Spoiler Discussion Thread

[tangerine95]

I'll be really suprised if there is a pregnancy tbh.Especially if the kid really is Oliver's,I don't see them doing that.Reporters always oversell things anyway and I really think the heartbreaking stuff will have to do with Oliver finding out he has a kid as well as maybe Felicity talking about how her father left her.

[AyChihuahua]

I wouldn't be surprised if she's pregnant. I will be very happy if she isn't.

At this point I will be pleasantly surprised if she's JUST nearly drowned after the car plunges into the bay and temporarily paralyzed.  That's best case scenario right now.  

 

I have to say, I doubt I'm the only viewer who doesn't have the patience for more angst and misery after last season.  There's a breaking point for a show like this.  It's not The Walking Dead.  They pile it on for another season and I have to imagine ratings will suffer.

[apinknightmare]

I'm hoping the heartbreaking has to do with baby mama telling Oliver to get gone. Or maybe Oliver gets himself used to the idea of being a father and is excited about it and then she tells him the kid isn't his.

Problem solved.

[statsgirl]

LOL that the best case scenario is temporary paralysis.

 

I will be very disappointed if there is an unexpected pregnancy. If anyone is smart enough to use birth control, it should be Felicity.

 

ETA:  I agree with apinknightmare about the heartbreak probably having to do with Oliver being excited to be a father and then babymama shutting it down.  He could go to court to force it but he's not that kind of person.

Although I think he probably is the father of the child because that's a future storyline they can use.

Edited December 1, 2015 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

At this point I will be pleasantly surprised if she's JUST nearly drowned after the car plunges into the bay and temporarily paralyzed. That's best case scenario right now.

I have to say, I doubt I'm the only viewer who doesn't have the patience for more angst and misery after last season. There's a breaking point for a show like this. It's not The Walking Dead. They pile it on for another season and I have to imagine ratings will suffer.

Misery is not my fave, and I really don't care to watch a lot more of it on Arrow, but S3 had misery-induced stupidity, and separation and lots of other terrible things. If we're presented with misery that strengthens relationships instead of ripping them to shreds, I think it'll probably be okay.

[AyChihuahua]

I'd be okay with a pregnancy scare that turns out to be nothing.  It's too early in the show and the relationship for them to have a baby, and I don't want an Olicity baby on the show, because I don't want any kids on the show.  (Sara's fine, but again she's the kid of a supporting character so she's barely around except to be cute and silent.)  

 

And heck, for me I would LOVE for the kid not to be Oliver's, so yes please to him getting into the idea and then turning out not to be the dad.  But that doesn't seem "heartbreaking" to me.  (I'd prob even be okay with him being the dad but the mom telling him to GTFO, although for the record if he fought her on that in court he'd almost certainly win at least some kind of visitation.)

 

Also agree that Felicity would be all about birth control.  I have to imagine she ran regular blood tests on Oliver for STDs and has an implant or IUD or some such, bc she's too smart to do otherwise.  But, this is Arrow.  They had her date a guy who stalked, used, and condescended to her.  So who knows.

Misery is not my fave, and I really don't care to watch a lot more of it on Arrow, but S3 had misery-induced stupidity, and separation and lots of other terrible things. If we're presented with misery that strengthens relationships instead of ripping them to shreds, I think it'll probably be okay.

It won't be okay with me.  I'll be gone.  I'm only one person, but I really don't think I'm the only viewer who's done with the misery.  Especially after all the promises of a lighter season and all the apologies for how grimdark and miserable S3 was.

[dtissagirl]

Because this show is this show, I think IF it turns out William is not Oliver's, then the cliffhanger is Felicity is pregnant. The audience will learn about it before Oliver, because they'll milk the hell out of Donna arriving in 409 and figuring it out on her own before Felicity tells Oliver.

 

But please let me be wrong. Ugh. 

