Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Ariah]

But... didn't Thea have that brush with Law and Order when she drove under the influence?

 

Or is it not listed as a felony?...

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, I honestly can't remember what the result of that DUI was. I know she was over 18 when it happened, and that she got out of jailtime and had to do community service at CNRI for it instead. But I don't remember what that means w/r/t it being on her record or what the ultimate charge was.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[apinknightmare]

But... didn't Thea have that brush with Law and Order when she drove under the influence?

 

Or is it not listed as a felony?...

 

It's usually a misdemeanor depending on the circumstances and how many you've had. She was a first-time offender though, wasn't she? I can't remember how she was charged though. 

[Morrigan2575]

So, re: the new clip.

Felicity made sure to say that SCPD has a database of genetic markers on anyone who's committed a felony within the past three years - that's why Thea's not going to show up in her search. Although why she'd search SCPD instead of ARGUS when the person who killed her was most likely affiliated with the League and not local, I don't know...YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU KNOW WHAT, NOT GOING TO TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT

Also, regarding the headline on Felicity's computer - why would there be a newspaper article about a blur attacking S.T.A.R. Labs - I thought they had a souper seekrit squirrel operation going on there? How would anyone find out about an attack, much less write an article about it?

Sad but I'm more interested in that Flash spoiler then anything else. Way to go CW (insert eye roll here)

[Carrie Ann]

Like a crazy person, I just checked out the relevant scenes from that episode (Vertigo, S1), and they never specify the charges. Just that they got it down from prison time to 500 hrs community service and two years of probation, plus she lost her license. So...no answers.

[ban1o]

Lol I love how a sneak peek for arrow has flash spoilers. Good job CW marketing department

Yeah I don't know if Thea would show up on it. She had just turned 18, right?

Edited December 9, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

Lol I love how a sneak peek for arrow has flash spoilers. Good job CW marketing department

Yeah I don't know if Thea would show up on it. She had just turned 18, right?

 

Yeah, it was on her birthday IIRC. I guess it doesn't matter since they never specified if she was being charged with a felony or not, so there's an out.

[Guest]

Lol that dialogue tease, MG made sure to tell everyone it was Felicity talking to Oliver because of course he did. Troll. Guggentroll. 

[SleepDeprived]

So, the DNA on the arrow that killed Sara was definitely a frame-up job to point to only Oliver, right? It just can't be Thea, godsdamnit, show!

 

Regardless of whether or not Thea's DNA would be present for comparison in the SCPD database, the very basic determination that any genome marker is able to do, as has been said here already, is to distinguish between the X and Y chromosomes (unless Thea has Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome then, okay, that's a whole other issue but, at least, she would have that Y chromosome, too, which would actually be coming from the Merlyn side and not the Queen side but I digress). Therefore, that reassembled genome that Caitlin sent to Felicity, with that "Positive Match" to Oliver on her computer, can't be bait-and-switched to a female half-sibling who, in all likelihood, would actually only share about 1/4 of his DNA. This is actual science, Arrow writers. Not Mirakuru-science. Ugh. I guess I'll need to turn off my brain if the show is going to insist on Thea as a possible suspect tomorrow then, huh?

 

I hope we're all wrong and the show doesn't even allude to Thea as a suspect because of that DNA tomorrow. They can say it's Thea using other evidence from the murder mystery (like the weird trajectory of the arrow or whatever else) but not the DNA. I'd like to think the show actually, sometimes, uses logic and does research than merely basing storylines on 'ooh, let's do this because shocking twist!'

[DrSpaceman10]

But what if the DNA was degraded and you couldn't tell if it had an X or Y chromosome? If only part of the DNA remained intact, those markers might look like Oliver's (since as far as we know, he's the only Queen in the SCPD database) even if they were actually Thea's. 

 

*I know nothing about science-y stuff

[Morrigan2575]

I doubt this or any non CSI type show would pay much attention to DNA Science. Drama/Shock would trump real science especially, since most people wouldn't know.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[DrSpaceman10]

I doubt this or any show would pay thank much attention to DNA Science. Drama/Shock would trump real science especially since most people wouldn't know.

 

You're probably right. I think I've thought about it more than the writers have.

[Morrigan2575]

You're probably right. I think I've thought about it more than the writers have.

That's a given in fandom.

[blixie]

 

This is actual science, Arrow writers. Not Mirakuru-science. Ugh.

 

 

I hope we're all wrong and the show doesn't even allude to Thea as a suspect because of that DNA tomorrow. They can say it's Thea using other evidence from the murder mystery (like the weird trajectory of the arrow or whatever else) but not the DNA.

 

Oliver's mental deficiencies are RIGHT THERE, use them! 

