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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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statsgirl

statsgirl

But could they ever redeem Roy if he killed Sara?  I don't think so, and the character is too important to waste. Who would be Oliver's sidekick if not Roy?

 

I think it might be Talia al Ghul. Ra's is too busy to do it (might send a minion though), but Talia might resent Sara's relationship with Nyssa.

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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ban1o

ban1o

But could they ever redeem Roy if he killed Sara?  I don't think so, and the character is too important to waste. Who would be Oliver's sidekick if not Roy?

 

THEA! lol but yeah I totally agree. 

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

lol, I thought of her but younger siblings don't make good sidekicks, they're always too busy fighting you to prove they're better than you are (speaking as a first-born).  

haha also as an oldest sibling, I agree 

Edited by ban1o
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ostentatious

ostentatious

(edited)

I prefer the Tommy theory too, but if mirakuru'd humans read as metahumans for OMAC purposes, Roy could've been programmed. If his secret in 306 is that he has been blacking out and losing time...that unidentifiable piece of tech in the plans at the end of 303 is speculated to be the satellite that controls the OMACs. It is called the Brother MK I satellite. MK. MK? Waller likes herself some controllable operatives. Maybe he's an experiment?

Plus Colton, who is prone to blurting spoilers, said something about Roy and Sara...growing close? Bonding? It wasn't quite that, but whatever it was sent spoiled minds spinning imagining someone died they both cared about in 302. Colton's troll soul could conceivably have been controlling his mouth at that point. And I do think that by that time he would've known, if the reveal is actually in 3a. Roy didn't meet baby Sara, did he?

They did say that they would be dealing with the impact of his mk'd actions. Maybe those aren't limited to what we already know about.

Edited by ostentatious
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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I love Tommy and do think there's a shot that Tommy is their "twist" especially since Tommy is (apparently) Arthur King/Merlyn in DC Comics but man I hate the idea that Tommy is being brought back as a villain or that Tommy killed Sara because that would be unforgivable (in my eyes).

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Pyramid

Pyramid

Maybe it was Laurel, and they'll do a whole split personality thing, where one half of her kills Sara so the other half has motivation to become a "hero". I'm joking, but it makes as much sense as what I've seen so far.

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ostentatious

ostentatious

(edited)

I think it would be a mind control thing then too. He wouldn't be working for the LoA, or working with Malcolm. So what organization would be backing him? ARGUS or HIVE.

Since the satellite is possibly on the table, then IMO mind control of <some sorts of entities> are on the table. That project would be of interest to either organization. Waller does have Slade in her back pocket.

She wanted Oliver for some reason that I strongly suspect was that he is Oliver Queen. He certainly wasn't a black belt in badass at that point. If his father's company, which was at that point under the control of Moira and Walter - and perhaps entirely Walter - was responsible for some technology she wanted, I can see lots of ways having him under control would be useful.

Tommy would be useful because he is a Merlyn and Oliver cares about him. And Sara would be useful for many obvious reasons.

Did we ever see him buried? What was our last visual of him? How many shots of Oliver were between...

Whoa.

Hold the fuck up.

The end of Sacrifice is shady. as. hell. Open your eyes, Tommy, open your eyes...and then the crowd and the skies and that's it. That is all we see. Anything could've happened.

And what was Oliver doing back on the island in 201?

ETA: I had forgotten we see Laurel scenes with him in s2 until Morrigan reminded me.

Edited by ostentatious
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writersblock51

writersblock51

(edited)

I don't think Sara's killer is Tommy because her reaction was one of mild surprise with recognition.  Not the type of surprise if she was looking at someone she thought was dead (Tommy, Malcolm).

 

For the shooter to be Tommy or Malcolm, we would need to learn, at some point, that she knew they were alive but didn't share that info with Oliver.  Which I think would be a stretch. Either is a stretch. Plus I can't fathom a motive...

 

As much as I'd love to see Colin Donnell again, I think he's NOT Sara's killer.

 

As for who could be the shooter - I think it's someone Sara knows but we haven't met yet.  So that opens the field a bit since the show could add any number of people as possibilities.  I do think the person will be LoA in some fashion, though. And I say that only because we know Ra's is coming, so I think the show will be tying his visit with Sara's death. 

