Spoiler Discussion Thread

[tv echo]

 I want to say Paul, but who knows.

Curtis introduced his husband as "Paul" in 409, so you're correct.

 

I've put Quentin back on top of my "who's in the grave" list.  Felicity's extreme anger could be due to other things, such as her mother and/or her team member(s) being critically injured in the same attack that kills Quentin.  Barry's presence could just be to support his friends.  The shocking game-changer could refer to the consequences of Quentin's death (for example, maybe someone bad takes over the SCPD, or maybe someone leaves Star City as a result).  

 

At this point, I'm on the anyone-but-Diggle train.

Edited January 29, 2016 by tv echo

[Belinea]

I guess the only way I'd accept Diggle in the grave is if DR wanted out. Maybe to spend more time with his family because as far as I can tell they live in LA. But I'd really hate for Oliver to lose his best male friend again. And Barry knows Lance, doesn't he? 

[Chaser]

Maybe that's the offer Nyssa makes. She may know a way to depower DD.

 

They arrest DD and charge him with the attempted murder of Oliver Queen and Felicity Smoak?

[NumberCruncher]

At this point, I'm on the anyone-but-Diggle train.

This. Sadly, I have a hard time believing Felicity would be that distraught over anyone other than Diggle or her mother so I fear Digg is the target of TPTB's latest death boner since Donna isn't a "major character." I'm gonna be pissed if it happens though--especially since the OTA dynamic is the show's strongest aspect and what keeps the show centered through all of the crazy shit.

[Velocity23]

I find it more suprising Barry wouldnt check up on Felicity if Donna was injured and Lance was killed :S

[bijoux]

I find it more suprising Barry wouldnt check up on Felicity if Donna was injured and Lance was killed :S

He čould have sped over to the limo while Oliver was letting the single tear fall cinematically.

[dtissagirl]

I think there are ways to make Felicity's anger work for anyone, for example if they die saving her life, or Donna's.

[Velocity23]

I feel Felicitys anger refers to Merlyn. And has nothing to do with Darkh.

[Carrie Ann]

This. Sadly, I have a hard time believing Felicity would be that distraught over anyone other than Diggle or her mother so I fear Digg is the target of TPTB's latest death boner since Donna isn't a "major character."

 

Even if I thought that there was some clue to be found in the nuance of EBR's performance there--which I don't because I doubt she had any direction beyond "Felicity is sad and angry about someone being killed"--I don't share this feeling, because I saw way, way more emotion from Felicity over Sara's death and over Roy leaving town than what I saw in the back of the limo. And we can fill in as many blanks as we want to about those relationships, but if we're going to do that, then you can fill in those blanks for her relationships with Thea, Laurel, and Quentin as well. I'm not saying it's NOT someone she's very close to, but I am saying that IMO she would definitely react that way if Lance was killed, for example, especially if he died in a particularly heroic or tragic or vicious way.

[tangerine95]

I don't have a problem believing that Felicity would react that way for anyone on the team. A little harder to buy that she would for Lance but I wouldn't put it past them.After her reaction to Sara dying I don't really think it has to be someone like her mother to get that reaction.

[tarotx]

Well they can always go with the "Him" being Calculator which means Felicity's reaction is because it's her father that turns out the real big bad. Not that I think it will be but just saying we can't tell anything from what we know. And Barry could be there just because team Arrow asked for his help but he was too busy fighting his own big bad.

[statsgirl]

I don't think EBR knew at that point who was in the grave, if she even knows now.  They probably just told her to be very sad and angry.

[Chaser]

I'm trying to tell myself that the social media expansion is a positive for Diggle. With The CW struggling, I would think it would want to pocket their biggest hits on those platforms. OTA is a pretty big thing on social media. I honestly don't think they would want to mess with that dynamic.

[Chaser]

I think over the next mini hiatus, or even sooner, we are going to get reports of CR being back on set or at least returning.

 

I have a feeling that is going to be the death episode. Even if it's not Lance, its a troll move.

[dtissagirl]

They'll be filming 419-420 during the hiatus between 415 and 416, so yep, that makes sense.

 

Anyway, since I looked it up, here are projected filming dates:

 

417: Feb 2 - Feb 12 [Feb 8 = holiday]

418: Feb 15 - Feb 24

419: Feb 25 - March 7

420: March 8 - March 17

421: March 18 - March 30 [March 25 = holiday]

422: March 31 - April 11

423: April 12 - April 21

 

I'm off by one day [bC Filming Commission lists last day as April 22], probably missed another holiday. But let's all start REALLY looking at social media for clues the day after 415 airs. LOOOOL. That hiatus is gonna be SO MUCH FUN.

