Spoiler Discussion Thread

[bijoux]

Thea for Vigilante?

[statsgirl]

Wasn't she standing with Oliver on the City Hall steps as Vigilante was preparing to shoot him?

[bijoux]

You're right, I forgot about that. I wasn't that serious because she's too small for him. I just wish she had more of a role eventually.

[Cleanqueen]

Did David misspeak? Did he mean Black Canary and not Black Siren?

[leopardprint]

It would be cool if it was split personality Thea. I would like it to be a woman. I guess Oliver should be able to recognize her fight style. 

Other possibilities: Probably frequently seen cop that is not Lance

Helena? Nyssa? Shado's sister? Tatsu? Walter? WALTER!!!

Lazarus Pit Attendant #4? Nanda Parbat Candle Wrangler?

Malcolm, though I think they are saving him for the final season villain. 

ETA: It can't be Lance can it for the same reasons as Thea. They did a fake out for him as Prometheus? Could it be a misdirect? He could be mad they didn't kill Darkh .

Edited March 27, 2017 by leopardprint

[tv echo]

29 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Speaking of apathy...

Granted this is far from being a random sample but there's not much love for the n00bs and Black Siren.  It's inevitable that we'll be stuck with them though.  I'm surprised he mentioned Black Siren though. I guess she's going to be coming back too.

I also posted this non-spoilery portion in the Social Media thread...

-- DR: "I remember when, at the beginning of the season, everyone went like, 'oh, what can we expect for Season 5?' And we're like, 'it's a return to basics, kinda street level crime, we get back to that thing we had in Season 1, Season 2.' Um, 'cause Season 3 and Season 4 kinda left some of that dynamic. We kinda went off into magic and superpowers. And, you know, that's - they're writing a long, long story, so some of that's to be expected. But, you know, the fans kinda had a reaction to that. So when we said Season 5's going be a return to basics and street level crime, we hope we did that. Did we do that? (Some fans cheer and clap) Kind of a spatter, a splatter of applause. Yeah, well, you know."

The Vigilante has to be someone who doesn't know that Oliver is the Green Arrow because he didn't know that the Green Arrow has suffered loss - unless we're talking about someone with mental problems (like the split personality suggested above). The ScreenerTV writer even suggested Paul (Curtis' ex), although I think that's doubtful.

Edited March 27, 2017 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Would they really be negotiating this late with MB? They start 23 in a few weeks.

 A KC fan told KP that she had a source that said KC was in 22, 23 and possibly be returning in S6. KP said her source was correct, she would be in 22 but he didn't mention 23 or S6.

I thought they would just do flashbacks with her, but with DR mentioning BS Idk.

[strikera0]

They should just rip off the bandaid and announce that KC will be back for a substantial role in season 6. With all the rumors coming out of Vancouver (KC coming back as a regular) and DR mentioning Black Siren as a potential season 6 story at the most recent con, it feels like an inevitability at this point.  

[ladylaw99]

Why is BS coming back?  What possible story do they have left to tell.  Better yet why would KC want to come back and be around her replacement?  She is not a great villain.  

[leopardprint]

21 minutes ago, tv echo said:

The Vigilante has to be someone who doesn't know that Oliver is the Green Arrow because he didn't know that the Green Arrow has suffered loss - unless we're talking about someone with mental problems (like the split personality suggested above).

TV Echo, get out of here with your "logic" and "reasons". ?

It's probably the real Adrian Chase if not the police captain. 

ETA: If KC is going to come back why didn't they just reboot her into the DD role? They could have given her DD's backstory on another earth. Do the comic book characters basically look the same?

Edited March 27, 2017 by leopardprint

[Belinea]

2 minutes ago, ladylaw99 said:

Better yet why would KC want to come back and be around her replacement?  She is not a great villain.  

God knows why... It is not like the show ever got better because of her presence. Also how great of a villain can she be? I mean, they had Felicity take her down with one punch. And I really don't want to see a redemption storyline for that character. Because at the end of the day all the problems still remain. Also does the show need two people with a canary cry?

[Velocity23]

Not sure KC as BS is the main priority for TBTP. I would say first priority is to decide which noobs to keep. 

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, ladylaw99 said:

Better yet why would KC want to come back and be around her replacement

Because it's a steady job would be my guess. 

[ladylaw99]

If that is the priority then get rid of the noobs, they add nothing.  LOL

[statsgirl]

Maybe they connected MB about returning and it didn't work and that's why the pissy tweet?

