Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

Yes, the show can play it that the characters think Oliver is dead but if they attempt to try and convince the audience that Oliver is dead, that's another story.

 

If they're not trying to convince the audience, then why not show him being alive somewhere for our benefit while everyone in the show thinks he's dead? What I meant was that I don't think anyone will really believe it, regardless of what the show is trying to sell. That's why I think they'd be comfortable trying to sell it while using the screen time that Oliver would take up to set up Laurel and whoever else's stories while we wait, knowing Oliver will eventually be back.

Edited November 21, 2014 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

Just wait until Oliver joins the League and turns Nyssa straight with the power of his penis. I can't imagine these writers will want to pass up completely on the Daughter/Son of the Demon stories.

 

Don't even put that out into the universe, Danny Franks! It was bad enough they refused to say Sara was bisexual.

 

Now if a Talia/Miranda shows up, I fear they won't be able to resist ripping off the Nolanverse some more. 

Edited November 21, 2014 by calliope1975

[Soulfire]

I'm not sure they're going to have Oliver be "dead" again to Starling City at the end of 3x09.

 

Maybe "gone missing" is the route they're going for instead? He's already been believed dead before s1. He wasn't technically missing between s1 and s2; people think he was traveling Europe.

 

If there's a goodbye scene between Oliver and Felicity before he goes to the meeting with Ra's... Oliver wouldn't be sure he's coming back. And Ra's could demand they leave immediately after the meeting. Hence, the team would know he's gone with Ra's, but to the world, he's missing. Team Arrow might still think Ra's killed him, but I'd like to believe Oliver gets through to them, somehow, so they knew he's not dead before the end of 3x09. That way Team Arrow would know Oliver's not dead and to the rest of the world he's gone missing.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Soulfire

[statsgirl]

When Guggenheim said we'd know who killed Sara 'by the end of the year', I think he meant by the end of the TV year, meaning this season. Otherwise it doesn't make sense, to kill her for just 8 episodes of who dunnit.

 

The problem, I think, with having a story where Oliver is presumed dead (again) in present day is that the audience KNOWS he's not. So we're just going to watch the teams in SC and possibly CC spin their wheels, grieve and struggle.  Word to the show: that's not interesting when the audience is in on what's really going on.

I think that's why they can do it, though.  The audience knows he's not dead but they're wondering what could have happened to him, and watching his friends try to find him, worrying that he really is dead.

 

What I can't understand though is why would you want the titular character of  your show to be absent for almost three episodes in only the show's third year?  It's too soon to be bored with him (that comes in season 5 or more) and if it's to provide the space for Laurel to become BC, that's a bone-headed maneuver.  

 

 

I'm going to guess that if Felicity is looking for Oliver then Ray will in someway be helping her maybe without knowing who she is looking  for just that she is looking for someone. The writers will use that as an excuse to grow Ray and Felicity as friends without the romantic beats since Oliver will not be around to react to them, Oliver will return and Felicity will be happy he's back but hurt that he walked away after whatever conversation they have in 3X09 that is so heart breaking. As much as I don't want Ray and Felicity together if the writers are going to give her a real love interest this is their one shot to do it because once they pull the trigger on Olicity they can't have one of them go be with someone else. So I do think Ray and Felicity will be a "real" relationship. Oliver comes back with over 10 episodes before the finale.  In the writers stupid opinions they will want to wait for the finale.

I think this show only gives Oliver's women real alternative love interests when they want to take them off the table and they're not going evil (Helena, Isabel).  McKenna left town, Sara broke up with him and left town to go back to Nyssa. Only Laurel got another real love interest on the show; Barry/Felicity didn't even get out of the starting blocks.  I have little doubt they'll continue to keep Oliver and Felicity apart but I hope they'll come up with another reason (Felicity's abandonment issues on top of Oliver leaving?).

 

I agree, Diggle will be suiting up pretending to be the Arrow.  But with those muscles, he'll have to get his own costume.  (I wonder if he already has one, just for emergencies).

Edited November 21, 2014 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

When Guggenheim said we'd know who killed Sara 'by the end of the year', I think he meant by the end of the TV year,

 

This was my thought as well. 

