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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I'd love for MM to flippantly remark that so and so had died for Thea, like, no big deal. Did you guys not know that part? Dramatic shrug.

 

Ra's died pretty shortly after he manipulated events to let Oliver use the Pit for Thea. Maybe the entire LoA believes the Pit brings Bad Juju. It's right up there with the "surviving the sword" prophecy. I just hope Malcolm is less of a simpleton than Ra's.

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Maybe it's not a life for a life, but a soul for a soul. Sara comes out of the LP without a soul.  The only way for her ever to have a chance of regaining her humanity is for someone else to sacrifice their soul, which would be transferred to Sara.  Even then, she still needs Constantine to bring her all the way back.

Oliver would still do it, though. 

 

Plus, I really want the Pit just to dry up.  Super easy solution, and finally Malcolm wouldn't get every single thing he wants.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

I think somebody here or in the comics thread stated that the pits dry up when they are used to resurrect the dead. Taking this angle would be a good idea for the show. It doesn't add another layer of dramatic angst, it simply takes away the dipping back to life option. No pit, no resurrection.

That's the way it is in the comics, there's also multiple pits in the comics. The show doesn't seem to have gone in that direction since MM said in 320 that he'd heard stories of the Pit being used to bring people back to life.

It seems like the show is going with different consequences for using the pit to restore life.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)
Am I missing something something though? I'm not sure I'm getting any annoyance from Digg at all in that clip. In fact, he seemed rather contrite and tells Felicity's she's right and it won't happen again. 

It's the way he says "Sorry I couldn't help you"  where the subtext is 'eff you',  the "It's a one time deal Felicity, it won't happen again" where it seems like a total lie in the "I'll never break another curfew" kind of way, and the way Diggle crosses his arms when Felicity says they're going to work things out in a "no way is that happening" kind of way..

 

It's a short clip but I get the feeling the boys have been behaving like that for some time given Felicity's lecture and Loud Voice.

Edited by statsgirl
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Even if it's really bad juju to bring back fully dead people, it'd still be out there for mortal injuries, aka Thea.  I want it GONE.  It's been screwed up from the beginning when RAG was soaking his dirty greasy old man butt in it, and now it's a get-out-of-jail-free card hanging out there.  And I want Malcolm to have one bad frigging day.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Science question: if the Pit stops working its magic, does the U-Haul of LP water DD stole also stop working?

Your ignorance of the biological and mystical underpinnings of the Lazarus Pit is...frankly, embarrassing.  You should be embarrassed that you don't already know that.  In fact, I am so embarrassed for you that I'm not even going to bother explaining it.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Science question: if the Pit stops working its magic, does the U-Haul of LP water DD stole also stop working?

Not if there are multiple pits.

 

And if the water dries up when a person is revived from the dead, there would have to be multiple pits otherwise how would they know what happens when they put in a dead person?

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

This reminds me of the whole thing about the transitive property of picking up re Mjolnir.  Like the Hulk can't pick up Mjolnir, but can pick up Thor while Thor is holding Mjolnir, so by the transitive property of "picking up" the Hulk has thereby picked up Mjolnir.

 

So yeah, /pit science is cracking me up.

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bijoux

bijoux

Sneak peak with Oliver, Feliciy and Diggle! Use your loud voice Felicity!

http://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-season-4-video-felicity-oliver-diggle/

  

Gimme. Gimme more. Oh my, Felicity puts them in a time out! Awesome. These tthree are the ones who need to go to a spa and bond. Or take baby Sara to the arcades where Dig and Oliver can tossle in the ball pit (not an innuendo!) and work throuh this like guys. Meanwhile, Lyle is teaching Felicity how to shoot after thrashing whatever kids were playing the game before them.

LOVE Felicity.

 

Do you think that's how Double Down finds Felicity and Curtis?  He tracks his card to Palmer Tech?

