Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Wow, that Producer's Preview, looks like the body is someone Robert Queen had a hand in killing. Actually didn't think that was where it was going.

Didn't Robert confess to Moira in one of the S1 flashbacks that he killed someone?

[Lily-n11]

Quote

When he first opened his Queen Industrial Shipping factory in the Glades, he was approached by a city councilman who told him that he'd only allow the factory to run if Robert financially compensated him. Robert, being an honest businessman, angrily rejected the councilman's proposal and the two got into a heated argument which soon turned violent. Robert then accidentally caused the councilman to fall to his death, leaving Robert in a state of shock and depression. 

....

After the incident with the councilman, Robert turned to his close friend Malcolm and the two created the secret organization Tempest, with the goal of helping Starling City prosper by strong-arming the corrupt wealthy people who were poisoning the city through their illegal actions. Robert was ashamed of these actions dealing with such corrupt, immoral and greedy individuals, however, he stayed true to the task of redeeming his act of manslaughter.

From http://arrow.wikia.com/wiki/Robert_Queen

[strikera0]

14 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

wow  ROFL ... I thought we all knew she was gonna be a villain. 

Not all of us. There are quite a few comic book fans who expect Black Siren to switch sides and help Oliver against Chase in the finale. 

[Morrigan2575]

Thanks! I remembered that.

[Velocity23]

The way she acted at the end of 5x10, i thought it was obvious that she loved causing the team pain. Also how she is seen in the sizzle reel chaining up Lance and having that face off with Dinah in the mansion. For me it clearly spelled out villain. 

[leopardprint]

I could see her helping Lance, provided E2 Lance was a good father, but it seemed pretty clear she doesn't care about Oliver/the team?

Interesting! So Robert's sins shall be visited on his son and Oliver's sins shall be visited on his son? 

I had completely forgotten about that @Morrigan2575 and @Lily-n11.

(whispers: "Oliver, you are a killer....?)

Edited May 9, 2017 by leopardprint

[EmeraldArcher]

14 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Didn't Robert confess to Moira in one of the S1 flashbacks that he killed someone?

Yes, he did when he first told her about the Undertaking.

ETA: Sorry--didn't see the other, more comprehensive responses.

Edited May 9, 2017 by EmeraldArcher

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I could see her helping Lance, provided E2 Lance was a good father, but it seemed pretty clear she doesn't care about Oliver/the team?

Didn't the sizzle reel show BS leaving Lance in chains in a storage container? I don't think she cares about anyone on this Earth.

[leopardprint]

7 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Didn't the sizzle reel show BS leaving Lance in chains in a storage container? I don't think she cares about anyone on this Earth.

She left him there for safekeeping. ?

Seriously, there wasn't any indication  she cares but I'm curious how Chase got her to help. If it was a simple exchange for freedom, she's a villain why didn't she peace out? 

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, leopardprint said:

Seriously, there wasn't any indication  she cares but I'm curious how Chase got her to help. If it was a simple exchange for freedom, she's a villain why didn't she peace out? 

Maybe E2 OQ left her for someone else, then died on the boat, so when she went villain, she couldn't get her revenge. Chase is offering her an opportunity to get revenge on this Earth's OQ - even though they're different people and therefore that's just stupid - and somehow that's enough for her? 

[statsgirl]

Maybe she's just angry at everyone who doesn't have the miserable life she does on E2.

34 minutes ago, Lily-n11 said:

After the incident with the councilman, Robert turned to his close friend Malcolm and the two created the secret organization Tempest, with the goal of helping Starling City prosper by strong-arming the corrupt wealthy people who were poisoning the city through their illegal actions. Robert was ashamed of these actions dealing with such corrupt, immoral and greedy individuals, however, he stayed true to the task of redeeming his act of manslaughter.

So Robert started out trying to atone for his sins and it went bad.  I wonder if the writers will parallel that to Oliver trying to atone for Roberts sins and then his own, and it all goes bad.

Would Oliver even know about the councilman?  Would he recognize the body?