[kismet]

Olicity has not been front and center this season at all and I believe that is intentional after last season. The writers I do not believe have any intention of bringing relationship angst to the main story for 2 episodes in a row. I feel like we either have a pregnancy/miscarriage plotline or a temporary paralysis for FS. To do both of them within 2 episodes of each other would kill momentum & use up a storyline for later. I feel like we will have a pregnancy scare at some point, but not in s4a. Because we have seen the wheelchair in BTS photos, I believe it will be a temporary paralysis that the writers will do this season.

 

The 4 words were - Sweet, heartbreaking, mature, changed

 

I think the heartbreaking storyline will be something related to Olicity’s reaction to BabyMama drama. Perhaps the kid is not OQ, which would be heartbreaking. Or maybe they realize that a baby would never be a possibility in their current line of work and that is the heartbreaking realization. Mature would be how they handle the reveal & the aftermath. Changed because they realize that their relationship is more solid than they ever imagined which lines up the proposal in 409. Sweet because that's just a given with Olicity.

[AyChihuahua]

 

I feel like we either have a pregnancy/miscarriage plotline or a temporary paralysis for FS. To do both of them within 2 episodes of each other would kill momentum & use up a storyline for later.

Laura Hurley saw the episodes and she said there is something big, seemingly Olicity-related, NOT the baby mama, that she would change.  So it's something bad for Olicity.  Any paralysis is 4.09, so it's not that.  It's not that the kid isn't his, because that's baby mama-related AND she'd like that, not want to change it.

 

It's like an LSAT logic game, but the answer is something not good.

[looptab]

Could it be that what Laura Hurley would change is Oliver's reaction to the kid? Didn't she write something about not wanting Oliver going immediately into daddy-mode?

Edited December 1, 2015 by looptab

[Guest]

I wish people would stop asking questions on twitter when we're not gonna get specific answers. Why Laura Hurley had to tease anything like that, I don't know. Doesn't exactly get me excited. 

Edited December 1, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

Could it be that what Laura Hurley would change is Oliver's reaction to the kid? Didn't she write something about not wanting Oliver going immediately into daddy-mode?

She said it wasn't about that storyline.

[Chaser]

Did Laura Hurley say it was bad or that she would change it?

 

If Felicity is pregnant, I could see her wanting to change that storyline. However, I don't think the show would frame it as bad for Olicity. I think the show would call it positive and it would prompt the proposal. They wouldn't hurt her in the crossover and 4x09, so I don't think there will be any kind of miscarriage in the crossover.

 

I can see the 'heartbreak' coming from the Baby Mama reveal. That's going to be a hard conversation between Oliver and Felicity. There is no betrayal or cheating or anything of that nature but if I found out that the man I loved had a children with another woman, I would find that hard to hear. I would accept it, but the initial emotion wouldn't be fun.

[looptab]

She said it wasn't about that storyline.

Thought she answered "something more specific"? So I thought it could be Oliver's specific reaction that might have bothered. Anyway just an option, haha. TBH her comment could be about anything, so I'm not freaking out until there's something to freak out about.

[kismet]

I trust most of Laura Hurley's viewpoints on ARROW. So I'll just have to trust that whatever she wants to change. I would have also wanted to change.

 

I respect y’all for wanting to figure out what it could be, or how bad it could be based upon some tweets. But I just can’t be part of that rabbit hole exploration today. Whatever they do, I’m sure they will find someone to undo it or make it inconsequential in a few episodes. So I would have worked myself up into a tizzy for no reason.

 

Honestly, I just hope it’s written & acted well. Misery is not enjoyable to watch. And misery to fuel angst because they are stalling or out of ideas is just frustrating to watch. I’m just gonna wait & see what they have in store for us and hope it is done in a respectful manner.

Edited December 1, 2015 by kismet

[AyChihuahua]

She said it wasn't about that storyline.

Well, someone guessed baby mama, and she responded "something more specific."  So maybe?  She did say she doesn't want Oliver immediately to love this 8-year-old stranger (although I think it'd be totally in-character, Oliver's REALLY into family).

 

I like this theory.  It seems plausible and it's SO MUCH BETTER than pregnancy/miscarriage. (I don't like the storyline, but like the theory that that's what Laura Hurley was referring to.)