[nksarmi]

I think Felicity's anger is best explained by who the "him" is rather than who is in the grave.  I think Oliver's reaction rules out it being Thea.  I mean, I really, really think she is in the clear.

 

I don't think Diggle is 100% in the clear, but I really don't think it's him.  There are show reasons (he really is Oliver's conscious as Lyla once pointed out to him) and there are real life reasons (I'm not saying this show can't kill a black actor, just that it shouldn't).  And then there's the whole leaving baby Sara without a father in the same season that they address Oliver's kid, Felicity's dad, and Diggle pushing Andy to reconnect with his kid?  That would be over-the-top tacky - even for these people. So no - just no.

 

For me - at present - it's 95% Lance; 4% Donna (which would just be really mean to Felicity show), and 1% Laurel (I just don't buy it).

[Velocity23]

Charlotte Ross is back in Vancouver. Probably for 4x17.

https://twitter.com/charlotteross/status/693220228931543041

[Chaser]

I feel like they just started 4x16.

[Velocity23]

They finished filming 4x15 last Thursday. According to the script page they film 4x16 till Monday.

[kismet]

DR talked about a wedding, called Oliver Felicity's husband and liked a photo of the hotel ballroom on IG. Idk what any of this means.

I think there will be a wedding, I just don't think it will be the official O/F wedding. And if they go through with a O/F wedding and then explode the BMD to break them up, I will really lose it. I don't mind fake & halluci-weddings. But I hate gimmicky weddings that are done for the sole purpose of drama. Blowing up and having wedding come to a sudden end without an actual ceremony for me would be fine. However, if I have to sit through another ceremony that comes to completion that was done just for the writers to toy with us, I'm gonna be very UPSET with the show. AWOL was a really an amazing episode & I couldn't even enjoy it because of the writers shenanigans, I don't need that to be a running scenario.

[chaos is welcome]

Well they can always go with the "Him" being Calculator which means Felicity's reaction is because it's her father that turns out the real big bad. Not that I think it will be but just saying we can't tell anything from what we know. And Barry could be there just because team Arrow asked for his help but he was too busy fighting his own big bad.

I really like this idea and the conflict involved.

[kismet]

I was wondering just the other day whether the good doctor from the pilot ordered a brain scan.

Why bother??? If we knew his brain was fine, we wouldn't a possible brain condition to blame for his memory lapses/problems. Don't scan what you don't want to know. Plus, we need more medical dramas for future seasons... Perhaps they can give him a brain tumor a few seasons from now just to fill up some episodes when they need that extra jolt of predictable "creative" & "game-changing" twist. 

Edited January 30, 2016 by kismet

[Morrigan2575]

Publicity stills are out for 4.12 but I can't find a source

[apinknightmare]

Creepy that Dad is standing right next to Oliver at what appears to be some kind of announcement of whatever it is that Roy's going to steal, yes?

[Morrigan2575]

I know it's not a board meeting but it seems like Felicity is announcing the new tech that's going to save PT in this episode, which seems off. I'm guessing that Calculator is there to spy the tech and then blackmails Roy into steeling it.

[kismet]

Seriously, if the death ends up being a third or fourth-tier character, what's the downside? The audience and reviewers call shenanigans, and keep watching. Ratings would not be at all affected.

 

Personally, I'm convinced it'll be a regular, mostly bc of the timing of the Guggie/Mericle visit, but if it's not a regular, I don't see much of a downside from their perspective. (Still think it's Quentin, who, as has been pointed out, has been a regular since the Pilot.)

I'm still thinking that they could easily pull a switch and not have the death be a big thing or important person. I don't really see a downside to them chickening out. They'll take a little heat from critics and fans, but they'll survive. No major hurt will come to the show.

 

But the fact that MG/WM visited the set makes me believe it might be somebody more important, like a regular. I love PB, but didn't they simply call ST on the phone?? PB to me seems like someone they just might call, since with his age & lack of mask he must know he is on the chopping block. An on-set visit is a breaking promises & crushed dreams scenario. I hate to tempt fate but it sounds like something they would have to do for KC, who has been promised so much from day 1 and has been consistently getting a bigger shaft every season. Her character shrinking and shrinking, despite giving her a mask. Her journey finally coming to an end after so many broken promises is something an on-set visitation would ease the pain of, especially since this death will probably have to stick.

[Guest]

Color me intrigued! Very strange that Felicity's dad is standing right next to Oliver. Seems like Oliver is there to show support to Felicity but wouldn't she recognize her dad? Also, if Calculator is actually there at PT to steal tech or whatever, that means he must know his daughter runs the company and he's actually gonna steal from her. Dad of the year!