[leopardprint]

Merlyn would know, right? Is he in this episode? Maybe that's what brings Thea back?

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

 

So what kind of cake do you think Felicity will get Oliver?

One she can fit in so she jumps out to surprise Oliver?

Legitimately surprised at the identity of the body. I don't think that Oliver knows about the killing, though. Maybe Malcolm pops up to inform him? What else ia shown in the preview? I can't watch it now.

[Buzzyspirit]

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Maybe E2 OQ left her for someone else, then died on the boat, so when she went villain, she couldn't get her revenge. Chase is offering her an opportunity to get revenge on this Earth's OQ - even though they're different people and therefore that's just stupid - and somehow that's enough for her? 

Somehow I just think that they will leave those explanations to season 6. To be fair they'll have to use the character for at least 13 episodes next season so they probably just hold that story for later. I still don't care about BS and those reasons in particular but I can see the impact this will have in Lance and I can see PB killing those scenes. QL might even think that his E2 version was a sh*tty father after he meets BS and feel sort of guilty for her choice to be a villain. 

[wonderwall]

Do you think BS hates Felicity because maybe it's Felicity Oliver was cheating with? Because I really can't explain that level of hatred she had for her in 510...

Edited May 9, 2017 by wonderwall

[Midnight Lullaby]

7 minutes ago, bijoux said:

One she can fit in so she jumps out to surprise Oliver?

Legitimately surprised at the identity of the body. I don't think that Oliver knows about the killing, though. Maybe Malcolm pops up to inform him? What else ia shown in the preview? I can't watch it now.

Oliver and Thea speaking..she tells him their parents weren't saints and he isn't happy about that and tells Thea that Chase is trying to convince him that his father is a killer (like he is).

MM could make things better actually since he knows what happened..I think if they dig up informations about what happened on their own they can get even worse ideas..like that he murdered the guy in cold blood..

[Guest]

IDK why but I don't think Chase kidnapped William at the end of 520. I think it was just setting it up that he knows where he is? Otherwise there really is no way to explain why he's missing for a few weeks and no one knows. Unless Samantha is taken at the same time. That's possible. Haha, I just talked myself into an explanation. 

Anyway, I'm happy to see Thea back. And speaking the truth, too. 

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Do you think BS hates Felicity because maybe it's Felicity Oliver was cheating with? Because I really can't explain that level of hatred she had for her in 510...

I don't know. I think they can probably just explain away that hatred with the fact that Felicity was the one suspicious of her and she didn't like that? But that hatred was a bit intense for that, I have to say... 

[statsgirl]

11 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Do you think BS hates Felicity because maybe it's Felicity Oliver was cheating with? Because I really can't explain that level of hatred she had for her in 510...

Felicity would have been in her second or third year of MIT when the boat sank.  Unless Oliver went to Harvard or Boston U as one of the colleges he dropped out of, it's unlikely he would have met Felicity though.

Maybe she just hates Felicity because Earth1 Oliver cares for her. And because she's a goody two-shoes, which Black Siren hates.

[ComicFan777]

Even if E2 Felicity was still going to MIT, it's possible that E2 Felicity interned at QC (sorta like how Isabel interned at QC in E1) in the summers and met/ran off with Oliver.

Edited May 9, 2017 by ComicFan777

[Chaser]

I would love to think Olicity was running away together in E2 (fanfic please), but I think all the Felicity vs. BS was a meta statement by the writers.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Chaser

[Lily-n11]

BS didn't even like Earth1 LL. I'm not even sure I believe the sob story she told when she was in the bunker cell.

IMO a lot of things could be taken as a meta statement in 510. Did anyone else wonder how they came up with the "hey pumpkin" line? I did and when I came across this tweet from early season 2 that naturally lead to thinking about everything we don't know about BTS-stuff.

[lemotomato]

The writers have a hard time even remembering what they wrote in the previous season. I highly doubt they remember anything from a tweet released by PR (which they don't have anything to do with) four years ago.

