Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Genki]

Tech for the ATOM suit, including the QC specs, the dwarf star (or whatever thing that provide the power and shrinkage) and the shrinking tech should belong to PT.

If Ray doesn't keep or stay with the company can he really keep the ATOM suit?

[kismet]

I want Palmer Tech to crash and burn, so that FS (& possibly OQ) can start their own company. I'm tired of FS needing to be beholden to RP.

Knowing this show though - Ray will save the Day! Again.

[GreatAtBoats]

Felicity's been doing a terrible job, when she's bothered to try doing her job at all, so she certainly needs some help. It's already been established that unlike Felicity, Ray knows better than/has the decency not to pay himself a ridiculous amount of money when the company is in trouble, and she's already relying entirely on someone else to save the day by putting the pressure on Curtis, so she should really take some advice wherever she can get it.

[Morrigan2575]

Tech for the ATOM suit, including the QC specs, the dwarf star (or whatever thing that provide the power and shrinkage) and the shrinking tech should belong to PT.

If Ray doesn't keep or stay with the company can he really keep the ATOM suit?

Trying to figure out how they're going to bring him back to life (legally) in the show, especially if he's off having time traveling adventures in LoT. I wonder if Ray is alive but no one knows? Or if he's alive but decides he doesn't want to go back into the business world? Edited November 8, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Tech for the ATOM suit, including the QC specs, the dwarf star (or whatever thing that provide the power and shrinkage) and the shrinking tech should belong to PT.

If Ray doesn't keep or stay with the company can he really keep the ATOM suit?

 

I'm not sure, but from what I could read of the document Ray had Felicity sign, he was flat-out giving her the company, not bequeathing it to her upon his death or whatever. So I don't think the ownership would change? And I'm sure Felicity would let him have the suit. 

 

I wish they had gone into some detail about what was going on with the company. When did it get into trouble? When Ray sploded himself? Because the woman that Felicity fired in the second ep said that when employees heard that Felicity was coming back that they thought things were going to get better, which sounds like she wasn't completely in control over the summer. She mentioned the board wasn't sure she was the right choice to run things (and from the sounds of it the board had been making quite a few decisions without her), but then she mentioned that she closed the Palmer paper mill, so clearly she'd been making some decisions. 

 

Messy, as per usual.

[Cerulean Blue]

Felicity's been doing a terrible job, when she's bothered to try doing her job at all, so she certainly needs some help. It's already been established that unlike Felicity, Ray knows better than/has the decency not to pay himself a ridiculous amount of money when the company is in trouble, and she's already relying entirely on someone else to save the day by putting the pressure on Curtis, so she should really take some advice wherever she can get it.

Has she been doing a terrible job? I don't think we've actually seen much of Felicity Smoak, CEO other than in the first and second episodes where she walked into a company that was apparently already in a lot of trouble (which maybe implies Ray wasn't so great either at running the company, so if she's looking for advice, perhaps she should look elsewhere). She had some ideas for fixing it, but we don't actually know what the current state of the company is right now.

 

Should Felicity not make a large salary as CEO of a multi-billion dollar company? Ray, because he was a billionaire, was in a position that he could theoretically work for a while without paying himself a salary from one of his companies. Chances are good he had a lot of other sources of income--investments, etc. I don't really expect Felicity, who less than two years ago was working at what was basically Best Buy, to be so self-sacrificing that she is doing what is a very stressful and very high-stakes job for free.

 

Putting "pressure" on Curtis makes sense to me, since he's apparently one of her best and brightest employees. CEOs have to delegate, which is what Felicity's doing. She's not asking Curtis to act as CEO, she's asking him to do his job (which she hired him back to do) and develop something amazing for the company that will help them.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Cerulean Blue

[dtissagirl]

I've wondering about that too. Because when Oliver said "we have money now" in 402, he also mentioned Felicity inherited a "multi-billion dollar conglomerate". What happens then when Tiny Dick comes back full size? Does Felicity give everything but Palmer Tech back to Palmer? Cause PT wasn't inherited, it was transferred to Felicity.

 

Not that I think the writers 1. care for, or 2. remember this kind of detail.

[BunsenBurner]

I hope they don't bring him back to life. That way Feicity keeps the company. When he finds out that LOT wants him he can tell her where he put all the info on nano technology etc. she already knows of many of his breakthroughs. Who knows what happened to this stuff after the explosion. He really doesn't need anything else but his suit if he's going to be moving to a new location.