 

(Diggle was so (non-verbally) mouthy to Felicity, I'm surprised she hasn't smacked him before this.)

You have to be completely right about Double Down tracking them down. That way him expecting one of Felicity and Curtis to give him Green Arrow makes sense. Has he been on The Flash since they mention he's missing from Central City?

 

I'm guessing the sneak peek of Felicity is good? That's all I need to know.

 

Damn, I deserve a medal for my restraint in not watching these sneak peeks. Haha.

It's goooood. Awesome. Da bomb.

 

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Guest

Guest

I'm still undecided about Nyssa's fate. If she survives this episode, there's still a possibility she won't make it in the next seeing as something terrible must happen for Oliver to call in Constantine. But again, still not sure how Laurel comes away with a positive move forward if she's responsible for Nyssa's death. That's why I'm in camp 'Nyssa's fine' for now. I'll see how I feel by the end of the episode! 

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

It's the way he says "Sorry I couldn't help you"  where the subtext is 'eff you',  the "It's a one time deal Felicity, it won't happen again" where it seems like a total lie in the "I'll never break another curfew" kind of way, and the way Diggle crosses his arms when Felicity says they're going to work things out in a "no way is that happening" kind of way..

 

It's a short clip but I get the feeling the boys have been behaving like that for some time given Felicity's lecture and Loud Voice.

 

Hmmm, OK, watched that clip again but I still don't see it. But then again, I thought Diggle and Oliver actually had a good moment last episode after Thea's cray-cray became apparent. 

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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

Plus, I really want the Pit just to dry up.  Super easy solution, and finally Malcolm wouldn't get every single thing he wants.

 

If the Pit just dries up, I guess I can see how that could be "organic and earned" 'cause the Pit used up its final mystical powers of restoration on aliving again a more-than-a-year dead mummified Sara. But how is Pit waters evaporating "elegant," like Guggs and Mericle said? Is there going to be a smoke and light show with clang-y music as the water turns to gas?

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Guest

Guest

I haven't seen the clip so I can't judge whether or not Diggle had an attitude with Felicity but he has been off with her in the previous episodes. Don't know if that's intentional or not.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I'm still undecided about Nyssa's fate. If she survives this episode, there's still a possibility she won't make it in the next seeing as something terrible must happen for Oliver to call in Constantine. But again, still not sure how Laurel comes away with a positive move forward if she's responsible for Nyssa's death. That's why I'm in camp 'Nyssa's fine' for now. I'll see how I feel by the end of the episode! 

I just don't see the writers caring.  They do the weirdest stuff with Laurel and are shocked, shocked when people call it weird.  I can totally see them having no clue that Nyssa dying bc of Laurel bringing back Sara is even something the audience would have an issue with.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

If the Pit just dries up, I guess I can see how that could be "organic and earned" 'cause the Pit used up its final mystical powers of restoration on aliving again a more-than-a-year dead mummified Sara. But how is Pit waters evaporating "elegant," like Guggs and Mericle said? Is there going to be a smoke and light show with clang-y music as the water turns to gas?

Maybe the waters can jump out of the Pit all feral and snarl at someone.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I just don't see the writers caring. They do the weirdest stuff with Laurel and are shocked, shocked when people call it weird. I can totally see them having no clue that Nyssa dying bc of Laurel bringing back Sara is even something the audience would have an issue with.

Yeah, MG had no idea there would be blowback about Laurel dressing up like Sara and using a modulator to fool him. Pretty awesome thing to do when Sara's alive and well and indisposed. When she's dead and said impersonator has been lying about it? Not so much.

I don't think they'd put much thought into it, since technically Sara would be the one who killed her (or who she died for).

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Yeah, MG had no idea there would be blowback about Laurel dressing up like Sara and using a modulator to fool him. Pretty awesome thing to do when Sara's alive and well and indisposed. When she's dead and said impersonator has been lying about it? Not so much.