[Belinea]

Well, maybe it is better if they take their time until May. The might find a way to make the 'mystery' interesting. Because so far I don't really care. I am upset, yes, but I don't care for the murder hunt. There is no suspense (for me)

Edited November 21, 2014 by Belinea

[Chaser]

They use the flashbacks to parallel current events right? Are they going to try and compare Laurel's journey with Oliver's?

 

If Oliver is with the LOA, I want to see it. I don't want to hear about it later.

[DrSpaceman10]

I remember reading on twitter that SA was filming scenes with Karl Yune (Maseo) and Kelly Hu (China White) during episode 11. So, I think Oliver's flashbacks will still be to Hong Kong.

Edited November 21, 2014 by drspaceman10

[Chaser]

I guess I'm trying to figure out the point of the flashbacks. Typically, they relate to something that a character is going through in present time. But with Oliver gone...

[BumpSetSpike]

 

What I can't understand though is why would you want the titular character of  your show to be absent for almost three episodes in only the show's third year?  It's too soon to be bored with him (that comes in season 5 or more) and if it's to provide the space for Laurel to become BC, that's a bone-headed maneuver.

Oh god no - if SA "missing" is to focus on Laurel, I'm truly done with this mess of a season.  I keep wanting to trust SA when he says to give it time.  I'm just losing patience with TPTB's infatuation with Laurel.

[Genki]

I can't work out a scenario where Oliver is missing for 2/3 episodes and the audience wouldn't want to see what was happening to him.

 

He is off with he league

He is stuck on the side of a mountain trying to get back to civilisation

He is in a coma...breaks the no present day scenes rule and would want to see Felicity and Diggle talking to him about their days

 

They could do something weird and show Oliver's perspective, but not Oliver himself...

 

Or 1 episode focus on someone else (like when they introduced Desmond on Lost) but A it would have to be someone the audience is interested in like Slade, (don't think Laurel or Ray cut it) or shocking, like resurrected Tommy.

 

I'm warming up to the flashback but only as a compliment to Oliver present day journey

 

Side note: I remember during one of Stephen's Q&As he said he would really like to direct and episode but it wouldn't be possible in this season because it would mean him being barely in the show for 3 episodes. 1 to prepare, one to direct and 1 to edit.

 

I would like it if this was the scenario because I would be really interested in his vision of the show.

[Guest]

I am really bored of the Sara murder mystery so far so I actually hope we know who did it soon. There's not enough dramatic tension dropping a clue every other episode. It's ridiculous. 

 

 

I guess I'm trying to figure out the point of the flashbacks. Typically, they relate to something that a character is going through in present time. But with Oliver gone...

 

That's how I feel. Oliver's flashbacks usually link/relate to something happening to Oliver in the present timeline. So it just doesn't make sense for him to be in flashback at all tbh. I think they're making a huge mistake. Sometimes a show needs to make a calculated risk but not in an already shaky third season.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Guest

[wonderwall]

I agree, there's not enough dramatic tension from Sara's murder. I mean, there's no sense of urgency in finding the killer. Sara's already dead, so what does it matter if the team finds her killer tomorrow as opposed to a year from now? I mean the only thing they will gain from finding that person is closure and that's just so anti-climactic. I still feel like if Sara was taken instead of murdered there would be higher stakes involved. The higher stakes being Sara not being murdered. Alas, she's already dead so there aren't really any high stakes. Ugh it's annoying that Sara's death is being treated so callously. I tend to believe that if the writers want to kill off a generally loved character, then they need a plan, and they need to execute it properly. They haven't done that with Sara. And it's just so god damn sad. 

[Chaser]

Removing the lead character and allowing the supporting acts to carry the wieght can be fun (i.e. Supernatural(Bobby)/Angel(Cordy, Wesley, Gunn)). But I feel it has to be done in small doses; Three episodes feels like a long time. You also need to have the right supporting cast.IMO Arrow's cast is very uneven. You have the strong players (Diggle/Felicity) and you have the weaker ones (Laurel/Roy). Thea is middle of the road, but I would put her closer to stength because of Willa Holland.

 

If they can spread the love around and make sure Oliver is still felt, it may be successful. However, I feel they are going to use this time to put Laurel thru the ringer. I don't think Laurel can carry the weight.

