Spoiler Discussion Thread

[AyChihuahua]

Just now, Mellowyellow said:

Hehe well they don't seem to be doing too well with those people either judging by the ratings.

I really think they'll hit .5 soon. I'm just not sure which relevant parties, in which power positions, care at this point.

[statsgirl]

I don't think that MG is deliberately writing for the comic book fan but this season has been such a mess, with losing the history between characters, Oliver a robot, all the newbies and now Dinah suddenly Oliver's BFF and confidante after one episode, Diggle and Lance trying to make Wild Puppy happen and Felicity just all around awful, the people who watch the show for the longterm storyline are going to bail and they'll be left with those who think that anyone with a comic book name is awesome.

Edited February 8, 2017 by statsgirl

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, AyChihuahua said:

I really think they'll hit .5 soon. I'm just not sure which relevant parties, in which power positions, care at this point.

My husband is a normal general viewer (sees all the DC Marvel movies after the crowds at the cinemas die down, watches the cartoons, doesn't read comics) and he's given up on Arrow. He reckons they need to either be an actual good show (see Lethal Weapon) or be like LoT (campy, fun, doesn't take itself seriously). He thinks Arrow is ridiculous but doesn't know it's ridiculous!

[dtissagirl]

8 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

There are a ton of people who "like" comic books/comic characters, but aren't comics buyers. That's who I think they're going for, which is probably a big overlap with the general audience. The people who go to various Marvel/DC movies, but don't buy tickets beforehand or stand in line the night before.

Yes, the goal is to capture people in the superhero zeitgeist -- if they're young and male, even better -- that hopefully will be into watching superheroes on a smaller scale on television. All of the superhero shows are going after these same audience, more or less.

This idea that anyone writing for tv is targeting any show at comic book die hards is bananas. There's no way to target comic book buyers specifically because 1. there's nobody doing demo on comic book buyers, for all we know they're all over 50 and out of the demo, and there's no possible way to cross check who buys comics with who watches the show live, and 2. a really great selling comic book does 100k-150k issues a month. That's 5 to 10% of Arrow's current audience.

[LeighAn]

Remember how 5x10 spoilers caused spec about how the episode was going to be an Oliver Laurel love fest and not good for Olicity - and then it turned out to be one of the best Olicity eps of the season. 

Remember how 5x11 dialogue between Tinah and Oliver was veiwer as flirty/romantic and not good for Olicity - and then the scene in action was a generic nothing special bonding scene and Stephen barely cracked a smile.

Im sure 5x12 won't be as bad as people's worst fears as well but anyway...

Im not thrilled that Tinah is being shoved in our faces but I'm also not surprised as they've shoved all the newbies in our faces this season why would she be any different?

And they want to establish the comic book partnership between GA and BC so having Oliver open up to Tinah about two people he loves and is worried about is probably nothing more then a way to show "Oliver and Tinah- greatest partners"

It's completely unearned but they want to rush Tinah through and skip the whole origin build up thing ergo she has instant position of trust.

Also I'm reserving judgement on the Oliver/Felicity moment till I see it because it may just be a good thing if it's played liked 2x06 Showing Felicity affected which would highlight to Oliver she's not over him. Olicity can't get back together while they are still in polite civility limbo where they aren't sure if their friends or not where they stand, if they want to be more then that or not. Something needs to break the shell.

Im going to wait for context.

Edited February 8, 2017 by LeighAn

[Mellowyellow]

12 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

 

Also I'm reserving judgement on the Oliver/Felicity moment till I see it because it may just be a good thing if it's played liked 2x06 Showing Felicity affected which would highlight to Oliver she's not over him. Olicity can't get back together while they are still in polite civility limbo where they aren't sure if their friends or not where they stand, if they want to be more then that or not. Something needs to break the shell.

Im going to wait for context.

I didn't even have to wait for your therapeutic post!!! I actually was ok with that particular spoiler. Any reaction from Felicity is better than the polite non reaction we've been getting all season. 

I just hope it's not a love triangle of doom in s6. One great thing they did was there was never a love triangle with Laurel.

[strikera0]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

BTW make of this what you want, I was told back in September (and I PM'd a few people here about it when I found out) that Willa's role in (at least) 5A was being cutback because of onset antics starting towards the end of S4 filming. The EPs gave her a timeout to get her shit together.  