[Mrs. de Winter]

 It's already been established that unlike Felicity, Ray knows better than/has the decency not to pay himself a ridiculous amount of money when the company is in trouble, and she's already relying entirely on someone else to save the day by putting the pressure on Curtis, so she should really take some advice wherever she can get it.

 

 

Ray was just using tech and resources that were developed and acquired with company money for personal use (his suit) - up to and including purchasing an entire company to be sure Felicity was working for him. Felicity is using money the board knows it is paying her - so at least she is doing it above board unlike Ray who apparently is fine with misappropriating funds. 

 

And Ray relied on others to make the company successful as well - including Felicity.  

 

On another note - are Felicity and Oliver at the loft when they hear from Ray in the preview?  Someone pointed out that the toy duck that Baby Sara has might be on the table.  Maybe they are watching Sara because Diggle is already doing his undercover thing?  Didn't WM mentioned Diggle doing things that Oliver is not aware?  It makes me wonder if he makes a move to go undercover to get info on HIVE before or after they find out about Ray. 

[apinknightmare]

Should Felicity not make a large salary as CEO of a multi-billion dollar company? Ray, because he was a billionaire, was in a position that he could theoretically work for a while without paying himself a salary from one of his companies. Chances are good he had a lot of other sources of income--investments, etc. I don't really expect Felicity, who less than two years ago was working at what was basically Best Buy, to be so self-sacrificing that she is doing what is a very stressful and very high-stakes job for free.

 

They should make the financial situation more clear, because just owning PT and its real estate portfolio would be a boon to her bank account. Felicity would probably not need to pay herself a salary, either. I'm assuming she's paying for Arrow stuff out of money she's personally made off of the inheritance, although why they had her get PT to fund Oliver's mayoral campaign, I'll never understand.

[kismet]

RP bought QC to make his suit. I don't know if he really cared about making the company sound. The only thing he seemed to care about was his suit. Its probably why he signed the company over to FS because she cared about the company. RP like OQ in many ways only saw QC as a means to an end.

[EmilyBettFan]

RP bought QC to make his suit. I don't know if he really cared about making the company sound. The only thing he seemed to care about was his suit. Its probably why he signed the company over to FS because she cared about the company. RP like OQ in many ways only saw QC as a means to an end.

This so much I agree with.

[statsgirl]

If Ray made Felicity the CEO of Palmer Tech Starling City, then she "inherited" it in the sense that she received it from an other person, not that the other person is gone.  Like I inherited my father's old car when he got a new one.

Ray was just using tech and resources that were developed and acquired with company money for personal use (his suit) - up to and including purchasing an entire company to be sure Felicity was working for him. Felicity is using money the board knows it is paying her - so at least she is doing it above board unlike Ray who apparently is fine with misappropriating funds. 

It's a good thing that Ray doesn't have to report to Board oversight about buying Tech Village just because he wanted Felicity working for him.

 

Since Ray was already wealthy, he could afford to make the flashy gesture of not taking any salary.  He also took weeks off at a time to work on his suit leaving the company to what appeared to be Felicity's capable hands.

Edited November 8, 2015 by statsgirl

[Morrigan2575]

I don't know why people are saying it's flashy gesture to not take a salary. Most CEOs and Executives get paid shit and take stock instead. If they're paid a salary they get taxed at 40% (roughly). Stocks goes by long/short term capital gains (which is why Mitt Romney paid less than 12% in income tax).

Edited November 8, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[NumberCruncher]

RP bought QC to make his suit. I don't know if he really cared about making the company sound. The only thing he seemed to care about was his suit. Its probably why he signed the company over to FS because she cared about the company. RP like OQ in many ways only saw QC as a means to an end.

Yup. It was pretty clear last season that RP was just using QC as a means to an end to get the technology he needed for his suit and that extended to Felicity as well. He basically hounded her until she relented because he wanted her skills to help getting him to the ATOM suit faster. If anyone was abusing QC/PT, it was Ray Palmer. Contrast that with Oliver and Felicity, whose primary reason to save QC/PT was to preserve what's left of Oliver's family legacy. She was excited by the prospect of giving it back to Oliver during their discussion in bed together in Ivy Town. The fact that Felicity is now using her salary to help fund Team Arrow's activities has always been secondary--especially since she only started doing it once Oliver made the decision to continue being the Arrow a month ago.