[apinknightmare]

Well, if that leaked information in the SPOILERS ONLY thread is true and Thea did kill Sara, I guess Oliver doesn't give himself up to Ra's to save her from punishment (since the spoiler said the scenes where Oliver finds out it's her are being shot now). I guess he gives himself up for the city, like the ep summary suggests?

 

Bleh, Thea.

Edited November 22, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

Damn. If it is true, what the hell did Daddy Merlyn do to her?! Thea went from being angry that everyone was lying to her to being a cold blooded killer. Whaaaat?

 

Who leaked this?!

[Pyramid]

Does anyone actually care who killed Sara? I mean really? For me the who doesn't matter because of the(meta) why.

[wonderwall]

Thea being the killer isn't really shocking at all. She was the first person people actually thought killed Sara. lmao I just hope that the emotional stakes are high in the second half of the season if this is true. 

[apinknightmare]

Does anyone actually care who killed Sara? I mean really? For me the who doesn't matter because of the(meta) why.

 

The only reason I like it (if it is true) is because it will potentially make the Oliver and Laurel dynamic interesting as hell IMO. Unless they have her drop her vengeful crusade, which...yeah, I really hope they don't do that.

Edited November 22, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

Does anyone actually care who killed Sara? I mean really? For me the who doesn't matter because of the(meta) why.

 

No. It never mattered because it was always to make Laurel BC. 

 

Thea being the killer isn't really shocking at all. She was the first person people actually thought killed Sara. lmao I just hope that the emotional stakes are high in the second half of the season if this is true. 

 

Yeah, I remember someone recorded the voice that said 'Hello Sara' and it sounded like Thea when they played it back or something. 

 

If it is Thea, it does up the emotional stakes. Oliver is going to find out she was with Malcolm this whole time and then Laurel is going to freak out because she's known Thea her whole life and how could she do that to her? And then there's how Oliver and Laurel will react to each other. There's a lot to go on.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Guest

[Genki]

Thea being a killer is just a big WTF to me, there is no organic build up character-wise for this to happen.

 

Meta reasons...even those aren't strong. Also I thought Stephen said Thea wouldn't go dark.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Genki

[Morrigan2575]

I call BS on turning Thea into a stone cold killer, one that would lie/betray her friends and family without remorse. I also call BS on the potential oh she was brain washed into doing it.

[apinknightmare]

I call BS on turning Thea into a stone cold killer, one that would lie/betray her friends and family without remorse. I also call BS on the potential oh she was brain washed into doing it.

 

Maybe she's being framed for it? Isn't 2x13 still too early to find out if they intend to take it to the end of the season (or even close to the end of the season)?

[wonderwall]

Maybe Thea did it in order to make Laurel relevant to the back half of the season lol It's no secret the writers are willing to throw characters into the trash in order to make laurel relevant. Like @apinknightmare said, it would actually make her relationship with Oliver interesting for once. 

Edited November 22, 2014 by wonderwall

[Morrigan2575]

Maybe Thea did it in order to make Laurel relevant to the back half of the season lol It's no secret the writers are willing to throw characters into the trash in order to make laurel relevant.

The sad thing is all of this was just to make Laurel BC nothing else makes sense and non of it is organic.

Thea leaving because she wanted to be stronger and not hurt by her family/friends lying to her doesn't equate to becoming a stone cold killer.

This means Thea killed a women she knew, her brother's friend/girlfriend. A woman who was the younger sister of someone Thea called a friend. Thea killed Sara then pretends like nothing happened, shows no remorse or sorrow. She invites Oliver to live with her, all the while knowing she killed Sara andit means nothing.

That's just BS, total lame ass, lazy plot twist that these dumbasses will proclaim as creative and "what a twist"

[Starfish35]

I'm not sure what the source for that spoiler was - I didn't see a link in that article that was posted. But to me it really doesn't sound legit, unlike the spoiler we got last season about Moira's death.

The user claimed that they are shooting the scenes right now where Oliver Queen finds out that Thea killed Sara.