I can't say I am surprised to hear this. Sometimes, Willa uploads these weird ass pictures onto her Instagram account and the photos usually disappear as quickly as they pop up, which has always made me wonder if she's high or drunk when sharing them. Whatever it is, I hope she can beat her demons and come back stronger than before. 

[insomniadreams88]

So SA posted 2 truths and 1 lie about "the next batch of episodes" in his FB Q&A:

Quote

"What happens in Russia stays in Russia is referenced. I go an entire episode without putting the new arrow suit on. We don't reveal who Prometheus is."

I'm assuming first 2 are the truths (especially since we know the first one is true and he specifies "new arrow suit"), last 1 is the lie. 

Edited February 8, 2017 by insomniadreams88

[Chaser]

I have a feeling I'm going to continue to watch the BTS stuff even after I stop watching the show. Like a car wreck.

[Starfish35]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

So SA posted 2 truths and 1 lie about "the next batch of episodes" in his FB Q&A:

I'm assuming first 2 are the truths (especially since we know the first one is true and he specifies "new arrow suit"), last 1 is the lie. 

So the last one being a lie means they do reveal who Prometheus is?

[dtissagirl]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I have a feeling I'm going to continue to watch the BTS stuff even after I stop watching the show. Like a car wreck.

It's way more entertaining than the show.

[Chaser]

What is the "next batch" of episodes? 12-14? 12-15?

[LeighAn]

10 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

 

I just hope it's not a love triangle of doom in s6. One great thing they did was there was never a love triangle with Laurel.

If Marc is saying they didn't like how they dismantled the Oliver and Felicity  relationship because of the drama and they've also been avoiding for the most part romantic drama this season then I seriously doubt they will embrace a love triangle back and forth storyline that is like the most unnecessary melodramatic thing a show can do.

I think the writers will pick a side and make the other a complete non entity. So if they want Oliver with Tinah then he will be with her and Felicity will be aOkay with it two thumbs up and vice versa. 

Based on the way this season has been written and the writers quotes I seriously doubt the show will have a TVD type triangle where we watch Oliver try and make up his mind if he loves Felicity or Tinah/Susan and flirty with both options. It just does not fit with the way they have written anything prior.

Id argue season 1 wasn't even written that way as Oliver stayed fairly absent from Tommy/Laurel until the last couple of episodes which were about imploding the Oliver/Laurel romance anyway.

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

So the last one being a lie means they do reveal who Prometheus is?

I guess? I'm so confused about Prometheus' identity. I feel like we're told that they've revealed who he is and then in the next interview - or stuff like this - they talk like they haven't revealed who he is yet. 

[Chaser]

3 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

It's way more entertaining than the show.

KC was announced for HVFF in March and I'm super curious if they do an Arrow panel and try to sell the whole "LL was such an important part of the show, we should talk about Tinah."

[apinknightmare]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

I guess? I'm so confused about Prometheus' identity. I feel like we're told that they've revealed who he is and then in the next interview - or stuff like this - they talk like they haven't revealed who he is yet. 

I think he could be Clayborne's son and also someone whose face we would (or will) recognize, either because he has been on the show or will be on the show under a different name. Otherwise there wouldn't be any point of still keeping his face covered and his voice distorted. 

[Chaser]

I swear they are still trying to lock down Worf for the part.

[strikera0]

Quote

Where were you? Did you take Dinah somewhere?
Yeah. Not like that. 
It's okay.
What happens in Russia stays in Russia, remember?

Of course. Instead of writing some Felicity/Dinah scenes that would actually pass the Bechdel test, the writers are immediately going down the well-travelled soap opera road again. Sigh, why does the Arrow writing staff have to be so shiet?

Edited February 8, 2017 by strikera0

[LeighAn]

5 minutes ago, Chaser said:

KC was announced for HVFF in March and I'm super curious if they do an Arrow panel and try to sell the whole "LL was such an important part of the show, we should talk about Tinah."

I'm actually wondering when Juliana will be announced for a HVFF appearance. 

[Mellowyellow]

Is EBR going or is she up in the mountains again?

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is EBR going or is she up in the mountains again?

EBR doesn't do HVFF cons. She usually does one or two small European cons a year during her hiatus.

[BkWurm1]

9 hours ago, Sunshine said:

D.C. Access makes it sound like 5.12 is Felicity/Curtis/Rory & Lance/Rene.  Are the other 3 just muscle?