[statsgirl]

I don't know why people are saying it's flashy gesture to not take a salary. Most CEOs and Executives get paid shit and take stock instead.

 

That's why it's flashy.  It's small compared to the stock amounts but it impresses people who don't know that like the poster who said:

 

It's already been established that unlike Felicity, Ray knows better than/has the decency not to pay himself a ridiculous amount of money when the company is in trouble

It's also something that Felicity can't do especially if the stocks are paying decent dividends.  Ray has huge other resources but Felicity needs her salary to live on,  (And support Oliver who doesn't have a paying job right now.)

[bijoux]

This crossover is either going to be eleventy hours long or all the scenes will be 40 seconds tops. There are like 64 masks around and now Malcolm is there too? Come on!

[Velocity23]

[looptab]

That's a nice quote. I think it applies to both Oliver and Felicity.

[Morrigan2575]

This crossover is either going to be eleventy hours long or all the scenes will be 40 seconds tops. There are like 64 masks around and now Malcolm is there too? Come on!

I predict massively rushed storytelling, like way faster than 301 and 401 and lots of scenes with just 20 people in masks standing around getting 1-2 lines each.

[kismet]

Its gonna be like that Oprah show only "You get a line!", "You get a line!", "You get a line!". And just like that audience, we'll be stuck paying the high taxes only this time it will be pretzeled characters for plot purposes with just enough damage to the characters to linger on past the xover.

[bijoux]

Bring it.

  

I predict massively rushed storytelling, like way faster than 301 and 401 and lots of scenes with just 20 people in masks standing around getting 1-2 lines each.

That's what I'm expecting as well. Yay. :/

[writersblock51]

I predict massively rushed storytelling, like way faster than 301 and 401 and lots of scenes with just 20 people in masks standing around getting 1-2 lines each.

 

 

Its gonna be like that Oprah show only "You get a line!", "You get a line!", "You get a line!". And just like that audience, we'll be stuck paying the high taxes only this time it will be pretzeled characters for plot purposes with just enough damage to the characters to linger on past the xover.

 

This is, IMO, what comes of the infatuation, bordering on obsession, with having the shows (Arrow, Flash) loaded with suits and characters from the comics.  I feel that Arrow had more balance in S1 then once Flash was going to happen in Arrow's 2nd season, there was an amped up push for suits everywhere.  There's been a problem with too many character, too many arcs and not enough time to do all of them justice for some time now. 

 

I don't think the build up to LoT is doing Arrow any favors, either.  Diggle is getting hints of bigger stuff to come, I'm assuming in the 2nd half?  And who knows if we'll ever actually meet Felicity's father.  And, if we do, will it be her story or someone else's? 

 

While I appreciate that the supporting characters (all but Oliver) are there to support him and help with HIS journey, I'm finding it hard to understand how any of the stuff with Sara and now Ray directly affect Oliver.  So far, this has been more about Lance's redemption and Laurel's quest (I honestly don't even know what to call what's happening to her without sounding extremely negative).

 

And it seems that, so far, the weight of the LoT is on Arrow's shoulders with very little affecting Flash.  Will that be changing?

Edited November 9, 2015 by writersblock51

[Morrigan2575]

I don't think the build up to LoT is doing Arrow any favors, either. Diggle is getting hints of bigger stuff to come, I'm assuming in the 2nd half? And who knows if we'll ever actually meet Felicity's father. And, if we do, will it be her story or someone else's?

EBR stated in an interview not too long ago that Felicity's father is coming this season. WM has also been talking more about that in a few interviews so I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up in 12-13 (something they're currently working on and will be filmed before Christmas break)

[Balaclava]

RP bought QC to make his suit. I don't know if he really cared about making the company sound. The only thing he seemed to care about was his suit. Its probably why he signed the company over to FS because she cared about the company. RP like OQ in many ways only saw QC as a means to an end.

 

Ray bought QC because he wanted the OMAC blueprints, which Felicity got for him or else.....He used QC money to acquire that mine where he thought he could find a dawrf star. Was that stalker move with the necklace and dress also on QC money? 

100% agree with you, he only cared about the ATOM suit, the one Felicity more than helped him get, or else....

Yet Felicity is doing a terrible job with a company that was probably already in trouble at the hands of Ray......sure Jen! 