Did Laura Hurley say it was bad or that she would change it?

Not that the show framed it as bad, but that she, Laura Hurley doesn't like it.  If she liked it she wouldn't want to change it, and she's pretty pro-Olicity.  

 

I'm on board with looptab's theory.  Because LH has said in the past she doesn't want Oliver immediately to fall for the kid, so if he does, that would qualify as something more specific than just baby mama crap, that LH would want to change.  And then I can back away from the miscarriage cliff of misery.

Edited December 1, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

Thought she answered "something more specific"? So I thought it could be Oliver's specific reaction that might have bothered. Anyway just an option, haha. TBH her comment could be about anything, so I'm not freaking out until there's something to freak out about.

Could be. She herself wasn't that specific about what exactly she was talking about.

[looptab]

Did Laura Hurley say it was bad or that she would change it?

 

If Felicity is pregnant, I could see her wanting to change that storyline. However, I don't think the show would frame it as bad for Olicity. I think the show would call it positive and it would prompt the proposal. They wouldn't hurt her in the crossover and 4x09, so I don't think there will be any kind of miscarriage in the crossover.

 

I think she said she would change it. I don't think anyone is suggesting there could be a miscarriage in the crossover? Just a possible pregnancy that would end badly due to what we know about 409.

[apinknightmare]

So, the prodicer's preview: WTF is DD doing at ARGUS?

And that last bit with Thea, "Did I know we knew The Flash?" So cute.

[dtissagirl]

Poor Thea, nobody tells her anything ever.

[catrox14]

Just spit balling here. I know Susanna Thompson has said she won't come back but maybe...just maybe we get another flashback to Moira and Oliver discussing the baby from s2? Like maybe the heartbreak comes from us seeing more about how Oliver felt back then about having a child? Maybe some cuts scenes are added back in?  Or maybe we actually get a surprise appearance from Moira as a vision to Oliver. Maybe even a dream that features Moira, to help Oliver here. I know that would break my Moira loving heart into tiny little pieces.

[Chaser]

I think she said she would change it. I don't think anyone is suggesting there could be a miscarriage in the crossover? Just a possible pregnancy that would end badly due to what we know about 409.

I thought some people were tying it to the 'heartbreaking' tweet from another screener.

 

Personally, if anyone is actually thinking Felicity could be in the grave this should help put them at ease. They wouldn't put Felicity through all this and the grave.

 

Had another thought. I love that Laurel isn't in The Flash portion of the crossover, but I find it weird. She got a fairly positive reception when she was on the show last year, she is on the Team and she is The Black Canary. But she is missing from one half of the crossover and involved in no major or sub plot point. She seems to basically be an extra body in the action scenes. Maybe they are testing a Team Arrow that only consists of Oliver, Felicity, Diggle and Thea on The Flash.

[looptab]

Thea <3 <3 <3

[SmallScreenDiva]

Giggling at Felicity sliding her chair over in increments toward Oliver who's angry at Barry for bringing danger to Star City. 

 

And Thea's reaction to the Flash is adorable. Guys, tell Thea stuff (but not Laurel). 

[way2interested]

So, the prodicer's preview: WTF is DD doing at ARGUS?

And that last bit with Thea, "Did I know we knew The Flash?" So cute.

 

I'm guessing that after Kendra's in trouble from the first attack from Savage, Barry suggests that he has a friend who can help. Cut to Team Arrow about to take down DD and the ghosts, Barry comes in to help, and we get DD's reaction to the Flash, which is supposed to be hilarious, along with Thea's comment. I'm not expecting any explanation or set-up for the ARGUS thing, since this is the Flash episode, but nice set-up for Team Arrow for the episode, kind of like Oliver's appearance last year. And good for Neal picking up an extra "Special Appearance by" credit on the Flash.

[statsgirl]

I'm still confused as to what is where because they said that the Flash portion will be in Star City and the Arrow portion in Central City.  Is Central City the farm, because I know Laurel is at the farm.