[AyChihuahua]

I know it's not a board meeting but it seems like Felicity is announcing the new tech that's going to save PT in this episode, which seems off. I'm guessing that Calculator is there to spy the tech and then blackmails Roy into steeling it.

Could just be announcing her full-time return to PT. 

[Chaser]

Excited to see Calculator next to Oliver. I wasn't thinking he was going to be out in civilian clothes like that, at least not for this episode. I figured Calculator wouldn't know he was up against his daughter, but if he is at PT he has to know he is stealing from his daughter. Or as Angel12d said. Lol

But I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't recognize her father.

Cobalt blue is a good color on Arrow. Laurel looked good in it last episode and Felicity in this one.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Chaser

[lemotomato]

Color me intrigued! Very strange that Felicity's dad is standing right next to Oliver. Seems like Oliver is there to show support to Felicity but wouldn't she recognize her dad? Also, if Calculator is actually there at PT to steal tech or whatever, that means he must know his daughter runs the company and he's actually gonna steal from her. Dad of the year!

Maybe she does see him in the crowd and they have a scene after the announcement? They'll probably have Calculator and Overwatch battle it out without either of them knowing their real identities.

[AyChihuahua]

If I hadn't seen my dad for 20 years, I'm not sure I'd recognize him. Tom Amandes looks great.

 

Unless Donna changed their last name, though, he has to know who she is.

 

Hate seeing Felicity in a wheelchair.

Edited January 30, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[wonderwall]

Seeing these promo photos... It makes me wonder what they're even doing with Thea... I know she lands back in the hospital in the next few episodes and that might make her death overkill, but what if it IS her? Because apparently she can be replaced with someone like Roy... 

[kismet]

Just excited to see Roy back & buckled up for action!

 

Really wonder what will sideline TQ. I wonder if she will be hurt and hospitalized because she goes after DD to "demagicify" DD with her magical touch.

[Morrigan2575]

Color me intrigued! Very strange that Felicity's dad is standing right next to Oliver. Seems like Oliver is there to show support to Felicity but wouldn't she recognize her dad? Also, if Calculator is actually there at PT to steal tech or whatever, that means he must know his daughter runs the company and he's actually gonna steal from her. Dad of the year!

Based on the way WM talked about it she might not.

[Sunshine]

Do you think Roy gets out of 4.12 alive?  If so does he lose an arm?  There's that scene where the C4 doesn't go off and they're going to have to explode it manually.  A female voice (Laurel?) says someone has to stay behind.

[tangerine95]

I'm suprised to see her dad with Oliver and at what looks like PT.I was expecting him to be behind a computer most of this episode at least tbh.

Yeah it sucks seeing Felicity in a wheelchair.They did a really good job this episode and it was so much better than I was expecting but I still hate seeing that.Hoping she gets cured before the break up.

They're really pushing it with Thea being in hospitals and almost dying lol.But her ending up like that in this episode probably eliminates her from being in the grave imo.Though I already didn't think it would be her.She can be replaced with Roy and Roy can be replaced by Thea on the team.All those new masks seem to be easily replaceble to me because all they bring to the team is more muscle really.Thea being Oliver's sister and only remaining family(i don't count the kid and never will lol) is what makes her hard to replace and keeps her safe imo.

Edited January 30, 2016 by tangerine95

[Morrigan2575]

Do you think Roy gets out of 4.12 alive? If so does he lose an arm? There's that scene where the C4 doesn't go off and they're going to have to explode it manually. A female voice (Laurel?) says someone has to stay behind.

I hope they don't kill Roy and I hope they don't take his arm. I wouldn't put.it.past them but I don't really see the point except Because Comics which is.just stupid/annoying (IMO)

ETA: I'm missing something. How do we know Thea ends up in the hospital in 412?

Edited January 30, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Guest]

Hmm. Definitely interested in seeing how this plays out. Sounds like Felicity and Calculator will both be surprised at who they're fighting. 

 

And Curtis better start working on some magic tech soon because I'm sorry but I hate that Felicity is in that wheelchair. I'll never get used to it. Nope. 

 

It is weird that Thea is nowhere to be seen and Roy is seemingly in her place. 

[wonderwall]

As a lowkey Thea/Roy shipper I'm really really really hoping to see them fight together... If not.. Ugh...

 

ETA: Just found out that Thea lands in the hospital this episode... 

 

again....