Last I'd heard, SA wasn't even back on set yet? So how could this be true? I mean, I'm not putting it beyond these EPs to think this might be an awesome twist, but something about this doesn't ring true for me. I guess we'll see though.

[Morrigan2575]

SA is back in Vancouver, he got back yesterday.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

Thea was the first thought for many so it really wouldn't be shocking. She is also the only one that fits into their shaky box of forensics. If she is the killer, does Sara's reaction make any sense? She wouldn't be scared but she would be shocked. She didn't seem shocked. I would just call it a little surprised.

 

Making Thea the killer is really problematic. Laurel wouldn't get her vengeance (and therefore neither would the audience) because Oliver would never allow Laurel to go after Thea. Malcolm would be behind everything, which means Oliver stopped anyone from going after the real killer and he is an idiot. Laurel would probably blame Oliver, which shouldn't make Oliver and Laurel interesting, it should make any interaction impossible. Seriously? Why would the Lances have anything to do with the Queens at this point? If anything, she would go villain and that's why she would be called the Black Canary. 

 

And then Thea's arc isn't really about Thea becoming strong/powerful, its about Thea becoming a pawn in Malcolm's game. I hate the thought that Thea would be brainwashed. And I hate the thought she would do this of her own feel will, because that is against everything we have seen/been told.

 

I actually have a hard time believing Malcolm would set Thea up like that. And with Barrowman saying that they would be a dysfunctional family, what happens? Oliver and Malcolm team up to protect Thea from Laurel's boxing lessons?

[Starfish35]

SA is back in Vancouver, he got back yesterday.

I hadn't heard that, so thank you. But even then that doesn't quite work, because that article is dated the 19th, the day before yesterday.

[apinknightmare]

 

Laurel would probably blame Oliver, which shouldn't make Oliver and Laurel interesting, it should make any interaction impossible. Seriously? Why would the Lances have anything to do with the Queens at this point? If anything, she would go villain and that's why she would be called the Black Canary.

 

Yeah, I didn't express myself well. I don't think it would make their interaction interesting in and of itself, it would be interesting to see where TPTB would take that relationship, because like you wrote...Oliver wouldn't let Laurel go after Thea, she'd be angry as hell, and how would she ever come back from that? I think she'd go villain too, which I might not mind watching so much, depending on how it's done.

[Chaser]

@apinknightmare - Sorry if that seemed a bit snappy. I have a hard time understanding Oliver and Laurel (with how he has treated her and how flip floppy she has been on him). Throw in Thea as Sara's killer and I just don't get it; You can't come back from that. Even if they use the arc to show Laurel's compassion and accept the world isn't black and white, I can't understand why she would stay in Starling City and work with Team Arrow.

[Morrigan2575]

I hadn't heard that, so thank you. But even then that doesn't quite work, because that article is dated the 19th, the day before yesterday.

Not really. I should have been more specific I know from someone who tracks SA that as of yesterday he was in Vancouver. I don't know when he got back, could be yesterday, could be earlier but he was definitely there yesterday.

[apinknightmare]

@apinknightmare - Sorry if that seemed a bit snappy. I have a hard time understanding Oliver and Laurel (with how he has treated her and how flip floppy she has been on him). Throw in Thea as Sara's killer and I just don't get it; You can't come back from that. Even if they use the arc to show Laurel's compassion and accept the world isn't black and white, I can't understand why she would stay in Starling City and work with Team Arrow.

 

No worries! I'm not sure how she'd come back from that either. I can't imagine any scenario where he'd let Laurel go after Thea, unless all the reconciling they did is to set up yet another rift after Oliver finds out? Still...he wouldn't let Laurel get vengeance on his sister. I can't imagine Thea would've done that in her right mind though, so would he blame her? Too many questions, not enough sense to be made of it.

[Guest]

I'll be kind of annoyed if it does turn out to be Thea because I was hoping that she was being all sneaky and mini-Moira and playing Malcolm at his own game, using him to get what she wants.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Guest

[SonofaBiscuit]

Well, assuming Thea is actually the killer, I say let Laurel go after Thea, thus pissing Oliver and Malcolm off.  I would love to see Laurel try to hold her own against someone trained by the LoA.

[Chaser]

If Thea's the killer, it would make as much sense as getting involved in a land war in Asia.