 

It would be interesting if it was Talia. One crazy theory would be that Slade's son Joe (or his daughter Rose, though we've only heard him talk about Joe on this show) had gotten involved with the LoA - but Sara didn't know their real identity.  Joe/Rose came to take out Sara at Slade's request...

 

I think this scenario is HIGHLY unlikely but it would be a cool, far reaching twist that brings Slade back into the landscape at some point, too.  Didn't Manu say something recently that he'd been contacted by the Arrow people to come back?

Edited by writersblock51
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Password

Password

I'm not ruling out Talia All Ghul. Maybe she IS jealous Nyssa got some "light" in her life in the form of love. I'd hesitate to say Ras because Sara returned, so the question would be just "why?" Out of spite? Long due revenge for leaving in the first place? Besides I'd think he'd send someone to do that.

I'm ruling out Tommy because I really don't think he's alive. Malcolm would've found out, I just know it. Seeing as the Lazarus pit is probably going to be left out of this world, that option is void.

I really don't know. If it was completely out of the blue it would seem pointless but at the same time, the options we have make me go "naaah."

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quarks

quarks

Mostly for my own benefit, a list of the suspects in Sara's murder so far, not in any particular order:

 

1. Malcolm Merlyn. For: black arrows match his method. Against: Sara's response to seeing him.

 

2. Thea: For. black arrows again.  Against: Episode 3 seemed to suggest that she hadn't returned to Starling City since that episode.

 

3. Ra's Al Ghul, For: The League has definitely been after Sara before, and she's killed their lesser assassins. Maybe Ra's wanted to make sure the job was really done this time. Also, sets up the big bad for the season.  Against: We don't know what method he uses.

 

4. Talia Al Ghul, For: See Ra's motives above.  Against: Talia's even more associated with Batman, and there's been no casting announcement for her. Granted this show already got Ra's, Nyssa and Huntress, and would want this reveal to be a surprise, so possibly not a great objection there.

 

5. Another member of the League of Assassins. Pro: the arrows fit their MO. They have motive. Sets up Oliver versus Ra's.  Against: This feels like a cop out to me, and I'd kinda think Oliver doesn't need that many reasons to go after Ra's. That's not evidence or anything, of course.

 

6. Roy, either under mind control, lingering Mirakuru, or resentment of Sara.  For: Arrows!  Plus, that scene in the pilot that indicated he's been heading out on patrol a lot to "think things out."  Plus, it would make one hell of a twist and provide a lot of drama. Against: The arrows are the wrong color.

 

7. Tommy, under mind control. For: Why else was he in episode two if not to remind us that the character exists?  Against: The whole dead thing. For: It's been well established that Oliver is terrible at telling whether people are alive and dead. He's even worse at that than he is at dating, which is saying something.

 

8. Laurel, because she's Laurel, or the mind control thing. Fun though this would be, I'd go with no - the reaction from Sara is all wrong, plus Laurel's only shot the bow once in the show and from Felicity's reaction, Laurel hasn't been training that much down in the lair, so she wouldn't be able to pull off that show.

 

9. Oliver, still under the Vertigo: Maaaaaybe. For: Arrows, and another major twist. Against: The arrows are the wrong color again. This is really big with Oliver since the show has gone well out of its way to establish that Oliver only uses green arrows. It's even been a plot point. Plus, the green arrows.

 

10. Cupid, out of jealousy. For: Arrows. Against: We haven't even seen this character on screen yet so I don't know what the "against" is.

 

11. Komodo, with the alibi faked. For: Arrows are the correct color; he clearly has the skill to do this, and it wouldn't be the first time that Laurel identified the correct suspect, was stopped from dealing with the correct suspect since everyone told her she was wrong about the correct suspect, and then the suspect went on with his evil ways.  Against: The alibi.

 

12. ARGUS.  For: they are clearly being set up as one of the big bads of the show/season. Against: I don't know why they would use arrows, but possibly to create confusion.

 

13. HIVE. I just have this here because people keep bringing them up. I don't know who they are except that they apparently like Bing and have made their webpage searchable, and they seem to have ties with bad people and like killing people. Ditto on OMAC.