Good point about Vigilante being someone who doesn't know Oliver is the GA.  Unlike Prometheus, who was all about Oliver's past, I think Vigilante is someone we haven't met yet and it's setting up something in s6.

Or it's someone pissed off that Simon Morrison stole his identity.

42 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Did David misspeak? Did he mean Black Canary and not Black Siren?

That makes more sense.  It's weird that he would tease Black Siren as if it's a sure thing.

32 minutes ago, tv echo said:

-- DR: "I remember when, at the beginning of the season, everyone went like, 'oh, what can we expect for Season 5?' And we're like, 'it's a return to basics, kinda street level crime, we get back to that thing we had in Season 1, Season 2.' Um, 'cause Season 3 and Season 4 kinda left some of that dynamic. We kinda went off into magic and superpowers. And, you know, that's - they're writing a long, long story, so some of that's to be expected. But, you know, the fans kinda had a reaction to that. So when we said Season 5's going be a return to basics and street level crime, we hope we did that. Did we do that? (Some fans cheer and clap) Kind of a spatter, a splatter of applause. Yeah, well, you know."

That's good to know, that "back to basics" =  street crime and grittiness for them.  And not in terms of relationships between OTA although they did that too.

I do see why they would want new characters to be able to tell new stories but adding characters, like adding melted butter to a Bechamel sauce, requires a slow steady flow, not dumping all the new stuff in and messing up the old.

Edited March 27, 2017 by statsgirl

[Velocity23]

Just now, ladylaw99 said:

If that is the priority then get rid of the noobs, they add nothing.  LOL

I think the chatter might be connected more with KC appearing in the last 2 episode and her people spreading a word of a possible s6 appearance. 

[Morrigan2575]

Is she in the last 2? I'd take Ken P over others and he seems to only be talking about 22

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Is she in the last 2? I'd take Ken P over others and he seems to only be talking about 22

If KC is in the last 2, it could be she's in the final scene of 22 leading into 23?

[Cleanqueen]

I still think David made an error and said Black Siren instead of Black Canary. He was talking about all the new characters, BS was just in one episode. 

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

If KC is in the last 2, it could be she's in the final scene of 22 leading into 23?

I can see her being in the last two episodes if also boomerang is appearing. BS, Slade and Boomerang are the only three held up by argus on Lian Yu.

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

If KC is in the last 2, it could be she's in the final scene of 22 leading into 23?

Sure but, that wasn't my question.  You have Ken P only saying or acknowledging that she's in 522. You have someone else saying both. So, my question is who is right?

As of right  is, I'm going with the source I know over the source I don't know. 

[ladylaw99]

6 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Because it's a steady job would be my guess. 

I can appreciate that and good for her if she can put her feelings aside but I guess I would be more interested in finding something else.  I just don't need to see BS again.  But thats me.

[Chaser]

When KP first mentioned KC coming back he seemed to indicate it was one of the last episodes of the season, now he's confirming 22. I would think he would have mentioned 23 if he had confirmation.

6 minutes ago, ladylaw99 said:

I can appreciate that and good for her if she can put her feelings aside but I guess I would be more interested in finding something else.  I just don't need to see BS again.  But thats me.

I don't think she can get anything else.

[lemotomato]

7 minutes ago, ladylaw99 said:

I can appreciate that and good for her if she can put her feelings aside but I guess I would be more interested in finding something else.  I just don't need to see BS again.  But thats me.

She doesn't seem to have much going on aside from cajoling fans to play video games with her/watch her play video games on her Twitch channel. She's going back to the same well for an easy paycheck.

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

When KP first mentioned KC coming back he seemed to indicate it was one of the last episodes of the season, now he's confirming 22. I would think he would have mentioned 23 if he had confirmation.

Which is where I'm hung up. I guess well see how long she films for and if she comes back 4/7-4/18 

Quote

I don't think she can get anything else.

Ding ding ding

[Cleanqueen]

Yeah every actor whose been killed off these shows has moved on to doing other things, she hasn't and the only explanation is that she can't find anything. So she'll do appearances on a show that continues to humiliate her cause it means $$$

[Belinea]

But why would they want her to come back? Ratings aside, which might or might not make a difference depending on who you talk to, what can she add that she wasn't able to emote the last 5 years?

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, Belinea said:

But why would they want her to come back? Ratings aside, which might or might not make a difference depending on who you talk to, what can she add that she wasn't able to emote the last 5 years?