[Velocity23]

Didnt EBR hint at SDCC in a interview that she saw something about Felicitys father on the writers board in the 2nd part of the season.

[Sakura12]

And it seems that, so far, the weight of the LoT is on Arrow's shoulders with very little affecting Flash.  Will that be changing?

 

Flash didn't kill off any of their characters, they don't have waste time finding/resurrecting them. They can just show up. 

 

However I do think Flash is introducing way too many other speedsters. It takes away Barry's importance even though they keep saying he's the bestest ever. Oliver doesn't get to be the bestest ever because they needed to make Laurel happen. Black Canary isn't supposed to be a side kick. But on Arrow no matter how they want to spin it, she is. 1 year doesn't equal 7 years in any universe. 

[Genki]

Didnt EBR hint at SDCC in a interview that she saw something about Felicitys father on the writers board in the 2nd part of the season.

I thought she was looking for it on the writers board which was only half a season, at that stage, but couldn't see anything so was thinking it might be in 2nd half of the season.

Edited to add: Maybe that's how they introduce the concept of Felicity's dad....injured in 1sf half season she need family member for *insert medical condition here* Donna's not a match need to find Papa Smoak.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Genki

[Morrigan2575]

Didnt EBR hint at SDCC in a interview that she saw something about Felicitys father on the writers board in the 2nd part of the season.

I don't know about that. I know the early interviews she mentioned that she didn't know if he was going to show up in S4 but, if he did it would be very late in the season.

It was tweeted out the last time media went up for interviews (I think they were filming 409) that EBR said Felicity's father would show up in S4, and he's probably a villain and rich.

In a separate interview WM confirmed the Villain/Rich information and, most recently WM shot down DD as Felicity's father.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Balaclava]

This is, IMO, what comes of the infatuation, bordering on obsession, with having the shows (Arrow, Flash) loaded with suits and characters from the comics.  I feel that Arrow had more balance in S1 then once Flash was going to happen in Arrow's 2nd season, there was an amped up push for suits everywhere.  There's been a problem with too many character, too many arcs and not enough time to do all of them justice for some time now. 

 

SA said he filmed a scene where at a certain point there was 9 people with suits/mask/superpowers in it, brace yourself for that special Halloween party ;) 

 

I don't think the build up to LoT is doing Arrow any favors, either.  Diggle is getting hints of bigger stuff to come, I'm assuming in the 2nd half?  And who knows if we'll ever actually meet Felicity's father.  And, if we do, will it be her story or someone else's? 

 

I believe we'll meet Felicity father, in 4B not sooner, i just hope the eps do justice to that SL and her father is not a villain of the week, i actually think they will do right by her. I'm also expecting the #YearOfDiggle to be more obvious (so far we didn't get much) in 4B

 

While I appreciate that the supporting characters (all but Oliver) are there to support him and help with HIS journey, I'm finding it hard to understand how any of the stuff with Sara and now Ray directly affect Oliver.  So far, this has been more about Lance's redemption and Laurel's quest (I honestly don't even know what to call what's happening to her without sounding extremely negative).

 

It's doesn't, don't believe any of it, Sara, Ray etc add zero to Oliver's SL, they're there because a new show is coming and as always Arrow and is cast are the ones to suffer at the hands of the spin-off gods 

 

And it seems that, so far, the weight of the LoT is on Arrow's shoulders with very little affecting Flash.  Will that be changing?

 

Captain Cold, Hawkgirl, Firestorm where in some eps, none of them messed with the main SL so far 

[Chaser]

We may not see Felicity's dad until later in the season, but I think we are going to get hints sooner.

 

I'm hoping he is connected to HIVE and whatever happens to Felicity in the mid-season finale brings him out of the woodwork.

[writersblock51]

Here's the thing about Felicity and her father - it's teased, we're told that he's coming, and, obviously, all of that with few details. In fact, they laid a few little bits last season to help set him up. 

 

But - and I use this carefully because we're still fairly into this season - I've been a fan of this show and been fooled a few times on promises and teasers.  The show does NOT have a good track record, with me, at least, for coming through.

 

- Sebastian Blood - underwhelming, IMO, after quite a strong, weekly build up

- Isabel turns into Ravanger, I guess - also extremely hyped up and under utilized

- Waller - where is she?  I know she's been pulled because of the movie, so shame on DC for having her in 2 of the seasons and now she's nowhere to be seen

- Vertigo Pt 2 - that was over pretty quickly, which is a shame because he's the main Green Arrow villain in the comics - another under utilized

- Bronze Tiger died off screen - really?