Edited January 30, 2016 by wonderwall

[SleepDeprived]

ETA: I'm missing something. How do we know Thea ends up in the hospital in 412?

 

There's a shot of Thea fighting Ghosts(?) on the rooftop on the promos for this episode. I think it's the same rooftop in that mid-season sizzle promo where she fell off. So, whatever's happening on that rooftop where Thea falls over the edge (Thea was unconscious when Oliver grabs her hand) is what will sideline her for Roy to be able to suit up again. I think it's something related to the bloodlust that lands Thea back in the hospital. Also, Oliver was wearing the same suit when Malcolm pretty much called him a a dumb pretty boy as the one he was wearing with Thea at the hospital. Guessing Oliver asks Malcolm for help about Thea's bloodlust.

[way2interested]

Do you think Roy gets out of 4.12 alive?  If so does he lose an arm?  There's that scene where the C4 doesn't go off and they're going to have to explode it manually.  A female voice (Laurel?) says someone has to stay behind.

I think he'll be fine. Scene probably goes starting with that still of the four of them next to the C4, then they realize that someone has to explode it manually. Roy offers himself because he reasons that the world already thinks he's dead. Then, explosion! But then, Roy makes it out just in time (he's seen zip-lining away from an explosion in the extended promo for 410-412/413, and then he probably has a goodbye scene with Thea at Laurel's apartment.

Edited January 30, 2016 by way2interested

[Morrigan2575]

There's a shot of Thea fighting Ghosts(?) on the rooftop on the promos for this episode. I think it's the same rooftop in that mid-season sizzle promo where she fell off. So, whatever's happening on that rooftop where Thea falls over the edge (Thea was unconscious when Oliver grabs her hand) is what will sideline her for Roy to be able to suit up again. I think it's something related to the bloodlust that lands Thea back in the hospital. Also, Oliver was wearing the same suit when Malcolm pretty much called him a a dumb pretty boy as the one he was wearing with Thea at the hospital. Guessing Oliver asks Malcolm for help about Thea's bloodlust.

Thanks for the explanation

[apinknightmare]

ETA: Just found out that Thea lands in the hospital this episode... 

 

FINAL DESTINATION: STAR(LING) CITY

 

NEAR DEATH IS COMING FOR YOU

 

AND YOU

 

AND YOU 

 

AND THEN FINALLY YOU WILL BITE IT. 

[Sunshine]

I think he'll be fine. Scene probably goes starting with that still of the four of them next to the C4, then they realize that someone has to explode it manually. Roy offers himself because he reasons that the world already thinks he's dead. Then, explosion! But then, Roy makes it out just in time (he's seen zip-lining away from an explosion in the extended promo for 410-412/413, and then he probably has a goodbye scene with Thea at Laurel's apartment.

Good! I was afraid they might do the because comics route and he'd lose an arm.

[Guest]

Okay so this seems like an action-packed episode then. Lots going on.

 

You know, I never gave much weight to the final destination theory but I'm digging it now. I want it. LOL.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Guest

[wonderwall]

FINAL DESTINATION: STAR(LING) CITY

 

NEAR DEATH IS COMING FOR YOU

 

AND YOU

 

AND YOU 

 

AND THEN FINALLY YOU WILL BITE IT. 

 

CALM DOWN @APINKNIGHTMARE

 

I'd add an asterisk at the end and add this

 

*Unless you're Laurel because of comics which is apparently an impenetrable force field

[Morrigan2575]

FINAL DESTINATION: STAR(LING) CITY

NEAR DEATH IS COMING FOR YOU

AND YOU

AND YOU

AND THEN FINALLY YOU WILL BITE IT.

I really love that theory

[Sunshine]

Quentin wasn't involved in the time reset in 4.08.  It doesn't seem fair that death should even consider coming for him at this point. LOL!

[apinknightmare]

CALM DOWN @APINKNIGHTMARE

 

I'd add an asterisk at the end and add this

 

*Unless you're Laurel because of comics which is apparently an impenetrable force field

 

She's one of the near deaths! I didn't count Felicity since the icy hands of the Reaper already reached out and grabbed her. There's one for Laurel, Diggle, Oliver, and Thea - the original timeline deads. 

Quentin wasn't involved in the time reset in 4.08.  It doesn't seem fair that death should even consider coming for him at this point. LOL!

 

Maybe he tagged in for Oliver since we know he's not going anywhere!

[Primal Slayer]

This episode has produced some great looking pictures. Just saw these and they also go along with my favorite of the season

 

Better then some of the actual promotional pics CW takes. Funny how quickly they swapped out Thea for Roy, wonder if we will see them suited up together.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Primal Slayer