5.13 Highlights Rene.

5.14 Sounds like girls, girls, girls.

If Oliver isn't featured maybe that's why they are really good.  5.15 is probably a return to Oliver so I'm sure it'll be exceptional.

We seem to be in the dreaded middle section of Arrow alright.  I'm trying to remind myself that except season one where I actually liked the show better in the middle to back half, I always every year wonder if the show has gone to shite this time of the season.  

6 hours ago, YonkouProdutiona said:

I'm getting the impression that the ones referring to Susan as Oliver's girlfriend will be Rene and Lance.  Which only says to me that Oliver and Susan totally had sex back in 5-9 and the denial was just them walking back Oliver looking like an ass. Otherwise they went from just a casual work date to a drink and a kiss followed by nothing for two episodes and at least a month time jump but now they are totally all in and dating?  Yeah, they totally had sex.  

[AyChihuahua]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm getting the impression that the ones referring to Susan as Oliver's girlfriend will be Rene and Lance.  Which only says to me that Oliver and Susan totally had sex back in 5-9 and the denial was just them walking back Oliver looking like an ass. Otherwise they went from just a casual work date to a drink and a kiss followed by nothing for two episodes and at least a month time jump but now they are totally all in and dating?  Yeah, they totally had sex.  

Oh in-show they 100% had sex.

[ladylaw99]

I don't know why these writers don't own the shit they write.  They are always back peddling and trying to explain things and all they do is make it worst. You wrote it so own it.

[wonderwall]

33 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm getting the impression that the ones referring to Susan as Oliver's girlfriend will be Rene and Lance.  Which only says to me that Oliver and Susan totally had sex back in 5-9 and the denial was just them walking back Oliver looking like an ass. Otherwise they went from just a casual work date to a drink and a kiss followed by nothing for two episodes and at least a month time jump but now they are totally all in and dating?  Yeah, they totally had sex.  

IDK if anyone said nothing happened between them. Just that nothing happened in episode 9.

[BkWurm1]

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

IDK if anyone said nothing happened between them. Just that nothing happened in episode 9.

I'm pretty sure nothing was supposed to have happened prior to 5-09 since the Xmas party was barely a date and came with denials.  

[wonderwall]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

I'm pretty sure nothing was supposed to have happened prior to 5-09 since the Xmas party was barely a date and came with denials.  

I mean... to be fair though, you can have sex and not technically go on a date lol

Ah - Suzy and Oliver...........

[BkWurm1]

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I mean... to be fair though, you can have sex and not technically go on a date lol

Ah - Suzy and Oliver...........

True.  Honestly the closest I come to caring is only because of the showrunner's denials.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

True.  Honestly the closest I come to caring is only because of the showrunner's denials.

If that scene really was meant to convey sex and they changed their tune because of fandom outcry over the shittiness of it, they're lucky that this was the one time they actually didn't follow with more like removal of clothing or something beyond that kiss to indicate what was going on. 

[finnaire]

Ouzy?

I think they may have forgotten about the bigass Bratva tattoo Ollie is sporting on his breast and the retraction was to avoid the obvious obstacles (hijinx?) that would ensue if she saw it.

[AyChihuahua]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

If that scene really was meant to convey sex and they changed their tune because of fandom outcry over the shittiness of it, they're lucky that this was the one time they actually didn't follow with more like removal of clothing or something beyond that kiss to indicate what was going on. 

I figured Oliver and Felicity had sex after the pillar kissing in 401 and after the yin-yang kiss, and no clothes were removed.

Lingerie, booze, late at night, kissing, him wearing the same clothes the next day...

Just now, finnaire said:

Ouzy?

I think they may have forgotten about the bigass Bratva tattoo Ollie is sporting on his breast and the retraction was to avoid the obvious obstacles (hijinx?) that would ensue if she saw it.

He had sex with a cop in S1, though. 

I expect it'll be an issue if they want it to be an issue. Otherwise it'll be ignored.

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, AyChihuahua said:

I figured Oliver and Felicity had sex after the pillar kissing in 401 and after the yin-yang kiss, and no clothes were removed.

Yeah, but they were an established couple who were living together at the time - first-time sex on this show has always included follow through. 