 

14. Slade. For: Motive all over the place, even post Mirakuru cure.  Against: Arrows aren't his weapon. 

 

15. Slade's son Joe. I forgot this person was ever mentioned on the show. From the point of view of someone who mostly read Marvel and is not that familiar with DC except what you guys tell me, I have to say that viewers are going to need a LOT more build up than Slade's casual mention back in, what, the first season?  (Or was Joe brought up the second season? I don't remember.)

 

16. Someone also hit by the particle accelerator as another tie-in to both shows.

 

17. Ray Palmer. Because it's not enough to take over companies and fly helicopters around and stalk computer experts: no, sometimes billionaires just have to get out and shoot a few people. (See, Oliver Queen.) He seems to know a lot more than what he's letting on. Plus, he might have wanted to conceal any prior relationship with Sara. Against: Ray seems heavily involved in other stories; in the comics, he's with the Justice League; and there's no indication that he can shoot arrows.

 

One thing I noted as I typed this up: we really haven't been given the usual Agatha Christie style evidence list for this: we have Sara's reaction, the fact that Sara didn't do the arrow catch, so she really must not have expected this, the fact that the arrows were black, and according to Oliver, the shots indicate someone skilled with a bow. We saw Felicity and Roy bagging up evidence, but we didn't see that evidence.

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)

On the basis that Sara knew her killer, is it possible that Sara knew Waller? She's villainous enough to commit murder and she does seem to be playing a big part in the Hong Kong flashbacks which would tie to the present day.

Edited by Angel12d
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ostentatious

ostentatious

Joe.

 

Huh.

 

ITA that the biggest issue with it being Tommy is Sara's demeanor. However, I would like to point out that if Tommy is alive, she knew it, and failed to tell Laurel or Oliver, she would simply be added to the long list of people who have concealed a loved one's living/dead status from people who would want to know, and that list includes both Laurel AND Oliver already.

 

So, I don't really see it as a problem.

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

 

7. Tommy, under mind control. For: Why else was he in episode two if not to remind us that the character exists?  Against: The whole dead thing. For: It's been well established that Oliver is terrible at telling whether people are alive and dead. He's even worse at that than he is at dating, which is saying something.

LOL this was pretty funny 

The stills for an episode are usually released a week before. Sometimes a few are released early but usually it's a week before so they should be released on Wednesday

Edited by ban1o
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ostentatious

ostentatious

I actually think the single biggest indicator it's Tommy actually *IS* the fact that he was in 302.

 

And also, as far as Sara not telling anyone she knew he was alive, that just makes her a Lance, doesn't it? Neither the Lances nor the Queens are known for making sure interested parties get updated regarding the living/dead status of their loved ones. Whatever the reason, it'd easily be more compelling than Laurel's reasons for not telling Quentin that Sara's dead.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

 

7. Tommy, under mind control. For: Why else was he in episode two if not to remind us that the character exists?  Against: The whole dead thing. For: It's been well established that Oliver is terrible at telling whether people are alive and dead. He's even worse at that than he is at dating, which is saying something.

 

Yeah, Oliver's terrible at telling whether people are actually dead, but there was no reason to keep Tommy's death a secret, and since he has an actual grave site it seems they had a proper funeral for him (unlike Operation: Bury Sara), and therefore people actually saw the body. Unless the Lazarus Pits are being introduced in this universe, I'm afraid I'm going to have to call shenanigans on this kind of plot twist.

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

Yeah I don't think it's Tommy. We actually saw his body die and I assume he had a proper funeral and his body was burried. Also I really doubt they are going to use the Lazarus pit on this show. 

Edited by ban1o
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Velocity23

Velocity23

(edited)

I think we got the first still for 3x04 quite early. I think they came out with Katrinas interview. I just find it funny that while the synopsis for 3x02 was very descriptive. the one for 3x05 doesnt give much away.

Edited by Velocity23
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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

I think we got the first still for 3x04 quite early. I think they came out with Katrinas interview. I just find it funny that while the synopsis for 3x02 was very descriptive. the one for 3x05 doesnt give much away.