They don't 

[Cleanqueen]

4 minutes ago, Belinea said:

But why would they want her to come back? Ratings aside, which might or might not make a difference depending on who you talk to, what can she add that she wasn't able to emote the last 5 years?

so far we don't know at what capacity she is coming back. if she is doing the flashbacks it makes sense and if she's playing BS in the finale episode it makes sense since the battle takes place on Lian Yu and other villains are coming back as well. 

[ladylaw99]

Like I said I can appreciate that KC can't find anything else but I guess I would rather do something else than go to a show that does not want me.  Just my opinion. 

[leopardprint]

Does she have to give permission every time to use the picture? Maybe she's just/has an excellent negotiator. I can't imagine if S5 is supposed to finish the island story they need her next year. 

ETA: Maybe this is all elaborate revenge for that horrendous statue.  It inspired KC's villain arc. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by leopardprint

[statsgirl]

I find Black Siren more interesting that Laurel's Black Canary and more in KC's wheelhouse but unless JH leaves, I don't see a continuing role for Black Siren on the show.  Maybe one or two filler episodes but not more.

I can understand why they would want KC to wrap up Oliver's 5 year journey but I can't see any reason beyond that to bring back Laurel.

[calliope1975]

Maybe it'll be Tinah versus BS with the dueling canary cries. 

[Chaser]

They are wrapping up the flashbacks so I imagine that wraps up Laurel. Which just leaves BS. As a one off villain okay, but any type of recurring role doesn't make sense. Redemption arc only works if she dies in the end like Deadshot or is shipped to LOT, because if she reforms to stick around she is redundant with Tinah.

2 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Maybe it'll be Tinah versus BS with the dueling canary cries. 

Boomerang is going to be so annoyed, he just takes them both out.

[leopardprint]

They've really mangled Black Canary with all this mess. I wonder if DC hasn't made a mistake by revisiting her like the "Streisand Effect". I only vaguely knew about her (in that there was a character named Black Canary) but now I just negatively associate her with BTS weirdness and the problems that plague female comic book characters and comic book shows in general. And the one "good" canary isn't the real one. ??‍♀️Tinah isn't going to save her.

[theOAfc]

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I also thought it was strange that SA replied to him too. IDK, it felt intentional to me. So I really wouldn't be surprised if we do see Slade/MB back in the finale and not just some random dude in a Deathstroke suit.

 

To be fair,Stephen teased Deathstroke for the 100th too(posting pics etc) and many thought Manu was gonna play in it(Manu also tweeted stuff being snarky about the episode back then) so i think he is not really coming back and Stephen is just using the media hype his character creates. 

[way2interested]

Just now, theOAfc said:

To be fair,Stephen teased Deathstroke for the 100th too(posting pics etc) and many thought Manu was gonna play in it(Manu also tweeted stuff being snarky about the episode back then) so i think he is not really coming back and Stephen is just using the media hype his character creates. 

Did many think it? Most people I saw around (comments, twitter, tumblr, etc., but admittedly I didn't go out searching) assumed that he wasn't going to be in 508 specifically because it was just a pic of the costume and especially after Manu's snark at SA's pic.

[theOAfc]

At this point i dont see why they would bring KC back as BS apart from them just trying to create some internet buzz with feeding her stans. So what,are they gonna redeed BS? Are they gonna milk the "is she a crazy villain or a misunderstood antihero" debate like they tried(and failed) to do with Merlyn? Seems like apart from some very loud comic fans of Laurel Lance, noone will be hyped with this. Ratings certainly wont rise. Im personally tired of anything KC. When you write off a character,be done with them and move on. Whats with the back and forth with dead or long forgoten characters popping up every other episode? Nothing new to tell? its not like they dont have the newbies now to re-do old stories. 

 

I also know quite a few people that dropped arrow this season because they couldnt stand how the show was forcing the talk over Laurel's(non existent) legacy. Seriously,last i checked she was an overglorified sidekick that never earned her importance but many people were ok with it as long as she carried the comic title. She is dead,move on and stop trying to make her more relevant than when she was alive. Jeez.

3 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Did many think it? Most people I saw around (comments, twitter, tumblr, etc., but admittedly I didn't go out searching) assumed that he wasn't going to be in 508 specifically because it was just a pic of the costume and especially after Manu's snark at SA's pic.

I saw as many as i see now. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

Well if they bring her back it's because of BTS reasons, so because of the actress, not because of any of the characters she played.