[statsgirl]

Oliver wouldn't let the LoA go after Merlyn because he was Thea's father (at least that's all I can think of) so he's not going to let Laurel go after Thea.

 

Although 7 months of training by Malcolm vs 4 weeks of boxing lessons would have been an interesting fight. Especially if it were to the death.

[SonofaBiscuit]

If Thea's the killer, it would make as much sense as getting involved in a land war in Asia.

 

Yeah, I'm basically expecting it to make zero sense.  Haha!  In fact, sense can't even enter into the equation.  With these guys, you have to think about which suspects will give them the most story in the back half of the season.  SA described it as "convoluted," right?  That doesn't sound promising.

Edited November 22, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[apinknightmare]

Oliver wouldn't let the LoA go after Merlyn because he was Thea's father (at least that's all I can think of) so he's not going to let Laurel go after Thea.

 

Although 7 months of training by Malcolm vs 4 weeks of boxing lessons would have been an interesting fight. Especially if it were to the death.

 

I forgot about that. I wiped that episode from my mind's DVR.

[Morrigan2575]

If Thea's the killer, it would make as much sense as getting involved in a land war in Asia.

Obviously these EPs never played Risk as Children.

Sorry couldn't resist... Now I have this strange desire to see The Princess Bride done by Transvestites.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

If Thea's the killer, it would make as much sense as getting involved in a land war in Asia.

 

A classic blunder.

[Chaser]

I'm shocked really. Its Inconceivable 

[Guest]

I'm shocked really. Its Inconceivable 

 

Yeah, they would be throwing Thea's character under the bus tbh. I can see why it would be shocking to casual viewers with no knowledge of spoilers but it doesn't make much sense how she went from angry to murderer within 5 months. I wonder if all evidence points to Thea being the murderer but it's another red herring and she's being set up. They can still get some emotional mileage out of her being a suspect I suppose.

[DrSpaceman10]

I went on 4chan (where the article said the spoiler came from-and where Moira's death spoiler originally came from) and I didn't see anything about a production assistant claiming that Thea is the killer. I don't see anything on Reddit either and Reddit usually posts spoilers found on 4chan (like Moira's death last year).

[Morrigan2575]

I'm shocked really. Its Inconceivable

I don not think that means what you think it means. Edited November 22, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

I went on 4chan (where the article said the spoiler came from-and where Moira's death spoiler originally came from) and I didn't see anything about a production assistant claiming that Thea is the killer. I don't see anything on Reddit either and Reddit usually posts spoilers found on 4chan (like Moira's death last year).

 

Yeah, I went looking for it too and I couldn't find anything. I suppose it could've been deleted, but grain of salt and all that.

Edited November 22, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

Unless it was the same guy that posted the BTS photo of KC's stunt double. Lol poor guy

 

The Princess Bride makes everything better. Including Arrow. 

[apinknightmare]

Unless it was the same guy that posted the BTS photo of KC's stunt double. Lol poor guy

 

Revenge spoilers, I love it.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I just can't see Thea being the killer, and not just because it doesn't quite make sense for the character, but it doesn't make sense for the actress as well. I remember reading an interview during the hiatus with one of the EPs (can't remember if it was MG or AK or even GB) about how this season was supposed to be a reward — I think they actually used that word — for Willa and Katie for being patient about their characters not getting the attention they deserved in seasons 1 and 2. So they finally try to do something interesting with Thea and they decide to make her a "hated" character (using Colton Haynes word here)? That doesn't make sense (I know, I know, look at which show we're talking about, but still).

[statsgirl]

A 'reward' for an actor though is a juicy storyline, and many of them prefer acting the villain to being a good character.

 

I can see them making Thea the chief suspect for a few episodes, long enough to cause Oliver to risk himself to save her, but I don't know about long term ... as Speedy/Mia Dearden, she may be a more valuable character than they want to get rid of. (On the other hand, both shows have a had of killing the females and keeping the males except for Tommy.)

 

In the end, if not Sin then I think it's an archery kneeling on one knee, which would account for the odd angle of the shots. And LoA or Waller, assuming that there is Queen DNA planted on the arrow..