[apinknightmare]

Caitlin said she had a computer that could fill in the gaps in the degraded markers, so maybe the computer was wrong? IDK, trying to work with what the show has given us.

[apinknightmare]

 

“That’s a tricky scene to write because the traditional version is she says, ‘Don’t go, don’t you love me?'” he says. “The challenge of that scene is, how do we come up with a way of doing the scene that’s realistic and true to the characters, but at the same time is a bit surprising and is unexpected and not the cliche that you’re anticipating? I think we came up with something in that scene that is very unexpected. It’s intentionally out of character, but I think very much in line with her emotions.”

 

Lord, beer me strength.

 

I guess she must ask him not to go? Because that would be out of character for her.

[Guest]

Intentionally out of character?! Huh?! What the hell does that mean? I don't know if I like the sound of that. 

 

I'm going to need vodka for this, aren't I?

[apinknightmare]

Intentionally out of character?! Huh?! What the hell does that mean? I don't know if I like the sound of that. 

 

I'm going to need vodka for this, aren't I?

 

I think asking him not to go would be out of character for her (but in line with her emotions, because she loves him and doesn't want him dead). At least I'm hoping it's something like that. 

[Morrigan2575]

Something that's true to the character but, intentionally out of character. WTF?

ETA: but, not not :p

Edited December 10, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[ban1o]

So  I posted a  link for "Inside Arrow The Climb" and Guggenheim describes Matt Nable as a "force of nature" lol.

 

Anyway he said that the episode has "one of the biggest surprise ending [they] have ever done on the show" 

Edited December 10, 2014 by ban1o

[blixie]

I'll give them this re: Nable, he definitely sounded better, he's still not physically what I envision, but maybe he can sell it. 

[JJ928]

Maybe she tells him to let go of his humanity for his fight with Ra's? To do whatever it takes to come back alive. I know it wouldn't be totally OOC for her, since last season she told him to do whatever necessary to get back Thea. However, she's been in the no kill corner this season. I'm excited for tomorrows episode & I try not to take any Natalie Abrams interview seriously. 

Edited December 10, 2014 by JJ928

[ban1o]

I'll give them this re: Nable, he definitely sounded better, he's still not physically what I envision, but maybe he can sell it. 

yeah he sounds better than he did in the Magician. I'll wait until the episode to judge. but the EP's over seel everything so I'm not holding my breath for a force of nature. 

 

I really wonder what the shock ending is. Hopefully it's not dumb like "Oliver gets captured by the league" which pretty much everyone suspects. 

Edited December 10, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

I won't mind OOC behavior from Felicity, I don't think. I imagine she'll be feeling pretty desperate. 

[Guest]

I think asking him not to go would be out of character for her (but in line with her emotions, because she loves him and doesn't want him dead). At least I'm hoping it's something like that. 

 

I don't know if that would be that OOC. There was an episode in late s2 when Oliver had to go find Slade's bio-transfuser (I think?!) and Felicity said something like 'Don't hate me for saying this but please don't go.' So I feel like she might say that if she's pushed to her limits. I honestly don't know if that makes it OOC but in line with her emotions. I'm confused. Lol.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I really wonder what the shock ending is. Hopefully it's not dumb like "Oliver gets captured like the league" which pretty much everyone suspects. 

 

Ugh, it's probably the "literal cliffhanger" with Oliver dangling off the mountain, his grip slipping from whatever he's holding onto.  So not looking forward to that. 

[Orion]

I took the intentionally of character to mean she says something that isn't true.

 

 And when I combine that thought with this quote from the article “There’s a very specific scene between Oliver and Felicity about his humanity and how that potentially is a liability in his duel with Ra’s,” she's going to say something that cuts ties between them because she's afraid she'll continue to be a distraction to Oliver when he needs to focus to survive. And then we'll get a scene where she explains to Diggle what and why she said it so the audience knows it's a lie.

 

Hoping I'm wrong and also reminding myself that Natalie Abrams is more than likely wrong anyway.

[Morrigan2575]

Ugh, it's probably the "literal cliffhanger" with Oliver dangling off the mountain, his grip slipping from whatever he's holding onto.  So not looking forward to that.

Oh nooosss, Oliver is going to die?!

[ban1o]

Ugh, it's probably the "literal cliffhanger" with Oliver dangling off the mountain, his grip slipping from whatever he's holding onto.  So not looking forward to that. 

uggh this is probably it lol.  Oh no! Will Oliver die or not? The suspense! Tune in next month! 

Edited December 10, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

I took the intentionally of character to mean she says something that isn't true.

