And if R/F break up in 3x18 (hey a girl can dream right), we'll definitely know the time line was all screwed up.