[theOAfc]

We dont really know that though. People always assume stuff about her, claiming she was fired etc and while i do admit its weird to kill her character off only to introduce a new version of her character,i cant say that them bringing her back is due to contracts and bts. Maybe they simply try to create internet buzz with keeping her loud fans active. They literally used her as mid season finale cliffhanger. That  says a lot about what they think sells around. 

[Cleanqueen]

4 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

We dont really know that though. People always assume stuff about her, claiming she was fired etc and while i do admit its weird to kill her character off only to introduce a new version of her character,i cant say that them bringing her back is due to contracts and bts. Maybe they simply try to create internet buzz with keeping her loud fans active. They literally used her as mid season finale cliffhanger. That  says a lot about what they think sells around. 

What buzz? She barely trended anytime she's been on the show. And her appearances made no impact on ratings. I don't think any of them actually believe she creates buzz. All her merchandises are basically non existent or discontinued while Sara as BC is still selling. It's pretty evident it's BTS stuff beyond their control if they keep feeding her crumbs.

[Midnight Lullaby]

More than an assumption it's what the paps say about her situation. And I don't think we can talk about Internet buzz for a character that trended maybe once in five years.

[theOAfc]

4 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

What buzz? She barely trended anytime she's been on the show. And her appearances made no impact on ratings. I don't think any of them actually believe she creates buzz. All her merchandises are basically non existent or discontinued while Sara as BC is still selling. It's pretty evident it's BTS stuff beyond their control if they keep feeding her crumbs.

The writers  said she is a fan favorite(which is stupid but they did say it,they do see her loud stans on their mentions daily and reddit was all over the internet after her death whether we admit it or not). I mean sure, she doesnt create that much buzz but she does create more than any of the newbies and there are only a few things about the show that still create some buzz. I think she is one of them. 

I mean im pretty sure ratings wont really be any better for 5x20 than they are nowadays, but does this mean olicity isnt one of the most popular aspects of the show? No. 

 

At the end of the day,whether she is really that popular or not what matter is what these writers think and im pretty sure they pay too much attention to what the internet screams on their mentions. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by theOAfc

[Midnight Lullaby]

The writers think she is a fan favorite but killed her off...LOL. 

[theOAfc]

Well,if i am to believe she is back due to bts and her team pushing for more , then i can believe they killed her off because they  had issues with the actress, whether the character had a big fanbase or not. lol

[Cleanqueen]

She creates more buzz than the newbies because she was on the show since day 1 and has fans who like her. The newbies haven't established a solid fanbase and most of them get buzz from Felicity fans as well.

I think paps would be more inclined to know what we really went down than us and all of them say she was fired and had issues with he cast and crew. 

[Velocity23]

Didnt the paps say that the TPTB knew from the pilot that KC wasn't the right fit. They tried to rewrite the character, write the character out but the network said no.

[theOAfc]

14 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I think paps would be more inclined to know what we really went down than us and all of them say she was fired and had issues with he cast and crew. 

Thats fair but i wouldnt pay much attention to what CG and his friends have to say(if thats the paps youre talking about) outside of spoilers about the show's filming locations and storylines. CG used to say that noone likes Emily from the cast and that Colton pretended to be friends with her. He tends to spread lies about bts when it comes to actors he doesnt like or he tries to analyse facts to prove that actor "X" is cruella de vil or that his opinion on a certain actor is valid because "Y" person said something. He used to say that Emily never stops to talk to fans or that she is always rude to them even though quite a few photos pop up from time to time from fans that talk to her in public areas. He specificaly mentions one incident with a French fan and EMily in Van outside of the arrow set, as an  example all the time, whenever people question his words about Emily being rude and a "b@tch"(his words).

So they could do the same with KC. Not that i dont think there was some bts that went down with her and EPs. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by theOAfc

[Lily-n11]

(I'm so glad I took this screenshot last year.) This was a comment by Canadagraphs.

With all the rumors as early as season 1/2 I'm inclinded to believe "past & current crew". I believe a lot of things re: KC / LL have to do with bts-stuff.

I went looking for pap comments and found these:

Q: is KC back for season 6 of arrow?   A: This Season.. last 2 eps #22 & #23 #Arrow

Q: Do you have any idea what she could be playing??   A: The last character she played.. #MostLikely 

[calliope1975]

I guess I have to resign myself to the possibility that KC just. won't. leave. If so, I better be pandered to so hard with Olicity that I get sick of them. 

[theOAfc]

If they bring her back for good and make her BS redemption a big story for next year(instead of a small arc that will take max 3 episodes) im gonna laugh so hard. Its gonna harm the show imo,because once you kill a character you should let go.