According to spoiler tv the first 5 promotional photos for The Magician were released on the Tuesday  and the rest were released on Wednesday the next day, so  either tomorrow or Wednesday we should start expecting promo photos. 

Edited by ban1o
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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

Wait--how do we think Merlyn came back to life if not the Lazarus Pit? I thought that was the implication, never confirmed. So Oliver and Diggle are both just really really terrible at checking for a pulse or waiting to be sure someone's really dead?

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

Wait--how do we think Merlyn came back to life if not the Lazarus Pit? I thought that was the implication, never confirmed. So Oliver and Diggle are both just really really terrible at checking for a pulse or waiting to be sure someone's really dead?

Aaccording to Barrowman he somehow slowed his heart down so it appeared he was dead. The EP`s have said this season will be grounded with no superpowers so I can`t really see them using the Lazarus it.

Edited by ban1o
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Wait--how do we think Merlyn came back to life if not the Lazarus Pit? I thought that was the implication, never confirmed. So Oliver and Diggle are both just really really terrible at checking for a pulse or waiting to be sure someone's really dead?

 

What @ban10 wrote - I figure that's how the "there are some places in the world where death is an illusion" thing was meant to play out in this scenario. I got the impression that unlike Tommy, Merlyn never actually died. Although that does leave a person to wonder what exactly they did with his body? Did they bury him? If not, didn't they wonder where he disappeared to?

Edited by apinknightmare
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Chaser

Chaser

As much as I love the thought of Tommy coming back (Tommy, Thea and Malcolm would be gold), I don't see them every going that route. One because of the superpower aspect and two, it you can bring back Tommy why can't you bring back Sara? They are too devoted to Laurel's arc as Black Canary to give people hope for a preferred option (for some of course).

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

What @ban10 wrote - I figure that's how the "there are some places in the world where death is an illusion" thing was meant to play out in this scenario. I got the impression that unlike Tommy, Merlyn never actually died. Although that does leave a person to wonder what exactly they did with his body? Did they bury him? If not, didn't they wonder where he disappeared to?

Gotcha, thanks guys. I wasn't sure, but didn't think it was confirmed either way.

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

This is random, but any MacGyver fans? Malcolm reminds me of Murdock. Borderline unhinged genius. Quippy and fun, but totally dangerous. 

Edited by 10Eleven12
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

I'm gonna be pretty disappointed if the killer is someone we haven't met yet. And imo, just talking about them isn't enough. What are the stakes for the other characters if it's someone they have never met anyway? I understand the rationale behind Talia, or Slade's son, but how does that affect Laurel? Or Oliver, really? I mean, I'm not gonna be surprised if it turns out it's a new character, because my trust in these writers is minus one billion right now, but I don't see how that furthers the story of the characters who are still alive.

 

But to keep these spoilery so it belongs in this thread -- I think the 306 official description is misleading us, and the Ted Grant story might be the B-plot, while Roy thinking that he killed Sara might be the A-plot. I don't think it'll turn out to be him because Amell said in the set interview that as of 309, they haven't solved the mystery yet, but I do believe Roy is gonna be a suspect in 306.

 

I do like the idea of mind control, but if Roy isn't it, and because Sara's reaction to the killer was one of such familiarity, I can't help but wish it was Oliver. For all we know, Waller put a mind-controlling chip on his head before he even woke up in Hong Kong. Oliver was drugged in the same episode Sara died, maybe the drug was the sleeper trigger, or something like that.

 

And if it's Oliver, it provides him with more angsty manpain to last until the season finale when he figures out he wants to be a real boy, and it also shows Laurel that her REVENGE!!! feelings are wrong, as this show has previously shown several times.

 

I guess Tommy would also work, but then I agree that Sara's reaction doesn't really fit.

 

[And Thea is my wild card, because it would affect both Oliver and Laurel as well, but I don't want it to be Thea. Hee.]

Edited by dancingnancy
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Chaser

Chaser

I like the idea of Roy thinking he could have done it, coupled with finding out he killed the cop. I hope the synopsis is a misdirect because I could see that being a really strong episode for Roy.