- Wild Cat - where'd he go?  and why wasn't he actually a better fighter?  (I know the actor moved on - but shouldn't the show have secured him as they intended?)

 

Wild Cat's early departure basically left Laurel without a local trainer.  Yet she's now, after a year, supposed to be more than just a sidekick?  It just doesn't fit - so we never saw the actual development of her skills either.  What happened to her training with Nyssa?

 

This show relies on viewers to stick around as long as there is stuff happening - or coming soon! - to the main characters.  Even if things tend to fizzle out, they expect us to keep watching. 

 

I'm tired of having things dangled by a show that has a crediblity and commitment problem.

 

And I realize this post may need to go to the Bitterness Thread, sorry!

[Sakura12]

What happened to her training with Nyssa?

 

I'm pretty sure Nyssa wants nothing to do with her after she turned her beloved into a monster and now she's imprisoned by her beloved's killer. 

 

I wonder if they'll even tell Sara what happened to Nyssa. KL not being available will probably make it where no one tells her, otherwise Sara would be on the next plane to break her out. 

[kismet]

I'm pretty sure Nyssa wants nothing to do with her after she turned her beloved into a monster and now she's imprisoned by her beloved's killer.

I wonder if they'll even tell Sara what happened to Nyssa. KL not being available will probably make it where no one tells her, otherwise Sara would be on the next plane to break her out.

Well we know LL probably won't say anything because she doesn't want to deal with Nyssa's judgment either. And clearly according to LL's "sound" mind, Nyssa didn't love SL enough.

[AyChihuahua]

In response to someone asking about LL storyline for 4.06, Speed Weed said the love definition he posted earlier also applies to her, in a sisterly way.  

 

So once again her sister is her only storyline.  (I also found it slightly amusing that he specified sisterly...to avoid any shipping confusion?)

Edited November 10, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Chaser]

Laurels storyline is going to be Sara until Legends and then it's going to be Lance.

[Sakura12]

I still hate that Sara's who couldnt take the killing anymore is now going to have a need to kill because of Laurel. But they are going to have this great relationship now.

[AyChihuahua]

Laurels storyline is going to be Sara until Legends and then it's going to be Lance.

Yep, when he's croakified.  Gonna be soooooooooo boring and repetitive.

[Primal Slayer]

I still hate that Sara's who couldnt take the killing anymore is now going to have a need to kill because of Laurel. But they are going to have this great relationship now.

It's not as if Sara quit after she went back on the boat with Nyssa in S2.

[Sakura12]

She went back because that was the deal she made to get the leagues help to save the city.

[wingster55]

What exactly is Oliver's story? Beat the villain for the fourth year in a row?

Last year they tried to say identity but that was shittily done, and they never had him make a decision to do both.

[apinknightmare]

Seems like he made the decision to do both in the premiere. 

 

And his story is running for mayor, and probably something to do with his kid once he comes into the picture, since the ep summary suggests that'll happen in 3x07. 

Edited November 10, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Primal Slayer]

She went back because that was the deal she made to get the leagues help to save the city.

Yeah because Nyssa gave her an ultimatum, girlfriend of the year. 

[wingster55]

He did so with 0 internal struggle...the choice he struggled with in s3 was no big deal in s; apparently.

There is the mayor arc..but I suspect that won't be focused on much because its not action based.

Edited November 10, 2015 by wingster55

[apinknightmare]

He did struggle with it, that struggle just didn't last for very long, like most things on this show. 

[wingster55]

In s3 he never made the choice. In s4....where's the struggle? I must have blinked and missed it.

[apinknightmare]

He did make a choice in S3 - he chose to just be Oliver, since he couldn't be the Arrow.

 

Did you not watch any of the part where he didn't want to come back to Star City? Where he said he didn't know how to put on the mask and not go into the darkness or whatever? That was the struggle.

Edited November 10, 2015 by apinknightmare

[wingster55]

So the choice was made for him.

And that's not really a struggle. He had a few lines...and then he just jumped back in.

[AyChihuahua]

The tennis match cracks me up.  

[apinknightmare]

So the choice was made for him.

And that's not really a struggle. He had a few lines...and then he just jumped back in.

 

Okay.