I don't think they'd put much thought into it, since technically Sara would be the one who killed her (or who she died for).

The best part is how he was talking pre episode about the really cool Voice Modulator they had for LL and that everyone was going to love it.
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

The best part is how he was talking pre episode about the really cool Voice Modulator they had for LL and that everyone was going to love it.

I would have loved it if Sara hadn't been dead. Shame they didn't do that to fool him about her being away on some League errand (with her consent).

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Guest

Guest

I just don't see the writers caring.  They do the weirdest stuff with Laurel and are shocked, shocked when people call it weird.  I can totally see them having no clue that Nyssa dying bc of Laurel bringing back Sara is even something the audience would have an issue with.

 

 

Yeah, MG had no idea there would be blowback about Laurel dressing up like Sara and using a modulator to fool him. Pretty awesome thing to do when Sara's alive and well and indisposed. When she's dead and said impersonator has been lying about it? Not so much.

I don't think they'd put much thought into it, since technically Sara would be the one who killed her (or who she died for).

 

Guys, this is not helping my 'Nyssa's fine' argument/peace of mind. 

 

You're both right though. The writers have a bit of mental block when it comes to some things. Ugh.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Sara being away or kidnapped would have prevented so many of the problems they're now writing circles to try to fix.

 

Does the "organic and earned" apply to the Pit, or to whoever is in the grave?  I thought it was the latter.  The LP stuff is just why they won't be able to revive Tommy and Moira.

 

If no one on the writing staff has told them that there may be blow-back to having one partner in a much loved LGBT relationship kill the other partner, they need better advisers.  When I think how much the Lost Girl writers have pushed the Bo/Lauren relationship, I wish a bit of that would happen here.  (Not much though because I don't like Lauren and the Bo/Lauren relationship was a big factor in why I dropped the show.)

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

"Organic and earned" are great words for us or critics to use on this site and other sites...But when the writers or TPTB say it, I consider it a red flag. Frankly, it prepares me to expect that they have no idea what the impact of the characters, lines & stories they wrote. I throw up 2 flags, if the words come from MG. It's right there with gamechanger & epic. :)

Edited by kismet
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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

There was one thing in the Variety article I found interesting.

Nyssa (Katrina Law) obviously wasn’t on board with Malcolm replacing her father – what’s their dynamic like this season? Is she openly trying to undermine him, or biding her time?

Watch – that’s all I can say, because it’s awesome, what’s going to happen, because it’s unexpected. She bowed to Ra’s last season, she’s on her knees in front of him, but shall we say the pancake flips in the pan.

I don't want to give anyone false hope - I'm still bracing myself for her death - but that made me think perhaps Nyssa ends up ousting Malcolm. There was a spoiler about Malcolm being back in the Dark Archer gear - maybe that's because he gets kicked out of the league?

Edited by Starfish35
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bijoux

bijoux

On a scale from one to ten how likely do you think it is Dig gives Oliver some shit about him giving in to Felicity's loud voice?

Didn't hear you saying anything, Johnny. And then at the end of the episode they're all, "Pretty whipped, huh? - Yeah, it's kinda great. - The best."

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kismet

kismet

There was one thing in the Variety article I found interesting.

I don't want to give anyone false hope - I'm still bracing myself for her death - but that made me think perhaps Nyssa ends up ousting Malcolm. There was a spoiler about Malcolm being back in the Dark Archer gear - maybe that's because he gets kicked out of the league?

SO now I have two alternative endings to hope for - 1. Nyssa leaves to find solitude, perhaps comes back ready to kick a lot of ass starting w/ LL and/or 2. She boots MM out of his new role. Either way win-win. The shows get to keep a recurring Nyssa and the audience doesn't have to care about the weekly update from MM's NP.

 

Do you think if Nyssa just quickly cuts MM's finger off and steals the ring that's enough to take power back over? I want MM out of LoA but I don't want him dead just yet (unpopular opinion, I know).