2 minutes ago, finnaire said:

I think they may have forgotten about the bigass Bratva tattoo Ollie is sporting on his breast and the retraction was to avoid the obvious obstacles (hijinx?) that would ensue if she saw it.

That's why I figured they actually hadn't had sex - because surely the Bratva tattoo would be a point of interest that they'd want to anvil about, so surely we'd see Susan's first reaction to it? But...I wouldn't believe they've been dating all this while and still haven't had sex, so...guess not.

[wonderwall]

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

first-time sex on this show has always included follow through. 

Laurel, Sara, Felicity, Helena, McKenna, Isabel, Felicity/Ray, Felicity/Billy, Thea/Roy all had follow through (not necessarily the first time for all of them)... IDK why this would be different.

[finnaire]

Plenty of people saw the tattoo back in season 1 and it wasn't an issue.  But, this is the season he actually gets it - is that the upcoming shirtless scene? - so I think it has more importance to them. And this is the woman who is investigating his Russian connections so I would think that would be a huge reveal for her to see it.

[statsgirl]

Lots of people have seen it -- but Susan would know what it means.

But then, Oliver doesn't know she's investigating him so he wouldn't hesitate to show it to her any more than he did with Helena or Isabel or Sara.

[insomniadreams88]

38 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

That's why I figured they actually hadn't had sex - because surely the Bratva tattoo would be a point of interest that they'd want to anvil about, so surely we'd see Susan's first reaction to it? But...I wouldn't believe they've been dating all this while and still haven't had sex, so...guess not.

I mean, Oliver's been busy with Black Siren and then going to Hub City to recruit Tinah, so maybe they haven't had sex? I think it all depends on how much time has passed between the end of 5x10 and the beginning of 5x12. Maybe they want the first time to be onscreen so that Susan can comment, "Hey, isn't that a Russian tattoo?" and Oliver can think nothing of it for now and then they can give an interview and go, "Oh, you noticed that?" 

We also still don't know the context of Susan being called Oliver's girlfriend. They seem to love (choking through) calling Billy Felicity's BF and Susan Oliver's GF a lot this season, more times in one episode than I think they ever called anyone on this show someone's GF/BF/etc. combined. 

[LeighAn]

I'm totally here for this side mission. I'm betting it's going to be a hell of a lot more fun and charming then that ~other one.

https://mobile.twitter.com/lyricalarrow/status/829060733375754240/photo/1

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

I'm totally here for this side mission. I'm betting it's going to be a hell of a lot more fun and charming then that ~other one.

https://mobile.twitter.com/lyricalarrow/status/829060733375754240/photo/1

All I have to say is that if Oliver can go off on side missions with Tinah and not tell the others, if he doesn't know about the Felicity/Rory/Curtis one, I don't want to see any protests from him. 

[Chaser]

I would understand Felicity keeping her little undercover under wraps, it works with her storyline and Oliver would clearly have a problem with it. Oliver going on a side mission and keeping it a secret, that I don't understand.

[LeighAn]

We don't know that either Felicity or Oliver are keeping their side missions secret though. I mean in the dialogue Felicity asks if Oliver went somewhere with Tinah and he tells her yes straight away. So it doesn't sound like he's keeping it a secret from anyone just that he went somewhere with Tinah and didn't tell Felicity beforehand. Possibly because Felicity is off doing her own thing on the side with Helix and Rory/Curtis.

They are both not working on the same wavelength or together as partners which will probably ended up being the point when it all comes to head and they confront their issues. 

[statsgirl]

But it's typical of Oliver to go off on a side mission on his own.  But this time  he's taking his new BFF, Tinah.

Diggle beats up someone so it makes sense that Oliver gives him the "don't be like me, I'm past saving" talk.  But if he doesn't know about Pandora, why would he give it to Felicity?

I hope they give the Felicity/Rory/Curtis plot justice.  It's the one I'm interested in.

[Sunshine]

He knows something is up with Felicity. She was making "Oliver" moves in 5.10.  They're in a room together and it's a general conversion?

[LeighAn]

I think they've done a reasonable (for their low bar) job that Oliver knows that somethings up with Felicity. He may not know what it is but he knows somethings going on with her. He brings it up in both 5x10 and 5x11 but with all his faux canary drama and Felicity playing it off he hasn't done any follow up investigating. 

Oliver has so far come from a place of worry and concern for Felicity rather then judgement. For instance he got up in her face about letting out Black Siren but it lead to him showing genuine worry that she could have been hurt. So I'm okay with that.