The other Arrow spoiler from the tvline link:

Quote

This will be the first Arrow season finale that does not take place in Starling City. Can we expect the same kind of intense fights, or will this be more of an emotional showdown? —Nicole
“Both,” answers Wendy Mericle. “One of the fun parts of having Prometheus and Oliver going toe-to-toe this season has been they’re both really great fighters, but by the same token, Prometheus is a tremendous psychological villain and he’s going to hit Oliver right where it hurts. That’s going to be a double whammy for him in the finale.”

I guess that's where the abduction of Oliver's nearest and dearest come in?

Edited May 9, 2017 by lemotomato

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, ComicFan777 said:

Even if E2 Felicity was still going to MIT, it's possible that E2 Felicity interned at QC (sorta like how Isabel interned at QC in E1) in the summers and met/ran off with Oliver.

It would make a vendetta more interesting.

It made sense for Isabel to intern at QC because she was working on her MBA.  Even if the Applied Science division wasn't created yet, maybe E2 QC has some science techy project that Felicity might have worked on.

[Lily-n11]

18 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

The writers have a hard time even remembering what they wrote in the previous season. I highly doubt they remember anything from a tweet released by PR (which they don't have anything to do with) four years ago.

lol, that's not what I meant. I would never accuse these writers of remembering things.

[Sunshine]

20 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

 

The other Arrow spoiler from the tvline link:

I guess that's where the abduction of Oliver's nearest and dearest come in?

Ending explosion which leaves Oliver reeling.  I wonder if Malcolm dies saving Thea (a heroic moment) or if he dies in the explosion.  MG said the boat wouldn't explode with the team on board with us wondering who survives all hiatus.  It doesn't rule out Malcolm heading to the boat and it exploding. Full circle from pilot and Malcolm blowing up the Gambit. He's Oliver's family but not the one we think of (paraphrasing WM).

Malcolm heads to boat to get it started. Oliver heads to wherever the others are.  Malcolm blowing up on a boat would be apropos. I really want this. :)

[way2interested]

35 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I guess that's where the abduction of Oliver's nearest and dearest come in?

I'm thinking so, but now since pretty much everything Chase is doing has some sort of extra motive, I'm wondering what's the purpose behind kidnapping part of the team. Like, Susan was kidnapped basically as a way to draw Oliver in so Chase could kidnap him, so I would think that kidnapping the team would have another motive behind it besides just throwing Oliver off because he doesn't have his go-to support people/loved ones. 

[lemotomato]

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I'm thinking so, but now since pretty much everything Chase is doing has some sort of extra motive, I'm wondering what's the purpose behind kidnapping part of the team. Like, Susan was kidnapped basically as a way to draw Oliver in so Chase could kidnap him, so I would think that kidnapping the team would have another motive behind it besides just throwing Oliver off because he doesn't have his go-to support people/loved ones. 

It does force Oliver to team up with other bad guys/killers, reinforcing the idea that he's a killer/bad guy himself.

[insomniadreams88]

I will say that I'm going to be a bit disappointed if Adrian "I'm X steps ahead of you, Oliver" Chase didn't count on him calling on these villains for help and at least try to recruit them/plan accordingly so that at least one of them turns on Oliver at one point because Chase got to them first. 

[way2interested]

It would at least be a bit more balanced if some of the villains (Slade, Boomerang) end up actually fighting against Oliver's team as part of Chase's plan and adds another layer to the current simple and straightforward plot line if Oliver relied on bad guys/killers to beat the guy who wants him to think that he's a bad guy/killer and ends up having to fight them likely trying not to kill them to try to make a point.

[bijoux]

This body is actually a pretty great move on Chase's part. Not only has he convinced Oliver that he is a trigger happy murderer, now he's serving him up proof that the father who set him on this path is the same way. It's like Oliver can't escape being the same psycho Chase is. Nicely played, villain.

I'm also starting to think this is why he trapped Oliver and Felicity. He just swung by wherever to get a drop on the kid. He didn't kidnap him or anything and of course William doesn't mention a strange dude approaching him and calling him by his real name to his mother, so when Oliver checks in, everything seems to be in order. Maybe they even set up some surveilance for the kid, but not Samantha and then takes her in 522 or 523.