 

Thea's "Did I know we knew The Flash?... I didn't know we knew the Flash" shows why Speedy works much better on the team than the Black Canary,.  She can be a junior partner on the team (and cute and funny) while BC can't because of her comics heritage.

[Sakura12]

Seeing Laurel once a week is enough. 

 

Thea's adorable with her "Did I know, we knew the Flash? I guess we know the Flash"

[AyChihuahua]

Thea <3 <3 <3

Thea is tied with the healthy O/F relationship for my favorite things about S4 so far.  Willa Holland is kicking so much ass.

[apinknightmare]

I thought some people were tying it to the 'heartbreaking' tweet from another screener.

I did that. Just speculating that IF the "heartbreaking" was related to some possible baby storyline, it seems like that would mean it'd be handled in these crossover eps.

Had another thought. I love that Laurel isn't in The Flash portion of the crossover, but I find it weird. She got a fairly positive reception when she was on the show last year, she is on the Team and she is The Black Canary. But she is missing from one half of the crossover and involved in no major or sub plot point. She seems to basically be an extra body in the action scenes. Maybe they are testing a Team Arrow that only consists of Oliver, Felicity, Diggle and Thea on The Flash

I think it's likely that The Flash half was just too packed with people/plot so they cut out the ones who didn't have anything to do.

I'm still confused as to what is where because they said that the Flash portion will be in Star City and the Arrow portion in Central City. Is Central City the farm, because I know Laurel is at the farm.

The farm is Central City-adjacent, and part of the Arrow ep.

[Chaser]

Thea is killing with the cute right now.

 

I really like really really need a Thea and Felicity Team-up episode. They need a straight up bonding episode. Something needs to happen and Thea and Felicity need to save the day and their needs to be high-jinks and they need to try and out cute each other when explaining to Oliver what happened.

[kismet]

Thea really is killing it this year... She's the perfect blend of cute, funny, sarcastic and even mildly tragic with the whole bloodlust. I feel like she adds to every scene she is in. Very rarely do I want her out of story. What a complete turn-around from s1&2 when she would grate on me with her juvenile behavior. 

 

I feel like the crossover has everyone in it that I want in it. I wish perhaps we saw more Iris and less Cisco, but that is not possible since Iris doesn’t fill a role easily for taking down immortals. Perhaps they could have brought her into to do more research or something. But I can live with her not being in it. Cisco flirting with Hawkgirl though is just ew. I’m sorry, but Cisco is just not attractive and he & Hawkgirl have absolutely no chemistry. It’s like watch an awkward game of school-age spin the bottle.

[looptab]

Thea is tied with the healthy O/F relationship for my favorite things about S4 so far.  Willa Holland is kicking so much ass.

Same. :)

 

Felicity in the clip is like "Stop embarrassing me, Oliver", haha. OK, never thought I'd say it, but I can't wait for this crossover. 

Edited December 1, 2015 by looptab

[tv echo]

From the TVLine article (in the Spoilers thread):

 

The crossover will also uncork “probably the biggest emotional story we’ve ever done on Arrow,” Berlanti teases. (Whether it has to do with the latest reappearance by Oliver’s soon-to-be-named ex-girlfriend, played by Defiance‘s Anna Hopkins, Berlanti was mum, saying only that there is a moment “very akin” to last year’s crossover, where Oliver bumped into his old flame at Jitters, still unaware that she gave birth to and has been raising his child since their forced years-ago split.)

IIRC, Baby Mama was never an ex-girlfriend - she was just one of many women that Oliver cheated with when he was dating Laurel. 

 

Also, "forced years-ago split" makes them sound like star-crossed lovers.  IIRC, it was Baby Mama's decision to take the money offered by Moira.

Edited December 1, 2015 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

Yeah but ex-girlfriend sounds better than "one night stand he cheated on Laurel with".  They have to play nice.

At least Oliver knew what her name was -- I hope.

 

I like Cisco in small doses but it feels like he's become Kreisburg's geek alter ego this season.  He's everywhere, doing everything.  Too much for me.