 

FYI - I really really want MM to be caressing the ring and calling it "my precious" sorry the nerd in me can't help but wonder about the importance of the rings. And frankly, I think JB would hit that scene out of the park with his campiness.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

There was one thing in the Variety article I found interesting.

I don't want to give anyone false hope - I'm still bracing myself for her death - but that made me think perhaps Nyssa ends up ousting Malcolm. There was a spoiler about Malcolm being back in the Dark Archer gear - maybe that's because he gets kicked out of the league?

You know what, that may be genius.  They did say he'd be back in the Dark Archer uniform.  

 

BUT, the Dark Archer uniform is actually just the League uniform.  I AM SO CONFUSED.

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Guest

Guest

I don't see anyone dismissing anyone's feelings. I see Felicity wanting her team back together because their bad feelings are putting their lives in danger. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

So not Lyla and Felicity are dismissing Diggle's 100% legit feelings on the matter. How wonderful.

I wonder if it'll ever be addressed that she has semi Oliver blinders on.

Felicity waited to say something until Oliver and Diggle's lives were at stake and when Diggle's anger was compromising their ability to do their job efficiently. 

 

She let Diggle have his feelings. But when his feelings compromised the mission and put Oliver's life in danger (which is also his fault as well) all bets were off. I see nothing wrong with that. 

 

Also she was also angry at Oliver for being stupid and for going out without backup. So IDK what you mean about her having Oliver blinders on....

Edited by wonderwall
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

Btw, not sure I approve of this, frankly, sexist notion that Felicity has 'blinders' on now that she's in a relationship with Oliver. Like she can't possibly do her job or whatever because she loves Oliver. Ew. Please don't go there. That's basically what Ray said in s3. NO.

 

Her dialogue that was in the trailer (which I'm guessing is the same from the clip that I haven't watched) says they BOTH nearly got killed because they didn't have each others backs. From that I think Felicity was mad that BOTH of their lives were in danger. She loves Diggle too. 

Edited by Guest
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wingster55

wingster55

Semi I said...sometimes she lets him slide on things that he shouldn't. And the ossues are all on Oliver. He messed up. Honestly he needs to constantly ask forgiveness.

We saw Diggle have Olivers back in the premiere. I believe him that it is a one time thing.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

Felicity said Diggle almost got himself killed too. Are those Diggle blinders?

 

I doubt that Lyla is dismissing Diggle's feelings. But she wants him to get over it for his own sake (for reasons I discussed in the John Diggle thread).

 

 He messed up. Honestly he needs to constantly ask forgiveness.

This would be very bad for Diggle's mental health.  For his own sake, Diggle needs to come to some sort of working relationship with Oliver or leave the team.  Being angry at Oliver all the time is bad for them both.

Edited by statsgirl
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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

Nyssa ousting Malcolm would be the best.

 

It would be the actual best. So good that I find myself bargaining with the Arrow gods, like, hey! If you keep Nyssa alive and let her depose Malcolm and get some vengeance, I will give LL another chance! I'm also willing to believe this because if she really were in charge of the LoA, then maybe she just hasn't been filming because she's kinda stuck in NP! Plus Sara is effed up and she can't stand to see it! Plus other evidence! Whatever! I'll take anything that keeps her alive.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

It would be the actual best. So good that I find myself bargaining with the Arrow gods, like, hey! If you keep Nyssa alive and let her depose Malcolm and get some vengeance, I will give LL another chance! I'm also willing to believe this because if she really were in charge of the LoA, then maybe she just hasn't been filming because she's kinda stuck in NP! Plus Sara is effed up and she can't stand to see it! Plus other evidence! Whatever! I'll take anything that keeps her alive.

:) I'm hoping for this too. I really hope I haven't gotten people's hopes up only to be dashed.

I won't be able to watch the episode for several more hours, but I'll be eagerly watching the episode thread to see what happens. I need to be prepared for the worst.

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