And when I combine that thought with this quote from the article “There’s a very specific scene between Oliver and Felicity about his humanity and how that potentially is a liability in his duel with Ra’s,” she's going to say something that cuts ties between them because she's afraid she'll continue to be a distraction to Oliver when he needs to focus to survive. And then we'll get a scene where she explains to Diggle what and why she said it so the audience knows it's a lie.

Hoping I'm wrong and also reminding myself that Natalie Abrams is more than likely wrong anyway.

Yeah, this sounds about right.

[Guest]

How is this scene the greatest Olicity ever though? How is this a 9 if she lies to him or maybe cuts ties?! I was promised a 9 and that means good things right?! Hahaha, I need to stop reading EP interviews omg. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

Sad thing is, there are probably people who will actually believe that he's dead. The viewing audience ain't always so bright.

 

 And when I combine that thought with this quote from the article “There’s a very specific scene between Oliver and Felicity about his humanity and how that potentially is a liability in his duel with Ra’s,” she's going to say something that cuts ties between them because she's afraid she'll continue to be a distraction to Oliver when he needs to focus to survive. And then we'll get a scene where she explains to Diggle what and why she said it so the audience knows it's a lie.

 

Nah, I don't think that will happen.  SA described this episode as including "the greatest Oliver/Felicity scene we've ever had."  I think it will be something very positive for their relationship.

[Chaser]

Reading that quote about Oliver and Felicity, I had a flashback to a scene in Angel between Angel and Buffy. It was from 'I Will Remember You' and they have a really emotional goodbye and she is desperate and willing to damn others so they could be together. She eventually comes around there are tears and pain, but its a great scene. I wouldn't mind a scene like that.

 

Ra's does come across better in that clip. *crosses-fingers*

Edited December 10, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[Sunshine]

Maybe her first inclination is to lash out and tell him to go ahead and commit suicide since he's so intent on dying. I think that would be OOC for her. It could also lead to the "greatest Olicity scene" assuming he recognizes her anger for what it really is...fear.

[apinknightmare]

How is this scene the greatest Olicity ever though? How is this a 9 if she lies to him or maybe cuts ties?! I was promised a 9 and that means good things right?! Hahaha, I need to stop reading EP interviews omg. 

 

Haha, I'm just trying to freaking prepare myself for disappointment. I mean, we could technically get a nine at another time and then have things left on a down note. It doesn't all have to be one scene. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

Surely they have to give us some reason to return in January, right?  If I leave this episode thinking Oliver is "dead", have no Olicity to look forward to when the season resumes, but have the promises of Buckle suiting up, I'm not sure that I could even be bothered to tune in after the break. 

[Guest]

Haha, I'm just trying to freaking prepare myself for disappointment. I mean, we could technically get a nine at another time and then have things left on a down note. It doesn't all have to be one scene. 

 

Stop, stop this! You're hurting me. I need a good Olicity scene if I'm to survive until February without them. JFC. 

Edited December 10, 2014 by Guest

[strikera0]

Maybe Felicity will tell Oliver that he needs to kill Ra's?

[Guest]

I also don't see Felicity telling him to kill Ra's that OOC either. When Slade kidnapped Thea, Felicity was the one who told Oliver to go and find him and end things. "Do whatever it takes," she said, which is a huge gray area of what she intended. I feel like the suggestion to kill was there, just not said so explicitly. I know Felicity usually thinks there's another way but if it comes down to Oliver or Ra's, I don't doubt she'd be like 'End this!'

[apinknightmare]

I think the only truly OOC thing she could do is lie to him. I mean, she took a chance that he would hate her in order to not keep a secret from him. She's told him to "do whatever it takes" before, so that wouldn't be new. Unless the people who run the show forgot she did that, which is always a possibility.

[Carrie Ann]

I wouldn't be surprised if they did forget, because honestly, a lot of fandom seems to forget it. And truth be told, that "Go. Get Thea. Do whatever it takes." scene struck me as weird at the time. Like it seemed like Sara and Felicity switched dialogue in that scene. Now I like that she was like that--I like that her morality isn't so black-and-white. But a lot of people--I think including the writers sometimes--want her to only be the "light."

 

As far as the scene, I agree with @apinknightmare that the only thing that would really shock me is if she lied to him in some way, but trying to convince him to turn away from his humanity would surprise me too.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[calliope1975]

Sometimes I feel like the TPTB don't really know Felicity, and I would argue that almost of the characters have been written OOC (which I bet the writers would disagree with) so I am thoroughly confused at what this could mean. 

[Password]

I don't know what she could do that would be OOC because I actually didn't view that "do whatever it takes" as OOC. Felicity runs on emotion, and even though her brain ticks at 5 miles a minute, she sees situations and judges them by heart. She could see Slade was destroying Oliver, so she told him to handle it. If anything, the fact that Felicity told him that really upped the ante for me because normally she'd say "find another way". It really made me see how dire the situation was.