Edited December 1, 2015 by statsgirl

[kismet]

9 Things to Expect in the Epic 'Arrow' and 'The Flash' Crossover Event

Posted December 1, 2015 by Travis Reilly

http://www.moviefone.com/2015/12/01/arrow-and-the-flash-crossover-preview/

 

8. Oliver will be asked to keep a secret from Felicity, and will eventually find comfort in the arms of another.

Green Arrow has been all about honesty and transparency this season, so when an unexpected character asks him to keep a secret from everyone, including his lady love Felicity, his resolve is put to the test. What does he do? We're not going to ruin that surprise for you, but we will say that he's lucky to be surrounded by so many supportive friends and family. One of them even gives him the most awkward hug ever during the episode, which made us laugh out loud.

 

This hug has LL all over it. As to why she would be supportive... reasons. Also bet that she will say that he should keep it a secret which is why he decides to tell FS.

[AyChihuahua]

Great, so Oliver is keeping some secret from Felicity.  Hopefully it's something that doesn't have anything specifically to do with her.

 

This hug has LL all over it. As to why she would be supportive... reasons. Also bet that she will say that he should keep it a secret which is why he decides to tell FS.

I don't think that would make anyone LOL.  My guess is more intentionally hilarious, so probably Cisco, or maybe Barry.  If it's about the kid and both Cisco and Barry know, that'd make even more sense.  

 

Also, if it is about his kid and he keeps it secret from Felicity, we know there's a timebomb down the road, because she'd, I think, be [justifiably] furious he doesn't tell her.

Edited December 1, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

I think maybe he winds up not keeping the secret. And I think Barry is probably the awkward hug?

[dtissagirl]

That sounds more like Cisco or Barry gives Oliver a hug, rather than Laurel.

[looptab]

Nah, I think the hug will be Cisco.

Also,  I wish journalists would just paraphrase what Kreisberg says instead of reporting the quote, because good God, the struggle is real.

[wonderwall]

8. Oliver will be asked to keep a secret from Felicity, and will eventually find comfort in the arms of another.

Green Arrow has been all about honesty and transparency this season, so when an unexpected character asks him to keep a secret from everyone, including his lady love Felicity, his resolve is put to the test. What does he do? We're not going to ruin that surprise for you, but we will say that he's lucky to be surrounded by so many supportive friends and family. One of them even gives him the most awkward hug ever during the episode, which made us laugh out loud.

 

I feel like they ruined the surprise for us. He's totally going to tell her lol

Edited December 1, 2015 by wonderwall

[way2interested]

Barry and Oliver still need to spoon at some point, according to SA and GG, maybe the hug refers to that?

[apinknightmare]

I feel like they ruined the surprise for us. He's totally going to tell her lol

Yeah, haha. Either that or it will get out some other way.

[tv echo]

Also from that Moviefone article:

Can you guess which character learned about the multiverse then immediately wondered whether Oliver's doppelganger might be potbellied and bald?

My guess is Diggle.

Edited December 1, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

I always felt like BA & OQ are on hugging basis. I don't see them as having awkward hugs.

 

I could see Cisco being the awkward hug.

[apinknightmare]

Barry and Oliver still need to spoon at some point, according to SA and GG, maybe the hug refers to that?

I was thinking that too, haha. Like maybe Barry catches him from behind.

[Chaser]

Didn't SA make a joke about the them spooning? Maybe it wasn't a joke?

[apinknightmare]

Also from that Moviefone article:

My guess is Diggle.

Is E2 Wells crossing over? Seems like maybe he could drop the bomb that E2 Oliver is dead. Awkward!

[Starfish35]

Yeah I immediately thought Barry for the hug, but Cisco is a good option too. I don't think they would have talked about it like that if it was Laurel.

[kismet]

It's just a default for me, I see the word awkward and automatically think of LL.

[Chaser]

I love how under the bullet point there is the picture of Barry hugging Felicity. Apparently there is also a lot of Barry and Felicity interaction in this episode and they never pass up an opportunity for Oliver and Barry bonding. I'm going with the awkward hug being Barry. He probably goes to him for advice. My big question is, who is asking him to keep the secret?