[insomniadreams88]

17 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I'm also starting to think this is why he trapped Oliver and Felicity. He just swung by wherever to get a drop on the kid. He didn't kidnap him or anything and of course William doesn't mention a strange dude approaching him and calling him by his real name to his mother, so when Oliver checks in, everything seems to be in order. Maybe they even set up some surveilance for the kid, but not Samantha and then takes her in 522 or 523.

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if Chase told William, "Hey, don't mention seeing me to your mother, okay?" and William went, "Sure, strange man who knows my real name, whatever you say," and then at a later time (a.k.a. when it's time for it to be relevant to the plot/everyone is kidnapped for the finale), Samantha finds out about it. 

[leopardprint]

5 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if Chase told William, "Hey, don't mention seeing me to your mother, okay?" and William went, "Sure, strange man who knows my real name, whatever you say," and then at a later time (a.k.a. when it's time for it to be relevant to the plot/everyone is kidnapped for the finale), Samantha finds out about it. 

No one's ever lost betting against a Queen man's intelligence. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by leopardprint

[Morrigan2575]

7 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if Chase told William, "Hey, don't mention seeing me to your mother, okay?" and William went, "Sure, strange man who knows my real name, whatever you say," and then at a later time (a.k.a. when it's time for it to be relevant to the plot/everyone is kidnapped for the finale), Samantha finds out about it. 

I've been wondering since last week if Stupid William didn't tell his mom about the stranger who knew his dad. 

[calliope1975]

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if Chase told William, "Hey, don't mention seeing me to your mother, okay?" and William went, "Sure, strange man who knows my real name, whatever you say," and then at a later time (a.k.a. when it's time for it to be relevant to the plot/everyone is kidnapped for the finale), Samantha finds out about it. 

That kid is a simpleton. There's a reason it was Digg and Lyla's kid who was Green Arrow in LOT's AU Starling City. With the way they've written him in his few appearances, I will never believe he'd grow up to be any kind of vigilante/superhero. Which means he'll be a regular irritant for me when TIIC inevitably tackle this story line. 

[leopardprint]

6 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

That kid is a simpleton. There's a reason it was Digg and Lyla's kid who was Green Arrow in LOT's AU Starling City. With the way they've written him in his few appearances, I will never believe he'd grow up to be any kind of vigilante/superhero. Which means he'll be a regular irritant for me when TIIC inevitably tackle this story line. 

Can they send him to a deserted island (offscreen) for personal growth and development? It worked for his father.

58 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

It does force Oliver to team up with other bad guys/killers, reinforcing the idea that he's a killer/bad guy himself.

I think you are on to something with this. He's setting up a scenario for Oliver to have do whatever it takes to rescue his family which Chase hopes is turning back into a killer.

Edited May 9, 2017 by leopardprint

[bijoux]

12 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

That kid is a simpleton. There's a reason it was Digg and Lyla's kid who was Green Arrow in LOT's AU Starling City. With the way they've written him in his few appearances, I will never believe he'd grow up to be any kind of vigilante/superhero. Which means he'll be a regular irritant for me when TIIC inevitably tackle this story line. 

I went with the simplest explanation there. John Junior was raised by vigilantes, heroes and government agents. William never became a part of that world, i.e. he was never really a part of Oliver's life.

[statsgirl]

30 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Can they send him to a deserted island (offscreen) for personal growth and development? It worked for his father.

College Oliver may have been a jerk but there was a basic intelligence there.  Teen Thea also figured out how to run a bar barely out of high school.

William seems to be a lost cause.

[leopardprint]

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

This body is actually a pretty great move on Chase's part. Not only has he convinced Oliver that he is a trigger happy murderer, now he's serving him up proof that the father who set him on this path is the same way. It's like Oliver can't escape being the same psycho Chase is. Nicely played, villain.