I'm far more concerned how the Olicity scene will affect the long term of their relationship after he returns. I know some have speculated she'll see it as Oliver abandoning her again and be mad at him, so I'm actually not ruling that out because to me, that'd be OOC.

But I'm SUPER excited to see what SA and EBR have to sell to us. I'm not ruling out a massively looooooong kiss. Maybe she TRIES to seduce him to stay. That'd be a WTF moment, but again I don't think I'd view it too much as OOC. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and she DOES love him.

[wonderwall]

I wouldn't be surprised if they did forget, because honestly, a lot of fandom seems to forget it. And truth be told, that "Go. Get Thea. Do whatever it takes." scene struck me as weird at the time. Like it seemed like Sara and Felicity switched dialogue in that scene. Now I like that she was like that--I like that her morality isn't so black-and-white. But a lot of people--I think including the writers sometimes--want her to only be the "light."

 

I never considered Felicity to be the 'light' herself, nor for her to be the light to anyone else by being what Laurel was supposed to be (a good-doer who does no wrong). Felicity is as morally gray as any of the other characters. Yes, she holds herself to a higher standard and she holds the Arrow to a higher standard, but that doesn't mean she won't be willing to do whatever it takes. I don't even think that the writers wanted Felicity to only be the light because she has to break the law constantly in order to achieve the greater good. That's what makes her such a fantastic character. However, Felicity being morally grey doesn't at all impact the fact that she's still one of the only few people on this show who can harness Oliver's light. You can be a bad person (not that Felicity is a bad person) yet still bring out the best in people. 

[apinknightmare]

In order to equate something like this to a possible nine, maybe we have the discussion about his humanity, and Felicity encouraging him to forget about his humanity, just...leave his soul behind so he can go off and win no matter what the cost, because she wants him alive more than anything. And then he says something swoon-worthy like he can't let go of that part of him, because that's what lets him love her or loving her keeps that part of him alive and he can't stop or whatever, and that he's going to go and win and I'm going to stop this train of thought right now. 

 

I'll bet after I watch that scene tomorrow I won't feel like she's done anything OOC, haha.

[Guest]

It's that damn 'OOC' quote that's getting to me. I'm gonna have to ignore it otherwise it will just annoy me because aside from how she was in 307 with Ray, I've never felt like Felicity was OOC. Sometimes she runs with her emotions and says things you might not expect but they never felt out of character.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Guest

[Chaser]

So maybe by trying to write her intentionally out of character, they end up nailing her character perfectly?

 

A lot has been made of tying Oliver's humanity to Felicity, it wouldn't surprise me if they have an emotional Felicity going a little bloodthirsty to shock the audience. Or they may have Felicity encouraging him to runaway (which would be a about-face from the 'You are not done fighting'). I would be okay with either one of these, and I can see them both happening, but I do want Oliver to see that Felicity is terrified. I want their parting to be honest and tender. 

[wonderwall]

Felicity will tell Oliver to go kill Ra's and then Laurel will come up to him and tell him that he's better than that :p 

 

 

Ahhhhhh I crack myself up! 

Edited December 10, 2014 by wonderwall

[Carrie Ann]

I don't even think that the writers wanted Felicity to only be the light because she has to break the law constantly in order to achieve the greater good. That's what makes her such a fantastic character. However, Felicity being morally grey doesn't at all impact the fact that she's still one of the only few people on this show who can harness Oliver's light. You can be a bad person (not that Felicity is a bad person) yet still bring out the best in people. 

 

My initial post was to say that there ARE people in the fandom who tend to forget that sometimes Felicity has encouraged Oliver to kill or use violence. Glad you don't! I didn't mean to imply that I think Felicity's a "bad person," or that she doesn't "harness Oliver's light." My point was that I wouldn't be surprised if she encouraged him to kill Ra's al Ghul, OR if the writers saw that as OOC because they forgot that she does this sometimes.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Carrie Ann

[wonderwall]

My initial post was to say that there ARE people in the fandom who tend to forget that sometimes Felicity has encouraged Oliver to kill or use violence. I didn't say you were one of those people, and I certainly didn't mean to imply that I think she's a "bad person," or that she doesn't "harness Oliver's light." My point was that I wouldn't be surprised if she encouraged him to kill Ra's al Ghul, OR if the writers saw that as OOC because they forgot that she does this sometimes.

ah, sorry I didn't catch that. There will always be some people who try to find faults in characters that aren't even there. Like saying how Felicity is a mary-sue with no depth or flaws. It's a reaching criticism and totally based on bias.