Maybe something happening in 5x12 will be the first overt sign he gets that Felicity is in a precarious place. Which is why he gives her the Don't be me talk.

Im just happy that for all the Tinahs and Susan's it's still Felicity that's all over his radar and he doesn't like that there's something going on with her that he doesn't know about and presumably can't help her with. 

I guess that's why I'm not to upset over the Tinah and Oliver scene because it's not Oliver opening up up her about intimate moments and feelings about himself like you would to a lover-like Oliver does with Felicity numerous times including this season.

Its Oliver opening up to Tinah about how worried and concerned he is about the two people he loves and cares deeply about. He has to have that conversation with somebody so the audience can see him vocalise his concerns, and that somebody has to then give him a pep talk as a precursor to his speech appealing to Diggle and Felicity.

And when deciding who to pick the writers figured why not make it the current newbie flavour of the month we are desperately trying to shove down our audiences throats. It's not subtle but these writers can write like sledge hammers. So I'm just going to roll my eyes at it and move on.

Im more annoyed at Oliver making he's concerns about his loved ones about his own man pain but hey that's Flarrowverse for ya.

[Mellowyellow]

I haven't seen this week's ep of Flash yet but you know what would be awesome?

If the writers just maintained a Barry-Caitlin dynamic between Oliver and Tinah and let Olicity be together. That would make me happy and forgive them for anything stupid they could ever come up with in future seasons. 

But alas if wishes were horses and all that jazz.

[LeighAn]

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I haven't seen this week's ep of Flash yet but you know what would be awesome?

If the writers just maintained a Barry-Caitlin dynamic between Oliver and Tinah and let Olicity be together. That would make me happy and forgive them for anything stupid they could ever come up with in future seasons. 

But alas if wishes were horses and all that jazz.

I think that exactly is the plan though. They will have Tinah and Oliver be bffs in the field and bestest partners eva without all the romantic baggage the last two Canaries came with. 

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

I think that exactly is the plan though. They will have Tinah and Oliver be bffs in the field and bestest partners eva without all the romantic baggage the last two Canaries came with. 

Don't make me hope for things that may not happen dammnit!!!!!!!

I NEED like the next 5 eps to see what the intent is.

I'm worried they want to start a shipping war to maintain their ratings. Do you think they will commit either way? I need them to commit so I can either keep watching or be freeeeeeeeee once I wean myself off Felicity (I will get there!)

I love the Barry - Caitlin, Caitlin - Cisco dynamic and you CANT argue anything romantic about it but I love it when they are there for each other. 

[LeighAn]

Look Im not denying the possibility for things to go the other way but right now I don't see any "testing" that has been claimed nor do I particularly buy into the conspiracy theories as it seems based on fear spec then actual evidence. I guess we'll all just have to keep watching and see where the show goes I guess. We will know their intentions soon enough. *shrug*

All I'm counting on is that the show is far from done writing Olicity and even though it's not the romantic buildup writing we were use to in season 3-4 they are still exploring the dynamics of and tension within Oliver and Felicitys relationship this season even if it's a lot more subtler then in the past. And I guess I take heart that dealing with that is a promising sign that their dynamic is still important and still matters thematically to the show. That the fact that Olicity is so unresolved is because the writers still have story to tell between them.

I mean I'm well aware I could be in for a world of disappointment too- I think if there no romantic beats or reunion by the season 5 finale between Oliver and Felicity and there are between replacementCanary then perhaps it's anyone's game. 

But Id argue that they've already placed romantic beats in the show like the talk with Diggle in 5x01, Felicitys look of pride in 5x01, the mortal lock talk in 5x05, the flashes in 5x08, the red pen in 5x09 and the bonding in 5x10 as hang in theres. 

[BkWurm1]

34 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I love the Barry - Caitlin, Caitlin - Cisco dynamic and you CANT argue anything romantic about it but I love it when they are there for each other

In the first season there would have been those that would have argued romance as a possibility.  I heard stuff even last year.  Three years is a long time to wait to get the right dynamic.

[bijoux]

I'm not sure who posted this originally, but it tracks with the rest we know about the episode.

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I'm not sure who posted this originally, but it tracks with the rest we know about the episode.

He tried to help Roy as well.  Let's repeat all the character beats.