I'm also starting to think this is why he trapped Oliver and Felicity. He just swung by wherever to get a drop on the kid. He didn't kidnap him or anything and of course William doesn't mention a strange dude approaching him and calling him by his real name to his mother, so when Oliver checks in, everything seems to be in order. Maybe they even set up some surveilance for the kid, but not Samantha and then takes her in 522 or 523.

I can't remember but were the people on the original list all members of the same group as RQ and MM or just bad people in general. Perhaps RQ also did business with Chase's father who didn't seem to be an especially good father while Robert sacrificed himself for his son. Chase views himself and Oliver as sort of two sides of the same coin except Oliver went "good" and Chase went "bad". Chase believes they have the same underlying motivations for doing what they do. 

ETA: @statsgirl, Thea isn't genetically a Queen, she escaped the hereditary stupidity. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by leopardprint

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, Lily-n11 said:

BS didn't even like Earth1 LL. I'm not even sure I believe the sob story she told when she was in the bunker cell.

IMO a lot of things could be taken as a meta statement in 510. Did anyone else wonder how they came up with the "hey pumpkin" line? I did and when I came across this tweet from early season 2 that naturally lead to thinking about everything we don't know about BTS-stuff.

 

To me, Siren doesn't like Laurel because she views her as weak from everything that she's been told about her by Zoom and Prometheus and whatever happened to her on E2 that is the last thing she wants to be or be viewed as. She doesn't like Felicity because she views her as competition/a formidable threat who she can't wrap her fingers around as easily as the others. Plus knowing that she is in love with the mirror image of her dead boyfriend isn't doing Felicity any favors in Sirens eye. 

As far as the pumpkin quote....I highly doubt they were inspired from a 3 year old tweet. "Hey guys, remember that one time whoever ran our twitter put a pumpkin over Felicitys face? How about we have her punch Black Siren and say Hey Pumpkin ha ha ha".....yeah no.

[statsgirl]

30 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

ETA: @statsgirl, Thea isn't genetically a Queen, she escaped the hereditary stupidity. 

I forgot about that.  But since intelligence is on the X chromosome, I blame a lot of William on Samantha and her terrible parenting.

[leopardprint]

Random observation about that 521 clip...didn't Oliver's father basically shoot the other guy on their life raft in cold blood? I know he did it to save Oliver but Robert is also definitely a killer. 

Arrow is unintentionally raising some weird questions about morality and intent here. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by leopardprint

[Morrigan2575]

Yes, Robert killed the Captain and himself in order to give Oliver a shot at survival.

[statsgirl]

Chase couldn't know that though.  But it's true that Robert wasn't a nice man.

[Morrigan2575]

No, Chase couldn't know that and I don't even think it counts. Oliver knew it and understood why Robert did it and, has lived with the guilt.

However, finding out that Robert killed someone in a not quite life and death situation would definitely screw with Oliver's perception of his father, his mission, himself. 

It's a smart play by Chase

[way2interested]

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

Arrow is unintentionally raising some weird questions about morality and intent here. 

They've literally brought up weird questions of morality and intent every single season of the entire series.

Edited May 9, 2017 by way2interested

[leopardprint]

37 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

No, Chase couldn't know that and I don't even think it counts. Oliver knew it and understood why Robert did it and, has lived with the guilt.

However, finding out that Robert killed someone in a not quite life and death situation would definitely screw with Oliver's perception of his father, his mission, himself. 

It's a smart play by Chase

 

I would say it counts, the Captain was no worse than them, but beyond that, Oliver knows his father would take extreme measures since he shot and killed a man right in front of him, however understandable his reasons. I don't think he should be surprised at this point by anything his parents did. 

It is a brilliant play by Chase and a well done surprise by the show. 

Edited May 10, 2017 by leopardprint

[Morrigan2575]

Posted a tweet with a blurb about OTA (Dig/Felicity) and Slade playing a big role in the finale.

Will keep searching for a source.

[lemotomato]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Posted a tweet with a blurb about OTA (Dig/Felicity) and Slade playing a big role in the finale.

Will keep searching for a source.

It's from this EW interview, just got posted.

[Morrigan2575]

Thanks!