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ban1o

ban1o

Although I know that this is supposed to be the story arch for the first half of the season  it is kinda annoying me how they are dragging out this `who dunnit` thing with Sara. Like they seems to be suspecting a different person each episode. 

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Orion

Orion

Who killed Sara really depends on which character the writers want the agency to be with it. Either Sara was killed because of something she did (limited story potential but a way to make her relevant in flashbacks or she was killed to get vengeance against another character.

 

If they want Oliver impacted it will be Malcolm, Thea, Roy, Slade, Shado, Waller, unknown villain from Oliver's past that he fought and didn't kill.

 

If they want it to be about Sara it would be Sin, Laurel, Roy, or LOA member or enemy.

 

If they want it to be about Laurel it could be Malcolm, Tommy, Sin (sisterly jealousy).

 

Or the ultimate cop out for murder mysteries a complete unknown with a random motivation.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Or the ultimate cop out for murder mysteries a complete unknown with a random motivation.

 

I'm going to go with Door #3 :)

 

Actually, given how much they love Flashbacks, I wouldn't be surprised if the killer is Maseo or Katana out for revenge...as to how Sara knew them, simple we'll find out later that Maseo or Katana were taken in by the LoA after they thought their family was dead and have sworn vengeance against Oliver because his actions cost them their love/family.  Actually I'll put money on it being Maseo over Katana because they haven't dipped into that well enough with Slade.

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DrSpaceman10

DrSpaceman10

I think either Waller or someone associated with ARGUS had Sara killed. SA said in that recent interview that the reason Sara was killed was very nefarious. I think whoever killed Sara wanted to pit Oliver vs LOA (+Ra's). I don't think that whoever killed Sara was targeting Sara directly, but instead wanted the effects her death would cause. 

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blixie

blixie

I agree about Katana, I'm thinking we'll get a flashback to how Katana became invovled with LoA after Maseo was killed by Oliver, because vengeance is the only trick in the writers bag. I feel like Ice Cube needs to bring some Boyz in the Hood realness to these dumbasses.

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TanyaKay

TanyaKay

As much as I love the thought of Tommy coming back (Tommy, Thea and Malcolm would be gold), I don't see them every going that route. One because of the superpower aspect and two, it you can bring back Tommy why can't you bring back Sara? They are too devoted to Laurel's arc as Black Canary to give people hope for a preferred option (for some of course).

 

We have seen Sara's dead body and her funeral with Felicity and Oliver throwing dirt on the coffin but not of Tommy so he can always come back from dead like Malcom and Slade Wilson.

Btw, no one thought of Lyla Michaels as a suspected killer of Sara, granted that she had just given birth but considering that she is an ARGUS agent and former special forces, that could be a possibility, esp. if they want to shift Oliver's manpain to Diggle in later season.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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We saw Tommy's body, twice. Oliver was with Tommy when he died (1.23) and Laurel ran back into the building to find Tommy dead (2.02) and Arrow leaving the building. Tommy is DEAD, Sara died twice but we never saw her DEAD until her 3rd death, which they made sure to show she was DEAD (3 arrows, cracked skull, tossed in a fridge, burried)

Malcom was dead in the sense that he faked his death and then took off (lame but that's the story they're going with). Only way Sara or Tommy come back at this point is with a Lazarus Pit.

DEAD = dead, dead

dead = mostly dead

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wonderwall

wonderwall

To be honest, I didn't miss Felicity in this scene (but I'm pretty sure it would've been better if she was). And I think laurel not being there totally enhanced it. 

 

I liked it! I may tune in. 

 

Nyssa should be on the show more. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

So they kind of half-assed the explanation of how Merlyn faked his death lol.

Lazy writing :/ I mean if they can half ass Merlyn faking his date, they could also bring back other characters (Moira, Sara, Tommy) and do the same thing... Which is why I'm bitter that they won't :p 

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Chaser

Chaser

I feel like all of the suspects fall into two categories: too easy or make no sense. 

 

In the end, I hope Sara was the intended target. That the killer took her out because she herself was a threat to whatever they are planing. I like that idea better then, they killed Sara to send a message to someone or just to set off a series of events. 

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